Jan 15, 2024 at 12:29 PM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
This is for those guys/gals googling "Cottonseed in hopper trailers." Cottonseed is normally a decent return load out of the south for Midwest belt and walking floor carriers. One of the larger broker/shippers (The Andersons) is now trying to pedal these loads on hoppers for sub $2 a loaded mile. When I told the gal I was surprised they were trying to get Cottonseed loads moved in hoppers because it won't unload easily, she told me they were getting the Cottonseed unloaded using shovels and air kits...... 🤦 A) Cottonseed is not meant to be hauled in hoppers. If you don't believe me look it up on youtube. You will do a lot of sweating and cussing trying to unload it. B) If you are running for sub $2 a loaded mile, just save yourself some trouble and drive for Prime Inc.
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Replied on Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 01:14 PM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
Great read and looking out.
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Replied on Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 07:14 AM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
Quote: "Great read and looking out."
No problem, just trying to save somebody a major headache, and call out the complete butchering of freight rates. I did the math on a load coming out of North Carolina going to Wisconsin, I came up with $1.77 a loaded mile on a 23 ton load. If a guy could actually get a 25 ton load it would pay just over $1.90 a loaded mile. Those rates hardly cover expenses, then add an hour or two spent unloading. Sorry, this is just taking advantage of hopper carriers that don't know any better. |
Replied on Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 08:00 AM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
That's not my experience I got paid better than that from the Anderson's And the people that unloaded it knew what they were doing |
Replied on Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 09:22 AM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
I know a carrier who took one of those loads from the Andersons - he said he was unloaded quickly and it paid better than $2.00/mile. He would haul it again if those load were available and if he was in position. That was one person's experience. |
Replied on Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 10:52 AM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
Quote: "That's not my experience I got paid better than that from the Anderson's
And the people that unloaded it knew what they were doing"
How did they unload it? |
Replied on Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 11:07 AM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
I have taken loads from the Andersons in the past coming back to their Plato Mn facility. They unload you there and have never had a driver complain. The rates used to be better, and I passed on the lower rates last week and took other loads to get home instead. It is supply and demand on trucks, market spreads, and barge availability from last year that drive the rates. Rates were better in November even. Cotton Seed in a hopper is fine if they unload it, we have had guys use large essentially ice augers to punch a hole in the middle to get it to move. Also, PVC poles to poke it down. I won't make a driver haul it if they are responsible for unloading it themselves, but some facilities and dairies have quite a system.
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Replied on Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 01:17 PM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
Quote: "I have taken loads from the Andersons in the past coming back to their Plato Mn facility. They unload you there and have never had a driver complain. The rates used to be better, and I passed on the lower rates last week and took other loads to get home instead. It is supply and demand on trucks, market spreads, and barge availability from last year that drive the rates. Rates were better in November even.
Cotton Seed in a hopper is fine if they unload it, we have had guys use large essentially ice augers to punch a hole in the middle to get it to move. Also, PVC poles to poke it down. I won't make a driver haul it if they are responsible for unloading it themselves, but some facilities and dairies have quite a system.
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Interesting, so basically what you are saying is if you plan on hauling cottonseed in a hopper you should have an agreement that the receiver is responsible for unload. I hauled a load of cottonseed for the Andersons last year from North Carolina to Toledo, Ohio and got paid roughly $2.80 a loaded mile. I'm aware that market conditions change and there's always a chance to negotiate, but when the starting rate is THAT LOW it's not worth the time. |
Replied on Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 02:07 PM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
I haven't cottonseed for years now. 25-30 years ago it was fairly common to put it in a hopper. I did it as a company driver. Didn't know any better. The first time I put a load on a walking floor was the last time I put a load on a hopper. Eventually the traders told the recievers if they wanted to save the money and take it on a hopper it was up to the reciever to get it out. Not the driver. Price differences being a floor is heavier, cost more to buy, and the hoppers would / could move for less. There were few floors and nearly no belts when I started. At least in my neighborhood. |
Replied on Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 04:33 PM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
I seen these loads and just skim over them anymore. Everyone of them I've called upon is a crap rate. At 20 ton they were at 1.75 per mile. The average cost to run a truck is $2.25 a mile that is according to ATRI report they released. Then the average driver makes 0.75 cpm for company drivers, and well we are owner operators so should be making more than that or you might as well go climb in a walmart truck and sell your equipment. These numbers are for 2022 so I'm sure they have went up a little over the year. The problem is the cotton gins are trying to get rich leaving zero room for transportation of the goods on the prices they are selling the commodities. This is mainly because the farmers cant afford to pay the higher prices for feed. Moral of the story is, know what it truly cost to run your truck and pay all the bills, expenses both business and personal. And dont haul for less than a 10% percent profit for the business after you are paid and the bills are paid. |
Replied on Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 07:13 AM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
Quote: "I seen these loads and just skim over them anymore. Everyone of them I've called upon is a crap rate. At 20 ton they were at 1.75 per mile. The average cost to run a truck is $2.25 a mile that is according to ATRI report they released. Then the average driver makes 0.75 cpm for company drivers, and well we are owner operators so should be making more than that or you might as well go climb in a walmart truck and sell your equipment. These numbers are for 2022 so I'm sure they have went up a little over the year. The problem is the cotton gins are trying to get rich leaving zero room for transportation of the goods on the prices they are selling the commodities. This is mainly because the farmers cant afford to pay the higher prices for feed. Moral of the story is, know what it truly cost to run your truck and pay all the bills, expenses both business and personal. And dont haul for less than a 10% percent profit for the business after you are paid and the bills are paid."
Does your operating cost match what ATRI claims? |
Replied on Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 11:23 AM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
Quote: "I haven't cottonseed for years now. 25-30 years ago it was fairly common to put it in a hopper. I did it as a company driver. Didn't know any better. The first time I put a load on a walking floor was the last time I put a load on a hopper. Eventually the traders told the recievers if they wanted to save the money and take it on a hopper it was up to the reciever to get it out. Not the driver. Price differences being a floor is heavier, cost more to buy, and the hoppers would / could move for less. There were few floors and nearly no belts when I started. At least in my neighborhood."
Thanks for the explanation Dean. Since my regular work was literally froze up at the beginning of the week I looked for some spot loads going south to get out of the frozen north. Because I have a hopper attachment for my belt trailer I had my load search settings set to belt/hopper. When I ran across a bunch of loads from The Andersons out of North Carolina, Alabama, Georgia going to Wisconsin and Michigan I figured it was cottonseed. What I couldn't understand is why they only had hoppers listed for the work as cottonseed is a Bearcat to unload out of a hopper..... But from what I gather from this discussion is the low rates offered on these loads is an unofficial lumper fee to cover the dairies time unloading somebody's hopper.... The real losers out of this type of commodity flow is the small cattle ranches in the Virginia's and North Carolina that rely on commodities from the Midwest. Most of those ranches are not set up to unload a hopper. As much as I enjoy the scenery from that part of the country, if I can't profitability make a round trip the feed sits.... at least from me being the carrier. Thanks everyone for the replies. |
Replied on Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 11:26 AM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
Quote: "Interesting, so basically what you are saying is if you plan on hauling cottonseed in a hopper you should have an agreement that the receiver is responsible for unload.
I hauled a load of cottonseed for the Andersons last year from North Carolina to Toledo, Ohio and got paid roughly $2.80 a loaded mile. I'm aware that market conditions change and there's always a chance to negotiate, but when the starting rate is THAT LOW it's not worth the time. "
Yessir, make sure the receiver is responsible for the unloading out of a hopper. We haul it in Belts as well and prefer it that way. With Floors and belts they weigh more, cost more, require wet kits, and are more specialized and as such require higher rates. Moving it in a hopper for cheaper the trade-off should be the receiver needs to unload. If that is not the agreement then they are just taking advantage of nieve hopper companies, and perhaps this post will inform them. So in my opinion to recap: Can cottonseed go in a hopper? Yes, as long as the receiver is responsible for unloading. Should it? depends on the market price and if the receiver is willing to unload. Just like in almost all markets, low prices cure low prices. Eventually, they will come back through a combination of increased demand, lack of timely deliveries, the unwillingness of trucks to move it etc. I used to get irritated at the people posting loads, but in most cases, it is the trader that made the trade at a subpar spread and now it is up to the transportation department to try and get it moved. Normally the person truckers talk to is the entry-level worker who will move up the chain in a couple of years and be replaced by someone new.
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Replied on Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 02:00 PM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
Quote: "Yessir, make sure the receiver is responsible for the unloading out of a hopper. We haul it in Belts as well and prefer it that way. With Floors and belts they weigh more, cost more, require wet kits, and are more specialized and as such require higher rates. Moving it in a hopper for cheaper the trade-off should be the receiver needs to unload.
If that is not the agreement then they are just taking advantage of nieve hopper companies, and perhaps this post will inform them.
So in my opinion to recap:
Can cottonseed go in a hopper? Yes, as long as the receiver is responsible for unloading.
Should it? depends on the market price and if the receiver is willing to unload.
Just like in almost all markets, low prices cure low prices. Eventually, they will come back through a combination of increased demand, lack of timely deliveries, the unwillingness of trucks to move it etc.
I used to get irritated at the people posting loads, but in most cases, it is the trader that made the trade at a subpar spread and now it is up to the transportation department to try and get it moved. Normally the person truckers talk to is the entry-level worker who will move up the chain in a couple of years and be replaced by someone new.
"
Excellent response, thanks! |
Replied on Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 04:09 PM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
I've unloaded cotton seeds on a hopper and it only took 15 to 20 minutes per truck to unload. They used a big air compressor and blew them out from the top of the trailer. The pay depends on who you get the load thru. Mine came from an actual company not a broker so it paid pretty good. |
Replied on Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 08:43 AM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
Quote: "I've unloaded cotton seeds on a hopper and it only took 15 to 20 minutes per truck to unload. They used a big air compressor and blew them out from the top of the trailer. The pay depends on who you get the load thru. Mine came from an actual company not a broker so it paid pretty good."
You unloaded the cottonseed? Or did the receiver unload it for you? |
Replied on Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 09:24 AM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
The facility we deliver to, the employees unload the entire trailer. All we have to do is pull over the pit and open our hopper doors.
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Replied on Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 12:38 PM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
WAIT! You're getting $2 a mile? They have a ton of listings out of the southeast at $1.50 a mile. If my trucks had 90' trailers and 20 axles, it would be a good rate. Who TF is hauling these loads? |
Replied on Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 12:38 PM CST
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
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Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.
Quote: "That's not my experience I got paid better than that from the Anderson's
And the people that unloaded it knew what they were doing"
Every Cottonseed load I have every gotten has been unloaded by the receiver. |