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Detention pay

Mar 19, 2020 at 11:59 AM CST
+ 3 - 2

How do I set up something so that if we sit at a facility for say 12 hours like we just did. They will pay u for our time wasted? Like I can even forgive 4 hours. But 12 hours is an entire day of lost pay and they don't want to put out anything. Any words of wisdom or advise. Thank you so much!

Replied on Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 02:29 PM CST

Always negotiate detention and other accessorials BEFORE you accept the run AND have it in writing. Have them add it to the rate con, add it yourself and/or have them agree to it in an email. I've put my policy below. Of course, the numbers fluctuate so you can tweak them to whatever your needs are. The best case scenario is to have a general accessorial policy included as an addendum when you begin working on the broker/carrier agreement. The amounts should be slightly flexible so they can be negotiated per load but the general idea needs to be in writing or you'll never get paid for it if/when you file a claim on their bond or in civil court.

If you run this business like a charity you won't make it far. Most brokers are sharks and they smell fresh blood from miles away. You will be taken advantage of if you do not learn how to handle things accordingly. Not trying to be mean here but you really should have done your research before buying a truck. I cannot stress enough how important it is for you to know some basic stuff to be successful. It's never too late though and I commend you for reaching out. You're going to have to know when to say, "NO" and get used to doing it often. It's better to sit instead of spinning your wheels for nothing.

"Detention policy: Two free hours on origin and destination stops only before hourly rates begin. All other stops subject to hourly rate beginning at time of arrival. All hourly rates are billed in fifteen minute increments of $100 per hour. In/out times determined and invoiced by Carrier only. If Broker or their customer declines to contract Carrier for said detention charges after the allotted 2 free hours have passed, or otherwise exhausted a cancellation fee will incur.

Cancellation (TONU) policy: Any and all orders canceled (or significantly altered) by any party regardless of reason, will incur a cancellation fee of $250 if order is revoked (or significantly altered) after signed rate confirmation has been sent and/or received by Broker and/or Carrier.

Layover/Overnight and Storage policy: Moves requiring freight to remain on carrier’s trailer and/or at carrier's storage facility due to terms not arranged prior to event will incur a Layover, Overnight and/or Storage fee of $250 per night. Storage rates are $250 for the first 24 hours and $15 per hour thereafter."

Replied on Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 02:30 PM CST

Last time I was involved in sitting (years back) I had to give them 2 hours. Then we billed $XXX/ hour from the first hour late for delay. My friend Gary just billed 21 hours to a plant for delay. And one month later, 9 1/2 hours. Same place. They paid. You need to make sure your time in is correct. Get gaurd to stamp BOL's or use your ELD or phone to document your time there for a scheduled appointment. Then bill them your rate. If it is brokered frieght, make sure you discuss detention pay b4 you sign to haul the load. Along with who handles any issues if load were to be rejected. Carefully read any contract you sign. (Reliant for one).

I have been cool to, with a plant that had an unexpected breakdown. They are good customer, they compinsated me without me asking for a dime.

Replied on Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 09:58 PM CST
Originally Posted by: David Krouse
Quote: "Always negotiate detention and other accessorials BEFORE you accept the run AND have it in writing. Have them add it to the rate con, add it yourself and/or have them agree to it in an email. I've put my policy below. Of course, the numbers fluctuate so you can tweak them to whatever your needs are. The best case scenario is to have a general accessorial policy included as an addendum when you begin working on the broker/carrier agreement. The amounts should be slightly flexible so they can be negotiated per load but the general idea needs to be in writing or you'll never get paid for it if/when you file a claim on their bond or in civil court. If you run this business like a charity you won't make it far. Most brokers are sharks and they smell fresh blood from miles away. You will be taken advantage of if you do not learn how to handle things accordingly. Not trying to be mean here but you really should have done your research before buying a truck. I cannot stress enough how important it is for you to know some basic stuff to be successful. It's never too late though and I commend you for reaching out. You're going to have to know when to say, "NO" and get used to doing it often. It's better to sit instead of spinning your wheels for nothing. "Detention policy: Two free hours on origin and destination stops only before hourly rates begin. All other stops subject to hourly rate beginning at time of arrival. All hourly rates are billed in fifteen minute increments of $100 per hour. In/out times determined and invoiced by Carrier only. If Broker or their customer declines to contract Carrier for said detention charges after the allotted 2 free hours have passed, or otherwise exhausted a cancellation fee will incur. Cancellation (TONU) policy: Any and all orders canceled (or significantly altered) by any party regardless of reason, will incur a cancellation fee of $250 if order is revoked (or significantly altered) after signed rate confirmation has been sent and/or received by Broker and/or Carrier. Layover/Overnight and Storage policy: Moves requiring freight to remain on carrier’s trailer and/or at carrier's storage facility due to terms not arranged prior to event will incur a Layover, Overnight and/or Storage fee of $250 per night. Storage rates are $250 for the first 24 hours and $15 per hour thereafter.""

Looks like he loves them scumbag lawyers because he is one!!!!!
Replied on Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 09:19 AM CST
+ 3

Who are we saying is a scumbag lawyer? From your post its Krouse and if he is which I dont know one way or another just becuase I dont know him personally why does his reply classify him as a scumbag attorney?

From his response it gives assistance to someone who was asking for help. It gave great direction and how to address issues that most drivers do not have to deal with unless they are owner opps. Asset based drivers get paid for just hanging out waiting patiently for the customer to load you while the company itself requires a certain amount of revenue a day to pay for that driver, truck and insurance that still has to be paid whether the customer or broker likes it or not. The best way to ensure you get paid and not have to spend an obscene amount of time getting paid for your accessorials is to have an understanding up front and while the charges are ocurring. Especially in email form with broker/agent/customer where they are validating your charges the entire time you are billing.

I appreciate the help from others mistakes becuase in the end we are all trying to make a living in a tough industry. The more help we can give one another and save other companies from the same headache especially with alot of these freaking brokers that will put everything possible back onto the carrier.

When we start standing together instead of against each other we will finally get the rates we deserve and brokers will learn we will not stand. Pay or dont get your loads moved.

Replied on Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 03:01 PM CST

Maybe I should clarify something for you, Tanya. My drivers earn $24 per hour and the $50 I charge for a pick up and a drop actually is compensation for their first two hours, whether it takes two hours to bump the dock or not. I do not pay for the time spent on the actual delivery, since lumpers do this work, which is something we drivers used to do before lumper services cropped up. They are paid by the hour only during the actual detention time, until the lumpers are able to do their job. As far as an actual overnight delay, or storage of the freight, my rates are higher. So far I have not run into this problem. And my late cancellation fee is actually half of what the run would have paid. Have not had anyone give me a late cancellation. So far!

Replied on Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 03:01 PM CST
Originally Posted by: CHARLES HALL
Quote: "Who are we saying is a scumbag lawyer? From your post its Krouse and if he is which I dont know one way or another just becuase I dont know him personally why does his reply classify him as a scumbag attorney? From his response it gives assistance to someone who was asking for help. It gave great direction and how to address issues that most drivers do not have to deal with unless they are owner opps. Asset based drivers get paid for just hanging out waiting patiently for the customer to load you while the company itself requires a certain amount of revenue a day to pay for that driver, truck and insurance that still has to be paid whether the customer or broker likes it or not. The best way to ensure you get paid and not have to spend an obscene amount of time getting paid for your accessorials is to have an understanding up front and while the charges are ocurring. Especially in email form with broker/agent/customer where they are validating your charges the entire time you are billing. I appreciate the help from others mistakes becuase in the end we are all trying to make a living in a tough industry. The more help we can give one another and save other companies from the same headache especially with alot of these freaking brokers that will put everything possible back onto the carrier. When we start standing together instead of against each other we will finally get the rates we deserve and brokers will learn we will not stand. Pay or dont get your loads moved."

Charles, you are totally correct. David just explained what needs to be done before the load is accepted. Personally, I charge just a bit differently. With all the years I've been envolved in trucking, I still don't know where the "rule" was born, which means we have to give a shipper/receiver two hours of our time free. One of the things I include in my rates is a $50 pick up and a $50 drop fee because my drivers are paid hourly from the time they arrive at said facility. Actually, I should adjust that to read from the appointment time. My detention rate is basically the same as David's I also negotiate dead head mileage rates between last receiver to next shipper. I've only had a problem one time with filing for a detention rate and the ELD was all the proof I needed.

Replied on Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 10:28 AM CST
+ 2

Thanks Jerry and Charles. I have no idea why that guy follows me around with combative statements. I just ignore him. I'm not a lawyer...I'm a motor carrier and in this business you kind of have to be a lawyer though. But also a CPA, driver, owner, secretary, salesman and mechanic to name a few. Maybe James can afford to pay people to handle all those things for his business but I cannot so I'm forced to wear many hats to keep my business profitable. Even if I didn't learn all this stuff along the way and was taught by paid professionals I would still repeat all of it to anyone new to the business to help them. That's the reason I'm here...to help straighten things out and to learn myself. We all had to start somewhere and those new to the business need guidance. If we don't help them we'll all suffer in the long run. Look at how bad things are now. The more educated they are the better we ALL are. Ignorance is the death of any industry.

Replied on Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 01:32 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: David Krouse
Quote: "Thanks Jerry and Charles. I have no idea why that guy follows me around with combative statements. I just ignore him. I'm not a lawyer...I'm a motor carrier and in this business you kind of have to be a lawyer though. But also a CPA, driver, owner, secretary, salesman and mechanic to name a few. Maybe James can afford to pay people to handle all those things for his business but I cannot so I'm forced to wear many hats to keep my business profitable. Even if I didn't learn all this stuff along the way and was taught by paid professionals I would still repeat all of it to anyone new to the business to help them. That's the reason I'm here...to help straighten things out and to learn myself. We all had to start somewhere and those new to the business need guidance. If we don't help them we'll all suffer in the long run. Look at how bad things are now. The more educated they are the better we ALL are. Ignorance is the death of any industry. "

Keep up the advice David it's more than just the person asking the question that is learning.
Replied on Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 06:18 PM CST
+ 1 - 1
Originally Posted by: PETE WENGER
Quote: "Keep up the advice David it's more than just the person asking the question that is learning."

I agree. Keep it coming david
Replied on Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 07:34 AM CST
Originally Posted by: David Krouse
Quote: "Always negotiate detention and other accessorials BEFORE you accept the run AND have it in writing. Have them add it to the rate con, add it yourself and/or have them agree to it in an email. I've put my policy below. Of course, the numbers fluctuate so you can tweak them to whatever your needs are. The best case scenario is to have a general accessorial policy included as an addendum when you begin working on the broker/carrier agreement. The amounts should be slightly flexible so they can be negotiated per load but the general idea needs to be in writing or you'll never get paid for it if/when you file a claim on their bond or in civil court. If you run this business like a charity you won't make it far. Most brokers are sharks and they smell fresh blood from miles away. You will be taken advantage of if you do not learn how to handle things accordingly. Not trying to be mean here but you really should have done your research before buying a truck. I cannot stress enough how important it is for you to know some basic stuff to be successful. It's never too late though and I commend you for reaching out. You're going to have to know when to say, "NO" and get used to doing it often. It's better to sit instead of spinning your wheels for nothing. "Detention policy: Two free hours on origin and destination stops only before hourly rates begin. All other stops subject to hourly rate beginning at time of arrival. All hourly rates are billed in fifteen minute increments of $100 per hour. In/out times determined and invoiced by Carrier only. If Broker or their customer declines to contract Carrier for said detention charges after the allotted 2 free hours have passed, or otherwise exhausted a cancellation fee will incur. Cancellation (TONU) policy: Any and all orders canceled (or significantly altered) by any party regardless of reason, will incur a cancellation fee of $250 if order is revoked (or significantly altered) after signed rate confirmation has been sent and/or received by Broker and/or Carrier. Layover/Overnight and Storage policy: Moves requiring freight to remain on carrier’s trailer and/or at carrier's storage facility due to terms not arranged prior to event will incur a Layover, Overnight and/or Storage fee of $250 per night. Storage rates are $250 for the first 24 hours and $15 per hour thereafter.""

Thanks so much so quick ? I'm new to owner operator and just purchased my grain trailer .. so when I call a dispatcher and ask for a load do I read this policy to them if I enpliment the same policy or do I send it over and let them sign it before I sign the ratecon or do I send it back with the ratecon ?? Thanks so much this is very helpful and useful .. we need more drivers like yourself trying to help the up and coming drivers so we don't ruin trucking like it already had been due to the wise not helping the ignorant ( meaning the knowledge of it knowing do to the non experience)

Replied on Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 11:06 AM CST
+ 1

Typically you have to fill out a new carrier packet for any and all new brokers or end users you encounter. While filling out the packet you can eliminate the stipulations they have in their packet and replace it with what Krouse has shared. Make mention of it when you submit it back and Always Always Always let broker/customer know of the charges when and while the charges are incurring.

My Ops manager lets broker/customer know 60 minutes prior to arrival, upon arrival and in email he sends for arrival my ops manager lets the broker know charges will start in whatever amount of time we have negotiated. ie. if my driver arrives at noon and we are to give 1 hr my ops manager states driver arrived 1207 and detention starts at 107pm at a rate of 85 dollars an hour...... If it goes to 207 ops manager states we are working on 1hour of detention charges are currently 85 dollars.. And so on...

If you just sit the broker could careless how much time you waiste of your own. But when its hitting him in his pocket they tend to motivate the customer to get you moving.

Stay safe and I always say the more education you can get from those who have paid for it the hard way the better off we all are. Brokers dont do anything other than worry about their bottom line and the time they have into a load. They get pissed when you are late but dont want to own that they are the ones that typically have caused the delay with improper information, didnt make appointment for drop off or pick up, think they should make the same amount the trucker does and they have none of the overhead or ability to deliver anything if their lives depended upon it.

United we control the market its when they pit us against one another that brokers get the power.

Replied on Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 02:40 PM CST
Originally Posted by: CHARLES HALL
Quote: "Typically you have to fill out a new carrier packet for any and all new brokers or end users you encounter. While filling out the packet you can eliminate the stipulations they have in their packet and replace it with what Krouse has shared. Make mention of it when you submit it back and Always Always Always let broker/customer know of the charges when and while the charges are incurring. My Ops manager lets broker/customer know 60 minutes prior to arrival, upon arrival and in email he sends for arrival my ops manager lets the broker know charges will start in whatever amount of time we have negotiated. ie. if my driver arrives at noon and we are to give 1 hr my ops manager states driver arrived 1207 and detention starts at 107pm at a rate of 85 dollars an hour...... If it goes to 207 ops manager states we are working on 1hour of detention charges are currently 85 dollars.. And so on... If you just sit the broker could careless how much time you waiste of your own. But when its hitting him in his pocket they tend to motivate the customer to get you moving. Stay safe and I always say the more education you can get from those who have paid for it the hard way the better off we all are. Brokers dont do anything other than worry about their bottom line and the time they have into a load. They get pissed when you are late but dont want to own that they are the ones that typically have caused the delay with improper information, didnt make appointment for drop off or pick up, think they should make the same amount the trucker does and they have none of the overhead or ability to deliver anything if their lives depended upon it. United we control the market its when they pit us against one another that brokers get the power."

So when they send me a carrier packet and I fill it out I add a sheet of paper with my rates ect meaning detention like David stated above and what if they don’t sign it ? That don’t mean they will grant it ? Sorry I understand you I just want to fully understand because I’m definitely about to install a sententious policy for my company .. if you could explain that part in little further detail i would deeply appreciate it . I just don’t want to seem like a rookie when I do it lol so your advice will definitely help thanks so much
Replied on Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 04:37 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: KYLE ANDERSON
Quote: "So when they send me a carrier packet and I fill it out I add a sheet of paper with my rates ect meaning detention like David stated above and what if they don’t sign it ? That don’t mean they will grant it ? Sorry I understand you I just want to fully understand because I’m definitely about to install a sententious policy for my company .. if you could explain that part in little further detail i would deeply appreciate it . I just don’t want to seem like a rookie when I do it lol so your advice will definitely help thanks so much"

The added "sheet of paper" is called an, "Addendum". You place your terms on it and send it back when you return their Agreement to them. Be sure to read that agreement in it's entirety as well. Be sure to change and initial anything you aren't happy with because if you aren't careful there will be things in there that will hurt you in the event of a claim. It would not be wise to set your rates in stone across the board depending on your service area as lane rates vary depending on direction, time of year, commodity, supply and demand etc etc. You simply put your rough terms in as an addendum then negotiate the rates for everything on each indiviual move you make for said broker BUT make sure those rates/terms are on the rate con before you dispatch your equipment.

When you say things like. "that don't mean they'll grant it" it sounds to me like you haven't fully grasped the fact that it's YOUR BUSINESS, not theirs. Do you walk into McDonald's all tell them what you're going to pay for a Big Mac? You need to look at this from a healthy perspective. Right now, you're thinking backwards. YOU set YOUR prices, not them. They are free to move to the next sucker if you are smart enough to not be taken advantage of. Please remember you are in control of your business and nobody else. When you get to parts of that contract you're not familiar with come here and ask us for clarifiaction or call OOIDA after you're member. If they don't like your rates tell them to kick rocks! Plenty will not agree to your terms and that's fine because they are plenty more that will. When freight NEEDS to move you'll get your needs met. The ones that walk are because they're peddling cheap garbage. I routinely get calls and they cry about my rates. Thing is, 80 percent of the time they usually call me back agreeing to pay it. Right now though, if I had a dry van I would be price gouging HARD! The things that need to be moved due to the sky is falling "pandemic" nonsense usually pays dirt cheap (toilet paper, bottled water, dog food etc etc) by shippers/receivers that treat you like trash. Now's the time to turn the tables while you can because they NEED it and have to PAY. The ball is the carriers court. Do you see what I'm getting at?

I've been in this business for over two decades but my current authority is only almost two years old. When I started those numbers were brand new and every broker I came across tried every trick in the book on me because they thought I was green. There is no such thing as a stupid question. If your skin is thick enough to ask them then you are already on the path to success. Feel free to ask anything. Many are here to help. I would highly recommend becoming a member with OOIDA. They have a tremendous amount of information available to help you as well. In fact, you can look up some great videos they have on YouTube right now for free that I promise will be of great value to you.

Replied on Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 07:09 PM CST

Kyle, unfortunately you seem to be making, or have made, the mistake with getting into this industry without knowing very much about it. As you are learning it's not as easy as just buying a rig and putting it to work for you. David was correct in directing you to the OOIDA web site, and their educational tools. Put things on hold for a week, study the materials carefully, then put together a new plan of attack for your business. Involve your wife in this, if you have one to help you, and best of luck.

Replied on Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 08:21 AM CST
Originally Posted by: JERRY ASHLEY
Quote: "Kyle, unfortunately you seem to be making, or have made, the mistake with getting into this industry without knowing very much about it. As you are learning it's not as easy as just buying a rig and putting it to work for you. David was correct in directing you to the OOIDA web site, and their educational tools. Put things on hold for a week, study the materials carefully, then put together a new plan of attack for your business. Involve your wife in this, if you have one to help you, and best of luck."

Lol your so funny lol like I said I come from other freight moving cars ect there no such thing as detention in car hauling so I’m learning about it now trust me I’ve been in trucking I just needed some insight on dentin worry about yourself I asked for advice not criticism.. that’s what’s wrong with trucking today old farts like yourself to busy try to tell people how to run a business or what they should of did this or did that when all I simply asked was help with detention policy . David thanks is so much for your insight ....
Replied on Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 08:21 AM CST
Originally Posted by: David Krouse
Quote: "The added "sheet of paper" is called an, "Addendum". You place your terms on it and send it back when you return their Agreement to them. Be sure to read that agreement in it's entirety as well. Be sure to change and initial anything you aren't happy with because if you aren't careful there will be things in there that will hurt you in the event of a claim. It would not be wise to set your rates in stone across the board depending on your service area as lane rates vary depending on direction, time of year, commodity, supply and demand etc etc. You simply put your rough terms in as an addendum then negotiate the rates for everything on each indiviual move you make for said broker BUT make sure those rates/terms are on the rate con before you dispatch your equipment. When you say things like. "that don't mean they'll grant it" it sounds to me like you haven't fully grasped the fact that it's YOUR BUSINESS, not theirs. Do you walk into McDonald's all tell them what you're going to pay for a Big Mac? You need to look at this from a healthy perspective. Right now, you're thinking backwards. YOU set YOUR prices, not them. They are free to move to the next sucker if you are smart enough to not be taken advantage of. Please remember you are in control of your business and nobody else. When you get to parts of that contract you're not familiar with come here and ask us for clarifiaction or call OOIDA after you're member. If they don't like your rates tell them to kick rocks! Plenty will not agree to your terms and that's fine because they are plenty more that will. When freight NEEDS to move you'll get your needs met. The ones that walk are because they're peddling cheap garbage. I routinely get calls and they cry about my rates. Thing is, 80 percent of the time they usually call me back agreeing to pay it. Right now though, if I had a dry van I would be price gouging HARD! The things that need to be moved due to the sky is falling "pandemic" nonsense usually pays dirt cheap (toilet paper, bottled water, dog food etc etc) by shippers/receivers that treat you like trash. Now's the time to turn the tables while you can because they NEED it and have to PAY. The ball is the carriers court. Do you see what I'm getting at? I've been in this business for over two decades but my current authority is only almost two years old. When I started those numbers were brand new and every broker I came across tried every trick in the book on me because they thought I was green. There is no such thing as a stupid question. If your skin is thick enough to ask them then you are already on the path to success. Feel free to ask anything. Many are here to help. I would highly recommend becoming a member with OOIDA. They have a tremendous amount of information available to help you as well. In fact, you can look up some great videos they have on YouTube right now for free that I promise will be of great value to you. "

Thanks so much I’m enrolling now and this has been very helpful trucking needs a million more guys like you god bless brother
Replied on Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 09:13 AM CST
Originally Posted by: KYLE ANDERSON
Quote: "Thanks so much I’m enrolling now and this has been very helpful trucking needs a million more guys like you god bless brother"

You're welcome, bud. As an aside, while I can't speak for Jerry entirely I think it's safe to say he wasn't criticizing you but more like friendly business advice. Please keep in mind that most of us are responding with the idea that others will read these words later in time who may be doing their research before they put any equipment on the road. If I'm wrong I'm certain he'll have zero problem correcting me. Those brand new to the industry will need extra help or guidance. Lots of things are written to a much wider audience in mind than just the original poster. At least that's what I'm thinking when I respond to posts like these. Anyway, the goal here is awareness, knowledge and comradery. Good luck, sir.

Replied on Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 10:25 AM CST

No problem. There are plenty of us guys that will gladly stand by the square and tell you you are making a big mistake so you can learn from our hardships. There is no reason someone should have to make financial headaches when someone can give real advice to those who actually want to hear it. Sure there are plenty of guys who know more than anyone of us but collectively we are a powerhouse.

Never be afraid to ask a question, yes you will get some that are hardasses and dont want the competition but in reality they are typically afraid of you doing a better job. We live in the greatest country on the planet where anyone can do and be anything they want if you believe in yourself and have the correct direction from your peers.

Just remember that others helped you along the way and dont be that guy in the future unwilling to do the same for the next man.

Replied on Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:40 PM CST
Originally Posted by: David Krouse
Quote: "You're welcome, bud. As an aside, while I can't speak for Jerry entirely I think it's safe to say he wasn't criticizing you but more like friendly business advice. Please keep in mind that most of us are responding with the idea that others will read these words later in time who may be doing their research before they put any equipment on the road. If I'm wrong I'm certain he'll have zero problem correcting me. Those brand new to the industry will need extra help or guidance. Lots of things are written to a much wider audience in mind than just the original poster. At least that's what I'm thinking when I respond to posts like these. Anyway, the goal here is awareness, knowledge and comradery. Good luck, sir."

Thanks for the kind words, David. No, I was not criticizing Kyle. Just trying to offer help to him, or anyone, about having a complete business plan before starting out in trucking. In what ever sector the individual may be hauling in. That being said, Kyle was certainly correct with one thing. I am, and have been for years now, an old fart!!!!!! I don't know if you've listened to Jared's latest podcast, where he interviewed me,(first time I've ever done anything like this) but I hope I've given some helpful information to folks involved with our industry.