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Operating cost with rising inflation

Feb 28, 2022 at 06:02 PM CST
+ 21 - 1
Not sure how this will turn out, but any RESPECTFUL input would be appreciated. Obviously inflation is getting atrocious right now, so all things considered, why exactly is no one and by no one I mean the brokers, not raising their rates. We run about 5 of our own trucks and have 4 to 5 more outside operations help. So we do get excess loads direct from our customers. That being said, we often do need help with some of our misplaced loads and our rates direct from our customers are staying consistent with rising inflation. So why do brokers rates not reflect that? This is not a sh** talking session, so please don't make it that. I'm genuinely looking for input from brokers and an explanation on why their rates are nor increasing. We Obviously have plentiful loads on our end, but we do occasionally reach out to brokers to find connecting loads for our guys. But I'm not seeing any rates moving from the stagnant level of early last year with brokers. Input folks...brokers primarily. Thanks in advance.
Replied on Tue, Mar 01, 2022 at 08:18 AM CST
+ 2
In my honest opinion I think some of these brokers if not a bunch took contracts on their loads and are not willing to renegotiate them. Having said that we have been having plenty of conversations this past week of revisiting rates and best I can tell ya is it doesn’t hurt to walk away from the table. Any smart operator knows his per mile costs are and what he needs to be at to be profitable and not only that just to see down the line where his equipment replacement costs are going to be in the future. These brokers offering 2 dollar a mile freight do not touch it period even 2.50 is not worth touching personally we have picked up a cpl deals here as of late that are in the 3.60 range and if it’s under 3 by much we will not even give it a look. The world has changed every last running cost has went up by a minimum of 30% some cases 50% so to remain profitable 3 bucks has to be the new magic number in my opinion.
Replied on Tue, Mar 01, 2022 at 10:36 AM CST
+ 2

Wyatt, I think you are obviously onto something here. I think I can give some insight to our issues. Yearly contracted rates, in this market should be deceased, or at least shortened to quarterly bids. You can price accorindingly for a 2-4% market fluctuation, but quoting for a 11% change in market is impossible. Either you won't win the lane, or your customer will decrease your opportunity to move their future product, based on the outragous rates you gave in the bids. I also think nobody has ever seen a market as crazy as this one. Brokers are learning and with the craziness of this market, most of these brokers are new guys hired by growing companies. Running into guys that have no idea what is going on is sadly just going to happen. I hope I am not far off here, just trying to give you a little insight from this side of the table. Thanks for opening up a good conversation for everyone to chime in on.

Replied on Wed, Mar 02, 2022 at 07:54 AM CST
+ 1
Gentlemen I appreciate the reply. Open dialogue is not really common anymore. It's more point the finger and get angry. So the outside perspective is needed and appreciated. I would say and again, only my opinion and not backed by facts, is that most brokers are probably running into the factors you both spoke about. Granted, I have needed help on my own loads and observed brokers pick up our loads and offer them for 20 to 30% less than what we were originally moving them for. We will all continuously deal with the shady characters of the bunch. However, I think if a quasi-united front comes together on this and says, "hey let's establish some ground rules here", that would be great. But maybe I'm living in a dream world. Reality is, whether we like it or not, this is business ans we are all in this together. This is the biggest, small market I've come across in my my 15 years of trucking. Not the most experienced guy, but certainly have been around the block. So, if there is ever anything or creation of fairness that any of you come across and want help with, I'm all ears and helping hands. I'm just like 95% of us here. Just a small time guy trying to make a living for my drivers and my family. Many orders to each of you reading this and your families. I hope we all find in our hearts the opportunity to do the right thing for the bigger picture. Gouging rates, rising inflation, increased fuel prices...not a sustainable business plan. Thank you again for reaching out. Feel free to contact me with any thoughts or needs and we will do the same on our end, so that open dialogue continues amongst the majority.
Replied on Thu, Mar 03, 2022 at 08:25 AM CST
+ 2
Quote: "Wyatt, I think you are obviously onto something here. I think I can give some insight to our issues. Yearly contracted rates, in this market should be deceased, or at least shortened to quarterly bids. You can price accorindingly for a 2-4% market fluctuation, but quoting for a 11% change in market is impossible. Either you won't win the lane, or your customer will decrease your opportunity to move their future product, based on the outragous rates you gave in the bids. I also think nobody has ever seen a market as crazy as this one. Brokers are learning and with the craziness of this market, most of these brokers are new guys hired by growing companies. Running into guys that have no idea what is going on is sadly just going to happen. I hope I am not far off here, just trying to give you a little insight from this side of the table. Thanks for opening up a good conversation for everyone to chime in on. "

Wes, I think communication is key to anything. HONEST communication. The thing that I don't understand about these conversations is this...why is it perfectly acceptable to pass that 11 percent increase on to me immediately(780 dollar steer tires, 800 dollar tank of fuel, 500 dollar 5g eld upgrade, ect ect) and nobody feels guilty because it's just supply and demand, but it is unacceptable for us to pass those expenses on because it's price gouging. If nobody can raise their rates accordingly without losing the gig, isn't that evidence that there's more competition than ever? Meaning no driver shortage?
Replied on Thu, Mar 03, 2022 at 12:55 PM CST
Honest communication is certainly key. That is applicable towards society today. But yes I would completely agree that any increase on the trucking end is and should be subsequently forwarded to the company offering the load. Thus, the responsibility of the company offering the load, to incorporate those additional increases into their bid. We are all accountable. We as a society seem to have an issue with accountability these days. But I have faith that all of us doing good and being fair, these actions will pay off in the long run and help sustain long term business. Those on both sides taking advantage of the circumstances will eventually have to pay for those mistakes. In closing, we all have a choice to do right, accept or deny loads and/or provide fair rates or choose greed. Our actions will follow us good and bad. So hopefully we all have a level of consciousness in this and make the right long term choices. Honesty always pays off.
Replied on Sun, Mar 06, 2022 at 10:11 AM CST
+ 2

I believe the obvious solution to the problem is implementing a fuel surcharge. Every negotiation should include your rate PLUS the posted national fuel surcharge for the period the load is to be moved. That way, you can bid your rate which is negotiable but the fuel surcharge, is passed on. Additionally, a realistic detention clause should be established to put the burden of keeping the trucks moving exactly where it should be, with the shippers and receivers. If you order a truck and can't get it loaded or unloaded, the cost should be painful enough to make the guilty party avoid the detention in the first place, otherwise there is no motivation to change the practice.

Before anyone says it can't be done, I call bull..it on that argument. It is being done in other segments of the industry. The problem is no one in loop cares enough about our operating costs to do something about it. The value of the product should have no bearing on the cost to move it. Our cost of operation are exactly the same if we are hauling corn or gold bars. If the end cost of a product is primarily due to transportation, so be it.

That is just my opinion, and I could be wrong. 😎

Replied on Mon, Mar 07, 2022 at 08:17 AM CST
+ 3
Quote: "I believe the obvious solution to the problem is implementing a fuel surcharge. Every negotiation should include your rate PLUS the posted national fuel surcharge for the period the load is to be moved. That way, you can bid your rate which is negotiable but the fuel surcharge, is passed on. Additionally, a realistic detention clause should be established to put the burden of keeping the trucks moving exactly where it should be, with the shippers and receivers. If you order a truck and can't get it loaded or unloaded, the cost should be painful enough to make the guilty party avoid the detention in the first place, otherwise there is no motivation to change the practice. Before anyone says it can't be done, I call bull..it on that argument. It is being done in other segments of the industry. The problem is no one in loop cares enough about our operating costs to do something about it. The value of the product should have no bearing on the cost to move it. Our cost of operation are exactly the same if we are hauling corn or gold bars. If the end cost of a product is primarily due to transportation, so be it. That is just my opinion, and I could be wrong. 😎"

I agree with you barry

The cost of going from point A to point B doesn't change, if the distance was 1000 miles it's still 1000 miles it should not be any cheeper per mile just because of the freight. If i haul a load of pencils or a load of meat it's still 1000 miles the truck stops don't offer cheeper fuel when i have pencils on the wagon, or I don't swing by the shop and swap out the tires for the cheeper ones and the toll roads don't change the prices etc

Replied on Mon, Mar 07, 2022 at 09:01 PM CST
+ 1

I have a hard time wrapping my head around everything that is happening today. With fuel prices getting out of hand and brokers not wanting to pay a higher rate, I've decided I'm going to charge a fuel surcharge to make up the difference. I looked up the fuel surcharge chart that is good through 3-8-2022 and fuel at 6.009 per gallon it shows you can charge $0.98 per mile. If the load is a 700 mile run, you'll get $686. That will cover most of the fuel. When a broker says they'll pay X amount and its not any where near $3.00 or more, I'll start charging a fuel surcharge. Also have an understanding that if I am to haul their load I will be paid the FS along with the agreed rate. Just that simple. I can't starve to haul a load the same rate 2 or 3 yrs ago today. The cost to run my truck has gone up A LOT and I'm sure many of you know how much these things cost. I do agree we all need to stick together and demand that we get paid more money to haul the same load we did last year or the year before. I wish the best for all of us!

Replied on Tue, Mar 08, 2022 at 08:28 AM CST
Quote: "I have a hard time wrapping my head around everything that is happening today. With fuel prices getting out of hand and brokers not wanting to pay a higher rate, I've decided I'm going to charge a fuel surcharge to make up the difference. I looked up the fuel surcharge chart that is good through 3-8-2022 and fuel at 6.009 per gallon it shows you can charge $0.98 per mile. If the load is a 700 mile run, you'll get $686. That will cover most of the fuel. When a broker says they'll pay X amount and its not any where near $3.00 or more, I'll start charging a fuel surcharge. Also have an understanding that if I am to haul their load I will be paid the FS along with the agreed rate. Just that simple. I can't starve to haul a load the same rate 2 or 3 yrs ago today. The cost to run my truck has gone up A LOT and I'm sure many of you know how much these things cost. I do agree we all need to stick together and demand that we get paid more money to haul the same load we did last year or the year before. I wish the best for all of us! "

I’m doing the same thing. I’m no longer working for anyone that isn’t willing to pay my rate plus a fuel surcharge. I’m not in business to subsidize anyone’s product so they can make the profit they see fit at my expense. Additionally, I’m not paying anyone a fee to pay me in 15 days.
Replied on Wed, Mar 09, 2022 at 05:26 PM CST

Very good point folks. Fuel surcharge. I never necessarily thought about that. We typically operate with an "all in" rate, which usually keeps us around four dollar a mile. I always try to keep any one helping with our loads around the same. Building a reputation for honesty and transparency is important to myself and my team. Whether or not that will pay off, who knows. But that's the principles we operate off of. So all those things considered, we have recently been receiving a FSC from several customers. The FSC flucuates drastically. Some pay .41% per load.....yes .41%, which is their current rate. Then you have others that are at "an industry standard" of .11%. No idea how these customers formulate their FSC, but it def helps us. I know our bottom dollar and top dollar operating cost and this FSC from all of them helps keeps us in the median range. So a FSC would be a good way to go. Do you all ask for a 3 to 3.50 per mile rate, then tack on the FSC? Or is the FSC factored into your rate? Surprisingly, not many people know much about FSC. Not to say I know any more than the next, but we have done some research the last few years and really found a sweet spot of 3.50 to 4 a mile plus FSC. What FSC rate or graph to go off is another question. Seems wild to see the fact we request and typically are obliged with 3.50 to 4 a mile. Then I see other folks running the same freight for 2.25 or 2.50 thinking they are making a killing. IDK....very bass ackwards in the industry. I'm sure some of you old timers would say the same happened in your yonger days. I'm no spring chicken, but not a newbie. So those veterned opinions on how you operated back before large scale/online brokering started occuring, would be appreciated. Thanks again to all.

Replied on Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 01:10 AM CST
Is there a difference between inflation, and prices rising for the middle class strictly from large companies with no competition increasing their profit margin during opportunistic situations???
Replied on Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 01:10 AM CST
Quote: "In my honest opinion I think some of these brokers if not a bunch took contracts on their loads and are not willing to renegotiate them. Having said that we have been having plenty of conversations this past week of revisiting rates and best I can tell ya is it doesn’t hurt to walk away from the table. Any smart operator knows his per mile costs are and what he needs to be at to be profitable and not only that just to see down the line where his equipment replacement costs are going to be in the future. These brokers offering 2 dollar a mile freight do not touch it period even 2.50 is not worth touching personally we have picked up a cpl deals here as of late that are in the 3.60 range and if it’s under 3 by much we will not even give it a look. The world has changed every last running cost has went up by a minimum of 30% some cases 50% so to remain profitable 3 bucks has to be the new magic number in my opinion."

3 bucks?? Multiply that 3 by 2
Replied on Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 04:24 PM CST
+ 2
Quote: "3 bucks?? Multiply that 3 by 2"

I own my truck. A broker sent out a mass email wanting to know what would be a good rate for a lane he just picked up. I talked to him for about 2 hrs explaining to him how we look at things on our side of the table. I even sent him copies of last months fuel reciptes and looked up what prices are now at the same locations, I could hear his jaw drop. You can go to the truck stop websites, punch in a certain location and it will tell you what the fuel price is at the time it was posted. I told him right now the word is that by the end of summer fuel is going to be up to $8.00 or more. I dont know how true that is but it wont surprise me if it does get that high! He needed to start paying around $4.50 a mile and work up to at least $6.00 a mile + by that time. I'm not sure but I think I got 1 broker to actually pay attention when I explained it to him. We'll see....

Replied on Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 01:17 PM CST
Quote: "I have a hard time wrapping my head around everything that is happening today. With fuel prices getting out of hand and brokers not wanting to pay a higher rate, I've decided I'm going to charge a fuel surcharge to make up the difference. I looked up the fuel surcharge chart that is good through 3-8-2022 and fuel at 6.009 per gallon it shows you can charge $0.98 per mile. If the load is a 700 mile run, you'll get $686. That will cover most of the fuel. When a broker says they'll pay X amount and its not any where near $3.00 or more, I'll start charging a fuel surcharge. Also have an understanding that if I am to haul their load I will be paid the FS along with the agreed rate. Just that simple. I can't starve to haul a load the same rate 2 or 3 yrs ago today. The cost to run my truck has gone up A LOT and I'm sure many of you know how much these things cost. I do agree we all need to stick together and demand that we get paid more money to haul the same load we did last year or the year before. I wish the best for all of us! "

Is there a website for the fuel sucharge rate?

Replied on Sat, Apr 02, 2022 at 11:10 AM CST
Quote: "Is there a website for the fuel sucharge rate?"

Replied on Sat, Apr 02, 2022 at 11:11 AM CST

We do tankers, and hazmat a lot of the time. The way we base our rates is double what the market will bare on other specialized eqiupment plus FSC. The reson why it's double the rate is because we just expect 50% empty miles, sometimes it 's even more than that, sometimes less, so our rate for all miles is similar to specialized freight, but we do about half loaded. Our FSC chart starts at $3.00 per gallon and is 15%, it goes up .5% for every .05 cents of fuel price increase. The most we've been paid is 36%, but I just email the chart to my customers. Some really balk at it, some have seen similar and we just negotiate. I am not trying to take advantage of anyone, but this is a business. Without profit we can't perform a necesarry service. With profit we can have nice equipment, and keep good drivers. Every bit of that is a service to our customers, something that someone doing it cheaper will not be able to provide long term.

Replied on Sun, Apr 03, 2022 at 06:14 AM CST
+ 1
I book for tankers. And my rates from brokers are in alignment with current inflation. I’m booking high rates with high fuel surcharges. I am delivering on safety and customer service .
Replied on Sun, Apr 03, 2022 at 10:25 AM CST
+ 1
Quote: "I book for tankers. And my rates from brokers are in alignment with current inflation. I’m booking high rates with high fuel surcharges. I am delivering on safety and customer service ."

What are "high rates and high fuel surcharges" in numbers? Your vague description is subjective based on what you think "high" means. You would sound much more convincing if you talk specifics.

Replied on Mon, Apr 04, 2022 at 09:19 AM CST
Quote: "This is the chart I use. Fuel Surcharge Chart - Cheeseman Transport"

Hmm. According to that chart, their fsc at today's fuel price is more than my entire fuel cost per mile.