I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD DO THEIR HOMEWORK BEFORE DECIDING WHO TO BLAME FOR THE DECREASING RATES.

Trucking NEVER used to have brokers. Until one day a couple of decades ago somebody talked the shipper into handling their transportation needs... There are some that have take 50% for their services.. When they started they were at 10% . But it has crept up to what ever they can get by. Do you know as a trucker,you can ask for the billing that the broker charges the shipper? That is the law that nobody wants to tell you. You used to deal directly with the shipper.. They were your customer, instead of spending your time with some broker, you spent your time with shippers. Now lets look at who has what? Just how many brokers have a MC # a phone a computer, a bond and work out of the house? Or how many don't even own a truck or a trailer, or any way at all to haul freight? Then just how much does a trucking company. As in you , have.. A tractor, trailer, fuel costs , insurance, road taxes, maintinance costs, and you know the rest.
Now who is going to move that freight without a truck? And what happens if we don't haul your brokered freight? OHHH I know..some double broker it with another brokerage.. Maybe their. second company.. We used to get paid in 15 days or less no matter what.. Then it was 50% at pick up and 50% at delivery. Now it's if you want your money. Now you pay a percentage of your money to get paid before when ever the broker wants to pay you. It may be 30 days then 30 days past the 10th of the next month, then 45, and 60 days.. Unless you pay a 3-4% fee to get your money faster. Then like others have written here there are some brokers that will collect the money from the shipper,and pocket it.. Funny thing again another little law.. If you don't pay us... The shipper will. And I would think they might be a little upset having to pay twice. Or you can go after that pesky bond.. But the brokers are complaining that truckers are jumping the gun going after that pesky little bond.. Ever think that we can't use that money?
And lately brokers are going into each others customers , doing it cheaper than the last, just to keep your business going, thinking that you will make it up in moving more loads.. You can see it on the load boards as the same material is being brokered by more than one broker. Funny thing is that you will get different prices for the same load, some 200 300 dollars difference.
There are some honest brokerage companies that will treat you the trucker with respect... As they know that no truck .. Is no freight hauled, as in YOU ARE OUT OF BUSINESS. Like I have said many times before there is one really neat little word 'NO'... As in this.. NO we can't make money and will go broke, NO.. Haul it your self and see if you can do it. What does NO get you.. A little story about cheap.. A dry wall company inNorth Las Vegas cut their already cheap rates thinking if you deliver in Vegas you have to haul my freight, or go to LA or Salt Lake City.. And they won't do that... Until everybody said Bye,Bye.. See ya...then it was wait a minute we will RAISE the rate., because no trucks... No freight gets moved. It's that simple.. But why who wants to say NO, when its easier to say YES,YES.. Ill get it hauled.
The shipper doesn't want to go broke, the broker doesn't want to go broke... Then why in the heck don't you say NO so we don't go broke.. If enough say NO the rates will come up..SHIP companies and rail roads have that little word on the tip of their tounge and know how to say it very loud. Why don't you learn that little word? The what happened to. Loop miles where when you haul local on a dedicated run like produce, tankers,pneumatics etc? Or what happened to demurage? One can just guess... Funny it started to disappear about 20 years ago..
Most truckers have done their homework as to where the blame falls on for cheap freight.. It kinda fall in two piles. Or we go broke.. Maybe we need to clean up one and tell the other NO..

I see your point as well, but I will say that brokers will always be apart of this buisness b/c shippers want to make 1-5 calls to different brokers to handle hundreds of loads rather than hundreds of calls to cover 1 load. Then they want to send one check per month for all those loads instead of 100's of checks.

I guess I just see both sides of the situation. Only we as carriers can change things. Thats just my .02

If brokers are the problem or to blame for driving rates down don't haul for them and go get your own direct business I guess. I have the luxury of doing bulk brokerage and behind the scenes in running our truck line here at Autumn Transport. I feel the truckline keeps the brokerage in check with rates and operating cost and the brokerage keeps the truckline in check with what is going on in the market place by region. If the trucklines continue to haul what is considered "cheap freight" I guess they could be as much to blame as everyone else involved. If you ask most carriers I work with I will check rates with them on certain projects or lanes to make sure our ballpark numbers match up. Regardless, brokerage is an intricate part in supporting our truckline and without it we would be lost some days.

With this said what is everyone's definition of cheap freight?
Nik Hovde
Autumn Transport
Woodbury, MN

Floors are definately more specialized and more expensive like pneumatics etc. and that's totally understandable. I would want 3 bucks for a floor. One thing I've noticed is that some people lump all the bulk freight into one and think that a hopper load is just like a tanker, end dump, or a van for that matter. It's Frustrating but that's the way of the world anymore.

If you think its bad in your area, you should come to the texas panhandle where the carriers dont work to run a business and make a living. They work to just make a living and pay for fuel. Ive been offered loads before and gave them a qoute, and been undercut by other carriers. Rates here are around 2.80 or 2.70 for round trip loads. If i haul i try to get from 3.50 to 4.00 and with fuel going up and cost of everything else i would not run for 3.

Alot of times I have found on loads like you mentioned, the brokers rate it like a van or flatbed load.. That they are used to. They dont have a clue at what kind of trailer or load it is . They get the bright idea to try to bid on it, to get it and don't know what they are doing. Lots of times with an RGN, you might have permits, escorts, out of route miles etc.. Not only brokers will try to get this type of freight, but some companies.. Like TMC. They would send in totally unqualified people with undersized securement, and they were breaking chains etc. the DOT then zeroed in on all RGN because of that. It is just like Schneider tryingto haul frac sand.. They charge cheap and won't charge for waiting time.. And can't understand why their trucks are falling apart going off road. By that time they have ruined the haul for everybody else...these are the ones that ruin the rates for everybody..if they don't know what they are doing, they need to keep their nose out of it, or get it cut off. This is what's happening with any specialized freight, like agricultural , RGN, Tank ,pneumatic.. But they see the rate, and will rate it to flatbed or van rates... And get dollar bills rolling around in their eyes.. Until a customer gets somebody that is totally lost at how to load or unload that specialized load.. And will poke those dollar signs right out of that idiots eye.. These are the ones that are ruining it for everybody.. Or remember when Swift thought they would get into the refer business and bought Dick Simon? They found out very fast... Like days that swift drivers can't haul refrigerated. And closed up that division.

I believe there are good and bad brokers out there, just like there are good and bad shippers, and good and bad carriers. Over time we all figure out who they are, who is worth working with and who is not.
The bottom line is this, for both brokers and carriers, if the rates are too low, don't broker it, don't haul it. If enough people start to say no (both brokers and carriers), shippers will have to increase their rates. It's simple supply and demand of services.
For those who continue to haul the cheap freight....good luck paying for your next major breakdown or next set of tires.
Ryan

Cheap freight??? Anything that I can't make more working for myself than I could working for someone else as a company driver. Basically if it doesn't pay atleast $2 plus a mile @ 23 tons with a 10% deadhead, It's cheap freight to me. I run a paid for truck and end dump. If I won't haul it for less, how the hell can a guy making $3000 a month in payments haul it for less????????
Remember, if I was to hire a driver for my truck, and pay him 25% (what I try to pay myself) and the company still can't turn a decent profit, what's the point?????

If somebody that moves freight reads these postings, they will come to terms that more than one trucker is not liking the freight rates, as TRUCKERS in the industry do read these postings and see that they are not the only one that wants more money. So if the freight movers want to get their freight moved in a prompt and speedy timeframe, they will see that they just may want to pay more money. They will also start to realize that there are a group of truckers that are tired of working for Free and going broke. One will come to terms that trucks move that vast amount of products over other transportation..So if one wants to move America..They move it by truck. And you just might want to start paying for that service...or be like the railroad does...if you don't like it..move it by train. They can't handle any more freight.

Jeff, I "liked" your point and agree. But I also know what I have lived through as mostly an owner operator for over 35 years. Shippers love you when they need you. But us truckers become more like a commodoty when the economy is bad and we begin to compete for loads. We may have thought we had an inside line on a sweet regular run; then wham. Someone else is hauling the loads for less (or maybe even the rail got it...). And you would have to agree that the internet certainly does make that situation competetive and easier to happen. Indeed we all want more money or to be paid fairly at least. But most of us also glean through Craigslist or shop at Costco because we all just love bargains. And likewise "some" shippers and brokers love "bargain freight" more than they care about loyalty to a few hard-working, dedicated, American truckers like us. When I watch "shipping wars", I get sick to my stomach. Likewise, posting loads here on this site is not strictly because some shipper/broker needs a truck quickly and is eager to pay 2 to 4 dollars per mile to "git 'er done"; sometimes a load is posted here to see how cheaply someone will do it. I call a load like that a "sucker bid" – sort of like how "shipping wars" ends up. We just need to be careful what loads we book. And lastly, I have always said there is no such thing as a "back haul"; I hate that expression. Every load is someone's bread and butter; every load is a "front haul" for someone.

I think the intense competition is only a symptom of a much deeper problem, to wit: The quality of people who get into the driver’s seat is too low. The public has the impression that there are a lot of trashy people driving trucks. That’s because there are a lot of trashy people driving trucks. I know without doubt that is how I was seen by some in my early days. Who else but a person with low self-respect would layover for 4 days without pay? By the way, once I got strong enough to say, “I am not doing that and I don’t care what the consequences are,” it stopped happening. Yet, any time there is some push for higher standards in our industry, like the CDL, drug-testing or the current CSA, we truckers feel like they are picking on us and the bitching starts.
Real professionals would never allow themselves to be treated the way we allow ourselves to be treated. Why have we never lobbied for fair-labor-standards for transportation workers? Why have we never balked at 70 hours being our normal work week? And that on top of what I call “dead-time.” Ask a carpenter or nurse or lawyer to sit on their behind for hours not getting paid for their time and see how far that goes. Ask an engineer to spend the night in some factory parking lot with no shower and only a vending machine for his dinner and see how long that person stays in your employ. But put a person in a truck whose only alternative is to quit and go to work for minimum wages at some convenience store and he will put up with that and a whole lot more. A lot of driving recruits come from low paying jobs. I started driving from fear of poverty. I thought it was too easy then to get a license though I was glad to get it. Maybe it is too easy to get a CDL. Maybe it is too easy to keep it.
When we become an industry with an 80% minority work force, and we probably will with immigration reform, some savvy politician, along with some celebrities, will be championing the cause of “fair treatment for the underprivileged, who have to drive those nasty old trucks to make a living” on the American stage and screen. Then we will see a better lifestyle for the truck driver come about. I will probably be retired then.

first off we will never know how much your making off the load.I think since the government has there hands in most everything else they need to be into the broker business to make sure there not making more then the truck it self. This is the reason the trucks have to load over the weight limit is to make the money we need to keep the truck running and pay the bills.I my self had to park my truck and trailer one month ago becuse of all the brokers I worked with wasn't paying enough. I don't think if i'm trying to make $1.85 a mile and with Kansas weight at 85500 I can only haul 990 bushel at corn weight and 925 at bean weight, thats if I stay legal. I guess the only way to do this is give us the number of the shipper so we can find out just how much your taken off the top. sign Dave Bauman

Jeff, It seems to me as though you really have it in for brokers as a whole, I'm sorry if you've been screwed by brokers but you missed my main point. DON'T group ALL brokers together, there are plenty of big words I could use to describe why the truckers themselves, or the shippers, or the buyers and sellers caused all the problems and make it sound convincing, my point is that there is no single group of people who are responsible for all the problems with the industry and I could build a case against any group I chose. I invite you to speak with any of the haulers loading my loads, you see our trailers all over the place, they're O/O's not company drivers who we are brokering loads to, they ALL know they can ask to see the orders, bills, payouts or anything they request because contrary to your popular repeated mention I AM NOT like those crooks that do the stuff you "Assume" all brokers do. I have had to broker loads that haven't paid as well as the others when I have a driver sitting somewhere and he needs to get somewhere else, or when a driver calls me because he's in need of a load to get him towards his reload or whatever the case. but I am always straight with them and honestly answer their questions and have been to known to take NOTHING from the load just to help them out because I know your name is all you have and I will bend over backwards to protect my reputation as well as my employers, as I mentioned I turn down at least 9 loads for every load I take to broker out because if I see the rate and know I wouldn't as a driver haul it I certainly will not ask any other drivers to load it. I feel confident that the drivers who work with us on a regular basis know the truth and that's the reason they continue to call me for help with loads. I rehearsed many different ending statements for this post but in the interest of not stooping to that level I have just decided to thank everyone for their opinions and invite you to talk to me in person anytime, you'll quickly learn I am the exception to the rule when it comes to brokers. Have a great day guys and drive safe.

I will side with Mr.Pearson on this for the most part. Partly because he and I have seemed to agree on most issues over a long period. Mr.Nolte, you are right all brokers are not bad and when I have a minute we should speak. To address Mr.Nik Hovde from Autumn Trans, I feel that as a group we should have a bottom rate, you are right Walking Floors should demand $3 or better, I'm just saying that $2 per mile should be the bottom, in my opinion. If you feel however that you could get me that great $3 more regularly than I can, I would happily lease my trucks to you. The other person that suggested that rates can be used against us you are right and I regret ever stating a rate period on this site. Mr Shut, of course hit it on the head, a broker with no equipment only cares about that commission. Dale, come on man I miss your insight. He can post a load for what ever and if someone is dumb enough to haul it ??, What does he care he got his peice and moves on. My continued frustration is personal knowledge of a big broker from the Northwest that I have knowledge of that cheats drivers daily, but I can't do anything, but go on a place like this and vent. My other mission is brokers that post a loads on these boards and the original shipper has the same load posted and people aren't smart enough to put things together and again you can't go on here and point out the obvious. My last point of the evening, How do we as a group defend against the newest problem.... Monster huge brokers looking for new turf and thinking that bulk freight is the new frontier? Only a couple of years ago Power Only freight was a big money maker, now good luck. We are in the cross hairs and are doing nothing to stop it.

Art Pfluger

Seeing how these brokers apparently are making money, don't need a drug test as required by law, have to pay for tickets, wait to be loaded or unloaded, be hassled by the police for any type of revenue enhancement that they can think of, have big truck and trailer payments, repair costs, being gone from home for days, weeks or months at a time, eat truck stop slop.. Sure isn't food any more...and I'm sure you know the rest.. Then there is this person who has a phone , computer workes out of the house or has maybe an office, and a soon to be 75,000 bond.. Works pretty much from 7 to 5 with a real lunch break at either home or in a real restaurant, and the list goes on.. The trucker already knows the shipper and receiver by face and not some phone call, knows what the broker gives them to haul that freight.. So why don't we just park those trucks and become brokers? Wouldn't it be nice to be home and make money? And not have log books, worry about fuel charges, the cops and OHHH they're from out of state they won't fight that ticket.. Kind of makes you think. ..could it happen ? You betcha.. What would a broker be with out somebody to haul it? Yes there are some honest ones..then there are those that take 15 dollars a ton for their services..think of this no trucks..no brokers. Then there is ..no brokers.. You still have trucks.. BROKERS you need to be a little humble and less greedy here..99% of you can't haul it on your own.. With no trucks..all you are is broke with a phone,computer, and that pesky 75,000 dollar bond. And when are you going to pass on that 100% of the fuel surcharge.. Unless you want to help pay for fuel.

YOU MUST BE OLD !!! MY DAD DEALT WITH BROKERS IN THE LATE 50'S EARLY 60'S !!! THERE AS ALWAYS BEEN BROKERS OUT THERE !! JUST BEFORE IT WAS THE SHIPPING COMPANYS THAT WAS THE BROKER AND NOT A OUT SIDE COMPANY DOING THE BROKEN !!!