IM NOT SAYING ITS CHEAPER TO RUN YOUR TRUCK BASED ON REGION AND COMMODITY. FUEL PRICES ARE DIFFERENT IN REGIONS. COST OF GOODS SOLD IN DIFFERENT REGIONS ARENT THE SAME IN EVERY REGION SO AND SO ON. FUEL IS ONE OF THE LARGER COST TO OPERATE MY COMPANY ALONG WITH WAGES & MAINTENANCE. THEN COME TAXES INSURANCE SO ON AN SO ON. NOW FROM WHAT I HAVE READ ON THIS FORUM FUEL & MAINTENANCE IS YOUR BIGGEST COST WHEN YOU ARE RUNNING YOUR EQUIPMENT FOR THAT KIND OF RATE 1-2 PER MI. AND BEING DETAINED AT THE FOB OR RECEIVING END DOESNT MAKE THINGS BETTER. WE GET PAID FOR OUR DETENTION TIME AND ITS IN EVERY AGREEMENT WE MAKE WITH OUR CUSTOMERS. BUT WE RARELY COME ACROSS LOADS THAT HOLD US UP MORE THAN 2 HRS. I KNOW YOUR QUESTION WASNT ABOUT WHAT IT COST TRUCKERS TO OPERATE BUT WHAT IT COST SHIPPERS TO OPERATE. MY QUESTION TO YOU IS THIS WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT IT COST THAT SHIPPER TO OPERATE NOT BEING AN ASSHOLE. UNLESS YOU ARE IN DIRECT COMPETITION WITH THAT SHIPPER WHICH YOU ARENT BECAUSE THEY ARE CONTRACTING YOUR SERVICES TO HAUL THIER GOODS WHY DOES THAT MATTER. I DO NOT A MANUFACTURE NOR DISTRIBUTE ANY PRODUCTS OF ANY KIND I PROVIDE A SERVICE SO I CANT TELL YOU WHAT IT COST A SHIPPER TO OPERATE AND I DONT THINK YOU CAN NOR ANYONE ELSE CAN TELL A SOUL WHAT IT COST ANY COMPANY THAT SHIPS ANY COMMODITY WHAT IT ACTUALLY COST THAT COMPANY TO OPERATE. AT THE END OF THIS POST I WILL GET INTO COMMODITIES AND REGIONS. BUT RIGHT NOW IM GOING THROUGH WHAT YOU POSTED AND WANT TO RESPOND ACCORDINGLY. NOW THE SUPPLY AND DEMAND THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUPPLY OR DEMAND FOR THE COMMODITIES YOU HAUL. YOU ARE SAYING THAT SUPPLY AND DEMAND ONLY KICKS IN WHEN THERE IS A SHORTAGE OF TRUCKS TO HAUL THE LOADS. THAT JUST MEANS THERE IS A DEMAND FOR DRIVERS. I LOOK AT THE SUPPLY AND DEMAND FOR THE COMMODITIES WE HAUL. WHEN THERE IS A LARGE SUPPLY OF A CERTAIN COMMODITY IT MEANS THAT ITS NOT SELLING AT THAT MOMENT. IN ORDER FOR YOU TO GET THIS PRODUCT OFF YOUR SHELF OUT OF YOUR BINS OR WHERE EVER IT IS STORED YOU MAY HAVE TO CUT THE PRICES. IF YOU ARE CUTTING PRICES YOUR MARGINS JUST WENT DOWN. SO IN EFFECT YOUR COST OF GOODS JUST WENT UP. NOW THESE KIND OF HITS FLOW DOWN TO OTHER EXPENSES LIKE FREIGHT. SO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT SHIPPER IS ASKING HIS OR HERSELF. WHAT CAN WE DO TO GET BACK ON TRACK TO OUR SPECIFIC GOAL WHICH IS HITTING THAT MARGIN THATS GOING TO CONTINUE TO ALLOW THAT COMPANY TO GROW. WELL FOR EXAMPLE WE WERE PAYING 250 PER MI. WE ONLY CAN PAY 2 PER MILE ON THESE LOADS TO REACH OUR TARGET. OR THEY CAN JUST SIMPLY CONTINUE TO PAY YOU THE SAME RATE ABSORB THE LOSS AND KEEP MOVING. HOW FAMILIAR DOES THAT SOUND. ITS JUST THAT THE SHOE IS ON THE OTHER FOOT IN YOUR SITUATION. NOW WHEN A COMMODITY IS IN DEMAND THERE ISNT A LARGE SUPPLY FOR IT AT THAT MOMENT. PRICES GO UP . FOR EXAMPLE STEEL. WE HAUL TO A LOT OF STEEL MILLS . WHEN THERE IS A DEMAND TO PRODUCE STEEL, ALL THE RAW MATERIALS NEEDED TO PRODUCE STEEL ARE IN DEMAND AS WELL. SCRAP FERRO ALLOYS LIME SO ON AND SO ON. THE PRICE TO PURCHASE THESE PRODUCTS GO UP THE RATE TO SHIP THESE PRODUCTS ARE GOOD AT THAT TIME OF DEMAND. NOW AS FAR AS PROJECTING LOSS TIME WE DONT HAVE TO ALL OUR CUSTOMERS KNOW THAT IF OUR EQUIPMENT SITS OVER 2 HRS WITHOUT BEING LOADED WE CHARGE $50 PER HOUR AFTER THE FIRST 2 HRS. $20 PER HOUR GOES TO THE DRIVER THE REST TO US. YOU HAVE A CHOICE IN ANYTHING YOU DO YOU CAN SIT THERE AND CONTIUE TO LOSE MONEY OR YOU CAN MOVE ON TO ANOTHER SHIPPER OR JUST BOUNCE HOME AS YOU SAY,BUT THE CHOICE IS YOURS. BUT WHEN THESE TYPE OF AGREEMENTS ARENT MADE IN THE BEGINING YOU ARE KILLING YOURSELF SO TO SPEAK. IF I WERE YOU I WOULD BILL THEM FOR DETENTION TIME ANYWAY JUST TO SEE IF THEY WILL PAY IT. WHEN THEY GET THAT INVOICE THEY WILL CALL YOU AND THATS WHEN YOU EXPLAIN WHY YOU ARE CHARGING THEM. IF THEY DONT PAY YOU YOUR DETENTION TIME AND ONLY PAY YOUR FREIGHT WHAT CAN YOU DO. AND YOU CAN ACCOUNT FOR THESE TYPE OF ISSUES. ITS CALLED "ALLOWANCE FOR DOUBTFUL ACCOUNT". YOU PUT MONEY ASIDE FOR SITUATIONS LIKE MAINTENACE RIGHT. WELL YOU SHOULD ALSO HAVE MONEY SET ASIDE FOR BAD DEBTS LIKE WHEN CUSTOMERS DONT PAY DETENTION TIME THAT WAS BILLED. WHAT THIS DOES IS ALLOWS YOU TO DEBIT THE DOUBTFUL ACCOUNT CREDIT YOUR CASH ACCOUNT AND WRITE OFF THE BAD DEBTS AT THE END OF THE YR OR WHENEVER YOU FILE YOUR TAXES. AS FAR AS WASHOUTS GO SHIPPERS HAVE THERE RULES WE HAUL LOADS FOR A CERTAIN COMPANY NOT GOING TO MENTION THIER NAME THAT REQUIRE WASHOUT DEPENDING ONLY ON THE LAST PRODUCT HAULED. BUT THEY REPAY US FOR THOSE WASHOUT FEES. SO WHEN YOU ASK HOW CAN I PROJECT YRS DOWN THE ROAD WITH ALL THE LOST REVENUE YOURE TALKING ABOUT IS BECAUSE WE ACCOUNT FOR THEM AHEAD OF TIME. WE STRUCTURED AGREEMENTS ABOUT DETENTION TIME WASHOUTS AND ALL. WHEN YOU HAVE A COMPANY THAT YOU WANT TO GROW YOU MUST THINK ABOUT THESE THINGS AND COME UP WITH A SOLUTION TO COUNTER THEM BECAUSE THEY WILL COME UP. NOW TO GET TO THE COMMODITIES AND REGIONS. LIVE EXAMPLE. WE HAUL A LOT OF RAW MATERIALS TO STEEL MILLS. 1 AREA IS IN VA THE OTHER AREA IS IN MD AND ANOTHER AREA IS IN PA. THIS IS JUST A COUPLE LANES WE RUN. ALL THESE LOADS ARE GOING TO VARIOUS LOACATIONS MOSTLY TO IN. NOW THE U.S IS BROKEN INTO 5 REGIONS WHEN IT COMES TO TRUCKING. NORTHEAST, SOUTHEAST, MIDWEST, SOUTHCENTRAL, AND THE WEST.MD&PA IS CONSIDERED THE NORTHEAST. WE GET GREAT RATES OUT OF THAT REGION JUST ON THE FACT OF WHAT IS COST TO JUST BE IN THAT REGION. FUEL IS WAY HIGHER EVERYTHING IS WAY HIGHER THAN THE SOUTH EAST. WE MAY SEE 320 PER MI IN THE NE AND ONLY 250 IN THE SE. WHY? THE COST ASSOCIATED WITH THAT REGION IS FAR LESS THAT THAT OF THE NE. NOW WHEN IT COMES TO COMMODITIES AND KNOW WHAT COMMODITIES ARE IN DEMAND. JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THE BALTIC DRY INDEX. ON THERE YOU CAN SEE THE TONNAGE OF CERTAIN RAW MATERIALS THAT APPLY TO YOU BEING SHIPPED IN TO THE US. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN. YOU CAN TELL IF THERE IS A DEMAND FOR THAT PRODUCT(S) OR NOT. YOU CAN LOOK INTO THE COMMODITIES A LITTLE DEEPER AND SEE WHAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY DOING ON THE MARKET BY LOOKING IN TO FUTURES WHERE THE COMMODITIES THAT WE MOSTLY HAUL ARE BEING TRADED. ITS ALL ABOUT BUYERS ND SELLERS SUPLY AND DEMAND. I DONT KNOW WHAT CALCULATOR YOU ARE USING TO CALCULATE ANYTHING BUT ITS GOING TO TAKE MORE THAT JUST A CALCULATOR TO BE SUCESSFUL IN TRUCKING. THE PROBLEM IS THAT THESE NEW COMPANIES THAT POP UP DONT REALLY KNOW WHATS GOING ON IN THE INDUSTRY. THINKING ITS COOL TO SAY ILL DO IT FOR 2 PER MILE WHEN IT ACUALLY IS COSTING THEM THAT MUCH TO OPERATE. KNOW WHAT IT COST YOU TO OPERATE. UNDERSTAND YOUR MARKET MAKE CALCULATED CHOICES. AND ADJUST WHEN NEEDED.

Dwayne here is point two: Supply and demand do not dictate as to my equipment moving any cheaper, we make sure that we have enough money to deadhead home vs taking the cheap freight, thereby leaving it behind. The shipper will come up on their price when they can't find a truck to move the load, whenever we are rolling into a poophole for freight we charge enough to pay for the bounce home or we won't go there in the first place.

Point 4:

Dwayne you said:

AT THE END OF THIS POST I WILL GET INTO COMMODITIES AND REGIONS. BUT RIGHT NOW IM GOING THROUGH WHAT YOU POSTED AND WANT TO RESPOND ACCORDINGLY. NOW THE SUPPLY AND DEMAND THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUPPLY OR DEMAND FOR THE COMMODITIES YOU HAUL. YOU ARE SAYING THAT SUPPLY AND DEMAND ONLY KICKS IN WHEN THERE IS A SHORTAGE OF TRUCKS TO HAUL THE LOADS. THAT JUST MEANS THERE IS A DEMAND FOR DRIVERS. I LOOK AT THE SUPPLY AND DEMAND FOR THE COMMODITIES WE HAUL. WHEN THERE IS A LARGE SUPPLY OF A CERTAIN COMMODITY IT MEANS THAT ITS NOT SELLING AT THAT MOMENT. IN ORDER FOR YOU TO GET THIS PRODUCT OFF YOUR SHELF OUT OF YOUR BINS OR WHERE EVER IT IS STORED YOU MAY HAVE TO CUT THE PRICES. IF YOU ARE CUTTING PRICES YOUR MARGINS JUST WENT DOWN. SO IN EFFECT YOUR COST OF GOODS JUST WENT UP. NOW THESE KIND OF HITS FLOW DOWN TO OTHER EXPENSES LIKE FREIGHT. SO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT SHIPPER IS ASKING HIS OR HERSELF. WHAT CAN WE DO TO GET BACK ON TRACK TO OUR SPECIFIC GOAL WHICH IS HITTING THAT MARGIN THATS GOING TO CONTINUE TO ALLOW THAT COMPANY TO GROW. WELL FOR EXAMPLE WE WERE PAYING 250 PER MI. WE ONLY CAN PAY 2 PER MILE ON THESE LOADS TO REACH OUR TARGET. OR THEY CAN JUST SIMPLY CONTINUE TO PAY YOU THE SAME RATE ABSORB THE LOSS AND KEEP MOVING. HOW FAMILIAR DOES THAT SOUND. ITS JUST THAT THE SHOE IS ON THE OTHER FOOT IN YOUR SITUATION. NOW WHEN A COMMODITY IS IN DEMAND THERE ISNT A LARGE SUPPLY FOR IT AT THAT MOMENT. PRICES GO UP

I am going to answer your question with few questions of my own.

Would the shipper have to absorb their cost to operate their equipment regardless of the market value of their widgets?

Why do they expect us to eat it for them when they made the mistake?

Why are these supposed hurting shippers and brokers posting all time profits this year?

Are you saying it is ok to lower your price because of their failure to manage their supply and demand?

How does that once again reflect the supply and demand and cost of what it takes to move product on their own truck?

KNOW WHAT IT COST YOU TO OPERATE. UNDERSTAND YOUR MARKET MAKE CALCULATED CHOICES. AND ADJUST WHEN NEEDED.

I am going to agree with you on that one there, but add you need to know what the shippers cost would be as well so you are not leaving any salad on the table, unless you don't like salad.

Would the shipper have to absorb their cost to operate their equipment regardless of the market value of their widgets?

The answer is Yes, no matter what their widget is doing the cost to run their trucks would not change.

Why do they expect us to eat it for them when they made the mistake?

Because truckers have fell for the whole supply and demand theory that really does not apply to their services, unless rule A above exists. They should have enough sense to bounce to a better market and leave the crap behind, they should learn to charge more to go into a hard pressed market and get round trip money.

Why are these supposed hurting shippers and brokers posting all time profits this year?

They have learned to not only tell the truckers, brokers that the rates should be lowered to 1980 rates, but to tell the farmers as well that their grain is worth less. This is called perceived value ( I will explain how that works in a later post if any are interested).

Are you saying it is ok to lower your price because of their failure to manage their supply and demand?

So far the answer would be Yes, you believe that we should lower our price regardless of whether we can sustain our margins or not. That sir, is just not good business practices, and if you continue along that train of thought we will see your MC# being shut down within the next two or three years.

How does that once again reflect the supply and demand and cost of what it takes to move product on their own truck?

Their widget and supply and demand issues do not effect the cost of what it takes to move product on their own truck!!!!

I hope you are beginning to understand the importance for all truckers, brokers to get this concept, we are being played against one another causing rife by those that started this in the first place. The honest truckers, and the honest brokers are being hung out to dry and expected to take the hit while corporate America's profits continue to rise. I have seen this cycle many times before in other widgets I have been involved in, back then I did not care because I was the one making all then money. I used to be a greedmonster, now I am not, I started reading about our nation and how our founding fathers desired for all to have an opportunity to succeed in their pursuit of happiness. These guys were all wealthy and could have just continued on making more and more money for themselves passing the taxes onto the average working man. They did not, so I believe that this is our time to step up and say enough is enough, we are taking back what is ours, and quit feeding us the line of BS SUPPPLY AND DEMAND THEORY, FUEL PRICES ARE DOWN SO RATES ARE DOWN!!!!!