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Hours of service

Sep 19, 2022 at 11:30 PM CST
+ 15 - 1
Fmcsa quietly has a comment period about to be over asking if we should even have HOS. Last I checked there were 150 comments. The polar opposite is Fmcsa again quietly is wanting to do away with the pre 2000 eld exemption. For me I assume my power units would be, at best, severely devalued. I'm extremely surprised at absolutely no discussion on this forum regarding things with such impact for many. If the rules are going to change at someone's whim how do you have any business plans that last longer than an fmcsa or carb comment period.
Replied on Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 11:12 AM CST
+ 1
Truckers have been abused by the system for so long. After while you dont expect anything good.
Replied on Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 11:12 AM CST
- 1
My understanding is that the pre 2000 exemption was granted by congress not FMCSA, therefore only congress can revoke it, at least that’s the way OOIDA explained it to me a few years back, that said how practical is it to spend the next 20 years driving around in a truck that already has three million miles on it? The government has been changing the rules constantly ever since I entered this shit show back in the 1980’s, well personally I’ve had enough My equipment is paid for and I plan to drive it into the ground, I am no longer interested in investing money in a industry that continues to treat us like shit.
Replied on Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 10:49 AM CST
Quote: "My understanding is that the pre 2000 exemption was granted by congress not FMCSA, therefore only congress can revoke it, at least that’s the way OOIDA explained it to me a few years back, that said how practical is it to spend the next 20 years driving around in a truck that already has three million miles on it? The government has been changing the rules constantly ever since I entered this shit show back in the 1980’s, well personally I’ve had enough My equipment is paid for and I plan to drive it into the ground, I am no longer interested in investing money in a industry that continues to treat us like shit."

I started in 1984. Made 17 cents a mile in a cabover binder. Made 900 bucks a week. Now, equipment is better in some ways, roads better in some areas, but truck drivers are becoming extinct being replaced with seat meat. Road are more crowded, 4 wheelers are worse, truckstops are gone along with the men of the brotherhood. Regulations in our unregulated industry is strangling O/O and small companies. I with you, my 99 Starcar is my final ride. When it dies, I do too out here.

Replied on Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 10:50 AM CST
- 1
What is wrong with HOS? 11 and 14 is plenty. If you need to run around the clock to make money you are doing it wrong.
Replied on Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 11:18 AM CST
+ 2
Quote: "What is wrong with HOS? 11 and 14 is plenty. If you need to run around the clock to make money you are doing it wrong."

I agree that if a driver is pushing super hard because they go broke running legal then financially they shouldn't be allowed authority. The problem is a total lack of flexibility. If I want to run hard on Wednesday to avoid a blizzard on Thursday, that's nobody's business. If I want to run hard on Thursday so I can be home to pick up my kids from school on Friday that's also nobody's Business.. the only problem this country has is an inability to see things from any other perspective other than our own.
Replied on Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 03:43 PM CST
What concerns me is many complain about regulations but don't take time to try to do something to change it. Just because someone runs paper logs doesn't mean they are cheating the HOS. Some of us don't want a computer telling us what to do. Last I feel that this is going to be a devaluation of my equipment.
Replied on Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 04:50 PM CST
Does the timing of this seem suspicious to anyone? A bill gets introduced over in the senate to require hourly pay with overtime that garners support from some high ranking party members, and then suddenly there is this comment period for eliminating HOS? Coincidence?
Replied on Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 06:39 PM CST
+ 2
Quote: "What is wrong with HOS? 11 and 14 is plenty. If you need to run around the clock to make money you are doing it wrong."

This is the problem. Some drivers only think about what they haul and do. So your stuck at the shipper or receiving or you had to wait at the shop. When you run that 14 hr out your done the split sleeper just prolongs it and messes up next day. You can’t plan multiple loads with out a deep consideration of what the shipper/receiving is like. In a perfect world no big deal. Say bad sleep last night need a few hrs break. That 14 hr hard time stamp clock needs to go.
Replied on Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 07:57 AM CST
Quote: "I started in 1984. Made 17 cents a mile in a cabover binder. Made 900 bucks a week. Now, equipment is better in some ways, roads better in some areas, but truck drivers are becoming extinct being replaced with seat meat. Road are more crowded, 4 wheelers are worse, truckstops are gone along with the men of the brotherhood. Regulations in our unregulated industry is strangling O/O and small companies. I with you, my 99 Starcar is my final ride. When it dies, I do too out here. "

So you ran 5300 miles a week??

Replied on Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 02:34 PM CST
+ 2
Quote: "What is wrong with HOS? 11 and 14 is plenty. If you need to run around the clock to make money you are doing it wrong."

Whenever I hear someone say something like that I always wonder how long you've been driving. Elogs have made over job more dangerous. Especially in parking lots. Knuckleheads either drive 2 mph or 30 mph. Running on paper gives me the flexibility to avoid sitting in rush hour going no where or allows me to sleep when I need it. Rather than being forced to stop when I'm wide awake.
Replied on Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 08:54 PM CST
- 1
David Kelly, I've been an O/O for over 3 years. I spent my first 3 years as a livestock hauler. I just rran around the clock plenty.
Replied on Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 06:58 AM CST
- 1
David Kelly, I've been an o/o for a little over 3 years. I just recently switched over to hauling bulk from Livestock. I've hauled around the clock plenty and it's dangerous and unhealthy. I run on electronic logs now and it's nice to be able to stop, eat, shower, and get a night's rest. That's a luxury I didn't have when pulling cattle across the country. Sorry, but paper logs are worthless, any idiot can cheat. For those complaining about flexibility during inclement weather or traffic jams remember that you can use PC mode to get to a safe haven.... Instead of running, tired breathing hard trucks with 3 million miles on them for an ELD exemption how about working on rates.
Replied on Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 09:13 AM CST
Quote: "So you ran 5300 miles a week??"

Yes. Left Dakota City NE Sunday, drop Hunts Point Monday morning, load ice cream in Newark NJ drop in Buena Park CA, load back to Omaha Ne. Dedicated run. I was 24, healthy, greedy, and stupid. Made money but never seen the kids.

Replied on Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 09:13 AM CST
+ 1 - 1
Quote: "David Kelly, I've been an o/o for a little over 3 years. I just recently switched over to hauling bulk from Livestock. I've hauled around the clock plenty and it's dangerous and unhealthy. I run on electronic logs now and it's nice to be able to stop, eat, shower, and get a night's rest. That's a luxury I didn't have when pulling cattle across the country. Sorry, but paper logs are worthless, any idiot can cheat. For those complaining about flexibility during inclement weather or traffic jams remember that you can use PC mode to get to a safe haven.... Instead of running, tired breathing hard trucks with 3 million miles on them for an ELD exemption how about working on rates."

What you just said tells us you have very little experience with City traffic and absolutely zero experience with multi drop loads. I used to have the same opinion as you until I started doing flatbed loads that had 12 drops per load. And when it comes to bragging about being a cattle hauler let's face it most cattle haulers that I see out there are about 24 years old and the most important part of their job is making sure everybody knows that they are a cattle hauler.
Replied on Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 09:20 AM CST
+ 1 - 1
I should give an example rather than argue. Here's this week for me.... One reload on Sunday, 8 drops across Kansas Missouri and Arkansas. Two of those places don't unload after 2:00 p.m. and two of those places don't unload before 9:00 a.m.. reload in New Orleans with a loading window on Wednesday between 12:00 and 3:00 p.m. unload Friday in Minnesota and on Friday that place shuts down at 2:00 p.m.. reload there in Minnesota and head home with a 3:15 appointment to pick my kids up from school. All I'm asking you to do is look at this from someone else's perspective. I didn't schedule a tight week like that because I'm going broke I did it because my customers needed it done. I don't think I'm better than anybody else out here on the road but I know without a little bit of flexibility a week like this would be impossible based on the unloading hours some of these places have. And there's not a human being on this planet that is going to make me miss my 3:15 appointment to pick up my kids.
Replied on Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 09:02 PM CST
Quote: "David Kelly, I've been an o/o for a little over 3 years. I just recently switched over to hauling bulk from Livestock. I've hauled around the clock plenty and it's dangerous and unhealthy. I run on electronic logs now and it's nice to be able to stop, eat, shower, and get a night's rest. That's a luxury I didn't have when pulling cattle across the country. Sorry, but paper logs are worthless, any idiot can cheat. For those complaining about flexibility during inclement weather or traffic jams remember that you can use PC mode to get to a safe haven.... Instead of running, tired breathing hard trucks with 3 million miles on them for an ELD exemption how about working on rates."

I'm just going to laugh at you. Because you told on yourself in the first sentence. It isn't the age of the truck. It's who's driving and maintaining it. Pre 2000 trucks are more reliable than these modern trucks but you would understand if you had been doing this more than ten minutes. No one is talking about driving around the clock. I go home pretty much everyday. For the record I bought my first truck in may of 2000 and have been driving and dragging my own equipment since.
Replied on Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 09:02 PM CST
Quote: "I should give an example rather than argue. Here's this week for me.... One reload on Sunday, 8 drops across Kansas Missouri and Arkansas. Two of those places don't unload after 2:00 p.m. and two of those places don't unload before 9:00 a.m.. reload in New Orleans with a loading window on Wednesday between 12:00 and 3:00 p.m. unload Friday in Minnesota and on Friday that place shuts down at 2:00 p.m.. reload there in Minnesota and head home with a 3:15 appointment to pick my kids up from school. All I'm asking you to do is look at this from someone else's perspective. I didn't schedule a tight week like that because I'm going broke I did it because my customers needed it done. I don't think I'm better than anybody else out here on the road but I know without a little bit of flexibility a week like this would be impossible based on the unloading hours some of these places have. And there's not a human being on this planet that is going to make me miss my 3:15 appointment to pick up my kids."

That's what these chuckleheads don't get. It's about the freedom of movement and making decisions based upon your current conditions. I stopped running my lowboy and switched to tank when elog became mandatory. I was moving six wheelers before the bodies were put on from the factories. To find and load 6 or 7 trucks on the trailer took 4 hours I'd tou weren't distracted by a chatty driver. Then you had to shower afterwards. Because you'd either be sweaty in the summer or muddy in the winter. Then I had at least 4 stops. I primarily ran northeast with the exception of directly in the city. Even when you dound the dealership you were going to, tou might have to circle the block for an hour looking for a place to pull over long enough for a 60ft trailer. Most of the time I ended up unloading in the street. The guys that love elogs are usually new and/or weren't smart enough to understand how to log properly. They are also the people that either drive 2 mph or 30 mph in the parking lot. Bragging about being a o/o for over 3 years as if that's something to brag about is just weird. I guess he thinks he's the only person that used to ride out. I used to load bananas out of gulfport MS and drive straight thru to Jewel Osco in Chicago. Take a nap. Then run over to Beliot IL and load Green Giant to Robert LA. Straight through again. I don't need to run like that anymore. I like going home at the end of my day.
Replied on Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 09:03 PM CST
Quote: "What you just said tells us you have very little experience with City traffic and absolutely zero experience with multi drop loads. I used to have the same opinion as you until I started doing flatbed loads that had 12 drops per load. And when it comes to bragging about being a cattle hauler let's face it most cattle haulers that I see out there are about 24 years old and the most important part of their job is making sure everybody knows that they are a cattle hauler."

Dale I'm not 24, I'm almost 40, I hauled cattle because I enjoy working with animals and considered that to be a skill. But the thing is, literally everybody I ran cattle or hogs with had crashed/rolled a trailer because they fell asleep. My time was coming and I knew it. The legal hours of service haven't changed in a long time. If you have more on your plate than you can handle with the time given then you may have to make some adjustments. If you were ever at fault for a wreck that results in a fatality and it's found that you were way over legal hours nobody will care about your customers needs. Yes I ovoid cities, I believe city driving is one of those things they had in mind with the 150 air mile exemption.

Replied on Sat, Sep 24, 2022 at 06:55 AM CST
Mr.Barone, if you did something that stressed you why did you do it? End of day only person responsible for you is you. Why does everyone ASSUME that a paper log instantly means you are abusing HOS? Everyone is tracked in so many ways every hour of the day that if you really think you are going to cheat more than a few minutes here or there your mistaken. Eld say I should park 15 minutes from home or it will rat me out? I'm fully capable of knowing when I've had enough after 40 plus years. Can you understand flexibility? At 67 you want me to learn Elds? I'm not illiterate or incapable of learning. After these years with a good record for myself and my drivers have I not earned some trust? You put yourself in a position of ridicule, not a place of respect. Art
Replied on Sat, Sep 24, 2022 at 06:55 AM CST
Mr Barone, 3 yrs as O/O. Is it possible that you are at a learning stage? Someone else made a comment on age of equipment. I drive a 2000 w900l. Only truck I bought new. I have multiple trucks and do absolutely all maintenance myself paint to rebuild. I have built a few from multiple units that I bought. No I don't want to get 20 more years from my truck but I could. It's called maintenance and pride in your ride. I don't know how long it'll go. I'm hoping a couple more years. I started in 1996. Late at night Tri State Trans from MO advertised $.09 per mile hauling explosives. At that time I got $.07 per mile running from reedsburg wi to green bay with wood chips. Things are different. I can't believe an O/O that agrees with putting us all in one box. Art Pfluger
Replied on Sat, Sep 24, 2022 at 06:55 AM CST
Quote: "David Kelly, I've been an O/O for over 3 years. I spent my first 3 years as a livestock hauler. I just rran around the clock plenty."

Just for the record I messed this post up on the new format and posted it by accident... The old forum format is easier to use.

Replied on Sat, Sep 24, 2022 at 08:36 AM CST
- 1
Michael, there's no exemption for cities. I think I understand the point that you are making but I just plain disagree. Forcing everyone to operate one way just doesn't work. Too many variables. I'd be fine with 11 hours in a 24 hour period...then I could take a nap during rush hour. I put a lot of effort into my health. I run about 20 miles a week and spend about 5 hours a week in a weight room, and this hour of service prison makes that way more difficult. My business and my health is nobody's business but mine. I think this has been a good discussion. David, I agree with you 100 percent. Art, it's good to hear from you, sorry I was so damn mouthy a few months back. On the subject of old equipment...I'm retiring my 03 next week. I bought it from the guy that bought it new. Taking care of a truck long term is absolutely an art form. I'm going to post a picture of the old girl to give credit to the man that took care of it. This truck took me from the edge of bankruptcy from farming, to being comfortable. I get emotional when I think about selling it because I feel like I'm betraying a friend. 2,132,000 miles. Class pays...
Replied on Sat, Sep 24, 2022 at 01:12 PM CST
Quote: "Mr.Barone, if you did something that stressed you why did you do it? End of day only person responsible for you is you. Why does everyone ASSUME that a paper log instantly means you are abusing HOS? Everyone is tracked in so many ways every hour of the day that if you really think you are going to cheat more than a few minutes here or there your mistaken. Eld say I should park 15 minutes from home or it will rat me out? I'm fully capable of knowing when I've had enough after 40 plus years. Can you understand flexibility? At 67 you want me to learn Elds? I'm not illiterate or incapable of learning. After these years with a good record for myself and my drivers have I not earned some trust? You put yourself in a position of ridicule, not a place of respect. Art"

My question is how many of those complaining about ELD actually run one? I didn't know how to feel about an ELD at first but it's actually nicer than messing with a paper log... Art I hauled livestock because I loved doing it. In that line of work the truck driving is the easiest part. The long hours without sleep were taking a toll on my health so I moved on to something different. The comment about being 67 and not being able to learn an ELD is a bit much if you can navigate a forum on bulk loads, it's literally a screen on your phone that looks like a paper log....

Replied on Sat, Sep 24, 2022 at 01:12 PM CST

Nice ride Dale

Paul