Beyond e-logs

It's a shame that we don't have more men like you, because then we wouldn't be in this mess. One of my favorite films to watch is trucker wars, it's a documentary that was produced by the gentlemen who founded over drive magazine.(He died recently). It was comprised of old news footage by the major news network's of the day that covered the three truckers strikes as they happened. Bowling balls dropped off overpasses, snipers on the Ohio turnpike, severe beatings for drivers who crossed the picket lines, good old fashioned testosterone, something we seem to be lacking nowadays. Our fore fathers at least had enough guts to stand up and fight for what they believed, unlike the pussies we have out here today. After watching All the submissive's out there Give up their paper logs, I am convinced they would just as eagerly give up their guns. Sure you hear all this tough talk from folks with a NRA bumper sticker, but many of them also talked tough about defending their right to a paper logbook, and look how that turned out? Most of our fellow truckers have been brain washed by Comrade nemo, and his merry band of boot lickers, over at Sirius XM, who are bought and paid for by the megga's, and their corporate masters at the ATA. All you ever hear at every commercial break is how great swift and Schneider are. I feel much better now.

Hey Jason great to hear from ya, it's been to long. You are so right with that comment. We hold all the power, we just lack a chain of command to "activate it". Consider what would happen if all the tanker trucks suddenly stoped delivering fuel, all commerce would stop, and Washington would have to talk with us. What too many folks on our side of the isle don't understand is that appeasement does not work. It didn't work for the native Americans, and it will not work for us. We have sat back and been all cuddley for more than three decades, and look where it has gotten us? We have less rights now than a animal does. Wall Street looks at us the same way a farmer looks at his live stock. How many of us have trucks parked, because we can't find drivers? How many of you have had to watch your insurance claims skyrocket, because you were forced to hire a inexperienced driver, to keep the banker happy? How many of you are on the verge of not being able to get insurance? How many of you think putting camera's in the cab will help you attract drivers? How many of you feel like it Washington cares? The fact is most of you are out of business, and just don't know it yet, you are the walking dead, unless you start standing up for yourselves.

One mans outlaw is another mans freedom fighter.

Kevin your right, e-logs are not the end of the world, but they are the end of your cheap insurance rates. It's a well documented fact, that the meggafleets that use them now crash three times as much as their peers who use paper logs (and that's from FMCSA's own data). So as the rest of us start to adopt this, we can expect to see similar results, and the insurance companies will have to raise our rates. You can expect to pay at least 3 times what you pay now. And when the government forces you to install cameras in the cabs of your fleet, so that they can watch your drivers strip down to their birthday suit in the sleeper, you can expect to be sued for sexual harassment , and you can also expect drivers to stop applying for a job. And before you know it, your whole fleet will be parked, and you will be out of business, so it's not the end of the world.

Well I am not sure how you tie that into truck insurance , perhaps your still inhaling some of the toxic fumes from the branch Davian compound site, where the DEA is burning something from Venezuela ?

I tie it to people running wild and screaming wolf about things that may or may not happen , furthermore were was everyone 2 or 3 years ago when this was all being discussed before it passed.....no where to be found , but now that the gates are open its time to panic , rally , strike , shutdown etc.....well its too late. its kind of like trucking...do you do preventitive maintenece or do you just wait til it breaks down and is too late and then throw a fit about it ,

So dave are you telling me that prior to the passing of this bill that there were no drivers out there tailgating , speeding , following too closely etc..etc... what about the cowhaulers that have made the public argument that there is no way that they can run legal using an eld.....makes you wonder how they run legal with out it huh ? hmmmm......as far as me complaining , nahhh sorry , i'm not complaining i'm just pointing out that its too late to cry about it now , its over , done with its here and not going away..... but....if belittling me makes you feel good then please allow me to make you feel like the biggest testicled testerone gushing gift to the trucking industry that no other man could ever be....... but...heres the deal..... in 2014 it was said stated clarified that we would never see oil umyself...nder 100 dollars a barrell again , its 44 dollars today.... it was stated in 2008 that guns would be banned and no american would be able to own one by 2012.....i still have mine..... it was ...well has been stated several times in the last 50 years that the dollar wold devalue and be worth nothing and the usa would be devastated into poverty ...ain;t happened yet.... were supposed to be a socialist nation by now.... still not , trump was not gona last 45 days in office....still there...... so now according to you and ...i dunno..whoever.....insurance is going to be the end of the trucking industry and the owner operator....do you ummm , have any possible date specific time line on this or is gonna be a wait and see thing like all the other stuff i mentioned.......myself ..heres what i'm gonna do , i'm gonna keep doin what I have been doing and i'm going to keep listening to the propaganda but oly believing hen i see it , ..... and when the deal goes down , if i want to play i will play , if not i will take my toys to another sand box , simple as that...so there you go...... now your turn to cuss and belittle me some more rather than put up plausible and legitimate debate..... ( that belittling thing is juy so much easier than the other stuff huh )....lol

ok so you have all the facts from ooida , and these are rock solid 100% non biased personally bythe staff of ooida researched facts.... thats great.... and it is rock solid beyond a shadow of a doubt positive that insurance ill go through the roof with elds..... how many ins. cos. ie: progressive , haulmark, lloyds of london...etc: have you personally spoken with and been provided more documentation from proving that claim ? ..... heres the deal , the people that are for certain things write and publish articles and propaganda that boasts and supports as well as promotes its agenda and the same is true for the peple that are against something..... the last presidential election cycle for instance.....now I will ask you this,,,, and this is a very important question ..... several companies of all sizes went to elds... several up to 8 or 9 years ago.... of all these companies that went to the elds ...if in fact the crash increase reports are true , experienced increases in crash results or otherwise dangerous driving practices of all those companies how many realized it was becaue of the elds and removed them from thier trucks and published reports of thier findings ? and of the ones that removed them from thier trucks how many of those companies joined the fight against elds ? i mean if we are going to turn this into a statistics say debate then surely those statistics exist also...... don't they ?

yup Dave I like to debate its fun... Agenda nope i think debating with you is funny as hell , especially watching you reach and grasp for what you can. i also find it hilarious that in that last post i made 1 statement and asked you 2 questions which you COMPLETELY avoided the questions altogether.... and as far as agendas and things go it really seems as if youbelieve somehow that elogs were created in order to promte muslims terrorists being able to take over america...thats really out there dave..like realllyyyy out there....lmao. so dave..here you go ..gonna ask those questions again , since you are so informed please reply intelligently to these 2 questions , thanks...

how many ins. cos. ie: progressive , haulmark, lloyds of london...etc: have you personally spoken with and been provided more documentation from proving that claim ? ..... heres the deal , the people that are for certain things write and publish articles and propaganda that boasts and supports as well as promotes its agenda and the same is true for the peple that are against something..... the last presidential election cycle for instance.....now I will ask you this,,,, and this is a very important question ..... several companies of all sizes went to elds... several up to 8 or 9 years ago.... of all these companies that went to the elds ...if in fact the crash increase reports are true , experienced increases in crash results or otherwise dangerous driving practices of all those companies how many realized it was becaue of the elds and removed them from thier trucks and published reports of thier findings ? and of the ones that removed them from thier trucks how many of those companies joined the fight against elds ? i mean if we are going to turn this into a statistics say debate then surely those statistics exist also...... don't they ?

hmmm...ok dave so...your unable to answer either of the 2 questions i directly asked you twice so now its time to resort to the name calling thing huh ? lmao ....classic. totally classic, dave...lol... so ummm do you wanna call me racist and bigot also ?? go right ahead if it makes you feel better , but either way i'm still going to wait for you to answer those 2 questions. ohhh and also i would like to say that i find it hilarious that you are of the belief that the federal government has created elogs and that mandate in order to facilitate the movement to put more middle eastern extremists in trucks....... that one is completely classic..... I mean , who in the world would ever come up with the idea that elogs were created to supply terrorists with big trucks ...llmao.... anyways dave...... gonna be waiting and watching for the answers to those 2 questions.... you do have answers don't you ? dave....dave ?...... don't you dave ??

That guy who done field work all night,then jumps and hauls a load of corn?.. He's exempt.. Unless he goes over 150 miles..... Just a FYI ..... Lol

You can't fix stupid, and you are definitely one of the biggest dumb asses I have ever met. I never said that the government created e-logs to supply terrrorists with trucks, that was you taking what I said, and twisting it.(typical of someone with a mental disorder). I said e-logs would drive people away, and provide a opertunity for terrorists, to take advantage of. (Maybe you missed all those warnings from TSA, and homeland security). Or maybe you think those two government agencies are conspiracy kooks? As for your all important questions about statistics from loyds of London, why don't you show those statistics to me? Well because they don't exist. So how can I tell you I have seen them them then? What pisses you off is that you can't prove OOIDA wrong, and that I wouldn't step into your little trap. All you can do is try twist what I have said, and put words in my mouth. Anyone can go back and read what I said, word for word. If you want to carry the water for your bosses at the ATA, go ahead, but we on my side of the isle, are not going to help you. Actions speak louder than words, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, we'll get the point.

Well that's a cute little stunt there, but you still couldn't provide a direct quote where I said word for word that the government created e-logs specifically to put terrorists in trucks, now could you? You keep on saying that you are not for e--logs, but yet you attack others like myself for opposing them. Actions speak louder than words. I would have respected you had you just been honest, and said you support them, rather then play childish games. As for the name calling, I feel that you earned it, I started out trying to be polite with you, but you kept on pushing. Last week you were antagonizing the rest of us during CVSA, yet I continued to be polite with you, despite that. I personally wouldn't believe anything you say at this point. If anyone is laughing at me, it's for being dumb enough to tolerate you. Now I understand why all the decent folks out ther don't participate in this forum.

If there are any struggling business owners out there, who are about ready to GO UNDER, you should know that Kevin here, thinks it's funny. He thinks it's all a big joke what the government is trying to do to your family. How do you feel about that?

See Kevin hear thinks it's all a joke. I bet he would enjoy it, if some of you stopped by his house for a cup of coffe.

YOU BOTH ARE A REAL DISSERVICE TO THIS INDUSTRY! I DON'T LIKE GOVERNMENT OR ELD STUFF EITHER BUT THE INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE PROBABLY GOING TO SHOVE IT ON US EITHER WAY LAW OR NOT.

Well I read this forum with a lot of interest and the longer it went on I started laughing. It's not a laughing matter to see small trucking companies go out of business but the stupidity with which said companies are run explains it all. Years ago I heard a driver say 'you complain and whine all you want about this new young breed of drivers but face it, they are the way trucking is going and if you don't like it get out'. Btw you can't blame elogs for the failing trucking companies now already cause we still aren't required to use elogs.
I would much prefer to keep it the way it is but that's not an option so here we go, I'm gonna figure out how to make it work and make a profit. I think I can run an elog and still make money. I'm running pretty much legal on paper and making money hauling freight a lot of old timers say is way to cheap. I run what the megas prove is the most efficient truck on the road and there again the some old timers laugh and say you couldn't pay me to run that 'plasticadia'.You can't just keep on doing it the way we always did. I do respect the men that drove for years and years but the doomsday that was predicted many times never happened. My point is be open to change, look at it, observe it and then ask yourself how can I make this profitable. Btw Kevin I'd love to meet you cause I agree with almost everything you said and I love southern sweet tea!!! But since I'm at home in northern Indiana every night it probably won't work out!! Lol

awww man i think we got a bro mance goin here...lol.... but in all seriousness ,I am really new to trucking , i'm only 51 yrs old and have only been running a truck for 32 years so i'm just one of the new kids on the block.... yup thats right . you do what makes you money , just because someone else cannot make a living at 1.75 for every mile they turn loaded and empty that does not mean you cannot.... its all about what you run , how you run it and how efficinet you operate.... i was telling a buddy of mine the ither day ...everybody is peterbilt peterbilt peterbilt if you ain;t got one you ain;'t nothing , well although i do run a kw.... and it gets pretty good mpg and is an efficient truck . the next one i by if i do will damn sure be shopped out for reliabiltiy and performance as far as cost to operate and mpg , and it will more than likely also have an autoshift. everybody these days think you have to have a 600 hp motor and an 18 speed...... i started out and for years ran a 290 with a 13..... damn good combination and could smoke most of the 425 cats i came across.... it ain't nothin to do with hp its all about the set up . and nowdays the setup is efficiency and mpg..... thngs change and you gotta change with them , alot of people said deregulation would ruin the trucking industry , t did'nt , alot of people said the hos 11/14 rule would ruin the trucking industry, it did'nt.... now..elogs...... if...you run legal then theres no problem other than a tiny bit of readjustment , if you have to run illegal to make a living or make money...........you are a big part of the problem and need to be gone..... i'm not a fan of elogs , and not a fan of the megas but i have watched the megas and what they have done and evolved into and kind of followed them , alot of them stopped chasing freight nd went into the dedicated side ,distribution....i pull a hopper , i went and found me a buyer/seller/ and talked to him and dedicated to him to haul only his product from one customer to varous feed mills in a 250 mile radius....... i never knew or thought life could be so good or easy...... the work is there , the oppurtunities are there , just some people can either just not change , refuse to change or do not possess the mental capacity to be able to see what is right there in front of them and change...... and then you have the ones that just want to do thier own thing and work exactly when and how they want but then whine and cry because they cannot fond anything decent to haul and are losing thier ass....... but it will all be over soon since dave has let the cat out of the bag about the gooberment pushing us out to let the terrorists tke over trucking....... i wonder if they will want to drive peterbooms.....or freightbangers......or what....lol

well dave in the first place noone is cramming anything down anyones throat , if that the case then having to pay taxes , having to pay a 2290 , having to buy tags or anything else to do with trucking os beoing crammed down our throats....yeah dave i picked on you and gave you shit , but it was to try and help you see just how dumb your rant about elogs are..... lets look at some things the government has done in the last 20 years to corral and control you that you don't even realize......25 years ago there was a lot of talk about someday we would no longer use money to pay for anything and the government would have a chip or some kind of device planted on us to know what we were doing and where we were at at all times..... well..guess what... if you use a debit card and a cell phone congradulations the government succeeeded without you ever knowing it...... when vehicles went to electronic controls they did it again ....anytime you have a wreck screw up or whatever they can plug into your ecm and see how fast you were going , for how long , tell pretty much how long you have been driving and if theres a wreck , even tell how hard you were braking trying to stop pretty much.... they can also use the gps on your phone , ping cell towers and several other things.... in fact if you have a smart or iphone go to your apps and put in speedometer.... theres one built in to record your speed and gps locatins and other things it just has t be activated......everything to do with elogs is and has been on your truck all along...except for one thing..... that screen that you have to install now....its just one more file that you have to enter just a tiny bit more info onto before driving and a ...per say...deterent to keep you from cheating.....its kind of like old man jones down the road... for years he has known you have been stealing a couple melons a year from him but he had no real proof other than sitting out there day and night watching...... then..... one day he got a game cam and put it up and put up a sign as well as put the cam on a post where you could not get to it.... now you know its there so you stop stealing his melons cause you know you will get caught. now , the government ..the law...has given us plenty of chances to stop cheating....and some have but others.... well they just can't...so..... as a last resort the govt. has said ok... put a cam on a pole with a sign and let em know they not gonna do it anymore..... its not so much the governemnt doing it as it is self inflicted wounds per say.

you just gonna have to explain in detail how an elog is going to put someone out of business ..... i mean...if running that illegal that if you have to run legal it will break you ...then....i'm sorry , you have no business being in business if you cannot operate legitimately... and thats just bottom line....

I really get a kick out of listening to the "One Truck Companies" that have it All Figured Out. So you can run all day legal and still be fresh and have time to get your next load? Guess you haven't trucked long enough or tried any other type of trucking other than what you are comfortable doing... It's like this. We run Reefers and Hopper bottoms. We are dispatched to load silica sand ( Hopper Bottom) at Mill Creek Oklahoma. It will be going 100 miles to Oklahoma City. There is a 7 to 8 hour wait at the sand plant, then you Drive an hour and a half through Construction Traffic and then sit another 1 1/2 to 3 hours to unload.. You have just now ran your clock out, hauled a $325 load and don't have enough hours to do anything with that ELD. You got a little rest but can't log it..... Same situation.. We go to a shipper with a Reefer and the Dispatcher want's you there early at 10 am, but when you check in, they tell you the product won't be ready till 3 pm. You finally back in a door at 4 pm and it's 8 pm when you get your paperwork, and you're supposed to be at the receiver 635 miles away at 6:30 am.... Guys, you drive how you feel. If you're tired, get a power nap and Go. That ELD is going to get several people killed because they will be forced to go, or there will be a lot of late Products because you can't "Legally run".... Yeah, we run Oklahoma to Minnesota and back to Texas, We're familiar with your areas and they aren't any different than any other part of the map. We'll run Paper till we can't run anymore..

oh...and before you reply with something really smartass like i know most people do..... I at one time ran 5 trucks...not a big fleet big I did have drivers , and after many years of being coerced and forced to run illegal and night and day i decided i would'nt anymore and told my drivers , when you get tired r you are out of hours , put it down, because at the end of the day , i will pay a fine , the broker will be pissed but its YOU and not anyone else that they will be slamming that cell door on.

there you jerry , same here , i wrote and called babin , no reply at all , i will be visiting his campaign office come time for elections to explain why he will not be getting my vote. i have also just written my local state rep and waiting his reply...... because you know now texas itself has adopted elds for intrastate by 2019...... its like i have said before , they made all the wrong arguments against elds.... the argument they should have made and the thing tthey should have pushed for was entering into the bill a provision to also put ignotion breathylyzers on all cars manufactured post 2000 in conjuntion with elds on commercial vehicles in the best interest of public safety on the roadways..... that alone would have killed it all. but at the same time with only 2000 out of 2 million truck drivers contacting the politicians they can easily see where the numbers are so we are insignificant to them for the most part.

well 2000 was just a random number , but when it comes to the independents..... most are to self absorbed in pittsburg power boxes , going to the chrome shop , showing off their latest side by side or combing truck salvage trying to keep a truck together to haul some more cheap rate freight rather than watching what the talking heads are doing to us.... lots of people...the majority... almost act like this is all something new that just popped up the last couple months..... its been ongoing for over 5 yrs , was shot down once but the fight continued..... but since nobody paid attention.... here we are.... now as far as people whining about ins, yup thats next, you watch in the next couple years.... a pre 2000 model truck will be twice as much to insure.... the excuse will be just like with some older cars..... it does not have built in saftey features blah blah blah but, we will still insure it , it will just be at a higher cost.

ok so tell me this then why can you guys think all this cool stuff to say on these forum boards but when you are negotiting a load cannot think of these situations , have them enetered into the negotiation for the loads and settle on compensation for it , so if you are held up , delayed etc etc then it does not affect your bottom line ? or do you get so excited at hearing 2 dollars per mile you let the rest fly out the window because you finally get to turn a wheel. and yes i have run walmart dc's with produce and I have hauled nursery stock to walmarts and home depots, but I also negotiated my deals to be fair to me and the shipper , until it got ot be too much and i said hell with it and cut back to 1 truck . I have'nt been everywhere and done everything but i have been out here for 32 years..... and in the first 5 to 7 years learned quickley i clould go broke sitting on my own couch as i could sitting in a truckstop somewhere .

Bruce, when kevin says he only runs one truck, idid not believe him, based on the way he was approaching this subject. So, I did some homework and looked him up. It turns out that he is on the level, with that. His D.O.T.# is 2803540, and has him listed as a "intrastate" only carrier. So he's not really playimg in the same sand box, as the rest of us. Kevin can survive at a 1.75 amile, but i would like to see him try to run a fleet size operattion, on that same number,and see if he would have the same opinion. Running different parts of the country and dealing with shippers that can't mannage their employee's is a whole different game.

why are you hauling a load that is only paying 35 dollare an hour? How do you get a driver to do this this for 25 or 26%?

you see , that right there is a perfect example of people getting into things that they have no business doing , number 1 frac sand is oilfield related , anything oilfield related on rates is converted back to an hourly average as well as the standard in the oilfield is a 4 hour minimum...... thats just a given ...also oilfiled is subject to in most cases detention after 2 hours but that part is hard to get unless you have a contract with specific times on it.... but the 4 hour minimum is standard..... number 2 you got out and bid hopper freight with hopes of a consistent backhaul...wow...brave man you are...... its the little things that count...you know like being familiar with the industry you are dealing with , the trends on what moves where , when , the hot and cold season ...and most of all....... you might start out the only fella doin it but rest assured you will not be for long cause everybody is scrapin and scrappin for a piece of the pie and doin what they have to to get it.....

Sorry dave i do not run past my house i live 70 miles north of houston and my route is on I10 from around the 848 mile marker to as far west as the 632 , i leave on sunday night and come home when i finish , sometimes its thursday sometimes friday , never the less you are right , if you want to grow you set your sights on growth and you grow your business , i have done that in the past but rather than grow right along side r in front of the market i have paced myself and stayed just barely behind market and used an iutside truck or two to bridge the gap...... just my strategy but i have always chosen to keep more on my plate than i needed rather than clean it off and have to hunts scraps....thats where you get in trouble..... but... as you have already pointed out i'm just a 1 truck dumbass wannabe and you...well yiur a fleet truckin magnet that elogs are gonna put out of business.

I am going to make one more statement on this subject, and then it's up to everyone else to take it where ever they want. Kevin you see yourself as the solution, but to the fleet owners out there, you are the problem, because with your low overhead and rate of 1.75 per mile, the only way they can compete against you with the above mentioned overhead, is to run illegally.

Kevin I'm sure glad you have every scenario for every owner figured out. You need to think how it might work for an irregular route long haul carrier. Lots of variables that an ELD won't have any Mercy for. I'm sure you can walk into my office and straighten me out. I really need a know it all so that I'm in total compliance and submission.
Good luck. Oh and no I'm not going to debate you on here forever.

Art Pfluger

Hey Bruce since Kevin invited us all over for tea, I thought some of you may need his address. I believe it's 240, long horn drive east, Livingston Texas. I won't be able to make it myself, but if some of other folks want to pay the man a visit, he said he wouldn't mind.

Well the question is, where do we go from here? Do we both continue acting like children, or do we realize how far this has gotten out of control? I hate what this buisiness has done to us, it seems that we have all turned against one another. I dont know about you kevin, but i am not too proud of the way we both acted.

Well Clarence , it can go as far as you want it to , if you go back and read you will see that you are the one that just could'nt let it go , you have tried to insult me and belittle me,and in general have just not been able to walk away , and then to come off with all your big fleet talk and stuff when you yourself now that you have been outted have to admit that you are nothing more than a just another one of us "Hobby" truckers...lmao...... i will tell you this thoughat least i'm honest i could have come in here like others and made all the big talk about i will not move my truck for less than 6 or 8 dollars a mile , but instead i was honest about my operation.... and it offended you , well sir , that....is your problem not mine , we live in a free country and we operate in a capitalist society , i am free to run my company no matter how big or small in any way I see fit as long as it meets or exceeds my own personal expectations , i'm not indebted to you or anyone else nor am I responsible for anyone else nor obligated to charge or adhere to any type of rules or regualtions whther written or spoken other than the laws of the land. If you are failing or having a hard time keeping your head above water then you have noone to blame but yourself for it is you and noone else who is in charge of thier own fate and destiny , bad business desicions are made by bad business owners , I know far more people who are 1 truck operators who are flourishing than failing. so if you are losing your ass you only have 1 person to blame and you look at him in the mirro everyday. But on another level I can see where you want to blame others for your predicament.... I know some people like that too , nothing is ever thier fault, its always someone else, they did this they did that its neve i it alwys them... ths epeople are generally democrat socialist wannabes that want handouts or to be felt sorry for...well Clarence... not happening here , so...lets take it as low as you want to go i have only been following your lead all along and letting set the pace and lead the way Mr.Hobby trucker.

defensive ? explosive ? nah not me , not at all. somebody wants to meet me my number is right there all they gotta do is call and we can set somethin up. And you are fun , quite hilarious in fact , but then i am easily amused by ignorance. I really find it quite humorous that once you were exposed for who you are... just another hobby trucker..lmao , that you so drastuically changed your tune. and as far as you putting my address out there it was already there but the intent behind your statement .....maybe some of you guys should pay him a visit ... was definitely understood.... but at least dave , i have the balls to list my info and i have the balls to speak my mind. but i guess you thought you were more well hidden with only a cell phone number and listing yourself in a different town , i guess we all know now who the real wanna bes and hobbyists are... but yes, i am walking away from this thread... the last word is yours to have and to say clarence..... but since you are so proud to have my address and you want me to be paid a visit so badly..... why don't you do that undertaking personally and deliver that last word in person.... that way you can derive all your personal satisfaction from this rather than just the keyboard rambo part.... so..with that said... reply anything you wish i'm done.... i will not reply again..... i will though again renew my personal invitation to you to deliver your response in person. so you win hobby boy , roll on...lmao