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Forum: WHAT HAPPENED?????
Posted Wed, Feb 13 2013 09:11 PM CST 7 Likes 1 Dislike
TODD RENNIX
RENNIX GRADING AND TRANSPORT INC.
MOCKSVILLE, NC

Posts: 50
We have had great numbers in Dec. and Jan. What happened? We are now calling and getting rates quoted in the low $1.60's for loaded miles. What the heck. These are from the same brokers and shippers that we used to make good money with. Fuel went up and rates went down. Shame on all of you guys that are moving this trash and more shame on you brokers that are pricing it out. We even got a broker to add a wopping $5 a ton to a load today just to make it "decent". He whined the whole time that we were "raping" him.
Shame on all of us. If its cheap, LEAVE IT!!!!!!!
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Posted Wed, Feb 13 2013 10:23 PM CST 1 Like
JEFF PEARSON
C & R TRUCKING INC
PAYSON, UT

Posts: 574
I think these brokers are undercutting each other out of the loads.. They still make their money, and we get to eat it. Think of this one... Thank you California.. The state was giving, I don't know if they still are up to 45,000 bucks to up date the trucks in California. Sooo you say.... And now the clerks at t he docks won't ratify their contract... So piers locked up, and allof these 45,000 dollar cheaper than your new truck.. You get to compete against them when they start leaving the piers. That difference is about 1,000 a month cheaper than your identical truck.. And we have to compete against them when they grab their flatbeds, vans, refers or what ever.. The brokers also know that these yahoos will grab anything to keep moving. You are starting to see 1.40' 1.50 a mile freight, with over 4 bucks a gallon. We saw in one week a load going to the same place drop about 800 dollars. REPLY
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Posted Wed, Feb 13 2013 10:51 PM CST 2 Likes
ROSE PFLUGER
ROAD WARRIORS TRANSPORTATION INC
MORRISTOWN, AZ

Posts: 188
The problem on this post and another is common, to many hands in the pie. Everyday I see more Freight brokers from the van and flatbed industry coming in and making a huge mess of the bulk frieght, but like other segments of the industry their are those that are hauling for nothing. There are loads posted out of McFarland Ca to In. Last week they went for a per ton rate that in my equipment would have paid me $1.60 per mile. In my world that is to cheap. I wish I knew who took it that cheap.

We can't mention names on the forum and I do understand that. The forum has no way to verify someones complaint against a broker is legit or not, but I wish there was a way to call some of these people out by name. I also wish that there was more of a link between our site and the Livestock board. I hope some others saw the Livestock forum regarding UTI. UTI in the 80's and 90's were under a different name and were the best ever to haul for. Now they are one of the worst. UTI and Landstar have gutted some of our work by 30% overnight.

I also agree with Jeff the California situation is making a bad problem worse. CARB preaches a level playing field in their PR, but in real life, not even close. At the end of the year my trucks can't go into California, but trading them in isn't an option. If for no other reason than the rates don't justify the expense of the newer equipment with higher operating costs. Besides some of them I wouldn't trade for anything. Telling some of us that we should get rid of a truck that we worked that hard for and put that much effort and money into, just not right.

The industry is falling a part and we are letting it. There just isn't a stage or forum to really make a difference. To many people that focus on the money and not the people or lifestyle. They buy these plastic peice of crap trucks and depend on a huge warranty as they wouldn't have an idea how to drive them or check the oil much less work all weekend in their backyard shop to make a commitment happen.

Art Pfluger
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Posted Thu, Feb 14 2013 10:18 AM CST 4 Likes 1 Dislike
WALLY EASON
MAVERICK TRANSPORT INC.
EASTON, MD

Posts: 14
The problem that i see is there is no loyalty from alot of shippers anymore. They will give out the shipments to the lowest bidder and then wonder why thy get terrible service. When i give rates i make sure the truck will get at least 2.15 a loaded mile and if the shipper doesnt want to pay that then thats fine but they normally come crawling back with some horror story about how someone with a cheaper rate jammed them. Pay the money and get good service the first time.
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Posted Thu, Feb 14 2013 11:04 AM CST 2 Likes
RON MILLER
BIG HAMMER INC
RAVENNA, NE

Posts: 118
Originally Posted by: WALLY EASON
Quote: "The problem that i see is there is no loyalty from alot of shippers anymore. They will give out the shipments to the lowest bidder and then wonder why thy get terrible service. When i give rates i make sure the truck will get at least 2.15 a loaded mile and if the shipper doesnt want to pay that then thats fine but they normally come crawling back with some horror story about how someone with a cheaper rate jammed them. Pay the money and get good service the first time."

Well I dont want to start a fight here but just my 2 cents is $2.15 is way short of a "good" rate even with all my equipment paid for I cant see anyone can profit at these rates. Unless your forturnate to not have absolutly no deadhead miles going to and from then its feasable. But add in only 100 miles of deadhead on a 500 mile load and that $2.15 rate drops to $1.79 and for me thats way to far south with $1096 for a pair of cheap steer tires that I mounted myself.
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Posted Thu, Feb 14 2013 11:08 AM CST
WALLY EASON
MAVERICK TRANSPORT INC.
EASTON, MD

Posts: 14
Originally Posted by: RON MILLER
Quote: "Well I dont want to start a fight here but just my 2 cents is $2.15 is way short of a good rate even with all my equipment paid for I cant see anyone can profit at these rates. Unless your forturnate to not have absolutly no deadhead miles going to and from then its feasable. But add in only 100 miles of deadhead on a 500 mile load and that $2.15 rate drops to $1.79 and for me thats way to far south with $1096 for a pair of cheap steer tires that I mounted myself."

Try to argue that with the shipper that you expect them to cover your deadhead miles on top of the service you are giving them for the load. I have tried before and they dont want to hear that. Most responses are find a closer truck, but i agree with what your saying.
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Posted Thu, Feb 14 2013 01:01 PM CST
CHARLES MAHAFFEY II
MAHAFFEY ENTERPRISES, INC
ELIZABETH CITY, NC

Posts: 18
Originally Posted by: RON MILLER
Quote: "Well I dont want to start a fight here but just my 2 cents is $2.15 is way short of a good rate even with all my equipment paid for I cant see anyone can profit at these rates. Unless your forturnate to not have absolutly no deadhead miles going to and from then its feasable. But add in only 100 miles of deadhead on a 500 mile load and that $2.15 rate drops to $1.79 and for me thats way to far south with $1096 for a pair of cheap steer tires that I mounted myself."

Hey all, this kinda off subject what I have to ask....but I have to agree as an owner operator in NC, I have to fight like hell to keep my rates up over 2.15 a mile and I get bragged on about good service I give. But my question is....I'm going to be in Lennox, SD picking up my new hopper in the next couple of weeks and would like to know of someone reputable to help me truck back to NC. My e-mail is nc_snoman@yahoo.com. thanks in advance for any help.
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Posted Thu, Feb 14 2013 01:01 PM CST
CHARLES MAHAFFEY II
MAHAFFEY ENTERPRISES, INC
ELIZABETH CITY, NC

Posts: 18
Originally Posted by: RON MILLER
Quote: "Well I dont want to start a fight here but just my 2 cents is $2.15 is way short of a good rate even with all my equipment paid for I cant see anyone can profit at these rates. Unless your forturnate to not have absolutly no deadhead miles going to and from then its feasable. But add in only 100 miles of deadhead on a 500 mile load and that $2.15 rate drops to $1.79 and for me thats way to far south with $1096 for a pair of cheap steer tires that I mounted myself."

Hey all, this kinda off subject what I have to ask....but I have to agree as an owner operator in NC, I have to fight like hell to keep my rates up over 2.15 a mile and I get bragged on about good service I give. But my question is....I'm going to be in Lennox, SD picking up my new hopper in the next couple of weeks and would like to know of someone reputable to help me truck back to NC. My e-mail is nc_snoman@yahoo.com. thanks in advance for any help.
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Posted Thu, Feb 14 2013 09:01 PM CST 3 Likes
JEFF BENSMAN
J BAR S TRUCKING LLC
EDWARDSVILLE, KS

Posts: 18
remind them who is paying for fuel and what fuel costs are now. Also remind him that we are not obligated to go through a broker. I hate to sound like I would do something under handed, but I would go around a broker in a second straight through to the customer. Brokers think they are intitiled to our business because the "find" the loads. BS, they make a call and under cut the last guy the customer dealt with just to get the business. This is biggest part of the problem we face is cutting rates and trying to make a profit out of our piece of the money made on each load.
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Posted Fri, Feb 15 2013 09:48 AM CST
DON DAVIS
DON DAVIS TRUCKING
INDIAN TRAIL, NC

Posts: 11
So when your in that area and thats the best rate you can find..... What do you do???? Do you sit and wait for better???? Or do you dead head for a better rate somewhere else or just go home??? Or do you just take the load to maybe that will maybe pay your fuel to get you to a better paying load??? WHAT DO YOU DO???

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Posted Fri, Feb 15 2013 10:36 AM CST 1 Like
TODD RENNIX
RENNIX GRADING AND TRANSPORT INC.
MOCKSVILLE, NC

Posts: 50
Originally Posted by: DON DAVIS
Quote: "So when your in that area and thats the best rate you can find..... What do you do???? Do you sit and wait for better???? Or do you dead head for a better rate somewhere else or just go home??? Or do you just take the load to maybe that will maybe pay your fuel to get you to a better paying load??? WHAT DO YOU DO??? "

We usually try to find out before we get there. However, if we get caught with our pants down, I will try to negotiate a better rate. I have been known to just deadhead to a decent rate, or I have been known to tuck my tail and leave the area. I will not haul this cheap crap. There is no excuse for it. When fuel is over $4 a gallon and tires are $450+ for off brands, these $1.65 a mile loads are rediculous. If they wont pay enough to haul it, they must not need it.
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Posted Fri, Feb 15 2013 12:49 PM CST 3 Likes
JEFF PEARSON
C & R TRUCKING INC
PAYSON, UT

Posts: 574
There are those that are having problems with getting the rate up.. Try asking the shipper, if when their costs go up if they don't raise their prices? Or do they want to be put into a position to go broke? Any company will tell you that no they don't want to go broke, and they will raise their prices as much as they can to keep doing it... Or ask them how much the rail road charges for demurage? Are we not a company? Are we not a transportation company like the rail roads? Well I'm a little curious why we let the shippers think that our time is not valuable and that we should take their loads, be responsible to get it to where they want it, with out any damages, for a price below making any money? The rail roads don't have brokers, they also tell the shipper that is the price and if you don't like it... OHHH well call a truck, and you will pay any extra charges that may occure, or they just refuse to go back. Then the load will get here when it does, if the rail car has any safety issues, it is sidelined someplace. And they do forget where these cars are and do lose loads. Then there is those cars sitting on some spur line, with who knows around, playing with the load, stealing, contaminating or what ever..but these shippers still use the railroad.. So with all of this abuse why can't we make money? Get paid for what you are worth? Ok so you take that back haul..just for fuel money...do you like to make less than minimum wage? Any other industry ,the labor department would be all over you for not paying your driver minimum wage.. As in you..how many owner operators, don't have any home, apartment, but live in their truck?how many don't own a pick up or a car? Can't have any credit cards? And when the repo man come for your truck ...you will be homeless? These are the ones that don't have a clue how much it costs to run a truck and if they lose a tire will be out of business..but they will take anything that comes along..but you'll make it up in miles..
I have found that over the years the higher paying the load..the better that you are treated. The shipper says something like ..OHHH your here..great! We will get you loaded right away..and the receiver..OHH your here ...great! We will get you unloaded right away, and if anything happened sir I want to show you some damages..ah ah don't worry about it.....then there is that cheap load..it's like go park over there ,we will get you when we need you..then you get loaded, they want to put on more than 80,000 lbs and get upset when you don't let them. And want you to drive 3,000 miles in a day..You get to the receiver..it's park over there, we get you unloaded when we need the product, and then will turn in a freight claim for anything and everything... Sound familliar? And why do you like to be abused, belittled and treated like cow manure...to haul their load? And not put some money in your pocket? Then you don't get paid that small amount of money that is owed? Then what?now I don't know about you, but I am a small business.. Why don't we treat it that way?
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Posted Fri, Feb 15 2013 10:15 PM CST 1 Like
DAVID HAYES
ROSS BENNETT TRUCKING INC
GALENA, KS

Posts: 169
Originally Posted by: TODD RENNIX
Quote: "So when your in that area and thats the best rate you can find..... What do you do???? Do you sit and wait for better???? Or do you dead head for a better rate somewhere else or just go home??? Or do you just take the load to maybe that will maybe pay your fuel to get you to a better paying load??? WHAT DO YOU DO???

"

Whenever I have to put a round together the truck doesn't move until I have the entire round together. I will not have a truck sitting waiting for me to find something. If I can't make the round pay we don't haul it. PERIOD.
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Posted Sat, Feb 16 2013 03:41 PM CST 1 Like
STACEY TSCHETTER
STACEY & TEENA TSCHETTER
CARPENTER, SD

Posts: 33
Originally Posted by: DAVID HAYES
Quote: "Whenever I have to put a round together the truck doesn't move until I have the entire round together. I will not have a truck sitting waiting for me to find something. If I can't make the round pay we don't haul it. PERIOD."

I do the same thing as you David. My truck isn't gonna leave with a good load and then have to bounce a couple hundred miles out or take a cheap load to get back home. I would rather sit at home and not make money than out on the road doing it.
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Posted Sat, Feb 16 2013 04:28 PM CST 1 Dislike
DON DAVIS
DON DAVIS TRUCKING
INDIAN TRAIL, NC

Posts: 11
Originally Posted by: STACEY TSCHETTER
Quote: "I do the same thing as you David. My truck isn't gonna leave with a good load and then have to bounce a couple hundred miles out or take a cheap load to get back home. I would rather sit at home and not make money than out on the road doing it."

So what Stacy your lively hood doesnt depend on you truck???? I have a house payment, property taxes, utilities, Insurance, trailer payment, phone bill and not to mention I have to eat. and all of this depends on "MY TRUCK" It has got to go hell or high water. I try my best to get the best paying loads I can find and I try to go to the best area I can but alot of the times the best laid plans just dont always work out. My cost per mile is $1.35 a mile and I will not haul for less than that. The very best I have been able to do with this hopper bottom includeing the dead head is $1.80 per mile. These are real figures not a bunch of crap.I sit here and listen to what all you guys have to say and it just doesn't add up and it doesnt seem real.
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Posted Sat, Feb 16 2013 05:13 PM CST 2 Likes
JOHN RATLIFF
K & J TRANSPORTATION
ENID, OK

Posts: 45
The problem is the guys that haul cheap and can't say "No I will not haul it for that" and those same guys are afraid to negotiate and say their own rate. I had a local guy tell me well it is better then sitting at the house and I have to pay my bills. Well sell that truck and trailer and get you a regular job because you don't deserve to be in business for yourself with an attitude like that because you are not helping this industry. I have nothing set up for next week because I am seeing cheap rates running around 1.80 and lower with $4 dollar fuel and grain to the port is paying better then fertilizer coming back home. I bet that owner with five hopper trucks in my area that just lost everything because he took every cheap load ADM threw at him said "Well it beats sitting at home and I have bills to pay" lol . REPLY
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Posted Sat, Feb 16 2013 05:53 PM CST 1 Like 1 Dislike
DON DAVIS
DON DAVIS TRUCKING
INDIAN TRAIL, NC

Posts: 11
Originally Posted by: JOHN RATLIFF
Quote: "The problem is the guys that haul cheap and can't say No I will not haul it for that and those same guys are afraid to negotiate and say their own rate. I had a local guy tell me well it is better then sitting at the house and I have to pay my bills. Well sell that truck and trailer and get you a regular job because you don't deserve to be in business for yourself with an attitude like that because you are not helping this industry. I have nothing set up for next week because I am seeing cheap rates running around 1.80 and lower with $4 dollar fuel and grain to the port is paying better then fertilizer coming back home. I bet that owner with five hopper trucks in my area that just lost everything because he took every cheap load ADM threw at him said Well it beats sitting at home and I have bills to pay lol ."

Well all I can say is good for you. It must be nice that your family isnt dependent on you your truck to pay the bills and put food on the table. Ok quick draw buy me out after 35 yrs of trucking, 15 yrs as a sole propriator and your doing so good buy me out and I will go to work down the street from where I live making a $1000 a week driving for someone else. You guys guys talk a big game but in the real world its not at all like you make to be.
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Posted Sun, Feb 17 2013 09:40 AM CST 1 Like
DAVID HAYES
ROSS BENNETT TRUCKING INC
GALENA, KS

Posts: 169
Originally Posted by: DON DAVIS
Quote: "Well all I can say is good for you. It must be nice that your family isnt dependent on you your truck to pay the bills and put food on the table. Ok quick draw buy me out after 35 yrs of trucking, 15 yrs as a sole propriator and your doing so good buy me out and I will go to work down the street from where I live making a $1000 a week driving for someone else. You guys guys talk a big game but in the real world its not at all like you make to be."

There are 10 families depending on me to make wise decisions. Wise decisions include making sure the trucks operate at a profit and not break even or a loss. If the trucks cannot be operated at a profit then they don’t move. My boss wants to be in business next week, next year, and in 10 years. Hauling just to break even usually isn’t conductive with still being in business in a couple of years.


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Posted Sun, Feb 17 2013 01:27 PM CST 1 Like
STACEY TSCHETTER
STACEY & TEENA TSCHETTER
CARPENTER, SD

Posts: 33
Originally Posted by: DON DAVIS
Quote: "So what Stacy your lively hood doesnt depend on you truck???? I have a house payment, property taxes, utilities, Insurance, trailer payment, phone bill and not to mention I have to eat. and all of this depends on MY TRUCK It has got to go hell or high water. I try my best to get the best paying loads I can find and I try to go to the best area I can but alot of the times the best laid plans just dont always work out. My cost per mile is $1.35 a mile and I will not haul for less than that. The very best I have been able to do with this hopper bottom includeing the dead head is $1.80 per mile. These are real figures not a bunch of crap.I sit here and listen to what all you guys have to say and it just doesn't add up and it doesnt seem real."

Yes my lively hood depends on the truck. That is why it doesn't go out if it isn't gonna make money. Why would you drive all week to just break even. That makes no sense. My truck doesn't have to go hell or high water. I will even pass on a load if the weather is just to bad. Why risk wreaking the truck for a couple hundred bucks. I don't have to run 100,000 miles a year to survive. I do alot of local work. And I can make $4-$8 a loaded mile. So don't sit there and tell me how to run my business. Find what works for you and do it. Or go work at McDonalds.
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Posted Sun, Feb 17 2013 05:17 PM CST
RON MILLER
BIG HAMMER INC
RAVENNA, NE

Posts: 118
Originally Posted by: DON DAVIS
Quote: "So what Stacy your lively hood doesnt depend on you truck???? I have a house payment, property taxes, utilities, Insurance, trailer payment, phone bill and not to mention I have to eat. and all of this depends on MY TRUCK It has got to go hell or high water. I try my best to get the best paying loads I can find and I try to go to the best area I can but alot of the times the best laid plans just dont always work out. My cost per mile is $1.35 a mile and I will not haul for less than that. The very best I have been able to do with this hopper bottom includeing the dead head is $1.80 per mile. These are real figures not a bunch of crap.I sit here and listen to what all you guys have to say and it just doesn't add up and it doesnt seem real."

35 years well I feel sorry for you then. I parked my truck 2 weeks ago cause of cheap loads and the lights are still on here.
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Posted Sun, Feb 17 2013 07:44 PM CST 1 Like
DAVID HAYES
ROSS BENNETT TRUCKING INC
GALENA, KS

Posts: 169
Originally Posted by: RON MILLER
Quote: "35 years well I feel sorry for you then. I parked my truck 2 weeks ago cause of cheap loads and the lights are still on here."

And he can still afford the internet!!!
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Posted Mon, Feb 18 2013 01:45 AM CST
JOHN RATLIFF
K & J TRANSPORTATION
ENID, OK

Posts: 45
Originally Posted by: DON DAVIS
Quote: "Well all I can say is good for you. It must be nice that your family isnt dependent on you your truck to pay the bills and put food on the table. Ok quick draw buy me out after 35 yrs of trucking, 15 yrs as a sole propriator and your doing so good buy me out and I will go to work down the street from where I live making a $1000 a week driving for someone else. You guys guys talk a big game but in the real world its not at all like you make to be."

I won't need to buy you out sounds like your on your way out. 35 years in the business you should had it figured out by know. Didn't say I was doing good but I am hanging in their and it is a stuggle but I will turn down cheap freight and sit at the house. I have been doing this for twenty plus years and seen the good times and bad times you better plan ahead for those bad times.
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Posted Mon, Feb 18 2013 07:21 AM CST
DON DAVIS
DON DAVIS TRUCKING
INDIAN TRAIL, NC

Posts: 11
Originally Posted by: DAVID HAYES
Quote: "And he can still afford the internet!!!"

Yep gotta keep looking for those cheap loads. Oh and seeing which McDonalds is hiring so I can flip burgers while waiting for more cheap loads.
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Posted Mon, Feb 18 2013 08:34 AM CST
RON MILLER
BIG HAMMER INC
RAVENNA, NE

Posts: 118
You know what Don its kinda hard for me to believe you as you state paying the bills with such cheap frieght unless you got another source of income helping you out. REPLY
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Posted Mon, Feb 18 2013 07:24 PM CST 4 Likes
JEFF BENSMAN
J BAR S TRUCKING LLC
EDWARDSVILLE, KS

Posts: 18
Originally Posted by: TODD RENNIX
Quote: "We have had great numbers in Dec. and Jan. What happened? We are now calling and getting rates quoted in the low $1.60's for loaded miles. What the heck. These are from the same brokers and shippers that we used to make good money with. Fuel went up and rates went down. Shame on all of you guys that are moving this trash and more shame on you brokers that are pricing it out. We even got a broker to add a wopping $5 a ton to a load today just to make it decent. He whined the whole time that we were raping him. Shame on all of us. If its cheap, LEAVE IT!!!!!!!"

When I started trucking in 1979 fuel was .65 per gallon, and freight rates were .75 to .80 per mile and the industry was totally regulated. Brokers were held to a way higher authority...the federal government. Shippers had to deal with brokers and brokers had to deal with trucking companies. Insurance was cheaper..by a lot, fuel was tightly controlled and we hauled freight with 40 to 45 foot trailers and made money. 40 years later, trucking deregulated, oil companies totally deregulated and shippers, trucks and brokers are at war with each other. The government has only figured out how to make money off of owner operators by taking for example a truck with a tag that is rated 80000lbs and be able to fine the truck for being over weight(400lbs) on MY TRAILER AXLES! and still not over 80000lbs....total weight was 79100lbs. Or a driver is over hours by 2 hours and fined and shut down. Jesus H Christ...who voted these regulation into law? I can tell you this, the Democrats don't want to know what we do and only want to over regulate us from an ability to fine us into bankruptcy and the republicans only want to make regulations favorable to the big 7 or 8 major carriers who want us to go under. My own former governor and now president of the ATA Billy Preston Graves could not care less about owner operators. He is getting his horn blown by J B Hunt and Swift and big brown UPS and a host of horn blowers that are kissing this guy's ass like its made of chocolet. He is in total support of regulations that makes being a single operator next to impossible to be profitable and our own FMCSA is rowing the boat from the other side with him right over the falls draggin everyone of us with them. I don't even want to think about Obama's new health care bill and what it will do to us. Fuel should only cost 2.75 per gallon but because our government refuses to cut the tax on it and put heavy regulation back on big oil's profit. But no one has the balls to stand up to them and say ENOUGH, GD we have had enough. Take the damn keys of the assylum back from the inmates and control this mess instead of letting big business decide what is good for us. I'll tell whats good for us. Screw the vise back down on these guys so hard the scream for a while, tell BP Graves to shut the hell up. and clean out and up the FMCSA and tell the damn states to knock their crap off. Hours of service changes, fuel tax and property tax changes and the cost of fuel, tires, and equipment have got to get under control. But alas, no one has the balls to stand up to them. Stay tuned, I am just getting warmed up.

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Posted Wed, Feb 20 2013 11:06 PM CST
MATTHEW LEMBKE
LEMBKE INC
NORMAL, IL

Posts: 15
Rich &poor that's what the gov wants anyway yes the co's want us to fight over the fright so it will go cheep then they get what they want I try to keep high or reasonable or I don't bid it can be that easy
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Posted Wed, Feb 20 2013 11:06 PM CST
MATTHEW LEMBKE
LEMBKE INC
NORMAL, IL

Posts: 15
Rich &poor that's what the gov wants anyway yes the co's want us to fight over the fright so it will go cheep then they get what they want I try to keep high or reasonable or I don't bid it can be that easy
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