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Forum: SHOW US THE DATA
Posted Thu, Feb 07 2019 04:14 PM CST 2 Likes
DAVE WINTERS
DWT TRUCKING
CLEARWATER, MN

Posts: 536
Recently we have seen news articles that say there was no safety benefit from ELD's, that accidents in fact went up. While I believe this to be the case, it would be interesting to see the data from the peer groups that have had a exemption during the same time frame, such as the live stock industry. I believe that would reinforce the case against ELD's. When you start to search for truck crash data for 2018, nothing comes up for the USA, however Canadian data from the OPP comes up and shows crashes to be up 800% for the Northeastern section. I can't help but wonder how many of those Canadian carriers had ELD's installed to cross the border and be compliant while operating on our side of the border. REPLY
Posted Fri, Feb 08 2019 07:47 AM CST 2 Likes
TONY JOHNSON
BIG T
Whitney, NE

Posts: 26

I'm not so sure ELD s were intended to increase truck safety. More like big business leveling the playing field. Forcing owner ops to be less competitive. The mandate has noticably put more trucks on the roads in daytime hours, how can that be safer? If we are talking about increasing truck safety, then let's educate the public.

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Posted Fri, Feb 08 2019 07:47 AM CST
DONALD KEIFER
RUFFIAN ENTERPRISES
Des Moines, IA

Posts: 46
watch heavy rescue 401 and you will get all your answers as far as Canada is concerned...... however I to would be interested in seeing the report but only when it contains how much of it was from large fleet carriers and at least then maybe just maybe we could put together an idea of how much of those accidents has to to with training we already know most of them are caused by the other party though just a thought REPLY
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Posted Fri, Feb 08 2019 08:14 AM CST 5 Likes
JOHN BURCAW
DANA
Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 5
The eld's do not have enough flexibility built in. For example Just two nights I had plenty of time to get to the customer but ran into heavy fog and had to reduce my speed to 50 so that I ended up running out of time 20 minutes from the customer. If i where to take my 10 break I would not be able to make my 7:00 appointment! Also what gets my goat is when fmcsa and Dot preaches safety and passes HOS regs then closes down rest area's without replacing with another! I could give you tons of pictures of nearly every rest area where trucks are over flowing into the on and off ramps. Every time a new truck stop opens up its filled to capacity immediately every night! Now tell me where did those truckers go before it opened! That's right, they had to keep on driving tired and spending time looking for a safe place! Their talk of safety is a load of BS! Another example... Why are the breakdown lanes so narrow or nonexistent that truck repair crews are forced to stick out into traffic just to change a driver's side tire?! Same thing happens to the police when they pull someone over! Now add ice and snow or rain and fog and it's just asking for a huge catastrophe! I don't want to hear about another law being passed for "Our Safety" until they actually MAKE the roads safer to travel!!
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Posted Sun, Feb 10 2019 07:35 AM CST
ANDREW WENGER
AWTRANSPORTATIONLLC
Tampa, FL

Posts: 74
exactly that is what every driver wants [ even the ones with flip flops and jogging shorts ] sorry that wasnt nice but we all want safer highways. i say pull the plug on fmsca and dont fund em and use the money to open rest areas and widen shoulders on some roads. problem solved. what did you do in that last 20 min that you didnt make it to your stop? just curious REPLY
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Posted Sun, Feb 10 2019 07:36 AM CST 1 Like
DALE HERMANS
HERMANS FARM
Milbank, SD

Posts: 139
I think that it has been pretty obvious that the HOS or e logs have harmed safety more than help. I listened to an interesting interview with Mike Rowe, the dirty jobs guy. He stated that the most dangerous crosswalks in the US are the crosswalks that have a lit sign, telling someone when it is safe to walk across the street. His point was, the lit up cross walk sign trains people to not LOOK at anything but the sign before walking, therefore, if you rely on the sign, you get killed by a person running a stop light. I thought that was a great comparison to fmcsa safety guidelines. We have taken away the human ability to judge when my human brain is fatigued, because it doesn't matter if I didn't sleep well last night, all that matters is the daily cycle of that clock. We are taking the human OUT OF BEING HUMAN. Millions of years of experience and evolution has tought us how to be good at staying alive and keeping others alive, and HOS and ELD cripples that, on top of crippling work ethic.

Dave, I believe we will never get to see any real data. We will never get to see an un-skewed statistic on livestock haulers. I don't know the actual statistic so don't concentrate on the stat, it's just an example....I thought I read somewhere that a few years ago, the actual percent of accidents in the trucking industry that are related to fatigue are around 2 percent, again I could be wrong, but regardless, how many of those accidents are legitimately due to fatigue, and how many accidents were RULED fatigue by a court because someone was 56 minutes over on HOS??? Was this actually fatigue? Or is it just ruled fatigue because HOS makes a lawyer's job easier, not a case of physically being tired?

I think it's important to stand up against this crap. But how? Black smoke matter looks like one gigantic unified verbal MMA fight. I hate to say it because everyone definitely deserves to have their opinion and stand up for it, but any trucker in support of these HOS and ELD are just plain lazy. I think they feel guilty when hard nosed work ethic beats them. And support of HOS is easier than just plain getting to work! Yeah I've heard the argument that they hope rates go up, so supporting hour limitations can hopefully make it so you don't HAVE TO run the clock out every day....well, my goal from the second I leave my family is, get back here as quickly as possible. If I got paid 10 bucks a mile, I'd still run the clock out every day just to get home and be with the family Friday Saturday and Sunday. I've done well the last year trucking, it was my first year. I'm a failed farmer, dealing with getting kicked out of banks, un manageable farm debt and trucking is digging me out. Work ethic is digging me out, and if I see truckers in favor of these hours, I believe they are self conscious of their own work ethic and I think they are a great target. I will aim for their customers.
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Posted Sun, Feb 10 2019 11:25 AM CST
DAVE WINTERS
DWT TRUCKING
CLEARWATER, MN

Posts: 536
Black smoke don't matter, bloodshed matters. Or it used too, at least according to the media, who has been strangely silent over the rise in accidents since the ELD. Yes we read about it in trucking publications, but the mainstream news media is nowhere to be found on the topic? Perhaps becuase they don't want the public to know that they endorsed ELD's? Those responsible for the ELD are in fact guilty of murder, and at the very least should be forced to face the surviving family members of those who lost a loved one, to a truck equipped with a ELD. Trucking is not a one size fits all operation, that will never change, and the government is never going to allow each segment to create their own HOS, it would be too confusing for the enforcement community (CVSA is already complaining about too many exemptions). So when they finally come up with a new HOS, it will likely be one tailored to work for the most difficult segment of the industry like livestock, and that standard will applied to all of us, a one size fits all HOS model. So if livestock haulers can work 18 hours a day, everyone else will be working 18 hours a day, because the shippers and brokers will use any opportunity to maximize productivity, and earning potential. Reward $$$ through productivity, capitalism and free markets at work. All of the drivers who supported the ELD because they didn't want to work, are in for a BIG SURPRISE! REPLY
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Posted Mon, Feb 11 2019 07:56 AM CST
DEAN HUGHSON
WALK-WAY TRANSPORT
WINTHROP, IA

Posts: 128
DO NOT FORGET the level playing field aspect of the ELD mandate. Big corporate worked on it for years. It has been astonishing and sad to see so many allow themselves to herded like cattle. Crazy unnatural behavior. REPLY
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Posted Mon, Feb 11 2019 07:56 AM CST
PETE WENGER
PETE WENGER TRUCKING LLC
Manheim, PA

Posts: 16
There is no level of safety involved with the regulations involved in the transportation industry. Not to change the subject but a few years back I was weighed on the shoulder of a busy interstate by 3 officers toting portables. My conclusion was the enforcement officers don't value there life to do such actions and give me a $48 ticket. happy truckin. REPLY
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Posted Mon, Feb 11 2019 08:09 AM CST
DEAN HUGHSON
WALK-WAY TRANSPORT
WINTHROP, IA

Posts: 128
Originally Posted by: PETE WENGER
Quote: "There is no level of safety involved with the regulations involved in the transportation industry. Not to change the subject but a few years back I was weighed on the shoulder of a busy interstate by 3 officers toting portables. My conclusion was the enforcement officers don't value there life to do such actions and give me a $48 ticket. happy truckin."

I had a lane violation in Atlanta kinda like that. I was up against the guard rail and on the white line. I wouldn't get out of the truck. The fool said he would stand there to protect me from the traffic. I climbed out the right side and over the rail and stood in front of my truck.
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