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Consequences of government regulation.

Dec 10, 2019 at 09:20 AM CST
+ 11
So has anyone else noticed that your ELD provider has now become a freight broker? This should be a conflict of intrest and something that should not be allowed by the government! We have been notified by our ELD provider that they are now a freight broker. SURPRISE!!! The company has GPS access to EVERY customer we work for! Is it just me or is it wrong for a company with an unfair advantage to go ahead and try to steal your freight to then try and get you to haul it for them for a cheaper rate?


The ELD mandate has more reaching effects than what we know!
Replied on Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 10:25 AM CST
What ELD provider do you use? Very interesting.
Replied on Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 10:29 AM CST
That's not surprising I guess. That's why Washington DC is in the wealthiest county in the USA. Makes you sick... what one do you have?
Replied on Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 11:00 AM CST
+ 1

Many sources screamed from the rooftops about how the ELD was going to steal carriers' sensitive customer data as well as privacy concerns for the truck drivers. This was well predicted. I don't run one and refuse to. I will never consent to the GPS tracking. This law was bought and paid for by the megas. Speed limiters will be next. Are you ready?!

Replied on Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 11:17 AM CST
+ 5
None of this stuff would have come to fruition if we as an industry would stand together,and act like we have a pair,it seems to me many of us do not realize the power we hold,so instead of spending our time trying to stab each other in the back,and cut each others throat why dont we try standing together,and tell Washington we have had enough,it has worked gay rights,pro choice lobbies,and countless other groups,its time for a new Boston tea party so to speak.
Replied on Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 12:19 PM CST
+ 1
Ironically it would take a government regulation to put a stop to it. The human brokers will be replaced by computers, since there is no valid safety argument against it, unlike the drivers, who the public and the insurance companies will still demand to be there. Alfred and I warned you all this would happen, apparently our tin foil hats double as crystal balls. The future belongs to those who can see past their shoelaces.
Replied on Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 12:24 PM CST

Where do we start?? And how did we get here? I know I'd have a hard time being able to afford to shut down the truck for a month, or even a couple weeks would be tough. Other people I've talked to are in the same boat. Too much government is killing us and everyone is too broke to do anything about it. So what can we do? I dont want to do something dumb and be lumped into the same type of people as the antifa nazis, but something's gotta give

Replied on Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 12:41 PM CST
+ 2
Here is what you need to look at,most Americans can afford to take vacation,thats not saying they travel,but if you have been in this business anything over a year and cant afford to take a week or two off,then you really need to consider at this point whether you can actually afford to work or if the work is even worth doing.
Replied on Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 02:29 PM CST
I'll need you to elaborate a little more. Are you saying that because I cant afford to shut down for a set amount of time, that I should get out of the industry? I think people's ability to afford time off is a little more complex. I've been at it commercially for 2 years now and am definitely not an expert, and am far from politician rich, but I do ok trucking. My reasons for not being able to afford time off are nobody's business. My inquiry into this thread was to benefit people in our industry. Maybe I read into your post too much

Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 07:06 AM CST

Dale, it's the same old story. Everyone talks about doing something to improve this industry, along with figuring out decent rates to charge shippers, but when it comes down to it, NO ONE, not independents,nor companies, are willing to stick together to make the improvements. It's dog eat dog!! What I would love to see is someone take the bull by the horns and form a Bulk Carriers Co-Op where everyone would agree on a SUGGESTED Base Rate that no one would go under when nogatiating the rates per load. I use the word "suggested" because, under de-regulation, we aren't alowed to have published rates, like we had before the government shoved deregulation, in it's present form, down our throats.

At this time I have my nephew running our 18' Western Star 5700 and Utility refer at rates I never go below. We haul perishable and frozen foods and stay in the midwest to east coast. I won't haul produce. Why? Back before deregulation I was under contract with Jewel Foods in Chicago hauling produce from southern Arizona and California for $1.20 per mile. Today, on the DAT board, the average load coming out of those areas are going for $1.27. That's rediculas! Those rates are 35 to 50 years old.

I have stayed with Bulk Loads dot com because I plan on increasing our fleet with a couple of 42 ft. Trinity Belt trailers hooked up with Star 4700's with small sleepers. With the help of the very knowledgeable salesman from Trinity, along with the gentleman I use at Freightliner / Western Star, the new rigs will scale out at just under 30,000, so I should be able to haul 25 tons.

My biggest hesitation comes from the rates i've been studying on this website. I've seen stuff going for $23 a ton that used to be offered at $48 a ton. Why? Because the farmers have had a bad year? In reality, what has farming got to do with trucking? They are two different industries and should be treated as such. If a farmer owns a rig and uses it to supplement his farming income, he's only screwing himself, and all others in the industry, by hauling too cheap. Newbees who dont know any better aren't helping, either.

I have always lived by the motto of: I don't care what goes in the box. The only thing that matters is my operating cost. I have divised my own base rates for hauling exempt freight, whether it's grain, or produce, and I won't operated below that. I'm sure there are others on this forum that do the same thing. I've seen comments that everything we haul should go for $3.50 to $4.00 per mile. That has already been offered many times. If you take a load for $48 a ton, and can haul 22 tons, that's $1056. If you only haul it from Ottawa, IL to southern Wisconsin for a distance of only 230 miles, you'll make $4.59 a mile. Of course, no one's going to pay that for a load going over 350 miles. So, nogatiate an acceptable mileage rate. Anyone who does not know how to do this should sell his rig.

Anyway, as I said earlier, I've expanded my basic rate sheet to include hauling bulk commodities. My sheet already has figures for demurge charges, dead head charges, and hourly rates. Of course, these are things every owner/operator or smaller company owner uses too, I'm sure. Now, if there was just some way to organize folks and have them agree on a base rate(s) no one would go below.

Incidentally, for this forum I've used the name Agra-Logistics. Since that is actually the name of a former outfit in Kansas that went bankrupt, I'm not really using that name. I"ve changed it to Agra-Belt. Will change it here when I become a full member.

Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 07:32 AM CST
+ 1
Was merely stating,and by no means trying to offend anybody,but you hear guys say they cant afford to park it for a week or two,if money is the reason they cant park then they are the first ones who should be in line to do it,yes everybody loses in the begining but the long term we all gain.We all need to get out of the mindset that its all about me,because as Abraham Lincoln said "A house divided can not stand",if you want to better things for you then you need to look at the bigger picture.Neither
.you,myself,or any other individual is going to accomplish meaningful action on our own,only together do we hold the power to stop the over regulation and insanity coming out of Washington,and these state governments,its coming case in point look at California passing a law that essentially eliminates owner operators,now New Jersey is looking at similar laws,and as we all know New York tends to mirror California,and before you know it,it becomes norm not the fringes.So that being said,we as an industry have choices to make we can either sit around as usual and bitch about it,and ultimately take what ever comes down the pike,or finally stand up to the government and say we have had enough.Now that I have spoke my mind I just want it known I am not targeting any individual person,we as whole industry are guilty of letting things get out of hand.
Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 07:57 AM CST
+ 1
I see your points. I agree now, more than ever that too much government only eliminates opportunities for people who work hard. And something needs to happen now.

I'm not going to completely defend farmers. Failing as a farmer is why I'm here. Trucking is pulling me out of a huge hole. I wont be farming much longer because I do well trucking. To say that farmers are driving rates down is false. Will any broker on this load board give a load to anybody without operating authority? The answer is no. That means, if the farmer is new, they've spent 14000 dollars on a commercial insurance policy and have all the required permits. You can't cross a state line ect ect....so the farmers turned truckers cost per mile is probably higher than yours. Hauling corn and wheat and soybeans, yes blame the farmer because they can get away with it legally. Corn and beans are too cheap for me to haul unless it's my own.Where I will agree is that farmers like myself a year ago, ARE the problem because of inexperience. Inexperience isn't because they are a farmer, its because they are new to the industry.

People are definitely hauling too cheap. There's obviously competition for loads or they wouldn't be so cheap. Trucking has been good to me this year, I'm beginning to really enjoy it, and I have some excellent direct customers and a handful of trustworthy brokers . I'm not complaining about my income. I made my bed by sucking at farming. My complaint is with too damn much governmental handcuffing of truckers. I'd be willing to do something for this industry. I think Dave's idea about meeting up to talk is good. Anything...we need to get together with ideas and start taking action
Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 12:54 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "I see your points. I agree now, more than ever that too much government only eliminates opportunities for people who work hard. And something needs to happen now. I'm not going to completely defend farmers. Failing as a farmer is why I'm here. Trucking is pulling me out of a huge hole. I wont be farming much longer because I do well trucking. To say that farmers are driving rates down is false. Will any broker on this load board give a load to anybody without operating authority? The answer is no. That means, if the farmer is new, they've spent 14000 dollars on a commercial insurance policy and have all the required permits. You can't cross a state line ect ect....so the farmers turned truckers cost per mile is probably higher than yours. Hauling corn and wheat and soybeans, yes blame the farmer because they can get away with it legally. Corn and beans are too cheap for me to haul unless it's my own.Where I will agree is that farmers like myself a year ago, ARE the problem because of inexperience. Inexperience isn't because they are a farmer, its because they are new to the industry. People are definitely hauling too cheap. There's obviously competition for loads or they wouldn't be so cheap. Trucking has been good to me this year, I'm beginning to really enjoy it, and I have some excellent direct customers and a handful of trustworthy brokers . I'm not complaining about my income. I made my bed by sucking at farming. My complaint is with too damn much governmental handcuffing of truckers. I'd be willing to do something for this industry. I think Dave's idea about meeting up to talk is good. Anything...we need to get together with ideas and start taking action "

I agree with you Dale 100% very well put.
Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 12:54 PM CST

Farmer's expenses for running a truck are FAR cheaper than an interstate carrier. It gives them an edge that only the absolute bottom of the barrel can compete with. Their plates and insurance a ridiculously cheaper. Since they're the two biggest operating expenses beside fuel it's a big deal. A large majority cannot even begin to compete with that.

https://www.dot.state.pa.us/Public/DVSPubsForms/BMV/BMV%20Forms/MV-70S.pdf

Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 02:40 PM CST
David, you cant haul commercially without a commercial plate and commercial insurance. Therefore a broker will not give you a load if you dont have operating authority. Farmers do not have operating authority or commercial insurance or plates....therefore they are no competition to you because they can NOT haul commercially. If they cheat and get away with it, that's a different story. Dot is so damn heavy handed the farmer would never get away with hauling commercially
Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 03:14 PM CST
You can't cross a state line, or haul for hire with a farm plate and farm insurance. Or haul for hire with farm plates. Anybody EVER been inspected by dot or highway patrol and they not ask for vehicle registration or insurance?? Maybe they can get away with it hauling grain locally and just claim it's their own grain....but again, what elevator will hire them without cargo coverage? A farm plated truck, with farm insurance, is not competing with you

Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 03:14 PM CST
If we had the juice to stick together, we would not be in this boat now. The way this is going to play out most likely rates will continue to fall, forcing drivers with ELD’s to engage in risky behavior resulting in sky high crash rates and violations, and insurance costs will drive companies like celadon out of business, overpaid executives and a revolving door with rookie drivers will no longer be a workable business model. At some point freight will start to mysteriously disappear, or become damaged as drivers become frustrated, and the Shippers and insurance companies will be begging for government to rescue them.
Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 03:15 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "David, you cant haul commercially without a commercial plate and commercial insurance. Therefore a broker will not give you a load if you dont have operating authority. Farmers do not have operating authority or commercial insurance or plates....therefore they are no competition to you because they can NOT haul commercially. If they cheat and get away with it, that's a different story. Dot is so damn heavy handed the farmer would never get away with hauling commercially "

I understand what they can't LEGALLY do things but apparently laws are meant to be broken to some. People do get loads directly from customers. No room for a broker when you're running under the radar. Every time a farmer pulls moves like that, the guys following the rules lose revenue potential. DOT isn't everywhere and they BOLs/receipts are easily acquired for the rare times one has to see an officer.

Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 03:15 PM CST

Also, even if one is operating legally many of them will run the truck to make their operating expenses only without caring about making a profit. That also has a dramatic effect on lane rates during certain times of the year on certain lanes. They're just as much a problem as the bottom feeders.

Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 03:48 PM CST

Yes, I certainly agree with Dave, Dale, & Eric on their view points. On the whole, if you look at the unfortunate situation concerning Celadon Refer company this past weekend, this is a prime example of a mega carrier running cheap. Although my heart goes out to the employees and their families who have been shafted by this company, as well as their customers, here is a perfect example why rates overall should come up in our industry.

I just booked my first load with a manufacturer, picking up a 2 pm tomarrow, who has a load stranded in a community half way to their consignee. In the process of selling myself / my company to the traffic manager, I explained that my rates may be higher than Celadon's were; but, there is no fear that my rig would be parked somewhere, stranding the freight. My rates are reasonable, given the cost of operating my equipment in these times.

The upper management at Celadon may have inflated the value of their company in order to receive better funding, etc., to keep their company operating; however, if they were able to increase the rates for hauling loads for their customers, they would have been able to operate at a better margin than they were. With the dog eat dog compitition from other carriers, like Swift and others, they strived to stay "competitive". To what end?

It makes me wonder which mega company will fall next. Our industry has always operated under feast or famine. Any company should be prepared for the bad times and take advantage of things during the good times. It's just the nature of the beast. Agriculture, dry freight, or refer loads doesn't make any difference.

Yes, we do need to band together for our own survival and to fight the government, as best we can. I wasn't picking on the farmers. Just using them as an example of how folks who operate trucks really need to operate their company as a real trucking company should. The same for newbees who may not realise what they are really getting themselves into. Or anyone else who really hasn't realised what it takes to run a trucking company.

Incidentally, I do know of a couple of farmers locally who do run illegally, hauling loads for their "good buddy, Jack" from a local grain house up to a Chicago facility, for a couple hundred bucks on the side. I wish the DOT would do a spot check in my area and catch fellows running like this. Or, fellows running illegally indicating they sleep in their sleepers, when they operate a day cab.

If any of you younger fellows think of a way of organizing fellows from the ag community to band together to help this industry and you want a guest speaker at an event you may come up with, let me know. I have a degree in transportation, as well as business admistration, and I first started out driving rigs back in '63. Guess I concider myself somewhat of an expert.

Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 03:50 PM CST
Give me the name of one legitimate company that will give a load to somebody with no operating authority. Hopper, reefer, tank, flatbed, anything. You are metaphorically crashing a plane and blaming the road conditions. I can't account for what a tiny portion of people do illegally but these 7 vigilante farmer truckers that are moving enough volume to blame for your inadequate rates must be some busy dudes
Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 04:10 PM CST
Jerry thanks for your polite reply. I'm sure people haul illegally, including farmers. I just dont see how they get away with it. Any legitimate grain elevator would require a commercial insurance policy....a farmer, hiring another farmer to truck his grain wouldn't require any of that, BUT, a farmer cant sell directly to the big AGPs of the world. They need an elevators license. So the only farmer trucking I could see is from field to bin, or field to local elevator, which most of you legitimate otr driversdont doanyway. Correct me if I'm wrong though please
Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 04:18 PM CST
Well we do sell to the Bartletts,Bunge's,and such directly,but I know of at least one guy who does not have DOT authority and as long as it is an exempt product IE: grain etc these guys dont need authority its kind of a grey loop hole but have also seen guys hauling produce do the same thing due to the fact produce is an exempt commodity.
Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 04:25 PM CST
Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 04:50 PM CST
I talked to the fmcsa employee that gave me my safety audit last year. If I was a farmer, running my farm plates, I can do for hire trucking for no more than 3500 dollars a year, I can go 40 miles into a neighboring state. I'm happy to stick my foot in my mouth on this if I'm wrong on this, but even if these under the radar farmers are doing these short runs, it personally means nothing to me. I want to do the 1500 dollar a day interstate trucking, not 100 bucks a load side stuff. So if these people are out there doing this, i say call them in! But I just dont see where if you took those people out of the equation that it affects the rate I get for my commercial rig, A hopper and a tanker. But maybe there's way more of it than I'm aware of
Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 08:54 PM CST
Mr Ashley, with your experience, here would be my biggest question. Are farmers hauling under the radar the problem?? Or does excess government regulation always create a black market demand?? Maybe I'm totally wrong. I just dont see where you could get away with it on a consistent enough basis to matter
Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 07:03 AM CST
- 1
Dale the ATA is more to blame than the farmers are, they continue to bring more people into this industry claiming there is a shortage of drivers, when the reality is that it’s already flooded with too many drivers, to the point where nobody can make a profit. Is it possible that the ATA is really owned by the mega shippers? The policies that they persue always seem to be anti trucker, and beneficial to the shippers. Who owns the majority of stock in these big companies? Who is really funding the ATA? How about we get a muller style investigation going, and start looking into the corruption that we all know is going on?
Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 07:03 AM CST

Ah, Dale, Government intrusion? How could you think of such a thing? No, the occasional farmer, or anyone else, taking a few loads illegally won't change the whole scheme of things. It's an accumulation of many things. Back in the day when deregulation was first introduced, you have no idea how many arguments, ah, discussions I had with the Business Agent and shop stewart affiliated with local 710 here in Chicago over the "new deal" and how it was going to screw our industry. When I mentioned how many jobs were going to be iliminated and what our breatherin would do for employment, the B.A. said that he was sure that some companies (?) would go under and that the drivers would probably apply at "upstart" companies of the day. Like Swift, JB Hunt, etc. Then they would help promote the union to these companies and the union(s) would thrive. I literally told him that he was blowing smoke up his own butt if he thought he could convince me. And, of course, his predictions never happened. It wasn't that I was clairvoyant or anything. I just new our industry a lot better than he did. I have been a big opponent of government intrusion and most everyone I knew was aware of this. I was not welcomed warmly to meetings either, after the union found out I quit the democratic party in disgust, too. I made no bones about it.

I don't know if you are familiar with the trucking term "Outlaw". I was an outlaw after buying my first rig. Back then it wasn't very hard to run this way, until things began to tighten up with required regulations and I put my rig on with a local union company, before purchasing my own rights and authority.

So, I've run the full gamut of running illegal to operating very legal. I will admit running legal is better for my heart pressure. Even with the ELD, which I was against, until I had to use our records of detention to fight over not being paid correctly according to our load manifest and B.O.L. Took time, but I was paid rather than my client having to face a lawsuit.

So, I will support anyone who has the opportunity of possibly coming up with a program to help this industry. At my age and health condition, with everything else I have going, support will be the most I can give. Besides, this will be a younger mans game, as I mentioned before. Personally, I've enjoyed a good career and really like the trucking industry.

Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 07:03 AM CST
I see a organization against ELD If you look at they web site and magazine You will find ELD Advertising. Lol
Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 07:58 AM CST
Ok we opened a can of worms here so lets dump them out and see where they crawl,we all seem to agree we need to do something,as much as I am not a fan of brokers we are all in this together,so I propose we take this somewhere,whether you have one truck,ten trucks,or ten thousand these regulations are hurting us all,so why dont we get together start an organization that is not chaired by CEO'S of mega carriers,with one common interest,such as common sense laws,fighting over regulation,working together to get fair rates,and push for laws that actually help the industry IE:detention,forced lumpers,since they decided to eliminate the ICC there are laws on the books that none of the agencies have the means,and or the initiative to enforce.Another issue that should be addressed is all these drivers holding CDL's and are non-english speaking what ever happened to the requirement of having a working knowledge of the english language to hold a CDL.Once again the mega carriers pushed the issue of a driver shortage,saying we need these guys to fill these trucks,which lead to some of them starting their own companies and decimating rates in certain markets.There is no driver shortage,just a shortage of drivers who will work cheap.When you ask a guy to spend days or weeks away from home and family he should be compensated well for that sacrifice.Which puts us as business owners in a catch 22,with everybody cutting rates,and hauling for very little profit margins,it does not leave much to pay drivers,and then we all sit around wondering why we cant get decent drivers,well some of us need to look in the mirror and we will see the answer,our profit margins are so thin we cant afford decent drivers,it all goes back to "You get what you pay for."
Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 09:27 AM CST
Jerry what’s interesting about unions, is that with out government support they don’t work, as you have pointed out, so let’s travel back in time and look at how support for unions happened in the past. The resentment against large corporations was so intense, that violence against them was considered not only acceptable but fashionable, there were beatings, stabbing, shootings, arson, and blood in the streets, the support for violence among the public was so strong that at last the politicians had no choice, but to support those movements. Look around at what you see today, resentment against corporate oppression is so strong that militant socialist’s are openly running for office, would you like to guess what’s coming next?
Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 09:27 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Jerry what’s interesting about unions, is that with out government support they don’t work, as you have pointed out, so let’s travel back in time and look at how support for unions happened in the past. The resentment against large corporations was so intense, that violence against them was considered not only acceptable but fashionable, there were beatings, stabbing, shootings, arson, and blood in the streets, the support for violence among the public was so strong that at last the politicians had no choice, but to support those movements. Look around at what you see today, resentment against corporate oppression is so strong that militant socialist’s are openly running for office, would you like to guess what’s coming next?"

FYI, I am not condoning or endorsing violence, just pointing out what’s in the history books. The history channel did a piece on where the term redneck came from a few years back, I would recommend you younger folks watch it, those who don’t know there history are doomed to repeat it.
Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 10:35 AM CST

Dave, I'm very familiar with the historical significence of the unions, which dates back to the bloody labor wars of 1929. And I agree with you that violence should never be considered. One of the reasons for deregulation was to get rid of the union and the stranglehold common carriers had on shipping rates. The government could have openned the country up to anyone who wanted to become an owner/operater, or form a new company. But, did they need to make it total deregulation, which created the dog eat dog situation companies have faced for 35 to 40 years? Couldn't they have left the rates alone? Of course not, because lower rates mean better prices for the nation's consumers. But, at who's cost? The members of the trucking industry.

Eric, I know you live in Nebraska. Would you be willing to form something like a Bulk Haulers Co-Op to get members in the ag community the opportunity to band together for the betterment of this industry? You already have a general consences of the desire to find a way to improve rates and working conditions for bulk haulers. I would even work with you, or anyone with the guts to take on a program like this, by giving you a copy of my rates and ideas. Of course, anyone who starts something like this should have the ability of traveling around the country to hold seminars, etc. I'm sure someone like Jarod from Bulk Loads would extend support for anything that could help the bulk load community. Someone should definately start something.

Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 10:54 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "That's not surprising I guess. That's why Washington DC is in the wealthiest county in the USA. Makes you sick... what one do you have?"

We are using Big Roads. The product is easy to use and the drivers like the ELD BUT as a company that has a government mandated captive audience they should not be able to go after our customers!
Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 11:12 AM CST
Originally Posted by: ED MCCONNELL
Quote: "We are using Big Roads. The product is easy to use and the drivers like the ELD BUT as a company that has a government mandated captive audience they should not be able to go after our customers!"

I am using KeepTruckin and apparently they also bought a freight brokerage and are now launching a business using ELD customer data. This is unethical and should be illegal. Can’t wait for the class action lawsuit that will follow.
Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 11:26 AM CST
Originally Posted by: JERRY ASHLEY
Quote: "Dave, I'm very familiar with the historical significence of the unions, which dates back to the bloody labor wars of 1929. And I agree with you that violence should never be considered. One of the reasons for deregulation was to get rid of the union and the stranglehold common carriers had on shipping rates. The government could have openned the country up to anyone who wanted to become an owner/operater, or form a new company. But, did they need to make it total deregulation, which created the dog eat dog situation companies have faced for 35 to 40 years? Couldn't they have left the rates alone? Of course not, because lower rates mean better prices for the nation's consumers. But, at who's cost? The members of the trucking industry. Eric, I know you live in Nebraska. Would you be willing to form something like a Bulk Haulers Co-Op to get members in the ag community the opportunity to band together for the betterment of this industry? You already have a general consences of the desire to find a way to improve rates and working conditions for bulk haulers. I would even work with you, or anyone with the guts to take on a program like this, by giving you a copy of my rates and ideas. Of course, anyone who starts something like this should have the ability of traveling around the country to hold seminars, etc. I'm sure someone like Jarod from Bulk Loads would extend support for anything that could help the bulk load community. Someone should definately start something. "

There are so many questions to be answered about how a co-op would be run. Would anyone be able to be part of this co-op? What if you have carriers trolling for new business by entering the co-op and then going around the co-op?

We try to keep a tight hold on what we haul to keep our business for ourselves. I have had drivers and O/O that have been let go for various reason and some have left on their own, that have turned around and have contacted the shippers to try and get our work. Although they try, it seems that the service given by our company keeps the business for us. I am all for working with other SMALL fleets to make sure our customers who pay us well for service get their freight covered, BUT in this ever changing world, seem to only fully trust and respect a hand full of other people in this industry.

I am like many of you out there, getting old, have decades in the trucking industry and long for the good ole days! Something that the new driver will never know. Days when you told someone what you did for a living at the local watering hole on a friday/saturday night after a long week and they had respect for the job you did! Fast forward 25 years to being just a damned truck driver.

It is true that if we do not remember our history we are doomed to repeat it! We have seen the dumbing down of the education system in this country in the past 20 year to the point of our youth thinking that milk comes from a store and not a cow! That you should go and protest the slaughter of poor inocent pigs at the slaughter plant only to go to Denny's after your protest for BACON and eggs! People have no clue or common sense anymore about what makes this country and the world work and heaven forbid we teach the youth respect, loyalty and integrity instead of the almighty bottom dollar!

Time to piss people off,
God bless you all and Merry Christmas to you and yours!
May 2020 be a banner year for your business and find you healthy!

Keith Kemper
ET Trucking
Casselton Nd
Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 11:38 AM CST
Originally Posted by: MATTHEW HAGAN
Quote: "I am using KeepTruckin and apparently they also bought a freight brokerage and are now launching a business using ELD customer data. This is unethical and should be illegal. Can’t wait for the class action lawsuit that will follow."

I think there should be a class action lawsuit on this issue! We are paying to have our business stolen from us!
Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 03:43 PM CST
+ 1 - 1
It’s pretty clear that trump is not going to intervene, the tech companies paid him off, a class action lawsuit may eventually succeed, but most will be out of business before it would succeed. The brokers are just as divided as the carriers, otherwise they could shut the trucks off. Since we were all unable to hang together, we shall be hanged separately. Most of you spent your life paying your dues in the school of hard knocks to learn where the the good freight lanes are, and now some pencil necked geeks who never spent a day in a truck, or night away from home are stealing all your contacts, and under cutting every one.
Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 04:29 PM CST

Keith, thanks for your thoughtfull questions and Merry Christmas to you and yours, tool Nice meeting another "Old School" trucker. Keeping good and regular clients is sacred; although, having previous employees try to steal clients away has been going on for years. You are right when you mentioned providing excellent service is the best way to keep these valuable customers.

Who would be able to join a Co-Op like this? Any owner/operater, small fleet owner, or possibly farmers who own their own rigs, but desire to obtain their authority to start making (Hopefully) some decent income with it.

What I vision in my mind as to forming some type of Co-Op is to NEVER share client information. What a seminar should cover, for example, is stressing the need to have everyone operate at a particular base rate and NEVER go below this rate. And explaining why this is so vitally important. Rates can always be higher, of course.

Actually show, or teach, the formulas for figuring out a possible rate to haul a particular load; especially to those members fairly new to the industry, anyone interested in possibly learning better techniques, or possibly to someone who may be hesitant about quoting these rates. (Maybe shy!)

Stressing the need to keep "Suggested" rates private to their own companies is also vital to the success of members. You don't want to share this information with brokers, or shippers. It should be considered personal, or private, maybe "Top Secret" to these owners. Of course, there will be the occasional "Bottom Feeder" who will be compelled to share this information with stated brokers and shippers figuring he would "have an in" with these people. Of course, we all know that shippers, or brokers, would appreciate a heads up, while laughing at a particular "Bottom Feeder", because they really don't give a rats ass about this individual. They are only interested in getting their loads hauled as cheaply as possible. But, some folks just never learn.

Having problems with logging or your new ELD? That could be covered, too. Personally we use Keep Truckin' and a Garmin GPS, although I may possibly replace the Keep Truckin' with the Garmin product.

Stressing the need to bond with each other, for the benefit of the Bulk Haullers community, as well as the individuals, is equally important. Along with spreading the word to other owner/operaters and company owners about this movement to improve the industry. When you think back, this is basically how unions were formed and grew into large organizations.

Anything else I could add, let me know. But, I do believe this is the path that should be taken.

Replied on Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 07:29 AM CST
As stupid as social media is....it works. The livestock side of trucking has been given some freedom. I'd love to know the accident statistics of livestock rigs compared to van or reefer. If I'm ever bored enough to listen to road dog radio, it sounds like most of the industry doesn't approve of the livestock haulers. I'd say be happy they got the freedom. Those truckers use YouTube and democratbook to educate the general public and they do a great job. They ended up with PETA and other animal rights groups on their side. If they can do that, anything is possible
Replied on Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 03:14 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "It’s pretty clear that trump is not going to intervene, the tech companies paid him off, a class action lawsuit may eventually succeed, but most will be out of business before it would succeed. The brokers are just as divided as the carriers, otherwise they could shut the trucks off. Since we were all unable to hang together, we shall be hanged separately. Most of you spent your life paying your dues in the school of hard knocks to learn where the the good freight lanes are, and now some pencil necked geeks who never spent a day in a truck, or night away from home are stealing all your contacts, and under cutting every one. "

Well gents, seems every time the government sticks their nose into the industry with more regulation and what they think is "protective measures", they make a bigger mess out of the industry.

When they decided that everyone that needs to a brokers license and bond to move a load, it brought out every person with a computer and a phone to go and under cut everyone in the industry! Granted there are good and GREAT brokers out there that are fair and that I love working with, but for every broker I love to work with, there are 10 that I would not! We as a company, in the 10 years I have been behind this desk, had posted a total of at the most 10 loads on a load board and every time we moved a load, the freight was paid within 7 days of when the invoice was received. This is the way we have operated since before I arrived here to work and it is how things are done now, even though we do not broker out loads because we are not a broker. We have seen a large amount of brokers with more than one company so they can syphen money off of the top of the loads they are brokering and then leaving crumbs for the actual carrier.

I guess maybe the old school way of thinking may be on the way out but I sure do not care for the new way of thinking which seems to be "bottom line no matter what".
Replied on Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 03:15 PM CST

David, thanks for the post from the Truckers Report. It certainly shows the need for our own organization to help eliminate loop holes and other things that hurt the general operaters hauling exempt loads. I've opened an additional post for forming a Bulk Co-Op that hasn't had one response yet. So far it looks like folks want to complain about the problems in our hauling community, but, no one wants to get involved with something that could improve it.

Replied on Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 03:15 PM CST
Originally Posted by: ERIC VOGLER
Quote: "Was merely stating,and by no means trying to offend anybody,but you hear guys say they cant afford to park it for a week or two,if money is the reason they cant park then they are the first ones who should be in line to do it,yes everybody loses in the begining but the long term we all gain.We all need to get out of the mindset that its all about me,because as Abraham Lincoln said "A house divided can not stand",if you want to better things for you then you need to look at the bigger picture.Neither .you,myself,or any other individual is going to accomplish meaningful action on our own,only together do we hold the power to stop the over regulation and insanity coming out of Washington,and these state governments,its coming case in point look at California passing a law that essentially eliminates owner operators,now New Jersey is looking at similar laws,and as we all know New York tends to mirror California,and before you know it,it becomes norm not the fringes.So that being said,we as an industry have choices to make we can either sit around as usual and bitch about it,and ultimately take what ever comes down the pike,or finally stand up to the government and say we have had enough.Now that I have spoke my mind I just want it known I am not targeting any individual person,we as whole industry are guilty of letting things get out of hand."

100%%%
Replied on Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 02:19 PM CST
Originally Posted by: JERRY ASHLEY
Quote: "Dale, it's the same old story. Everyone talks about doing something to improve this industry, along with figuring out decent rates to charge shippers, but when it comes down to it, NO ONE, not independents,nor companies, are willing to stick together to make the improvements. It's dog eat dog!! What I would love to see is someone take the bull by the horns and form a Bulk Carriers Co-Op where everyone would agree on a SUGGESTED Base Rate that no one would go under when nogatiating the rates per load. I use the word "suggested" because, under de-regulation, we aren't alowed to have published rates, like we had before the government shoved deregulation, in it's present form, down our throats. At this time I have my nephew running our 18' Western Star 5700 and Utility refer at rates I never go below. We haul perishable and frozen foods and stay in the midwest to east coast. I won't haul produce. Why? Back before deregulation I was under contract with Jewel Foods in Chicago hauling produce from southern Arizona and California for $1.20 per mile. Today, on the DAT board, the average load coming out of those areas are going for $1.27. That's rediculas! Those rates are 35 to 50 years old. I have stayed with Bulk Loads dot com because I plan on increasing our fleet with a couple of 42 ft. Trinity Belt trailers hooked up with Star 4700's with small sleepers. With the help of the very knowledgeable salesman from Trinity, along with the gentleman I use at Freightliner / Western Star, the new rigs will scale out at just under 30,000, so I should be able to haul 25 tons. My biggest hesitation comes from the rates i've been studying on this website. I've seen stuff going for $23 a ton that used to be offered at $48 a ton. Why? Because the farmers have had a bad year? In reality, what has farming got to do with trucking? They are two different industries and should be treated as such. If a farmer owns a rig and uses it to supplement his farming income, he's only screwing himself, and all others in the industry, by hauling too cheap. Newbees who dont know any better aren't helping, either. I have always lived by the motto of: I don't care what goes in the box. The only thing that matters is my operating cost. I have divised my own base rates for hauling exempt freight, whether it's grain, or produce, and I won't operated below that. I'm sure there are others on this forum that do the same thing. I've seen comments that everything we haul should go for $3.50 to $4.00 per mile. That has already been offered many times. If you take a load for $48 a ton, and can haul 22 tons, that's $1056. If you only haul it from Ottawa, IL to southern Wisconsin for a distance of only 230 miles, you'll make $4.59 a mile. Of course, no one's going to pay that for a load going over 350 miles. So, nogatiate an acceptable mileage rate. Anyone who does not know how to do this should sell his rig. Anyway, as I said earlier, I've expanded my basic rate sheet to include hauling bulk commodities. My sheet already has figures for demurge charges, dead head charges, and hourly rates. Of course, these are things every owner/operator or smaller company owner uses too, I'm sure. Now, if there was just some way to organize folks and have them agree on a base rate(s) no one would go below. Incidentally, for this forum I've used the name Agra-Logistics. Since that is actually the name of a former outfit in Kansas that went bankrupt, I'm not really using that name. I"ve changed it to Agra-Belt. Will change it here when I become a full member. "

I'll sit