Home > Forum > Bulk Carriers Co Op

Bulk Carriers Co-op

Dec 13, 2019 at 10:55 PM CST
+ 5 - 1

For those of you have not read the threads under CONSEQUENCES OF GOVERNMENT REGULATION , please do. Yes, I brought up the subject of forming a Bulk Carriers Co-Op, which I received nice comments on. What I would like to know is what would the general concenses be regarding acceptable rates for our times. There's no way we should continue to operate with rates dating back several decades. Of course, shorter runs should pay more, due to the distance and/or time involved. But, what about longer runs? I wrote about the D.A.T. spot board last week that showed the average rate for produce coming out of the Southwest was running at $1.27 per mile, rates dating back 35 to 45 years. The only difference between produce and grain is the equipment it's hauled in. It's all exempt freight.

So, number (1) what do you feel rates should be for long runs. (2) Do you charge by an hourly rate for more local moves, or by the load? Which do you think would be better? (3) Would you join some sort of Bulk Carriers Co-Op to help improve this industry? (4) Would you be interested in helpping form such an organization in your area / state?

Replied on Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 08:28 PM CST
Hey jerry, nobody responded to the post because it just showed up. I think it's a good idea. We all (including myself) need to swallow our ego so we can get along. Black smoke matters had thousands of people on board, and most argued about who's a better driver, who's got a better truck, you name it.

I'm on board with contributing some how. I'm pretty limited on experience though.
Replied on Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 08:28 PM CST
Just my opinion here on what I'd personally like to see happen. I pull a hopper and tanker. For my miles traveled in a year I'm comfortable at a 2.20 dollars average for all miles traveled. That's not politician rich, nor is it living broke. For my tanker that's easy to pull that average. For my hopper its tough. I dont do a whole lot of short hauls unlesit's for myself but I think hourly would work best for me for the under 100 mile stuff. The biggest things I'd like to see happen are to get somebody in the fmcsa to represent YOU AND I. I'd be willing to donate money to appoint a swamp draining Wolverine to go after these corrupt pricks. 10 hours off duty is absurd. Someone needs to look into how much money fmcsa gets from mega fleets, and We need someone Looking Into if the railroad Is paying Off these axle weight gestapo states....

I'd Also like to see some unity in applying Pressure to these loading and unloading Facilities . This banker hour bs has to go. If I pull ddg into a feedlot, they will unload me whenever . I move organic Grain for farmers all over the midwest and Mountain Region and They will load me any time. Makes life easier . Some of these big facilities Have crabby employees loading And Unloading From 9:02 to 4:29. Outside Of that, good luck.

Anyhow, I think this is a good idea
Replied on Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 09:51 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Just my opinion here on what I'd personally like to see happen. I pull a hopper and tanker. For my miles traveled in a year I'm comfortable at a 2.20 dollars average for all miles traveled. That's not politician rich, nor is it living broke. For my tanker that's easy to pull that average. For my hopper its tough. I dont do a whole lot of short hauls unlesit's for myself but I think hourly would work best for me for the under 100 mile stuff. The biggest things I'd like to see happen are to get somebody in the fmcsa to represent YOU AND I. I'd be willing to donate money to appoint a swamp draining Wolverine to go after these corrupt pricks. 10 hours off duty is absurd. Someone needs to look into how much money fmcsa gets from mega fleets, and We need someone Looking Into if the railroad Is paying Off these axle weight gestapo states.... I'd Also like to see some unity in applying Pressure to these loading and unloading Facilities . This banker hour bs has to go. If I pull ddg into a feedlot, they will unload me whenever . I move organic Grain for farmers all over the midwest and Mountain Region and They will load me any time. Makes life easier . Some of these big facilities Have crabby employees loading And Unloading From 9:02 to 4:29. Outside Of that, good luck. Anyhow, I think this is a good idea"

Dale, I could help you gain experience, even long distance to you in South Dakota. Could use others in other states to step up to the plate, too. Can you give me your e-mail and I will send you my rate sheet so that you can understand my BASIC rates that I presently use, and will use when I order my additional belt trailers. Give you some food for thought. My personal one is [email protected]

It's quite necessary to fight a lot of the loop holes the government has stuck us with, along with terrible rates.

Replied on Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 09:52 AM CST

For runs over 500 miles, minimum/good place to start is $10 per hundred miles, so 500 miles needs to pay at least $50 per ton, so 50 x 25= $1250. The hours is a good point too, a place I go to has receiving from 7am-1pm, gates don't close until 5pm though! It's a grain, just needs a sample and then head to the unload, 15 minutes and you're gone. No reason for that bs. The farmer I load it at is super flexible.

I'd like to add facilities, no reason for the loading area to be sloped hard to the side and busted up concrete so your gauges are near useless. I had a week that everywhere I loaded, was on a scale. No check weigh and circle back or other time wasting garbage.

Replied on Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 08:09 PM CST

Dale, I'd suggest you and Jim got together over coffee and talk about things, but you're 135 miles away from each other. Jim, I'll make you the same offer I made Dale, if you are interested.

Replied on Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 11:42 AM CST
+ 1
It’s a nice idea, but that’s about all it would ever amount to without any enforcement mechanism, with everyone having 48 state authority these days, the throat cutting will not stop. Right now it’s a waiting game, the pain and suffering has not reached its climax yet, but it’s definitely moving in that direction and the government is starting to react to the public’s disgust with FMCSA, that’s why OSHA is now going after carriers for coercion. The image of the American trucker is no longer that of a happy UPPER middle class citizen who’s income is equal to that of a prominent attorney, but rather that of a poor immigrant who is oppressed by corporate tyranny, and doesn’t know any better, along with declining rates and a new HOS that will base your day rate on a 17 hour work day, instead of a 14 day, while the office personnel continues to be 9-5.
Replied on Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 11:57 AM CST
- 1

I'm interested in helping. However, I don't believe price fixing the rates could ever work on a large nationwide scale. It would have to be much more localized or regional to work. We all have different operating expenses which causes a wide range of rate flucutations. Not to mention driver pay, personal living expense and the market itself. Teaching new entrants to shoot higher is a great start. Many of them are only working for a job and not thinking about what else needs to keep everything running with longevity. Not having a business mindset can be devistational. They're leaving so much on the table and don't even know it. If more carriers were to be more open with the rates they get could also help everyone no matter what their experience. There will always be rate cutters and frankly some are sooooo low I cannot compete no what I do but if the majority are charging roughly the same amount and all in the same area things can be held fairly steady overall. Think locally!

Replied on Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:42 PM CST
We try to average 2.25 per mile for the entire round,and thats for a few reasons,one being that if I need to pass one of my loads off to one of you guys you are still at,at least 2.00 per mile now,that being said we have 3 axle trailers so there is some variance,due too the fact some guys have tandems and cant always get the tonnage we do,but 2.25 per mile is a good target to have.
Replied on Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 01:17 PM CST
As far as satellite radio, I wouldn’t even wipe my ass with it, every commercial is from a mega carrier or ELD provider that wants to data mine you. Tell me who your sponsors are, and I will tell you where your business interests are. Back when Bozo was on, they told it the way it really was, as soon as he died some new ultra left wing cook took over, and brought in a used car salesmen to promote the mega carrier agenda, since he used to sell volvo’s, he was already used to kissing the ATA’s ass. They cherry pick their callers to promote their agenda, wich is why everyone dropped them and moved to the internet, so the only drivers really hearing their message anymore are working for the megga fleets.
Replied on Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 09:05 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "As far as satellite radio, I wouldn’t even wipe my ass with it, every commercial is from a mega carrier or ELD provider that wants to data mine you. Tell me who your sponsors are, and I will tell you where your business interests are. Back when Bozo was on, they told it the way it really was, as soon as he died some new ultra left wing cook took over, and brought in a used car salesmen to promote the mega carrier agenda, since he used to sell volvo’s, he was already used to kissing the ATA’s ass. They cherry pick their callers to promote their agenda, wich is why everyone dropped them and moved to the internet, so the only drivers really hearing their message anymore are working for the megga fleets. "

Sorry Jerry, I digressed there a bit in that last rant, I was responding to something dale brought up last week in a different post. I understand your desire to establish fair minimum rates, I just believe the only fruit it will bear is disappointment without a means of enforcement, and if it did somehow gain traction the shippers would quickly claim collusion, so I am dropping out of this discussion, but wish all of you good luck.
Replied on Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 09:05 PM CST
+ 1

Nice comments to date. Thanks. The idea of possibly forming a Bulk Carriers Co-Op should be set up regionally, maybe as "chapters" of a larger organization. Yes, some folks may claim our fight to have better basic rates may be "price fixing"; however, what do we have now? Using the produce example of exempt freight, if loads are being run at $1.25 to $1.27 a mile, who is "fixing" these rates? This is what the market will bear? B.S. It's what the market will bear because trucking companies won't stand together to fight for decent rates. An owner operater feels he has to take low paying loads like this for fear of losing a load to a big company, who continues to run cheap. Big companies feel the same way against competing big companies. All in all it's a terrible situation. No one should run at rates that are 35 years old.

I feel a base rate of $2.25 per mile, as the absolute minimum, would be more than fair for hauling any exempt freight, produce or grains, for longer distances. More for shorter distances which should be figured by the time and/or weight envolved, to make hauling these loads worth while. And $2.25 per mile is not double of what the rates were so many years ago. Should actually be highter in my honest opinion.

Has the demographics of people changed that much today that folks refuse to stand up for themselves, or this division of the transportation industry, that they refuse to do something that would help themselves and their businesses? Maybe I'm just too old school and I've got a big mouth. But, I've seen a lot of complaints about this on these forums.

Most trucking companies pay their employess an industry standard of $24 an hour and / or 48 cents per mile. Some are paying more for better driver retention. Yes, I pay my refer driver the industry standard due to the fact that my refer loads pay more. However, wouldn't owner operaters in the bulk carriers segment like to work and receive better rates for fairer compensation? The only way to do this is to stand up and fight for better rates overaall.

How much do you pay yourself, or an employee?

Replied on Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 08:53 AM CST
+ 2 - 1

You can thank the Immigration Act of 1965 for our demographic situation. Whites were the minority birthrate in 2016 and in 2040 they'll be the minority in the entire country regardless of age. Most of the new immigrants are from third world countries that are willing to work for a lot less than the natural born American citizen. They don't have to stand up and fight for themselves because their lives and expenses are heavily subsidized by the Federal government and said government fights all their battles for them by passing laws that are against us. The more kids they have the more they make. Housing, food, health care, education, business loans, tax breaks, grants, special interest groups, churches etc etc all pay their way to live here virtually for free while the rest of us literally pay for it with our hard earned money forced from our hands via taxes. How's that for a kick in the balls?! We're paying for our own destruction! I'm not saying these immigrants are bad people at all. They're coming here for the opportunity. Can't blame them. However, they are being used as weapons against us and they have the federal government backing them up in ways we simply cannot compete with. It's wrong and natural born citizens are not important to the government. They clearly prefer new fresh batteries willing to work for chump change (in any work field) to keep the Capitalist terror machine rolling at top speed.

Large corporations are more than happy to take full advantage of them as well and the situation in general. It's all part of the plan. Everything locks together for Globalization. Removing our stringent immigration policies in 1965, opening the borders, combining FMCSA with Canada's CCMTA and building Mexico up to our level to emulate us is creating the "North American Union" following the same route as the EU. Once the first world countries are under their complete control the final phase of global totalitarianism will begin. It's a slow process that began back in the early 1900's. I'm always willing to stand and fight but the writing is on the wall if you're paying attention to History. We will fall HARD after 2040! 55 years later the painful truth is all around us if you just open your eyes. In another 55 years it'll be a totally new govenment replacing the Feds and it's going to be very ugly. The UN's Agenda 21 is the blueprint for our unpleasant future.

I pay myself $25/hr straight time on hourly jobs, 50 cents per mile on mileage runs and 25% on per load paying agreements. Whichever works out best is what gets paid to the me. I could care less about price fixing laws either. If we sit around and expect the government to help us we deserve whatever we get. The Founders never would have allowed us to get where we are today. I'm paying THIRTY-FIVE percent of my income after expenses in state and federal taxes. That's not even counting all the other taxes I pay on sales, property, clothing and even my food in my day to day life. Corporations and globalists are running the show, not us nor our votes. The worthless traitor "elected" officials are all bought and paid for by foreign nations, billionaires and businesses that are so rich there is no currency in the world that could cash them out. There's no way we can fight that on any battlefield that they lay before us. In fact, we need to remove the field entirely and create our own. After all, it's obvious that by playing by their rules is NOT working for us. We're funding the new Globalist/Socialist/Marxist agenda ourselves.

Ask yourself this; why would they pass laws to stop us from creating rates that work best for us in our areas? They're the ones fixing the market and it's in their favor, not ours. A free market would never allow us to charge too much because if it got too high nothing would move. We're actually starting to see the other end of that. More and more freight is sitting from rates getting too low! Even the new Americans working for peanuts eventually hit rock bottom because the cost for EVERYTHING else is going up. Parts, land, service, rent, fuel, taxes, permits, IFTA are all getting higher. It's basic mathmatics mixed with common sense here. Not Rocker Science. We only have small shreds of local government left. Sad but true. The Feds have been lost since 1861 and spreading their tentacles into places the Consitution does not allow.

Bottom line; we need to make it happen locally, on our terms and forget about everything else. Following their rules has gotten us into a place we may sadly never recover from due to their cunning methods of theft. Remember the days when scabs crossed picket lines and got dealt with accordingly? It needs to be locked down. The article below touches on some of the things I mentioned in the beginning of this post. Use a little thought and read between the lines. It's very obvious.

https://www.fleetowner.com/resource-center/driver-management/article/21701029/demographics-are-changing-truck-driver-management

Replied on Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 09:04 PM CST

Aw David, you're starting to sound like I feel most of the time. And I was afraid it was just because I'm old and get cranky. You echo my thoughts with your statement of: "Bottom line; we need to make it happen locally, on our terms and forget about everything else" which is why I'm trying to convince folks to stand up for themselves and the industry. It's going to take time to convince as many as it will take to get things changed for the better; however, it can and must be done. "Why would they pass laws to stop us from creating rates that work best for us in our areas?", you asked. Actually, they really haven't. They've stated that we are not allowed to publish rates. However, no where that I can find is the subject of not being allowed to work under "SUGGESTED" base rates for our industry. Which is what I'm trying to emphasise. Actually, it would not take very long to turn our whole segment of the transportation industry around if for two weeks, or maybe three, no one, and I mean literally NO ONE would take a load unless it went for a minumum of $2.25 per mile. (Not quite double what the rate was 35 years ago). And everyone must wake up to the fact that it needs to stay there. I'm certainly not calling for a strike, or forcing some kind of work stopage. You want to run? Fine. But, set your rate no lower than $2.25 per mile. No shipper / broker could say we are shutting down the dry bulk commodities industry.

And if we can do this with these exempt products, how long do you think it would take for owner / operators hauling produce to get the drift? There are less available refers from companies than owner / operators, if I'm not mistaken. Some companies don't like dealing with produce, which is why they stay with dry freight.

Why would anyone not want to earn a decent wage and maybe eventually buy the nicer piece of equipment they've been dreaming about Or, take the wife on a nice second honeymoon. Or, leave the wife at home at take the girlfriend! Just kidding. The industry standard for trucker's wages is still basically $24 per hour / 48 cents per mile, which is what I pay my nephew with our refer. Earnings like this are possible, only if rates go up. Period.

Replied on Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 07:49 AM CST

The price fixing laws against us are based on Anti-Trust laws in place by the FTC. It seems to me that we would not actually be price fixing IMO. I could care less though. After all that's what layers are for. It's is a matter of survival at this point. I'd rather live on my feet than die on my knees and frankly sitting around crying about it without action is too sheeplike for my tastes. I agree $2.25/mile is workable but there needs to be more parameters spelled out such as minimum mile and all miles vs empty miles. $2.25/mile on 100 miles is a joke unless it's all miles to and from. Even then, it's still short of a decent daily minimum ($550) unless there's multiple runs available to the carrier in the same day.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/dealings-competitors/price-fixing

I was looking at picking up a dry van about a year ago and was talking with the seller. The subject of brokers came up and he was bitching about something in the contract he didn't like. I asked why he agreed to it, didn't cross it out on the BCA and/or didn't negotiate it before signing? He looked like he just discovered the moon as the lightbulb lit above his head as he said he had no idea he could even do such a thing. I'm not trying to mock the guy but rather to bring attention to the fact that many carriers will just accept whatever they're presented with and run with it no matter how lopsided the deal is toward the customer or broker. Passing this information on to new entrants is probably even more important than the rates themselves. Especially when you thnk about how we're bled dry through the lack of accessorials like detention and TONU. It's imperative they're paid as well.

Replied on Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 08:08 AM CST

Jerry, your statement about not hauling cheap freight is very accurate. Take a look around today and take note of the fact that shippers are offering big rates to get their product moved. Why? Christmas. No it is not out of good will or the milk of human kindness that they are doing it. They know that for the next 10 days or so trucks are going to be at a premium. I have been offered some really spectacular rates the past couple days. Again it is because they know a lot of trucks are going to shut down over the Christmas holidays. Then right after New Year everyone will be back at it whacking away at rates because they need to make money to cover expenses from Christmas and everyone will be right back griping about low rates. Say no to the cheap stuff and let it sit. If no one hauls it, there is no choice but to find a payment level where it will move. (normally that means an increase in rates).

Replied on Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 08:33 AM CST
Ok so the consensus seems to be we need to do this,so where do we go from here?Where is everybody from,it would probably be a good starting point to have a meeting and form some kind of contract that we all sign so that we form an alliance and stop the cut throat BS,we cant survive the way things are.I ask where everyone is from so maybe we can figure a central location,say for instance Omaha to have this get together.
Replied on Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 08:33 AM CST
Well hello Duane,what you said is what I have been preaching on here for at least the last year.The fact is animals and people need to eat,shippers rely on this for their ability to stay in business,they are going to try and ship for the lowest possible cost,even service and reliability come second anymore.However as you said ultimately they have to supply their customers or somebody else will,if they cant move it at for example 1.50 mile today tomorrow the price will increase,if we make them sit on it long enough they will pay a fair and decent rate.As far as detention time,TONU,and other various charges when does it become their choice as to whether they pay a bill or not,the rest of the world we have bills,and we have to pay them,just try and call your bank and say that I wont make this truck payment because the truck broke down,and its not my fault so I dont feel I should have to pay,see how far that goes.We need to start reporting late and non payment to credit bureaus,like any other business.
Replied on Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 08:47 AM CST

totally agree Eric. It is always the difference in philosophy between a shipper and a trucker. Trucker wants the rate up there so he can make money, shipper wants the rate low so he can make money. (and brokers should be candidates for saint hood for trying to find a common ground for everyone, well some of us anyway :)

Replied on Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 09:26 AM CST

Bottom line everybody that has something to do with a truck ,repair shop ,insurance companies and so on makes money. The trucker looses. We should get paid by the hour for every load we haul. With the routing software available now it would be easy to figure. 125.00 per hour would be a fair rate considering we don’t get paid any overtime after 5pm or before 7am.

Replied on Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 04:01 PM CST

Gentlemen, I'm reading a lot of positive comments about enacting necessary changes to this industry..Some, if not many of you, know that I'm just operating my refer unit at this time and have not ordered the belt trailers and tractors I've spec'ed out to haul bulk loads, which is my plan for expansion. I've made an offer, which has been accepted from a couple of you, to open up and send you my winter rate guide for the way I run my office, with proposed rates for the future of hauling exempt commodities. I'm making this available to anyone who may have the desire to have these, and a cover letter, sent to you. Hopefully it will give you food for thought. And I'm not worried about anyone who may operate a refer and haul cold, or dry freight, on the side as compitition to my little company.

Where should changes start? The expressed idea of a location, like Omaha, would be great. Of course, anyone who wants to set up a seminar in any location should realise that if brochures or advertisements for a program are given out, the usual participation rate is generally 30%, so a lot of information would have to be sent out to make an event successful.

Also, I have expressed the idea of attending any seminar as a possible spokes person, as an "expert", in the transportation field, still goes I''m open to anything that would help. And the more seminars held in various areas the better. Any one else with an idea of holding a seminar in their area? Lets inform others and bond together to make the necessary changes. My personal e-mail is [email protected]

Replied on Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 07:11 AM CST
Originally Posted by: JERRY ASHLEY
Quote: "Gentlemen, I'm reading a lot of positive comments about enacting necessary changes to this industry..Some, if not many of you, know that I'm just operating my refer unit at this time and have not ordered the belt trailers and tractors I've spec'ed out to haul bulk loads, which is my plan for expansion. I've made an offer, which has been accepted from a couple of you, to open up and send you my winter rate guide for the way I run my office, with proposed rates for the future of hauling exempt commodities. I'm making this available to anyone who may have the desire to have these, and a cover letter, sent to you. Hopefully it will give you food for thought. And I'm not worried about anyone who may operate a refer and haul cold, or dry freight, on the side as compitition to my little company. Where should changes start? The expressed idea of a location, like Omaha, would be great. Of course, anyone who wants to set up a seminar in any location should realise that if brochures or advertisements for a program are given out, the usual participation rate is generally 30%, so a lot of information would have to be sent out to make an event successful. Also, I have expressed the idea of attending any seminar as a possible spokes person, as an "expert", in the transportation field, still goes I''m open to anything that would help. And the more seminars held in various areas the better. Any one else with an idea of holding a seminar in their area? Lets inform others and bond together to make the necessary changes. My personal e-mail is [email protected]"

David, thanks for sending me that link about Price Fixing, and I encourage others to familiarise themselves with the article. Some points I'd like to comment on here regards: 'Price fixing is an agreement (written, verbal, or inferred from conduct) among competitors that raises, lowers, or stabilizes prices or competitive terms. Generally, the antitrust laws require that each company establish prices and other terms on its own, without agreeing with a competitor'. And: 'A plain agreement among competitors to fix prices is almost always illegal, whether prices are fixed at a minimum, maximum, or within some range. Illegal price fixing occurs whenever two or more competitors agree to take actions that have the effect of raising, lowering or stabilizing the price of any product or service without any legitimate justification'.

Alright, we are already facing the effects of price fixing. When customers / brokers state they will only ship at certain rates for specific commodities, who is frice fixing? When carriers agree to only take these loads cheaply' because this is what "the traffic will bear", who is helping with establishing this "price fixing?" What would be our industiy's "JUSTIFICATION" for trying to established recommended rates for hauling? The fact that operating under rates that are decades old is UNFAIR practice and unfair to the haulers due to ever increasing costs for doing business. And for interfearing with a haulers ability to make decent income for themselves and their families under the present economic conditions in this country.

Anyone have a problem with this line of thought? Personally, I have a wide range of things that I use for negotiating a rate to haul with.

Replied on Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 07:11 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "Jerry, your statement about not hauling cheap freight is very accurate. Take a look around today and take note of the fact that shippers are offering big rates to get their product moved. Why? Christmas. No it is not out of good will or the milk of human kindness that they are doing it. They know that for the next 10 days or so trucks are going to be at a premium. I have been offered some really spectacular rates the past couple days. Again it is because they know a lot of trucks are going to shut down over the Christmas holidays. Then right after New Year everyone will be back at it whacking away at rates because they need to make money to cover expenses from Christmas and everyone will be right back griping about low rates. Say no to the cheap stuff and let it sit. If no one hauls it, there is no choice but to find a payment level where it will move. (normally that means an increase in rates)."

Duane, Of course, I'm very familiar with the way freight/perishables move prior to the big holiday, and into the first of the year. We will be shutting down next week for about 10-12 days for the holiday and having annual repairs / inspections completed on our equipment, even though they are only about 15 months old. Glad to see you're getting good rates at this time. Gotta make it while the sun shines.

Replied on Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 03:46 PM CST
I have read through the thread and saw a lot of thoughts on what people think the rates should be. The fact of the matter is that you have to stablish your service record in order to warrent getting high rates! We have several customers that we haul for year round. Some times the rates fluctuate because of the cost of raw product in one state over another. We work with the rates because the customer is FAIR 24/7/365 and is always looking out for me and my trucks and in turn, my trucks and I look out for her to make sure her product is picked up and delivered on time every time! Like I said, it is the service you give to your customers that will get you the rates you need and deserve.

Rates. The thing to remember, once you have established yourself as a reliable carrier, is that when you take long loads into states a distance away, is that just like yourself and getting good rates to go a long distance away, the local driver/company in the state you traveled to has a better nework in that state than you do! You must remember to try and make good money on your way out so you can leave yourself room to move past the crap loads to a good load.

Coop. It is a noble thought but in order to make this work we would have to have every company on board as well as all brokers. In this day and age, the lack of respect and basic moral fiber is not tought to the youth who are taking over. To them it is about their bottom line! I have known brokers that I have worked with for 10 years and who were hauling for companies for longer than I have been in this chair, cast wayside by a new hire filling a vacancy from retirement! The only way I would join a coop is if I knew everyone and trusted them with my life! I have been in this business for 30+ years and can say with all honesty that there are only 3 other fleet owners in the bulk business that I trust completely and they know who they are! My trust and respect does not come easily and is VERY hard to earn!

If asked for my 2 cents worth, I will be more than happy to share my thoughts on rates for a brochure but I have not seen anyone on this thread that has come close to the rates I desire or that we strive for and most of the time get. This, once again, is the product of service, hard work and accesbility! Just do what you say, do it well and the rates will follow! When you take a load, follow through on it, unless there is something that is completely out of your control. Don't hand a load back just because something better came along or because your reload fell through. Sometimes you will have to suck it up in the name of service but it will pay dividends down the road!

That's my 2 cents worth!
Keith
ET Trucking Inc
Replied on Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 07:16 AM CST
Originally Posted by: ED MCCONNELL
Quote: "I have read through the thread and saw a lot of thoughts on what people think the rates should be. The fact of the matter is that you have to stablish your service record in order to warrent getting high rates! We have several customers that we haul for year round. Some times the rates fluctuate because of the cost of raw product in one state over another. We work with the rates because the customer is FAIR 24/7/365 and is always looking out for me and my trucks and in turn, my trucks and I look out for her to make sure her product is picked up and delivered on time every time! Like I said, it is the service you give to your customers that will get you the rates you need and deserve. Rates. The thing to remember, once you have established yourself as a reliable carrier, is that when you take long loads into states a distance away, is that just like yourself and getting good rates to go a long distance away, the local driver/company in the state you traveled to has a better nework in that state than you do! You must remember to try and make good money on your way out so you can leave yourself room to move past the crap loads to a good load. Coop. It is a noble thought but in order to make this work we would have to have every company on board as well as all brokers. In this day and age, the lack of respect and basic moral fiber is not tought to the youth who are taking over. To them it is about their bottom line! I have known brokers that I have worked with for 10 years and who were hauling for companies for longer than I have been in this chair, cast wayside by a new hire filling a vacancy from retirement! The only way I would join a coop is if I knew everyone and trusted them with my life! I have been in this business for 30+ years and can say with all honesty that there are only 3 other fleet owners in the bulk business that I trust completely and they know who they are! My trust and respect does not come easily and is VERY hard to earn! If asked for my 2 cents worth, I will be more than happy to share my thoughts on rates for a brochure but I have not seen anyone on this thread that has come close to the rates I desire or that we strive for and most of the time get. This, once again, is the product of service, hard work and accesbility! Just do what you say, do it well and the rates will follow! When you take a load, follow through on it, unless there is something that is completely out of your control. Don't hand a load back just because something better came along or because your reload fell through. Sometimes you will have to suck it up in the name of service but it will pay dividends down the road! That's my 2 cents worth! Keith ET Trucking Inc"

Keith, I couldn't agree with you more about establishing good relationships and excellent service to your customers. That was drummed into me in my early teens by my dad with his small cartage company. However, I believe in this day that many larger companies do not care about this as much as they do getting their freight / commodities moved as cheaply as possible. Which is a shame. Trust? Well, it isn't that I don't trust anybody. It's just that I don't trust anybody! Well, very few folks anyway. I guess I miss the days when a man's word was his bond. I agree that forming some type of Co-Op would be challaging and everyone who joined would have to give "their word" that they would accept the guidlines and go along with the program, for the improvement of this industry. It's nice to see you have been sucessful with the clients you work with.

On the other hand, if you and the 3 small fleet owners you know and trust would be agreeable to something like this, that would be a good start to forming an organization for fighting the problems created by the government and shippers / brokers who keep exempt freight rates so low. And would help draw other owner / operators into a program.

I certainly realise that the farmers all over the U.S. and Canada have had a tough time, weather wise, this year. As well as with the tariff situation. I brough my ideas up to a couple of farmers, who own their own rigs, this morning over breakfast. One farmer stated that the Board of Trade is respondible for what farm rates are going for now. My question was, what does the Board of Trade, or any other farming organization, have to do with trucking? They are two different industries. Of course, he stated that any increase in transporting exempt freight would cause an increase over all to the farming industry and to the general public. I know that. However, rates have been stagnent for so many years that it's caused hardships to many in the exempt haulers community. If rates had gone up even a small amount each year, according to the cost of living increases, that would have helped. When my friend mentioned that grocery prices seem to go up every year, I asked, "Who's to blame?" It's manufacturers and retail grocery outfits with their union employees, or the overhead with these companies. Not from commodity haulers! And overall it's unfair to them and keeps getting harder to make a decent living, with everything else increasing in prices.

Old school guys like us may not need some type of organization. However, it would help younger, or newer folks to the industry. At least to this segment of the transportation industry. with fighting some of the government loop holes, as well as rates, that we are plagued with.

Maybe I should just concentrate on the good loads my nephew and I are getting with our refer rig, and try to get under contract with one of the shippers, and not worry so much about this industry. However, I've become very interested in hauling dry bulk commodities and in the problems current operators face. My nephew feels that I should forget about purchasing the belt trailers to expand my company and concentrate on increasing the refer fleet. Rates are better there. The fall of Celadon hs opened a few more opportunities, too.

Replied on Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 07:17 AM CST
Keith

I can't argue with anything you stated. You're 100 percent right. In any industry or job a person has to start from the bottom, bust your butt, and do your best to get ahead. How are profit margins now, compared to when you started?I'm only32 so I can't say, but from what every baby boomer has told me, profit margins are paper thin in every industry, compared to 30 plus years ago.

Most people learn from their mistakes, the school of hard knocks is the best teacher by far. On a paper thin profit margin, those teachable mistakes are financially terminal today. I have always believed in hard work, but the hardest working person on the planet will still be financially broke if they are a moron.

People need to learn to recognize opportunity, make smart decisions with money and match that up with hard nosed work ethic and you've got a recipe for success.......as long as somebody teaches them. You baby boomers were trained in by the greatest generation. Yes, my millennial generation is the worst by far. Most are lazy entitled hippies that march from protest to protest, and they aren't worth much effort when it comes to teaching. But there are some good ones out there, and we need people to pass the torch. Everyone always talks about their hard work and determination, nobody ever mentions the people who threw them some advice, or threw them a bone when starting out.

I'm not criticizing anybody on this thread, or calling anybody out. I'm just sharing a generalized thought on learning. I paid about 30000 dollars for a degree in diesel technology and shop management, and the advice I've gotten verbally in the last 5 years has been worth 10 times more than that damn degree. I just officially pulled the plug on my farm. Total failure. I do alright trucking though, and I need my pete to step it up a notch because its 100 percent my family's living now. For you people pulling some awesome rates, great. Its commendable. In 2 years I'd say my averagper per loaded more than doubled.

But with these hours of servicit's tough to go above and beyond....
Replied on Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 08:11 AM CST
Jerry

To answer your question as to what does farming, or farm organizations have to do with trucking? Basis. Basis for the most part, is specifically transportation. At least for farm commodities anyway.
Replied on Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 11:26 AM CST
Dale to answer your question about profit margins, 30 cents on a dollar was common prior to deregulation, and they achieved those numbers running new equipment and paying drivers more money than someone with a 4 year degree could make, that’s how far we have fallen, not to mention they enjoyed a work place free from DOT harrassment. But back then we had true businessmen making rates, instead of steering wheel holders.
Replied on Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 11:26 AM CST
Hello Merry Christmas on the average just figure $2.75 all miles in $ 90 an hour demerge
Replied on Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 02:54 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Keith I can't argue with anything you stated. You're 100 percent right. In any industry or job a person has to start from the bottom, bust your butt, and do your best to get ahead. How are profit margins now, compared to when you started?I'm only32 so I can't say, but from what every baby boomer has told me, profit margins are paper thin in every industry, compared to 30 plus years ago. Most people learn from their mistakes, the school of hard knocks is the best teacher by far. On a paper thin profit margin, those teachable mistakes are financially terminal today. I have always believed in hard work, but the hardest working person on the planet will still be financially broke if they are a moron. People need to learn to recognize opportunity, make smart decisions with money and match that up with hard nosed work ethic and you've got a recipe for success.......as long as somebody teaches them. You baby boomers were trained in by the greatest generation. Yes, my millennial generation is the worst by far. Most are lazy entitled hippies that march from protest to protest, and they aren't worth much effort when it comes to teaching. But there are some good ones out there, and we need people to pass the torch. Everyone always talks about their hard work and determination, nobody ever mentions the people who threw them some advice, or threw them a bone when starting out. I'm not criticizing anybody on this thread, or calling anybody out. I'm just sharing a generalized thought on learning. I paid about 30000 dollars for a degree in diesel technology and shop management, and the advice I've gotten verbally in the last 5 years has been worth 10 times more than that damn degree. I just officially pulled the plug on my farm. Total failure. I do alright trucking though, and I need my pete to step it up a notch because its 100 percent my family's living now. For you people pulling some awesome rates, great. Its commendable. In 2 years I'd say my averagper per loaded more than doubled. But with these hours of servicit's tough to go above and beyond...."

My advice to you is when someone offers a rate that is close to what you need to make your own company profitable, ask if there is some wiggle room in the rate. Do not be affraid to ask for the rate you need to be at to make yourself profitable. If you have a good work ethic, you will never be short of work! Your service will win your customers over and you can ask for a little more. DO NOT be affraid to say no! If you have customers, someone will always be looking to take them! I have seen this time and time again where our customers have had people come in and say they can get them done cheaper. I tell them to get it done cheaper and when they come back because loads are dropped, our rates will go up. 9 times out of 10 they will come back and the rates will increase.

All I can tell you is to put in your time, stay true to your word and even now and then if you have to bounce to make it work, try not to give loads back! Also, be accessible to your customers! Return calls in a timely manner. Be kind and courteous, even on days when you would rather rip someone's head off than look at them. After all, you are providing a service to your customers!

Just remember, age is just a number! Maturity is what matters!