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Double brokering

Apr 28, 2016 at 05:11 PM CST
I read with great interest, the posting listed as Flatbed w/tarps. I have seen so much howling and crying "foul" about double brokering, I had to laugh when i read this post. Check it out
Replied on Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 09:40 PM CST
Duane, seems to me there is a VERY fine line between cobrokering and double brokering. Can you explain to me the exact or legal difference.

Art Pfluger
Replied on Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 10:22 PM CST
+ 1
i don't know the legal or technical parameters but i am smart enough to know the more hands in the cookie jar the less oreos for me... and i'm not even smart......
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 08:00 AM CST
+ 1
Quote: "Duane, seems to me there is a VERY fine line between cobrokering and double brokering. Can you explain to me the exact or legal difference. Art Pfluger"

Co-Brokering vs. Double Brokering

by Gilles Roch, CTB

G. Roch Consultant Ltd.


For many years, the transportation industry has confounded "double brokering" and "co-brokering" to mean the same. Consequently, both have acquired a negative aura. It is important for the industry to understand the difference between double brokering and co-brokering, because one can be an asset to your brokerage business, while the other is a definite risk.


People often ask whether it is legal for a licensed transportation property broker to accept a load from its customer and give that load to another broker for assistance arranging transportation. The answer is yes, and it is known as co-brokering.


Not only is co-brokering legal, it may be advantageous at times to have another broker help cover a load, as long as the contract that the original broker has with its customer does not specifically prohibit co-brokering. When done properly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with co-brokering, assuming the transaction is handled in accordance with the permission of the original broker.


Downside of Double Brokering

There really are no benefits to double brokering - only risks. By the inherent nature of the transaction, double brokering is not the same as co-brokering.


When a motor carrier agrees to transport freight for a broker (under the guise it will haul the freight), and the carrier subsequently re-brokers it to another carrier, the freight has now been double brokered.


The same is true when a carrier (that also has broker authority) accepts a brokered load (as the carrier) and then tenders that load to another carrier through its brokerage (without the broker's knowledge or consent).


In either event, the original broker is now in a compromising situation:


  • • It does not know who is actually handling the freight.
  • • It does not know whether the actual carrier has the required permits.
  • • It does not know if the carrier's insurance is adequate to protect the parties.
  • • It does not know what due diligence was performed to qualify the carrier.
  • • Tracing the freight also becomes dubious at best, usually leaving the original broker with incorrect information to transmit to its customer.

The original broker also runs the risk of being caught in a potential double jeopardy situation. For example, if it pays the contracted carrier (that double brokered the load), and that carrier does not pay the actual carrier, the original broker (or its customer) may be held accountable to pay a second time for the same freight movement.


Undoubtedly, this type of substandard activity has aided in giving the transportation brokerage community a questionable reputation.


Benefits of Co-Brokering

Co-brokering is when a broker works with another broker to service a specific need, with all parties aware of each other's functions and responsibilities. The question at hand is not whether to deal with another broker, but rather to use another broker's resources to your advantage when your resources do not suffice.


The most important benefit of co-brokering is servicing your customer. It proves your brokerage has the available resources to service all their requests.


Beyond that, co-brokering can result in a profit on a transaction that your brokerage might have otherwise refused. After all, you're in business to do business, not refuse business. If you don't service your customer, someone else will.


Some brokers have developed niches that other brokers can use to their advantage in better servicing their customers. Some of the niches include border crossings, bonded freight, working with hazardous materials, oversize equipment and local contracts.


A broker's services are not limited by assets, but rather by its imagination to adapt and adjust to situations. Therefore, its abilities can be enhanced by leveraging the capabilities of other brokers. When brokers work together, it is usually because one has capabilities to complete whatever the other currently lacks. The bottom line is that co-brokering gives brokers the ability to adapt and adjust to unfamiliar situations.


By working together in a co-broker relationship, both brokers benefit, as well as the initial customer. All parties involved should have the satisfaction of a job well done by servicing a customer and maintaining a profit. The alternative would be to leave the money on the table for the competition to take.


An alliance with another broker is simply another opportunity to offer services that your brokerage did not have before the alliance. Once a broker recognizes the benefits of co-brokering (and decides to deal with other brokers), the broker can add the services of its co-brokering allies to its own portfolio, thereby widening its range of services offered. When it comes to liability and the bottom line, would you rather deal with a broker you know or a carrier you do not?


Before conducting business with another broker, you should perform adequate due diligence to research and get to know the company you are considering. This is a very important step that should not be discounted. There are contracts designed specifically for co-brokering, outlining what each party to the transaction can expect of the other.


About the Author

Gilles Roch is a Certified Transportation Broker, member of the TIA Board of Directors, TIA Executive Committee and TIA Membership Review Board. He is also president of G. Roch Consultant Ltd. and can be reached at[email protected] or (888) 476-2488.


Gilles started his career in the transport industry in 1966 as a driver. In 1975 he became an owner-operator and later owned and operated his own fleet of trucks. In 1978 he started his brokerage, and over the years has sold his interests in the asset part of his undertakings, preferring to concentrate on his brokerage operations.

Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 08:03 AM CST
I found the above article that attempts to explain co brokering and double brokering. I am just a dumb old plowboy so here is the article for you to read and make of it what you will.
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 09:28 AM CST
- 1
hmm two explanations that sound pretty much the same but orede differently but has advatages for and can benefit the broker , can be good for the broker . can earn the broker more revenue..... where does the carrier fit in except for being the mule that packs the load for the noe half full bag of oats..........
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 09:41 AM CST
+ 1 - 2
I have always wondered why every day there are numerous articles about how good companies are doing how good shippers are doing how good receivers are doing how good Brokers are going everybody's making money. I never hear an article talking about wow we really think the guys that haul all of this stuff to us they deserve to make a good living they deserve to see their family we are so proud of them didn't ever hear anything about them maybe that's why when I walk in there I'm ready to punch everybody that I see. Until someone could actually prove that there is at least one Godly honest broker out there I will never rest my case because I simply think they are all scum bags they are worse than the immigrants that hasn't taken a shower for two months and shits out the bottom of his truck while him and a 17 Brothers driving across the country for $0.10 a mile
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 09:42 AM CST
+ 1 - 1
funny but not once did i see a profit for the trucking company transporting the freight, only the broker, co-broker and the shippers were all satisfied.
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 09:43 AM CST
- 1
Quote: "funny but not once did i see a profit for the trucking company transporting the freight, only the broker, co-broker and the shippers were all satisfied."

No shit!!!
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 09:52 AM CST
+ 1
Quote: "hmm two explanations that sound pretty much the same but orede differently but has advatages for and can benefit the broker , can be good for the broker . can earn the broker more revenue..... where does the carrier fit in except for being the mule that packs the load for the noe half full bag of oats.........."

Reminds me a lot of the transcript I read of Obama's attorney describing the difference between legally and lawfully in front of the Supreme Court the other day. Bunch of twisted words and very vague definitions. I agree it sounds like a total crock.
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 10:02 AM CST
Quote: "Duane, seems to me there is a VERY fine line between cobrokering and double brokering. Can you explain to me the exact or legal difference. Art Pfluger"

I wish I could explain it but from everything I have read the only difference is in what you call it. Same ol' same ol'. In looking at how these new 3pls do things it isn't any different than what a broker does. Supposedly a 3pl takes posession of the load and a broker doesn't. I have no experience in 3 pl'ing. I agree with Jason on a couple of his points but I would also like to point out that I have dealt with some really shady characters that were owner operators in my time spent in brokerages. One thing I never understoood is why an owner operator would go around me to get to loads to bid them cheaper than I was paying them. One guy told me that once he had me out of the way, he could raise the rate to where he wanted it to be. It didn't work out that way, however. He fell flat on his face because he couldn't handle the volume of material moving. I not only got the loads back but got the rate increase the owner operator was trying to achieve when he backstabbed me. Gave the increase to my drivers and still worked off my 8% commission. That's a little off track from what Art asked but I had a couple minutes to ramble. I know this business is not a perfect world to work in and everyone is trying to make a buck or two. Do what you do and be profitable at it. As I tell my owner operators, I have no purpose in this business if you don't make money and do your job well. My job is to keep you running profitably and in turn you keep me running profitably. It is still a team effort.
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 10:18 AM CST
duane , i like alot of the things you say and i am sure that somewhere out there is a good broker or two , but most of them take a little here take a little there , ask what you want to haul the load and when you bid a decent rate but its still less than what you are getting do not tell the driver well its paying more than you bid and i'm going to give you my rate instead..... the honesty and integrity is not there. how many brokers are willing to open thier doors and thier rate sheets to thier carriers to verify all they are taking is thier brokerage chrarge and not a penny more. . i'm jst a 1 truck operation and all my invoicing is on my laptop and my laptop is always in my truck , if i see someone hauling the same product as me through a broker and they gripe about the rate i tell them what it really pays , if they don't believe me i offer to show them my invoice for that load. in other words i stay prepared to back up what i say. . i for once would like to see a broker tell a trucker , you know i have a guy i haul for and for what he pays my brokerage takes your profit ,, why don't you just call them and haul direct on the outbound and let me reload you with a money maker coming back....THAT..... is brokers and carriers working together. but...thats why i could never be a broker . my honesty and integrity would put me out of business.
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 10:30 AM CST
Quote: "duane , i like alot of the things you say and i am sure that somewhere out there is a good broker or two , but most of them take a little here take a little there , ask what you want to haul the load and when you bid a decent rate but its still less than what you are getting do not tell the driver well its paying more than you bid and i'm going to give you my rate instead..... the honesty and integrity is not there. how many brokers are willing to open thier doors and thier rate sheets to thier carriers to verify all they are taking is thier brokerage chrarge and not a penny more. . i'm jst a 1 truck operation and all my invoicing is on my laptop and my laptop is always in my truck , if i see someone hauling the same product as me through a broker and they gripe about the rate i tell them what it really pays , if they don't believe me i offer to show them my invoice for that load. in other words i stay prepared to back up what i say. . i for once would like to see a broker tell a trucker , you know i have a guy i haul for and for what he pays my brokerage takes your profit ,, why don't you just call them and haul direct on the outbound and let me reload you with a money maker coming back....THAT..... is brokers and carriers working together. but...thats why i could never be a broker . my honesty and integrity would put me out of business."

Back in the day when I drove over the road I would stop at a truck stop for a meal occasionally just to sit and listen to what other guys were doing. Truck drivers typically like to brag on how fast their truck is, how good their fuel mileage is and back then how much money they were making. It was interesting to hear what and who they were hauling for. I picked up a lot of customers that way and managed to get shipper direct into a lot of places. Many of those same companies work with me still today. As far as someone coming in to see rate sheets and the like, the front door is always open. Stop in and check our operation out. I have nothing to hide. Don't own a coffee pot but the cafe is a block and a half down the street. When I quote my drivers the rates, they always know what the load pays me. The confirmation that i send them reflects the rate it pays them. The guys attatch their paperwork to that confirmation and send it back in. Everything is black and white. That's the way I like it. I am too busy to try to remember what lie I told someone. Easier to tell the truth. I am not a saint by any means as I did have a life prior to being in this end of the business and there are things in that life that I am not really proud of. Any time you get into my country up here stop on in. Door is open.
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 10:30 AM CST
Can I ask you an honest question, do you know what the cost per mile for break even . If you do I applaud you . Nobody can haul 1.70 freight and say they are making money. I have been in this industry 32 years in oil and gas transportation. I do believe you provide a service for the shippers but one can only take so many apples out of the before the horse starves to death. You will still make your 8% at the cost to the transport company
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 10:39 AM CST
Quote: "Can I ask you an honest question, do you know what the cost per mile for break even . If you do I applaud you . Nobody can haul 1.70 freight and say they are making money. I have been in this industry 32 years in oil and gas transportation. I do believe you provide a service for the shippers but one can only take so many apples out of the before the horse starves to death. You will still make your 8% at the cost to the transport company"

Actually I do know cost per mile. I drove for several years and I owned equipment as well. Heart problems took me out of the seat and behind the desk. Less stress my foot. Driving was a whole hell of a lot easier. I still get antsy when one of my guys pulls in with one of our loads to drop off paperwork or just to say hi. Wouldn't mind jumping in the seat again but 4 heart attacks and a triple by pass kinda prevent that. We talk to our guys quite a bit about what their cost per mile and their floor is for a monthly average rate per mile is. Right now I have some unhappy guys because they have been sitting a little more than they like to. The reason is simple. I don't like cheap freight. A little patience,(of which i have a very limited supply) and a little fishing normally leads to a rate that is acceptable to me and to them. I've said many many times, what we do doesn't work for everyone, but the one's it works for seem to be relatively satisfied. Not too many days that I don't talk to a driver or two asking about our program. it's not perfect but then nothing is. As stated before, stop in anytime, the door is open.
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 10:44 AM CST
I dunno , i haul short haul less that 250 miles one way loaded and deadhaed back for another 5 days a week at 1.70 per running mile its steady consistent and solid year round and i'm making plenty money . average 19 to 2200 miles per week , my fuel cost is less than 500 dollars my equipment is kept in top notch shape and my bank account is growing nicelyalthough there is a cut off point to what you can haul for its not always what your making but rather how you are managing it that makes a difference.
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 10:58 AM CST
Kind of funny when a real estate transaction takes place in more than one broker is involved they both share the same slice of pie one doesn't go back to the pie and get himself an extra slice I always wondered why it never worked in this industry makes you wonder
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 11:49 AM CST
alot of guys don't pay attention to how many hands are in the cookie jar or even how many cookies are in it either , theres a lot of them that have the mentality ..as long as they get a cookie and are counting white lines on the highway , thats all that matters. if its moving its making money.. the road to the poor house is paved with good intentions and theres lots of brokers offices and load boards along the way.
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 11:51 AM CST
oh..and duane..... hats off to you on the ....my door is open come in and snoop all you want, because I know several other brokers are reading this thread and not one has stepped up to match you yet.
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 12:16 PM CST
Co brokering :
Questions that I always ask myself are those such as these
Too lazy to get their own contract
too stupid to get their own contract
doesn't care about anyone but themselves
Brokers love it because it helps them get rid of their Freight makes them look better to the shippers and receivers. Brokers don't tell their shippers and receivers are home they have their contracts with that they have also given it to another trucking company most shippers and receivers will not have contracts if they knew that outside sources hauled their Freight ?
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 12:24 PM CST
So I have explained this many times here and in other forums, I will make it as easy as possible:

Double Brokering: Illegal because of possible insurance exposure to the shipper, plain and simple.

Co-Brokering: Is not illegal but it should be, and I agree with Jason on his expressions about co-brokering 100%.

Here is an article that I posted some time back in the Independent Carrier Group on the topic from the carriers point of view.

As much as we dislike brokers, I really hate it when brokers co-broker, and I really despise it when the broker you got the load from to start acts like it is their load in the first place. We all know that any time a broker touches a load that they are going to make money. If they did it the right way then that would not be a problem, but when they just keep cutting the rate to get their cut then eventually their is no meat left but just a bone. I have grown tired of just having bone soup. Shippers are telling me that trucks are now hauling for .86 per mile. I don't know how, do these carriers have trucks that get 20 mpg? Do they have insurance? Do they have drivers? Do they even have a life? They are one or two months from being out of business and they don't even know it. I get told all the time that I am too expensive but what amazes me is that the brokers and shippers seem to be calling more and more everyday wanting our trucks but are just having a problem wanting to pay our rates. Either pay what we ask or just leave us alone.

Here is an example of what goes on with the co-brokering situation:

Load pays $2600.00 from the shipper for 867 miles:
Broker 1: (20%) $520.00 $2080.00 to broker 2 or truck
Broker 2: (20%) $416.00 $1664.00 to broker 3 or truck
Broker 3: (20%) $332.80 $1331.20 to the truck

Here is how it should work:

$2600.00 x 20% = $520.00 divided between the three brokers, $173.33 each. $2080.00 to the truck.
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 12:44 PM CST
Quote: "oh..and duane..... hats off to you on the ....my door is open come in and snoop all you want, because I know several other brokers are reading this thread and not one has stepped up to match you yet."

it would be handy if a bunch of you would show up here sometime around the 1st of june. The building we are in is being sold and we are moving to a different space. need muscle. snoop all you want but carry the box you snoop thru over across the street to the new digs.
Replied on Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 10:00 PM CST
+ 1
Duane,
I would stop and help but you know I have a bad back...LOL. I don't need to see your records. I KNOW that you are one of the best. Once upon a time I submitted a post lumping all brokers in one pot and in the process I upset Jim Nolte. I think all of us know that there are good and bad people in all walks of life. There is only one brokerage House that I have feel is just straight up crooked and there is nothing that I can do about it.

I have a problem with Co brokering. To me it is unethical at least the way it is done today. If broker A told me that the load tendered was co brokered and the total percentage was 8-10%I wouild be ok, but we all know that is not how it works. I like working with people like Tommy Wilhelm and Duane and a few others as I feel that they treat with the idea that it has to work for all of us at least most of the time.

I have had situations where I haul a load from point A to point B for a broker. Now this broker has a load from point C to D, but he has no freight to get me there. So he goes on a load board and grabs a load posted that anyone could get. Now if he did that with no charge I shouldn't have a probelm with that, but of course the broker has many reasons why he deserves to take his ordinary fee from this load from point B to C. For me that is unexceptable.

When the same broker co brokers and it as plain as day that all of the brokers are taking a peice there is not enough for me, but of course the nice broker put me in a place with a promised load out but that paperwork isn't given to me until I'm there and am in a corner. If the brokers involved took their part of 8-10% instead of each of them taking 8-10% I would be Ok.

I'm not in a scenario like some others on here where I run in a confined or repitious route where I can decide to go shipper direct or not. I need brokers some of the time. I'm not large enough to have shipper direct contacts in 35-40 states. I also understand a shipper not wanting to laod me a few times a year when he is large enough to ship 10 or more loads a day.

As the stuff you posted stated cobrokering is a much more beneficial thing for brokers than for truckers.

Hopefully there will someday be a sloution, but I think it as likley as World Peace.

Art Pfluger

If I sit here and call out the people that are greedy I will be very short of work. Just the same as if I would require most brokers to prove what the load paid and how much I got to haul it, would be short of work. I know some feel that take the rate if it works and don't care what that broker makes. That is unacceptable. I'm not working to death while someone else makes a months wages off of me in a day,.
Replied on Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 08:08 AM CST
Good posting to all, I am with Art. We need to support the hononrable brokers like Duane, Tommy, and Jim. If we would all just stop hauling with the dishonorable ones then they might just go away. Of course there would be more to pop up our of the woodwork like termites do after they infest the wood. I in the past (when we were actively a broker) and we had one of our carriers get into an area that we did not have the customers, I would contact an honorable broker in the area and tell him that there was an hononrable carrier available in his/her area. They would do a contract with that carrier and get them a load back North between those two companies. We would not receive a cut of that load, it was the other brokers load and that would not be ethical in my book. What did it cost me? A phone call, and in return when the other broker would get a truck up here in my area they would call me likewise and I would get their carrier a load back down South. This eliminated the backhaul for our carriers. In the old days this was called networking and working together for the good of all parties, but today they want to co-broker and make money off the truck no matter how bad it hurts the truck.

I always viewed that if given the chance the trucker would perform much better when receiving the better rate. This is not always true because we now have the greedmonster on the carrier side as well. We old school Independent Carriers still believe in great service for a great rate that is fair and equitable for all parties involved. When life becomes only about the money, the life is very mundane indeed. Our industry is full of lies and therefor makes it hard for those of us that have Integrity to function in it, but yet we continue to plod along in the hope that there are others out there like ourselves. I have found that customers appreciate my candor and honesty when it is approached the proper way. I have had many in various forums ask how I am still in business with some of things that I have said. Here is the deal, I only deal in the truth, and the truth will set you free. You may not like the truth, because you can't handle the truth, but in the end you will always respect the truth. Co-brokering is not the truth, it is a lie that is legally cloaked as such.
Replied on Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 08:13 AM CST
Quote: "Duane, I would stop and help but you know I have a bad back...LOL. I don't need to see your records. I KNOW that you are one of the best. Once upon a time I submitted a post lumping all brokers in one pot and in the process I upset Jim Nolte. I think all of us know that there are good and bad people in all walks of life. There is only one brokerage House that I have feel is just straight up crooked and there is nothing that I can do about it. I have a problem with Co brokering. To me it is unethical at least the way it is done today. If broker A told me that the load tendered was co brokered and the total percentage was 8-10%I wouild be ok, but we all know that is not how it works. I like working with people like Tommy Wilhelm and Duane and a few others as I feel that they treat with the idea that it has to work for all of us at least most of the time. I have had situations where I haul a load from point A to point B for a broker. Now this broker has a load from point C to D, but he has no freight to get me there. So he goes on a load board and grabs a load posted that anyone could get. Now if he did that with no charge I shouldn't have a probelm with that, but of course the broker has many reasons why he deserves to take his ordinary fee from this load from point B to C. For me that is unexceptable. When the same broker co brokers and it as plain as day that all of the brokers are taking a peice there is not enough for me, but of course the nice broker put me in a place with a promised load out but that paperwork isn't given to me until I'm there and am in a corner. If the brokers involved took their part of 8-10% instead of each of them taking 8-10% I would be Ok. I'm not in a scenario like some others on here where I run in a confined or repitious route where I can decide to go shipper direct or not. I need brokers some of the time. I'm not large enough to have shipper direct contacts in 35-40 states. I also understand a shipper not wanting to laod me a few times a year when he is large enough to ship 10 or more loads a day. As the stuff you posted stated cobrokering is a much more beneficial thing for brokers than for truckers. Hopefully there will someday be a sloution, but I think it as likley as World Peace. Art Pfluger If I sit here and call out the people that are greedy I will be very short of work. Just the same as if I would require most brokers to prove what the load paid and how much I got to haul it, would be short of work. I know some feel that take the rate if it works and don't care what that broker makes. That is unacceptable. I'm not working to death while someone else makes a months wages off of me in a day,. "

Not a problem on not coming up to help carry boxes, Art. We pretty much have that covered. LOL I totally understand you feeling on co brokering. I go through similar emotions every day in trying to find profitable loads for my guys. It gets harder and harder every day to accomplish this. Some of my guys have to sit and wait a little until we can get "the rest of the story" figured out on their run. As for sometimes grabbing a load and giving it all to the driver......well now you are giving away some of my secrets because I do exactly that. Had a guy stuck in Mt Pleasant Tx a couple days ago with a load that cancelled out. Closest load was in Inola ok going out to the Western slope. Had a good rate on it so i snagged it, told the driver to make tracks and we headed west. Gave him the whole load. Not his fault the load bailed out, not my fault either, but the truck needs to make a living or I don't make a living. I figure I make enough during the year to work a few loads for free to keep the guys going. Got the driver over to a load that paid 2.35/mi then on to the next load that paid 2.39/mi. Its the way I learned to do this and thats the way I still do it. As I said, I ain't no saint but we have to work together to make this work for both us sleazy brokers and the truckers. I have 50 of the best drivers anywhere and me and my dispatchers will do whatever is necessary to see that they are taken care of. No brag just fact. May world peace break out and everybody be happy. Catch you later Art.
Replied on Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 12:40 PM CST
Co-brokering,double/triple is the same..Your example still shows a 4 way cut,where if one"honest"broker took a smaller more reasonable fee (5%,to pay for their phone&desk))then there wouldn't be any dis-taste for brokers,like stealing washout fee&fuel surcharge..As I said before,when I retire I will name these brokers and I'm sure they know who they are....That simple.
Replied on Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 01:40 PM CST
- 1
I have learned about CO- or Double brokering, as you move freight you will learn the difference between the two I found that double brokering is the source of risk and if there is a conspiracy around you, double brokering can only help you, that's if, other than that, CO- is good and double is bad. Pac-Shle-Xprs
Replied on Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 02:04 PM CST
Quote: "I have learned about CO- or Double brokering, as you move freight you will learn the difference between the two I found that double brokering is the source of risk and if there is a conspiracy around you, double brokering can only help you, that's if, other than that, CO- is good and double is bad. Pac-Shle-Xprs"

Hence lies the problem with our society, we no longer function on Ethos but instead rely more on mores.

While Co-brokering may be legal it is not indeed good for anybody except the brokers.

It is legal in some countries to beat a child and woman with a stick that is no larger than ones thumb.

Does that make it good because it is legal?

It is legal in some countries to chop off the heads of individuals that don't conform to that countries beliefs?

Does that make it good because it is legal?

It is legal in some countries to drink and then drive?

Does that make it good because it is legal?

As we can see we must be able to distinguish with integrity being the best common sense choice for what is really good, by using Ethos and Logos vs Mores then and only then will we understand the power of working together willingly.
Replied on Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 02:10 PM CST
+ 1
you can bet if i catch one doin it i'll blast em publicly right then , won't be any waiting to retire or anything else , morals and pricinples are worth alot more than cut rate freight.
Replied on Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 02:28 PM CST
Well then, TQL is a double brokeing company, I have heard not so good things about TQL, but from my experience TQL totaly knows what they are doing and as far as I can see they are doing just fine, with minimal casualties. Just for the record. I don't applause them for double brokering, but I don't disagree either. Pac-Shtle-Xprs
Replied on Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 02:42 PM CST
Quote: "Well then, TQL is a double brokeing company, I have heard not so good things about TQL, but from my experience TQL totaly knows what they are doing and as far as I can see they are doing just fine, with minimal casualties. Just for the record. I don't applause them for double brokering, but I don't disagree either. Pac-Shtle-Xprs"

sooo......umm...uhhh.... hmmmm , so may things i could say , but nah just gonna let that one speak for itself... wow
Replied on Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 02:44 PM CST
Quote: "Well then, TQL is a double brokeing company, I have heard not so good things about TQL, but from my experience TQL totaly knows what they are doing and as far as I can see they are doing just fine, with minimal casualties. Just for the record. I don't applause them for double brokering, but I don't disagree either. Pac-Shtle-Xprs"

We all know about them already, and we run them off of here every chance we get. They are on my do not haul for list, I and others have decided to boycott them. Most honorable brokers that I know won't work with them anymore, because they have caught them trying to steal their customers after the co-brokered with them on a load or two.

I am glad you brought them up, because this gives me the opportunity to warn the honorable brokers about the woes of co-brokering. Co-brokering can often times end up like giving the Chinese the blueprints to your widget and asking them to build the widget for you cheaper, then the next thing you know they are selling your widget under a different name. Every time you co-broker you are taking the risk of that broker now coming after your customer. I know that you have the no back solicitation in your contract but we all have seen this happen more from brokers than from truckers. Even worse the co-broker now convinces your carrier to only haul for them, not only taking your customer the shipper but also your customer the shipper.

Yep good old c0-brokering, I guess that is why I never did it and if I choose to broker again, I never will. I would trust Jason Weast with my customer before I would trust another broker. I know that Jason would be just moving one load on his truck and I would get the rest, but another broker would take all the loads and cut me and Jason out altogether.

There you have it, a past brokers view on co-brokering the bad side of it.

If you want my view as the shipper I will be more than happy to give that to you as well.
Replied on Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 02:56 PM CST
That last post was not a slam on Jason Weast, it was just to let you know that I can trust him with my customers as well as he can me with his.
Replied on Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 03:49 PM CST
Like I said, I have heard some not so good thing about TQL, thus you be the proof of that, I would like to thank you for your honest opinion and experiences, I remembered the question I had years ago about double brokering, it was my first question I asked to the forum. I thank you AL and KEVIN for you input and I am sure in the future we will cross forum chat again. Sign: Sam N Pac-Shtle-Xprs.
Replied on Sun, May 01, 2016 at 05:10 PM CST
Read the title: Shippers Try to Lock in Low Truck Freight Rates in the Industry News on here. It speaks volumes as you read between the lines.
Replied on Sun, May 01, 2016 at 06:21 PM CST
That is what I have been on the phone today about with our members among other things as well. I explained that this is the Mega shippers telling the Mega carriers to come down on their prices or they will use us instead. Here is the laugh I don't know about you but I want nothing to do with the Mega shippers and their nasty attitudes from their workers. I despise picking up from them and delivering to them. I always prefer to work with the smaller guys, the treat us better. You will know the took decreases when you see the announcement that they are cutting drivers wages again. Then if you think rates are bad now wait until they concede.
Replied on Sun, May 01, 2016 at 07:50 PM CST
The "between the lines" would be that "Cheap and Heavy" knows the market to bid on long term contracts and on the other side, take advantage of an over supply of trucks in the spot market. Giving them handsome margins. Of course they are dealing with large shippers most of us aren't interested in. Nor could we service.

Just a little FYI: To all that contribute to these forums I want to say thank you. I'm looking for any information I can, to get a thumb on the pulse of what's going on in the bulk business and trucking in general. I read the ATA agenda put out in some publications and the pissing and moaning from OOIDA. This is a shitty business but we hold our heads high and conduct ourselves professionally and treat our customers with respect. And expect that in return.
Replied on Sun, May 01, 2016 at 09:56 PM CST
Quote: "The "between the lines" would be that "Cheap and Heavy" knows the market to bid on long term contracts and on the other side, take advantage of an over supply of trucks in the spot market. Giving them handsome margins. Of course they are dealing with large shippers most of us aren't interested in. Nor could we service. Just a little FYI: To all that contribute to these forums I want to say thank you. I'm looking for any information I can, to get a thumb on the pulse of what's going on in the bulk business and trucking in general. I read the ATA agenda put out in some publications and the pissing and moaning from OOIDA. This is a shitty business but we hold our heads high and conduct ourselves professionally and treat our customers with respect. And expect that in return."

Good points Dean, it does no good to piss and moan, nothing gets accomplished by that. The only thing that makes a difference is we Independent Carriers realizing that if we worked together that we too could have the same leverage as the Mega's without all the extra fat. What if we can beat them at their own game? What if we could get the same fuel discounts that they do? What if we could get the same style deals on tires, and equipment? The only difference between us and them is our drivers when it comes down to it. We by and large have better quality drivers or we should anyways, especially when the majority of us are 1 or 2 truck operations that are very picky about who we let drive our equipment. I have shippers that want to contract with me because they are tired of the quality of drivers the Mega's have been sending their way. We Independent Carriers just need to open our minds and eyes a little bit and learn that by working with each other instead of against each other that we can actuallly obtain better rates and better deals.
Replied on Mon, May 02, 2016 at 08:33 AM CST
If I did that load it would be about 3500,00, 10-4