BUYING USED VS. BUYING NEW - Bulk Trucking Forum & Discussion Board & Bulkloads.com

{ "forumId": 24536, "postTypeId": 1, "postType": "Forum", "forumTitle": "BUYING USED VS. BUYING NEW", "forumContent": "We have been buying good used trucks in the $35,000-$45,000 range and deal with the expenses that come with used equipment. Can anyone offer knowledgable advice on if buying new trucks with a warranty ends up being cheaper in the long run then running used trucks? Thanks.", "forumContentHtml": "We have been buying good used trucks in the $35,000-$45,000 range and deal with the expenses that come with used equipment. Can anyone offer knowledgable advice on if buying new trucks with a warranty ends up being cheaper in the long run then running used trucks? Thanks.", "thumbUrl": "", "dateAdded": "2014-04-03T16:03:25Z", "lastPost": "2014-04-03T16:03:25Z", "views": 2843, "likes": 0, "dislikes": 1, "messageCount": 11, "premiumOnly": 0, "isfeatured": 0, "showInDays": -100, "showDate": "", "forumLink": "", "youtubeVideoId": "", "approved": 1, "active": 1, "alias": "buying-used-vs-buying-new", "forumUrl": "https://www.bulkloads.com/forum/buying-used-vs-buying-new/", "userId": 9977, "firstName": "PATRICK", "lastName": "BOUGHTON", "companyName": "LAKELAND ORGANICS, LLC", "email": "[email protected]", "city": "COLFAX", "state": "WI", "userCommentCount": 1, "userLikes": 1, "replies": [ { "replyId": 24619, "content": "I've thought on this along time, so decided to reply. I'm a young operator at 38 and have been doing this 10 years....so take my advice for what it's worth...free. I started with a beautiful 1995 KW T600 72\" Aerocab 3406E CAT, My folks purchased it with 350K in Dec '98 as an investment and I started driving it full time in Sept 2003. It had a rebuild at 850K before I started with it, and I ran it untill July of '07 to 1.2M. It was a good truck for us, it had been rebuilt from the radiator to the rear differential in the time we owned it. Maint costs were getting high, and it was a heavy truck. My father suggested I look for a new one. I could spec it light to increase revenue,. and keeping it out of the shop would also be a benefit. I ordered my first new T800 32\" Aerocab 475 ISX 13sp. in July '07. From the start we were plagued with emissions equipment issues. I owned the first one in the area, so Cummins learned on my truck as they went. At the time I also owned a '02 T800 daycab ISM 10 sp that I purchased used with 450K for a friend to drive. That truck served me well, and I sold it in Dec '08 with 750K to order another new one. This time a ultra light T660 with a 425 ISM, 10sp auto, 32\" Aerocab wide base tires, VIT, leather seats, gauges, etc. This is a fully loaded truck, yet it's stamp weight is 15K. Impressed with the performance of this truck, I traded the '08 on another twin sister '10 T660 in Nov 2009. My goal was simple, with proper specing of the truck, ie light weight, fuel efficient driveline...I could afford a new one over my old one. They haven't been without faults though. We have had emissions equipment issues, though not as bad as the '08. I have had repairs that warranty didn't cover. My plan was to trade them off at 5 years and order new again. I'm recently married for the first time and have a family, so I'm not interested in truck payments again anytime soon. With the cost of new equipment getting higher every year, I'll keep these awhile longer. Mine ('09) has 440K and ('10) that my uncle drives has 370K. I swore I'd never rebuild another truck, but I might very well do that on these. They are matched units and I know everything that's been done since new. My mechanic brought up a point. He thinks I made the right decision when I did. If I were to buy my trucks from a dealer today as used, I'd probably have $65-75K each in them. So in his opinion, I can afford to put alittle money in these over the next several years because they are in excellent repair and I won't have a payment. I wouldn't buy anything today (new or used) that I couldn't pay cash for, or have paid off in a year or two. The last 3 years here have been terrible.....so I'm glad we are just about done with equipment payments. \n \n As for a used truck.....you never know what you are getting. I've had decent luck with used in the past. Last year we had a good driver express an interest in running with us. My folks are debt free and needed a deduction. My fathers rationale was they would pay cash for a rig, and lease it to me. They would have the benefit of the deduction, and hopfully make a better return on the truck at the end of the year than on investments. Wanting to avoid the emissions issues I've had, they purchase a beautiful '06 T800 daycab with a 475 ISX and a 10sp. It was a Paclease truck with only 150K. Everything was going well and there was money in their account. Last week with 280K it spun a bearing and ruined the engine. Because of the age, Cummins will not stand behind it. So now it's getting a complete recon engine at $28K. It's a dissapointment to say the least. It's too nice of a truck to scrap, and isn't worth anythig with a shot engine. Thankfully the folks have the money to repair it, but as for them making anything on the deal now....it's probably not going to happen. We have our word to our driver to keep him in a job...and that we will do, even if it costs us.\n \n I'm to the point from a business standpoint, if buying for drivers, I'd rather purchase $25-30K \"disposable trucks\" Volvos or Freightliners......make them stand tall and maintain them religiously...when they get higher miles...sell them to a farmer right before they puke for $15K and get another one. \n \n A good friend and customer of mine has brokered and hauled his own grain for 30 years. Told me to become debt free as soon as possible. He said he used to buy trucks (cash) years ago with 250-300K miles and run them to around 650K. He'd sell them and find another low mileage used truck, paying around $12-15K difference. He runs 2 trucks today, both 10+ years old with over 1M miles each. So the economics of yesteryear don't pencil out well today. But in his case (and now mine too) being debt free with a reliable truck is more important than haveing a new one. \n", "contentHtml": "I've thought on this along time, so decided to reply. I'm a young operator at 38 and have been doing this 10 years....so take my advice for what it's worth...free. I started with a beautiful 1995 KW T600 72" Aerocab 3406E CAT, My folks purchased it with 350K in Dec '98 as an investment and I started driving it full time in Sept 2003. It had a rebuild at 850K before I started with it, and I ran it untill July of '07 to 1.2M. It was a good truck for us, it had been rebuilt from the radiator to the rear differential in the time we owned it. Maint costs were getting high, and it was a heavy truck. My father suggested I look for a new one. I could spec it light to increase revenue,. and keeping it out of the shop would also be a benefit. I ordered my first new T800 32" Aerocab 475 ISX 13sp. in July '07. From the start we were plagued with emissions equipment issues. I owned the first one in the area, so Cummins learned on my truck as they went. At the time I also owned a '02 T800 daycab ISM 10 sp that I purchased used with 450K for a friend to drive. That truck served me well, and I sold it in Dec '08 with 750K to order another new one. This time a ultra light T660 with a 425 ISM, 10sp auto, 32" Aerocab wide base tires, VIT, leather seats, gauges, etc. This is a fully loaded truck, yet it's stamp weight is 15K. Impressed with the performance of this truck, I traded the '08 on another twin sister '10 T660 in Nov 2009. My goal was simple, with proper specing of the truck, ie light weight, fuel efficient driveline...I could afford a new one over my old one. They haven't been without faults though. We have had emissions equipment issues, though not as bad as the '08. I have had repairs that warranty didn't cover. My plan was to trade them off at 5 years and order new again. I'm recently married for the first time and have a family, so I'm not interested in truck payments again anytime soon. With the cost of new equipment getting higher every year, I'll keep these awhile longer. Mine ('09) has 440K and ('10) that my uncle drives has 370K. I swore I'd never rebuild another truck, but I might very well do that on these. They are matched units and I know everything that's been done since new. My mechanic brought up a point. He thinks I made the right decision when I did. If I were to buy my trucks from a dealer today as used, I'd probably have $65-75K each in them. So in his opinion, I can afford to put alittle money in these over the next several years because they are in excellent repair and I won't have a payment. I wouldn't buy anything today (new or used) that I couldn't pay cash for, or have paid off in a year or two. The last 3 years here have been terrible.....so I'm glad we are just about done with equipment payments. \r\n \r\nAs for a used truck.....you never know what you are getting. I've had decent luck with used in the past. Last year we had a good driver express an interest in running with us. My folks are debt free and needed a deduction. My fathers rationale was they would pay cash for a rig, and lease it to me. They would have the benefit of the deduction, and hopfully make a better return on the truck at the end of the year than on investments. Wanting to avoid the emissions issues I've had, they purchase a beautiful '06 T800 daycab with a 475 ISX and a 10sp. It was a Paclease truck with only 150K. Everything was going well and there was money in their account. Last week with 280K it spun a bearing and ruined the engine. Because of the age, Cummins will not stand behind it. So now it's getting a complete recon engine at $28K. It's a dissapointment to say the least. It's too nice of a truck to scrap, and isn't worth anythig with a shot engine. Thankfully the folks have the money to repair it, but as for them making anything on the deal now....it's probably not going to happen. We have our word to our driver to keep him in a job...and that we will do, even if it costs us. \r\n \r\nI'm to the point from a business standpoint, if buying for drivers, I'd rather purchase $25-30K "disposable trucks" Volvos or Freightliners......make them stand tall and maintain them religiously...when they get higher miles...sell them to a farmer right before they puke for $15K and get another one. \r\n \r\nA good friend and customer of mine has brokered and hauled his own grain for 30 years. Told me to become debt free as soon as possible. He said he used to buy trucks (cash) years ago with 250-300K miles and run them to around 650K. He'd sell them and find another low mileage used truck, paying around $12-15K difference. He runs 2 trucks today, both 10+ years old with over 1M miles each. So the economics of yesteryear don't pencil out well today. But in his case (and now mine too) being debt free with a reliable truck is more important than haveing a new one. ", "parentReplyId": null, "thumbUrl": "", "avatarThumbUrl": "https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.bulkloads.com/user_files/profile/thumbs/default.png", "signUpDate": "2010-07-28", "dateAdded": "2014-05-30T06:08:21Z", "likes": 2, "dislikes": 0, "approved": 1, "userId": 2180, "firstName": "TRENT", "lastName": "MCCAIN", "companyName": "MCCAIN ENTERPRISES LLC", "email": "[email protected]", "city": "COLBY", "state": "KS", "userCommentCount": 62, "userLikes": 8, "userDislikes": 0, "links": [], "files": [], "iLike": 0, "iDislike": 0 }, { "replyId": 24620, "content": "Any more it's a hard decision.. Like the post above me.. When they switched over to the particulate trap set up, it was a disaster. And Cat just thought they could pay a penalty and go on.. We see where cat engines are today.. First I am a Cat man.. Until 2007 came out.. And now I wouldn't touch them. Cummins and all the other engine companies had a rough time with the new engines breaking down. Unfortunately this new engine requirement will be 50 state.. Probably within the next 5 years or so. Many ports all around the nation are requiring at least a particulate trap. when I'm slow and they need it, I will move trucks for a dealer.. Last Christmas I picked up 3-4 used ugg .. Swift trucks.. T 2000.. They rerated them and put the transmition back to a 13 speed. They all had about 350,000 and had the trap cleaned out. For about 45,000 bucks.. For the distance that I drove them they weren't to bad of a truck.. Now I have observed that the longer a truck sits, the more warning light there will be... I've come to the point that I don't worry about amber or orange lights.. They will come on and go off.. The one that gets my attention is the red ones.. I never have seen a red warning light.. All of these trucks were I believe 2010 models, so they are compliant in California but don't have the urea. And surprisingly most of the bugs were worked out.. The dealer gets these through PAC Car..so from driving those trucks for 500 miles plus they weren't all that bad. If you may be interested in one of these.. Swift is constantly upgrading their fleet.. You can find them down in phoenix, Az either at the KW dealer or their is another place that I picked one up at..and I bet swift keeps the truck in pretty good shape... They have different colors.. So if you aren't a white truck guy.. Your still in luck.. What did I really think about these? I would think hard about one of these over a newer or new truck.. This is just my observance on these used trucks.. Best of luck with your search.. Jeff", "contentHtml": "Any more it's a hard decision.. Like the post above me.. When they switched over to the particulate trap set up, it was a disaster. And Cat just thought they could pay a penalty and go on.. We see where cat engines are today.. First I am a Cat man.. Until 2007 came out.. And now I wouldn't touch them. Cummins and all the other engine companies had a rough time with the new engines breaking down. Unfortunately this new engine requirement will be 50 state.. Probably within the next 5 years or so. Many ports all around the nation are requiring at least a particulate trap. when I'm slow and they need it, I will move trucks for a dealer.. Last Christmas I picked up 3-4 used ugg .. Swift trucks.. T 2000.. They rerated them and put the transmition back to a 13 speed. They all had about 350,000 and had the trap cleaned out. For about 45,000 bucks.. For the distance that I drove them they weren't to bad of a truck.. Now I have observed that the longer a truck sits, the more warning light there will be... I've come to the point that I don't worry about amber or orange lights.. They will come on and go off.. The one that gets my attention is the red ones.. I never have seen a red warning light.. All of these trucks were I believe 2010 models, so they are compliant in California but don't have the urea. And surprisingly most of the bugs were worked out.. The dealer gets these through PAC Car..so from driving those trucks for 500 miles plus they weren't all that bad. If you may be interested in one of these.. Swift is constantly upgrading their fleet.. You can find them down in phoenix, Az either at the KW dealer or their is another place that I picked one up at..and I bet swift keeps the truck in pretty good shape... They have different colors.. So if you aren't a white truck guy.. Your still in luck.. What did I really think about these? I would think hard about one of these over a newer or new truck.. This is just my observance on these used trucks.. Best of luck with your search.. Jeff", "parentReplyId": null, "thumbUrl": "", "avatarThumbUrl": "https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.bulkloads.com/user_files/profile/thumbs/default.png", "signUpDate": "2010-11-12", "dateAdded": "2014-05-30T07:28:50Z", "likes": 0, "dislikes": 0, "approved": 1, "userId": 3078, "firstName": "JEFF", "lastName": "PEARSON", "companyName": "C & R TRUCKING INC", "email": "[email protected]", "city": "PAYSON", "state": "UT", "userCommentCount": 927, "userLikes": 225, "userDislikes": 94, "links": [], "files": [], "iLike": 0, "iDislike": 0 }, { "replyId": 24621, "content": "It's good to know that there are others wondering about the same subjects that I have been contemplating. I've been tossing around either total rebuild/used/glider/or new choice for quite a while. It's a hard sell to the bank about getting $30,000 to refurb a 12 year old truck. I've really never been a fan of used. My thoughts were leaning towards a glider, but my cynicism has me believing that the Feds will put a stop to these in the future, or making everybody put DPF filters on them. I am going with new, with a fiscal plan to pay it off within 3 years. It has been speced with plenty of extra warranty and I do have a good relationship with my dealer. Plus, they are telling me that the oil change intervals are 50,000, I'm planning on doing them @ 40,000 due to idle time from the pto. After chatting with the gentleman that runs the local Penske shop, I'm confident that things will be good. The company I am leased to has 6 newer cascadias in the fleet, and haven't had any issues that weren't resolved within a reasonable amount of time.", "contentHtml": "It's good to know that there are others wondering about the same subjects that I have been contemplating. I've been tossing around either total rebuild/used/glider/or new choice for quite a while. It's a hard sell to the bank about getting $30,000 to refurb a 12 year old truck. I've really never been a fan of used. My thoughts were leaning towards a glider, but my cynicism has me believing that the Feds will put a stop to these in the future, or making everybody put DPF filters on them. I am going with new, with a fiscal plan to pay it off within 3 years. It has been speced with plenty of extra warranty and I do have a good relationship with my dealer. Plus, they are telling me that the oil change intervals are 50,000, I'm planning on doing them @ 40,000 due to idle time from the pto. After chatting with the gentleman that runs the local Penske shop, I'm confident that things will be good. The company I am leased to has 6 newer cascadias in the fleet, and haven't had any issues that weren't resolved within a reasonable amount of time.", "parentReplyId": null, "thumbUrl": "", "avatarThumbUrl": "https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.bulkloads.com/user_files/profile/thumbs/default.png", "signUpDate": "2011-11-24", "dateAdded": "2014-05-30T18:07:07Z", "likes": 0, "dislikes": 0, "approved": 1, "userId": 5951, "firstName": "LARRY ", "lastName": "KEMP", "companyName": "MJL TRANSPORT", "email": "[email protected]", "city": "DUBUQUE", "state": "IA", "userCommentCount": 8, "userLikes": 0, "userDislikes": 0, "links": [], "files": [], "iLike": 0, "iDislike": 0 }, { "replyId": 24622, "content": "\n you no if your gonna buy a new one get the freightliner with the new detroit dd15 or dd13 for fuel mailage and load it up with all the warranty you can get on it. Mine is a new 2015 freightliner coronado with the dd15 505hp and i love it no more worries about repairs if it beaks it gets towed at there expence not mine and i dont have to pay for the repair either. ", "contentHtml": "\r\n\tyou no if your gonna buy a new one get the freightliner with the new detroit dd15 or dd13 for fuel mailage and load it up with all the warranty you can get on it. Mine is a new 2015 freightliner coronado with the dd15 505hp and i love it no more worries about repairs if it beaks it gets towed at there expence not mine and i dont have to pay for the repair either. ", "parentReplyId": null, "thumbUrl": "", "avatarThumbUrl": "https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.bulkloads.com/user_files/profile/thumbs/default.png", "signUpDate": "2012-10-14", "dateAdded": "2014-05-31T04:31:18Z", "likes": 0, "dislikes": 1, "approved": 1, "userId": 8842, "firstName": "Jody", "lastName": "Shellito", "companyName": "JODY SHELLITO", "email": "[email protected]", "city": "Gering", "state": "NE", "userCommentCount": 36, "userLikes": 69, "userDislikes": 36, "links": [], "files": [], "iLike": 0, "iDislike": 0 }, { "replyId": 24623, "content": "As with everything we all have different opinions. I live in Az. The CARB thing is a problem, but that said I buy used. I bought a 2001 KW new and if that truck and warranty were still available I would do it again, but the warranties on the new stuff don't cover enough for me. Also I know to many people that have lost their dream because they couldn't stay out of the shop. Here is a HUGE difference for me VS many others. I do my own work including paint and body. It is the only way I can make it. If I had to depend on a mechanic for anything more than electrical I would be done. Not being able to do my own repairs would make me insane. I however believe in buying Kw and Pete, although I really don't like driving the pete. If I was going to upgrade with big payments I would do the Glider thing, hands down no other option. But really if you CAN do your own repairs there is a lot of 99-2007 stuff for good prices that will clean up and be great. The other thing for us is that we bought an ISX. It about broke me. That 05 W900 now has an E cat and now makes money. If I bought gliders I would probably build myself, but either way I could maintain the truck and that is most important to me. I also have 2 ACCERTS. We get along good with them. If it wasn't a big deal I would make Single turbos out of them, but we have had good luck with them. We have no luck with driver taking any better care of one truck over another. However, \"in my opinion\", I feel that my Paccar stuff holds value and is quieter than the Freightliner stuff. Also I am a dedicated CAT guy and that dictates alot of my decisions. I also get great support from my KW dealer. It makes a huge difference for getting the right parts. \n \n The guys with new trucks have one advantage. They park on the weekend at the dealership or home. I am in the shop instead of kicked back, but it is a personal decision. .\n \n Art Pfluger", "contentHtml": "As with everything we all have different opinions. I live in Az. The CARB thing is a problem, but that said I buy used. I bought a 2001 KW new and if that truck and warranty were still available I would do it again, but the warranties on the new stuff don't cover enough for me. Also I know to many people that have lost their dream because they couldn't stay out of the shop. Here is a HUGE difference for me VS many others. I do my own work including paint and body. It is the only way I can make it. If I had to depend on a mechanic for anything more than electrical I would be done. Not being able to do my own repairs would make me insane. I however believe in buying Kw and Pete, although I really don't like driving the pete. If I was going to upgrade with big payments I would do the Glider thing, hands down no other option. But really if you CAN do your own repairs there is a lot of 99-2007 stuff for good prices that will clean up and be great. The other thing for us is that we bought an ISX. It about broke me. That 05 W900 now has an E cat and now makes money. If I bought gliders I would probably build myself, but either way I could maintain the truck and that is most important to me. I also have 2 ACCERTS. We get along good with them. If it wasn't a big deal I would make Single turbos out of them, but we have had good luck with them. We have no luck with driver taking any better care of one truck over another. However, "in my opinion", I feel that my Paccar stuff holds value and is quieter than the Freightliner stuff. Also I am a dedicated CAT guy and that dictates alot of my decisions. I also get great support from my KW dealer. It makes a huge difference for getting the right parts. \r\n \r\nThe guys with new trucks have one advantage. They park on the weekend at the dealership or home. I am in the shop instead of kicked back, but it is a personal decision. . \r\n \r\nArt Pfluger", "parentReplyId": null, "thumbUrl": "", "avatarThumbUrl": "https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.bulkloads.com/user_files/profile/thumbs/default.png", "signUpDate": "2010-12-05", "dateAdded": "2014-05-31T04:41:31Z", "likes": 0, "dislikes": 0, "approved": 1, "userId": 3266, "firstName": "ROSE", "lastName": "PFLUGER", "companyName": "ROAD WARRIORS TRANSPORTATION INC", "email": "[email protected]", "city": "MORRISTOWN", "state": "AZ", "userCommentCount": 802, "userLikes": 10, "userDislikes": 4, "links": [], "files": [], "iLike": 0, "iDislike": 0 }, { "replyId": 24624, "content": "Well we run older trucks all Petes not because they are the best, but because they are the easyest to work on. One is 1983-359 one 1986-359 one 1994-379\n nothing newer than 1999, all Cats. Tryed Cummins not bad engines but nickel, and dime. We Work on our own trucks at our own Shop. They use alittle more\n Fuel but we do not have to give all the profit to the repair Shops and never have to be toed in! As for CA. and Carb, We need to get behind OOIDA(they have a law suit agin CA to let us run in the state). and I Agree with OOIDA, \n if we only run a limited amount of miles in the State of CA.like 10000, or less we should not have to comply!", "contentHtml": "Well we run older trucks all Petes not because they are the best, but because they are the easyest to work on. One is 1983-359 one 1986-359 one 1994-379 \r\nnothing newer than 1999, all Cats. Tryed Cummins not bad engines but nickel, and dime. We Work on our own trucks at our own Shop. They use alittle more \r\nFuel but we do not have to give all the profit to the repair Shops and never have to be toed in! As for CA. and Carb, We need to get behind OOIDA(they have a law suit agin CA to let us run in the state). and I Agree with OOIDA, \r\nif we only run a limited amount of miles in the State of CA.like 10000, or less we should not have to comply!", "parentReplyId": null, "thumbUrl": "", "avatarThumbUrl": "https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.bulkloads.com/user_files/profile/thumbs/default.png", "signUpDate": "2010-05-31", "dateAdded": "2014-06-01T21:55:59Z", "likes": 0, "dislikes": 0, "approved": 1, "userId": 1692, "firstName": "HAROLD", "lastName": "LYLE", "companyName": "HAROLD A LYLE", "email": "[email protected]", "city": "MARYVILLE", "state": "MO", "userCommentCount": 7, "userLikes": 0, "userDislikes": 0, "links": [], "files": [], "iLike": 0, "iDislike": 0 }, { "replyId": 24625, "content": "One of the other reasons I went with new, is I'm not a mechanic. I didn't buy trucks to work on. I don't have a facility to work on them nor do I have the knoledge past basic repairs. I also figure by the time I drive one 5-5.5 days a week while dispatching 4 others + myself, speand a late night or two printing checks a week, and billing on Sat or Sun, the last thing I want to do is be married to a truck. There are days I wish I could be large enough to have an office professional take care of the \"paperwork\" and allow me to just drive and dispatch. So in my case, some things have to be outsources and maintance is it. I have a close relationship with a small local shop that takes care of it, and I try to schedule major repairs when I have other projects I can be busy on. That's another reason, I'll probably keep these trucks for awhile. I could never find a used one specced as hard as these are, and I know the history since new. Granted, the repair costs will go up, but with no payments to worry about, I'll rest easier at night. \n \n To the above posted mentioning the constant check engine light. We have issues with these too. Usually something trivial...like it didn't like the color of my shirt or something. Often times it comes and goes, so I don't worry about it much. It'll shut down if it's serious. Had an issue with my '09 a month ago. It would lose boost pressure, like it was on a switch...on then off. I took it into Cummins. They had it from 8 a.m to 1:30 p.m. Their diaognosis...it wasn't getting enough air. Said the air filter was the cause, and could I bring a new one as they didn't have any. The current filter had 10K on it and the filter minder hardly moved. I brought a new one which they installed, and out the door I went. Got the bill a few days later...$1,200! For 8 hours time, acouple misc gaskets, and an air-filter. Needless to say, the foreman and I worked it out. He agrees with me that it's probably a turbo actuator, but they have to follow Cummins' protocol. They removed the filter they incorrectly charged me for and agreed to charge 4.5 hours instad of 8. As I said, I'm pretty sure the tech wasn't on it right at 8, and didn't work for an hour over lunch as I was there before lunch hour ended. So I can live with 4.5 hours....the bill was still $500 + my filter. I kept the \"old\" filter...tapped out what little dirt was in it, and reinstalled it in the '10 with no problems. What bothers me is wether it's new or used, the cost to keep them on the road is astronomical. Shop rates a $100+ an hour. ($88 at my independent and $104 at Cummins) These trucks on a good day won't generate near that. I purchased extended warranties on both trucks with they were new, to 5 year and 500K as that was all the longer I planned on owning them. It has been beneficial to have. But even then we have had repairs that warranty didn't cover. So my advice is still to buy what you can pay cash for or have paid off quickly, just because it's new, won't keep it out of the shop. I would also buy something that you have a dealer to support. We have Cat Cummins and Detroit here in our small town. I probably had less downtime per mile or year (engine related) with my old E model Cat in my first truck than these new ones. Most problems have been DPF, turbo, EGR coolers, manifold gaskets etc. \n \n \n", "contentHtml": "One of the other reasons I went with new, is I'm not a mechanic. I didn't buy trucks to work on. I don't have a facility to work on them nor do I have the knoledge past basic repairs. I also figure by the time I drive one 5-5.5 days a week while dispatching 4 others + myself, speand a late night or two printing checks a week, and billing on Sat or Sun, the last thing I want to do is be married to a truck. There are days I wish I could be large enough to have an office professional take care of the "paperwork" and allow me to just drive and dispatch. So in my case, some things have to be outsources and maintance is it. I have a close relationship with a small local shop that takes care of it, and I try to schedule major repairs when I have other projects I can be busy on. That's another reason, I'll probably keep these trucks for awhile. I could never find a used one specced as hard as these are, and I know the history since new. Granted, the repair costs will go up, but with no payments to worry about, I'll rest easier at night. \r\n \r\nTo the above posted mentioning the constant check engine light. We have issues with these too. Usually something trivial...like it didn't like the color of my shirt or something. Often times it comes and goes, so I don't worry about it much. It'll shut down if it's serious. Had an issue with my '09 a month ago. It would lose boost pressure, like it was on a switch...on then off. I took it into Cummins. They had it from 8 a.m to 1:30 p.m. Their diaognosis...it wasn't getting enough air. Said the air filter was the cause, and could I bring a new one as they didn't have any. The current filter had 10K on it and the filter minder hardly moved. I brought a new one which they installed, and out the door I went. Got the bill a few days later...$1,200! For 8 hours time, acouple misc gaskets, and an air-filter. Needless to say, the foreman and I worked it out. He agrees with me that it's probably a turbo actuator, but they have to follow Cummins' protocol. They removed the filter they incorrectly charged me for and agreed to charge 4.5 hours instad of 8. As I said, I'm pretty sure the tech wasn't on it right at 8, and didn't work for an hour over lunch as I was there before lunch hour ended. So I can live with 4.5 hours....the bill was still $500 + my filter. I kept the "old" filter...tapped out what little dirt was in it, and reinstalled it in the '10 with no problems. What bothers me is wether it's new or used, the cost to keep them on the road is astronomical. Shop rates a $100+ an hour. ($88 at my independent and $104 at Cummins) These trucks on a good day won't generate near that. I purchased extended warranties on both trucks with they were new, to 5 year and 500K as that was all the longer I planned on owning them. It has been beneficial to have. But even then we have had repairs that warranty didn't cover. So my advice is still to buy what you can pay cash for or have paid off quickly, just because it's new, won't keep it out of the shop. I would also buy something that you have a dealer to support. We have Cat Cummins and Detroit here in our small town. I probably had less downtime per mile or year (engine related) with my old E model Cat in my first truck than these new ones. Most problems have been DPF, turbo, EGR coolers, manifold gaskets etc. \r\n \r\n ", "parentReplyId": null, "thumbUrl": "", "avatarThumbUrl": "https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.bulkloads.com/user_files/profile/thumbs/default.png", "signUpDate": "2010-07-28", "dateAdded": "2014-06-01T22:26:15Z", "likes": 0, "dislikes": 0, "approved": 1, "userId": 2180, "firstName": "TRENT", "lastName": "MCCAIN", "companyName": "MCCAIN ENTERPRISES LLC", "email": "[email protected]", "city": "COLBY", "state": "KS", "userCommentCount": 62, "userLikes": 8, "userDislikes": 0, "links": [], "files": [], "iLike": 0, "iDislike": 0 }, { "replyId": 24626, "content": "my newest truck is 99 KW 900L we own 3 of them i due a loot of the repairs and those old trucks run every day from 100 to 500 miles yea they are old but if u keep them on good shape those babes make money whats kill u is 85 bucks flat rate at any diesel shop so we here to make some$$ not to give it a way", "contentHtml": "my newest truck is 99 KW 900L we own 3 of them i due a loot of the repairs and those old trucks run every day from 100 to 500 miles yea they are old but if u keep them on good shape those babes make money whats kill u is 85 bucks flat rate at any diesel shop so we here to make some$$ not to give it a way", "parentReplyId": null, "thumbUrl": "", "avatarThumbUrl": "https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.bulkloads.com/user_files/profile/thumbs/default.png", "signUpDate": "2012-01-19", "dateAdded": "2014-06-01T23:33:06Z", "likes": 0, "dislikes": 0, "approved": 1, "userId": 6339, "firstName": "DANIEL ", "lastName": "FERNANDEZ", "companyName": "FALLS TRUCKING", "email": "[email protected]", "city": "AMERICAN FALLS", "state": "ID", "userCommentCount": 50, "userLikes": 1, "userDislikes": 0, "links": [], "files": [], "iLike": 0, "iDislike": 0 }, { "replyId": 24627, "content": "I have never been able to afford a brand new truck but I have had 6 trucks that were just off of lease and fleet maintained. 4 internationals and 2 freightliners. two detroits,3 N14 cummins,and 1 C12 cat. All had computors and all the electronic garble. I had a string of problems with electronics, computors, and on turbo. I had each of these trucks financed. 3 of them I paid off through working and 3 of them I sold and paid off the loans on them. The were 1990's to 2000's models. I now have a 1975 Pete 359 that I bought from the children of the original owner. He had taken very good care of this truck and just before I bought it from them they had the motor and tranny completely overhauled. there is no computor and not alot of electronic garble to deal with on this truck. I have been using it now longer than any of the other trucks I once had and it has been by far a better truck to wotk with. It has a Big cam 3 Cummins in it. The engine is one of the leased expensive to have to work on although I have not had any real major work to do on it. I hope that it continues to give me good service. I also own this truck. I was able to pay cash for it when I bought it. The newer trucks may work better for the big companies but me little ol me an owner operator the older truck has been better.", "contentHtml": "I have never been able to afford a brand new truck but I have had 6 trucks that were just off of lease and fleet maintained. 4 internationals and 2 freightliners. two detroits,3 N14 cummins,and 1 C12 cat. All had computors and all the electronic garble. I had a string of problems with electronics, computors, and on turbo. I had each of these trucks financed. 3 of them I paid off through working and 3 of them I sold and paid off the loans on them. The were 1990's to 2000's models. I now have a 1975 Pete 359 that I bought from the children of the original owner. He had taken very good care of this truck and just before I bought it from them they had the motor and tranny completely overhauled. there is no computor and not alot of electronic garble to deal with on this truck. I have been using it now longer than any of the other trucks I once had and it has been by far a better truck to wotk with. It has a Big cam 3 Cummins in it. The engine is one of the leased expensive to have to work on although I have not had any real major work to do on it. I hope that it continues to give me good service. I also own this truck. I was able to pay cash for it when I bought it. The newer trucks may work better for the big companies but me little ol me an owner operator the older truck has been better.", "parentReplyId": null, "thumbUrl": "", "avatarThumbUrl": "https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.bulkloads.com/user_files/profile/thumbs/default.png", "signUpDate": "2014-05-28", "dateAdded": "2014-06-03T03:13:19Z", "likes": 1, "dislikes": 0, "approved": 1, "userId": 15007, "firstName": "MICHAEL", "lastName": "LEE", "companyName": "LRC TRUCKING", "email": "[email protected]", "city": "GOLDSBORO", "state": "NC", "userCommentCount": 14, "userLikes": 0, "userDislikes": 0, "links": [], "files": [], "iLike": 0, "iDislike": 0 }, { "replyId": 24628, "content": "We just went through the same scenario this winter. The older trucks are 2005-2010 and 450k-800k miles, they are nickle and diming us on the repairs. We do not have a shop, plus when the trucks are 500 miles from home you need to get them fixed wherever you can. After running the numbers, the amount of money we put into old truck payments, repairs, and down time is more expensive than having a new truck with a full warranty. We ended up leasing a new KW T680 52\" for 5 years with a full extended warranty for 5 yr/500k miles. We went the leasing route because of the uncertainty of the depreciation laws for 2014. 20,000 miles on the new truck and it has worked great with no major issues. The new truck with emmissions and all the electronics has a learning curve with it, it's like going back the first day of school to learn them, but it is well worth it.\n \n If I had to do it again, I would. I will never buy a used truck again. So far, the new truck is working out to be cheaper. More uptime and less headaches, I have too much going on to worry about breakdowns and unneccessary headaches. Just my experience, but I thought I would share as we went throught he same struggle to make a decision for 6 months before finally getting a new truck.\n", "contentHtml": "We just went through the same scenario this winter. The older trucks are 2005-2010 and 450k-800k miles, they are nickle and diming us on the repairs. We do not have a shop, plus when the trucks are 500 miles from home you need to get them fixed wherever you can. After running the numbers, the amount of money we put into old truck payments, repairs, and down time is more expensive than having a new truck with a full warranty. We ended up leasing a new KW T680 52" for 5 years with a full extended warranty for 5 yr/500k miles. We went the leasing route because of the uncertainty of the depreciation laws for 2014. 20,000 miles on the new truck and it has worked great with no major issues. The new truck with emmissions and all the electronics has a learning curve with it, it's like going back the first day of school to learn them, but it is well worth it. \r\n \r\nIf I had to do it again, I would. I will never buy a used truck again. So far, the new truck is working out to be cheaper. More uptime and less headaches, I have too much going on to worry about breakdowns and unneccessary headaches. Just my experience, but I thought I would share as we went throught he same struggle to make a decision for 6 months before finally getting a new truck. ", "parentReplyId": null, "thumbUrl": "", "avatarThumbUrl": "https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.bulkloads.com/user_files/profile/thumbs/default.png", "signUpDate": "2011-05-16", "dateAdded": "2014-06-03T13:47:50Z", "likes": 0, "dislikes": 0, "approved": 1, "userId": 4515, "firstName": "Ryan", "lastName": "Schwieterman", "companyName": "SCHWIET ACRES TRUCKING", "email": "[email protected]", "city": "Celina", "state": "OH", "userCommentCount": 39, "userLikes": 0, "userDislikes": 2, "links": [], "files": [], "iLike": 0, "iDislike": 0 } ], "userDislikes": 0, "signUpDate": "2013-01-30", "avatarThumbUrl": "https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.bulkloads.com/user_files/profile/thumbs/default.png", "links": [], "files": [], "iLike": 0, "iDislike": 0, "iSubscribe": 0 }

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BUYING USED VS. BUYING NEW

Posted on Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 12:03 PM CST in COLFAX, WI