Home > Forum > Overtime And Per Diem

Overtime and Per Diem

Jul 29, 2022 at 04:20 PM CST
+ 6 - 1

Hello members.

I don't know if this information will help anyone, but I hope it will, in regards to the way I do business. As most of you know, there have been discussions about overtime pay for drivers, regarding the Fair Labor Standards Act. When politicians excluded truck drivers from overtime protections in 1938, they were covered by the 1935 law that outlined their working hours. In 1966, an amendment to the FLSA again codified that truck drivers would be excluded. Organizations like the ATA have certainly not helped, with their position of drivers per mile wages increasing to help cover dead time or not paying for dead head mileage. I've found a way around this.

I have also given my nephew and his buddy raises this fiscal year. I've changed their payroll to reflect per diem, when away from home. Plus, I am now paying by the hour, with time and a half over eight, documented by their federally mandated ELD's. They are happy, because they are paid for all work performed. Driving and on-duty, not driving.

It took me quite a while to cultivate the four contracts we are working with. Has it been difficult to receive increases to our rates during this terrible economic time? You bet! But the performance my fellows have provided has been a huge help. And we continue to provide more than the 75 loads we are required to accomplish annually. Do the fellows get bored with the same runs week after week? You bet! But they fully understand that having these steady runs are worth their weight in gold.

As I said, I hope you find this interesting and helpful, whether running one rig or a small fleet. Maybe my explanation of how I do business will be thought provoking.

Replied on Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:53 PM CST
Hey Jerry. I thought your post was great. I think it's en example of excellent leadership for the industry for you to pay that way. It's really frustrating to listen to people who pay terrible wages, complain about laziness and incompetence. It comes down to a sense of entitlement. Many business owners think they are entitled to cheap labor. Thank you for moving in the right direction. Last question though...if you are now paying the drivers a per diem, where was the per diem tax break going prior to it being paid to the driver? The tax break I receive from the government for being gone overnight is HUGE. Maybe I'm misunderstanding how that tax break works for a company driver, but in my mind if a company receives the tax break and wasn't passing the pay along.... again, maybe my understanding of that tax credit is incorrect.
Replied on Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 01:41 PM CST
Quote: "Hey Jerry. I thought your post was great. I think it's en example of excellent leadership for the industry for you to pay that way. It's really frustrating to listen to people who pay terrible wages, complain about laziness and incompetence. It comes down to a sense of entitlement. Many business owners think they are entitled to cheap labor. Thank you for moving in the right direction. Last question though...if you are now paying the drivers a per diem, where was the per diem tax break going prior to it being paid to the driver? The tax break I receive from the government for being gone overnight is HUGE. Maybe I'm misunderstanding how that tax break works for a company driver, but in my mind if a company receives the tax break and wasn't passing the pay along.... again, maybe my understanding of that tax credit is incorrect."

Hello Dale,

I did not fully understand how it works either, until I spoke with my Block Accountant. The Per Diem a driver should be paid is deducted from his gross earnings. This figure is set aside and taxes are figured on his adjusted gross. (a little Less taxes being paid, for the driver and from the company.) The per diem is added at the end of his pay with a total net income for the individual. Different states allow for different rates, although most are fairly close. I am not based in Chicago / Cook County, so my allowable rate is actually $20 per day less than the $79 allowed up there. Thanks Illinois! I usually suggest most folks speak with their tax professional to receive the best information. Since my fellows run six days before spending time at home, their "away from home" per diem is based on five days. This only counts for meals. If, God forbid, they break down and must use a motel, i take care of the emergency at my desk.

Hope this makes things clearer, Dale.

Replied on Mon, Aug 01, 2022 at 07:53 AM CST
I read a article the other day how the ATA was quietly going around Washington and leaving propaganda pamphlets on everyone’s desk, proving once again how they ignore their fiduciary responsibilities to the industry. From my perspective it only makes sense to support hourly pay for company drivers since half the guys around me are currently paying their company drivers on a percentage with a 1099, and exploiting vulnerable adults, Well I’m sick of morons setting the rates.
Replied on Mon, Aug 01, 2022 at 08:44 AM CST
Iam sure you do support paying by the hour if you have no employees. Which I don't either have any
Replied on Mon, Aug 01, 2022 at 10:07 AM CST
Quote: "Iam sure you do support paying by the hour if you have no employees. Which I don't either have any"

I'm no business expert Eric, but I'll go out on a limb and guess that a business that pays their employees for all of their time worked will have far fewer employee problems than an employer that doesn't. Why anyone would be in favor of a worker not being paid for all of their time is absolutely beyond me. The business my wife and I started is teeter-tottering on needing another truck. We would have to have a driver that is 100% self-sufficient if we give them the proper resources. I'm pretty sure the only way for us to attain a driver of that caliber is to do it the way Jerry is doing it. If I cannot afford a driver of that caliber that is 100% my fault it is not the driver's fault that I can't afford them...
Replied on Mon, Aug 01, 2022 at 11:25 AM CST
Let me ask you this then I bet you will.get more work out of a guy who is getting a percentage and more motivated
Replied on Mon, Aug 01, 2022 at 11:27 AM CST
Why bring a load towards home when you get paid either way but you would think harder to take the time to get it if you get paid more and help.out your employer
Replied on Mon, Aug 01, 2022 at 11:58 AM CST
- 1

Good morning. Dale and Dave, you are absulutely correct. I did not post my information about wages until we found it was working well. One of my sisters is my finance officer and runs a tight ship with accounts receivable, payable, and wages. She read these posts and claims that I explained things fairly well. The only thing I may not have been real clear about is how the taxes are calculated with the adjusted gross, after the appropriate per diiem is deducted from the gross. I hope you fellows understood me.

And Eric is wrong with thinking this would not work for him as a single operator. Unless he does not haul longer runs where he would be gone overnight. Personally I think per diem should be available for all days worked. Afterall, a driver must eat during his last day of work, while on the road. And there is no reason why an O/O can not figure his wages on an hourly basis.

A couple of requirements I had to meet with my shippers is having trailers spotted at their facilities for loading the next loads. This way both of my men perform drop and hooks there and "get the heck out of Dodge". We also provide pallets, after doing pallet exchanges with our receivers. This also saves us some money. And, fortunately, I purchased four more refers before the "stuff" hit the fan.

By this point in time, I had hoped to be running five or six rigs. I will need to replace my 5700 Stars next year. (Good Lord, the prices!) I have been speaking with the manager of my local Mack dealer and I have the desire to purchase Anthems with the 8HE. rated at 445/1860. I have not found owners on youtube running this set up. Only a few running the 505/1860. Anyone who may provide me with information of fellows running the High Efficiant engines will be appreciated.

I do not have the time to sign in to this forum, or my DAT forum, as often as I used to. It's been nice writing to you fellows, again.

Replied on Mon, Aug 01, 2022 at 01:30 PM CST
No per diem will work for me and I do use it done it for years. I just don't think the hourly is the answer
Replied on Mon, Aug 01, 2022 at 01:30 PM CST
Per diem is nothing new for drivers or owners
Replied on Mon, Aug 01, 2022 at 02:39 PM CST
Quote: "Per diem is nothing new for drivers or owners"

That I knew. Wasn't sure of the mechanics involved with payroll until sis and I discussed it with my H & R Block pro. Did not want to make mistakes.

Replied on Mon, Aug 01, 2022 at 09:08 PM CST
- 1
Quote: "Why bring a load towards home when you get paid either way but you would think harder to take the time to get it if you get paid more and help.out your employer"

Since you brought up being fair let’s ask the question how fair is it that every other employer in the country has to pay hourly while trucking gets exemptions? What’s fair about that? The decision to come home loaded or empty is generally made by the employers in the case of Company drivers, so your comment on the subject is illogical. The good news for you is if you as a lease operator want to work for less than a company driver, you are free to do so.
Replied on Tue, Aug 02, 2022 at 08:01 AM CST
Dave you should quit trucking if so unhappy
Replied on Tue, Aug 02, 2022 at 08:49 AM CST
Quote: "Dave you should quit trucking if so unhappy"

Eric, what is your incentive to argue against better pay? This started out as a really interesting conversation about a topic that has been on my mind a lot lately. It seems really immature to tell people that disagree with you to just flat out quit. You brought up some points that I didn't think about regarding percentage pay. I disagree with you but I don't have the right to be a prick to you. I am fully willing to admit that I am inexperienced and have a lot to learn and to Jerry and Dave thanks for the good conversation. I have a few more questions I like to ask to gain some insight about what to expect if I ever acquire an employee but I know as soon as we start talking about paying that employee well it will tick some people off.
Replied on Tue, Aug 02, 2022 at 09:44 AM CST
+ 1
No. Just the whining is getting out of hand
Replied on Tue, Aug 02, 2022 at 10:00 AM CST
Pertantage will make them.work better and harder
Replied on Tue, Aug 02, 2022 at 11:05 AM CST
Eric says he’s tired of whining yet he keeps sticking around? Dale asked the question what is Eric’s incentive to argue against better pay and he appears incapable of answering it, Eric also seems to be incapable of answering how it’s fair to every other employer that they have to pay hourly while trucking gets a free pass, I can’t help but wonder how many people would want to work for a guy who argues against better pay for own industry, It also seems extremely arrogant for the people who screwed up trucking to tell the rest of us we should just quit if we don’t like how they have ruined stuff.
Replied on Tue, Aug 02, 2022 at 11:34 AM CST
I haven't ruined it better pay is good but work for it
Replied on Tue, Aug 02, 2022 at 11:34 AM CST
Life is not faiyou want everyone to get a medal
Replied on Tue, Aug 02, 2022 at 11:50 AM CST

This is pitiful... and humorous. I could throw in my two cents worth when I have nothing better to do. Jerry is on it, trying to improve their situation.

Replied on Tue, Aug 02, 2022 at 12:05 PM CST

Eric, what whining? I may not be a transportation expert, but I'm sure I'm the most experienced person on this forum. As most of the guys know, i started trucking long before you were born. I've lived through many changes, good and bad, in my career. I was dead set against de-regulation when it was passed in '78, during the Carter administration, because I knew O/O.s and small carriers where going to be screwed. Mega carriers could stand to receive a 2% clear profit on each load because of the volume of loads they would haul.

Brokers are mainly responsible for keeping rates low. Rates certainly have not increased very much over the past 44 years. Drivers have dropped from an upper middle class level to almost upper lower class levels in society. That's why I fought hard to establish contracts with my shippers with decent rates, so that I won't be screwed by some of the brokers in the industry.

When de-regulation was passed, trucking companies were forbidden to publish rates. You don't see this with other occupations in the service industry, like plumbers for example. As business members in our industry, we should be allowed to set the rates for our businesses. Not get into the race to the bottom in regards to these rates.

With bulk loads, I would love to see truckers/companies charge $48 per ton, on all commodities, or the hourly equivilent on local moves. That is not outragous as a base line. A similar situation with refer or dry vans. Just a bit lower for dry van. The trick is for all to agree, which would be like pulling teeth with tweezers.

Something needs to change with rates, as well as drivers payroll. What is working for us is not something that can not be adopted by others. Screw the governments position dating back to the 1930's.

Dale, when you are ready to expand, if I may help in anyway, you know where to find me.

Replied on Wed, Aug 03, 2022 at 10:00 AM CST
- 1
Quote: "Eric, what whining? I may not be a transportation expert, but I'm sure I'm the most experienced person on this forum. As most of the guys know, i started trucking long before you were born. I've lived through many changes, good and bad, in my career. I was dead set against de-regulation when it was passed in '78, during the Carter administration, because I knew O/O.s and small carriers where going to be screwed. Mega carriers could stand to receive a 2% clear profit on each load because of the volume of loads they would haul. Brokers are mainly responsible for keeping rates low. Rates certainly have not increased very much over the past 44 years. Drivers have dropped from an upper middle class level to almost upper lower class levels in society. That's why I fought hard to establish contracts with my shippers with decent rates, so that I won't be screwed by some of the brokers in the industry. When de-regulation was passed, trucking companies were forbidden to publish rates. You don't see this with other occupations in the service industry, like plumbers for example. As business members in our industry, we should be allowed to set the rates for our businesses. Not get into the race to the bottom in regards to these rates. With bulk loads, I would love to see truckers/companies charge $48 per ton, on all commodities, or the hourly equivilent on local moves. That is not outragous as a base line. A similar situation with refer or dry vans. Just a bit lower for dry van. The trick is for all to agree, which would be like pulling teeth with tweezers. Something needs to change with rates, as well as drivers payroll. What is working for us is not something that can not be adopted by others. Screw the governments position dating back to the 1930's. Dale, when you are ready to expand, if I may help in anyway, you know where to find me. "

Jerry I think the subject of hourly pay scares a few people for different reasons, the shippers for example fear being held accountable by a clock, they thought it was ok for you to be held accountable by one though (AKA the ELD), then there are the sloppy carriers out there who fear they won’t be able to pass that cost on to their customers, since they obviously suck at negotiation, the only thing they know how to do is cut rates and try to make up the difference by running illegally overweight and screwing the drivers, then there is the problem of the smoke and mirrors being shattered about how profitable trucking really is, if you have a standardized pay scale that is a true apple to apple comparison against other employment opportunities. I heard Schneider advertising a new hourly pay structure for all divisions the other day on road dog so it looks like the market is already moving in that direction trying to hedge their bets, so that they don’t get blind sided if this does become law, they seem to be following the blueprint landstar used to address AB5. Its always great to here from you Jerry keep the good fight going.
Replied on Wed, Aug 03, 2022 at 11:07 AM CST
Dave or Jerry. Or Dale feel free to call we can discuss this anytime [email protected] email me and I will send you my number arguing over a forum is really kinda dumb
Replied on Wed, Aug 03, 2022 at 03:12 PM CST
- 1
Quote: "Jerry I think the subject of hourly pay scares a few people for different reasons, the shippers for example fear being held accountable by a clock, they thought it was ok for you to be held accountable by one though (AKA the ELD), then there are the sloppy carriers out there who fear they won’t be able to pass that cost on to their customers, since they obviously suck at negotiation, the only thing they know how to do is cut rates and try to make up the difference by running illegally overweight and screwing the drivers, then there is the problem of the smoke and mirrors being shattered about how profitable trucking really is, if you have a standardized pay scale that is a true apple to apple comparison against other employment opportunities. I heard Schneider advertising a new hourly pay structure for all divisions the other day on road dog so it looks like the market is already moving in that direction trying to hedge their bets, so that they don’t get blind sided if this does become law, they seem to be following the blueprint landstar used to address AB5. Its always great to here from you Jerry keep the good fight going."

Thank you for the information about Schneider toying with the idea of paying hourly. i had not read about this. My nephew had been a driver for this company, before he agreed to help me build our small company. (Rob will probably inhierit the company when I meet "the great dispatcher in the sky" one day.) When we were on the phone today, he also suggested we just keep the Stars running and just repair, or rebuild the engines. as needed and i should concentrate on buing the equipment needed to expand into the dry bulk field, with the Trinity belt trailers I already have specs on. That had been my wish all along and why I have tried to keep up with things on this website.

I opened this blog with the hopes of providing food for thought for you and others, with my experience and the information on how I am doing business. Of course, I don't mind debating paying by the hour, rather than by percentages, to anyone. And meeting a shippers needs (customer satisfaction) is priority one with us.

I agree with your statement about ELD's. None of us liked being forced to use them. However, one benefit to using them, along with the programs I use, it is easy to track a driver's performance when paid on an hourly basis. Not that I would worry about Rob or Al. However, future drivers for us will be well informed about trying to steal time from us, to try to increase their wages. You will be able to do this with the future expansion of the business you and your wife have.

For your information, i was forced into early retirement do to an illness, which also ended my hobby and flight status as a private pilot. i had become very bored in retirement, which is why I got back into trucking. Shortly after opening our company, I had a stroke, followed by a heart attack. Fortunately the stoke only affected my previous military disability, that I received while serving our country, and not my brain. I don't think! Now I get around with a wheel chair, or walker for short distances. However, there is nothing wrong with my right side and believe, if I could get up in the saddle, that I can still drive a rig as well as most others. Especially since we run automatics in our tractors.

As the third generation of truckers in my family, I will continue my fight for better rates and compensation for the drivers. Before de-regulation I was running deli, sandwich meats, to Arizona and California. The rate at that time was $1.60 per mile. We hauled produce back to Jewel Foods, here in Chicago, for $1.20 per mile. Since rates have not increased by any significant amount over 44 years, this is why I am addiment about trying to get O/O's and companies to stand up for themselves and realise the need for not allowing brokers, or shippers, to run their trucking businesses.

Replied on Wed, Aug 03, 2022 at 04:27 PM CST
Then get my number Jerry feel free to email me.
Replied on Thu, Aug 04, 2022 at 07:59 AM CST
- 1
Quote: "Thank you for the information about Schneider toying with the idea of paying hourly. i had not read about this. My nephew had been a driver for this company, before he agreed to help me build our small company. (Rob will probably inhierit the company when I meet "the great dispatcher in the sky" one day.) When we were on the phone today, he also suggested we just keep the Stars running and just repair, or rebuild the engines. as needed and i should concentrate on buing the equipment needed to expand into the dry bulk field, with the Trinity belt trailers I already have specs on. That had been my wish all along and why I have tried to keep up with things on this website. I opened this blog with the hopes of providing food for thought for you and others, with my experience and the information on how I am doing business. Of course, I don't mind debating paying by the hour, rather than by percentages, to anyone. And meeting a shippers needs (customer satisfaction) is priority one with us. I agree with your statement about ELD's. None of us liked being forced to use them. However, one benefit to using them, along with the programs I use, it is easy to track a driver's performance when paid on an hourly basis. Not that I would worry about Rob or Al. However, future drivers for us will be well informed about trying to steal time from us, to try to increase their wages. You will be able to do this with the future expansion of the business you and your wife have. For your information, i was forced into early retirement do to an illness, which also ended my hobby and flight status as a private pilot. i had become very bored in retirement, which is why I got back into trucking. Shortly after opening our company, I had a stroke, followed by a heart attack. Fortunately the stoke only affected my previous military disability, that I received while serving our country, and not my brain. I don't think! Now I get around with a wheel chair, or walker for short distances. However, there is nothing wrong with my right side and believe, if I could get up in the saddle, that I can still drive a rig as well as most others. Especially since we run automatics in our tractors. As the third generation of truckers in my family, I will continue my fight for better rates and compensation for the drivers. Before de-regulation I was running deli, sandwich meats, to Arizona and California. The rate at that time was $1.60 per mile. We hauled produce back to Jewel Foods, here in Chicago, for $1.20 per mile. Since rates have not increased by any significant amount over 44 years, this is why I am addiment about trying to get O/O's and companies to stand up for themselves and realise the need for not allowing brokers, or shippers, to run their trucking businesses."

Jerry as you well know trucking and farming are very closely related, most farmers own trucks and make up a large share of the industry, the government designed it that way not realizing the fatal flaw in the system, all you have to do is look at the recent protests that started in Canada or the ones still going on in other parts of the world like the Netherlands and you see farm machinery being used to block the roads as the truckers all shut down, one group of people control both transportation and food production, so in a sense they have all the leverage needed to negotiate a fair standard of living, the tools are already in place.
Replied on Fri, Aug 05, 2022 at 04:18 PM CST

I've been a farmer my entire life,60 yrs.

A O/O only 5 yrs so I know nothing compared to you guys, but if one of the big outfits, have to start paying drivers by the hour with overtime, it's only going to be $10. a hour. It will still be what ever the rate it is to get it hauled by a broker. Nobody is going to automatically pay more because of a overtime law.

Getting my own work or off a load board, whoever is only going to pay as little as possible unless you negotiate a higher rate. Now the brokers could come off with more money since we are the ones doing the hard work.

It's a free market thing, and I wouldn't want the government in control of rates.

Like my uncle used to say to me, if you dont like your job quit and get a better one.

And with all of the protest around the world, it's a protest about government overreach into our lives.

Look up. Agenda 2030. It's a UN World order thing to reduce America's status in the name of equality.

Look up Joe's executive order#14067, money will be digitized and controlled by Claus Shwab.

You are losing your freedoms and the world will turn into a $hithole.

Replied on Fri, Aug 05, 2022 at 09:02 PM CST
Thank uou
Replied on Sat, Aug 06, 2022 at 06:00 PM CST
- 1
Quote: "I've been a farmer my entire life,60 yrs. A O/O only 5 yrs so I know nothing compared to you guys, but if one of the big outfits, have to start paying drivers by the hour with overtime, it's only going to be $10. a hour. It will still be what ever the rate it is to get it hauled by a broker. Nobody is going to automatically pay more because of a overtime law. Getting my own work or off a load board, whoever is only going to pay as little as possible unless you negotiate a higher rate. Now the brokers could come off with more money since we are the ones doing the hard work. It's a free market thing, and I wouldn't want the government in control of rates. Like my uncle used to say to me, if you dont like your job quit and get a better one. And with all of the protest around the world, it's a protest about government overreach into our lives. Look up. Agenda 2030. It's a UN World order thing to reduce America's status in the name of equality. Look up Joe's executive order#14067, money will be digitized and controlled by Claus Shwab. You are losing your freedoms and the world will turn into a $hithole."

Mike and Eric. I'm not going to pick on you guys so I'm going to pick on myself because your comments remind me of me 4 years ago. Why would Dale Hermans tell successful truckers to keep government regulation out of trucking, when Dale came from an industry that can't support itself without government help???? Why would Dale tell successful truckers to just QUIT, when Dale walked away from a business that left him 260000 in debt AFTER selling every asset I had INCLUDING my house??? Why would Dale tell them to quit whining about running cheap when I failed miserably once already?? The regulations need to be more strict on letting people gain operating authority. It protects successful people from people who run cheap and don't even realize it until the bank shuts them down. Trucking needs protection from people like Dale Hermans 4 years ago. I undercut people to gain work and did it until I couldn't afford maintenance any more.....then I lost that work because I GOT UNDERCUT!!! it's not a free market when every idiot that undercuts me goes broke and a new idiot shows up to take over. That is an industry that commits self sabotage and people like Dale 4 years ago tell the successful people they are wrong and tell them to quit because Dale was afraid to be honest with himself and admit that he couldn't compete with them. Now I sell my used tires to people like that. If a business does so poorly that it relies on employees stupid enough to not know that they are not being paid for all their time, then we need protection from that level of ignorance and laziness. Those are people looking for a trophy for last place. The last few years I've done pretty well. I am much more motivated now. I'm a much better father and husband. I have much stronger relationships with my customers so why would I walk out the door now??? You get what you pay for. As for watching the news and being afraid of your own shadow politically speaking....I quit watching the news and am no longer paranoid about government takeover and people that disagree with me because everyone I interact with personally is fantastic for the most part. I listen to ACDC. not fox or cnn.
Replied on Sun, Aug 07, 2022 at 09:41 AM CST
Like I said I gave you Dave and Jerry the option to talk. But nobody did because you wouldn't be able to talk to.let everyone see what you had to say
Replied on Sun, Aug 07, 2022 at 09:41 AM CST
Remember Dale for everyone that goes broke there is always one that's says I can do it better then the last guy. Always has been that way always will. But it's better not to listen to everyone because most of the time it's all bs that gets spewed. And the guys who have been at this along time have heard it all. No I didn't just start. Been at it for about 30 years so yes dale I have heard it all and believed very little
Replied on Sun, Aug 07, 2022 at 05:50 PM CST
Quote: "Like I said I gave you Dave and Jerry the option to talk. But nobody did because you wouldn't be able to talk to.let everyone see what you had to say"

Wrong! I haven't responded personally because IVe been too busy. Besides the fact that I don't believe I could tell you anything that I haven't expressed here. Most of the fellows I know, know I don't blow smoke up anyone's butts and try to express my expeirence that, hopefully, many will find informative, or helpful.

Nowhere in the FLSA are any statements that prohibit truck owners from paying hourly rates for hauling anywhere. Just the guidelines where paying overtime is concerned. if Schneider is toying with changing their payroll situation, I know their legal department must be well versed on the rules. My legal firm certainly is.

Protests in Canada, elsewhere in the world, or our nation never do any good because governments do not give a damn about the members in our industry, or the plight we face. And in my opinion, brokers just laugh at us. We pay the huge amounts for our equipment, insurance costs, obtaining our authorities (for running Intrastate, or Interstate) and the rediculas cost for fuel today. Yet they dictate, or offer the low rates that they are willing to pay, to have products moved all over the country. This is why obtaining contracts is the only way to go. And our industry is the only industry that has outside forces determining what we are allowed to earn.

It does not matter what segment of the trucking industry we are involved with. The only way we can gain control over what we earn, is to set our own rates again. Like before de-regulation. We are not super expensive, by any means. Just realistic about what we need to handle our loads. And since we are not allowed to publish rates, there is nothing illegal about getting a few hundred business owners together to collectively agree on a reasonable bottom rate no one would go below. A movement that could conceivably grow nationwide. Wouldn't that be nice. Anyone willing to set up some kind of trucking seminar or program? Shoot, I would be willing to act as a spokesperson to help. For free! Especially if a program could held on a Sunday, the only day I'm not real busy.

Mike stated he has been in farming for sixty years. I congratulate him on that and assume his acerage has proved to produce well and profitably. Heck, I won't celebrate my sixtieth year in this racket until next June. He did not state what authority he was operating with. We all are familiar with how many farmers across the nation haul on the cheap. As a business man I could not believe this when I first learned this fact. You would think these individuals would want their trucking business to be just as profitable as their farms. Anything less would be stupid. Ofcourse, we've also learned that many farmers around the country not only run for cheap, they do not have the authority to run for hire legally.

Paying a driver $10 per hour was a rediculas figure to speculate on. Ofcourse paying a driver an hour rate depends on the company's rates. Just as it does with paying percentages. Every company knows what it needs to earn before deciding on what they can pay a driver.

Replied on Mon, Aug 08, 2022 at 10:06 AM CST

I do have my authority, and since I farm I only run 40k miles a year. A large near by grain elevator is trying to lock up the business by running for cost and making the profit on the grain. I will only haul if it's profitable. My old T/T is payed for so I'm not desperate for work.

If I looked at my profit, and looked at the hours I actually put in, it might be $10. A hour.

You can't get blood out of turnip, but the industry has plenty of blood, and everybody wants to keep as much blood as they can.

Replied on Mon, Aug 08, 2022 at 03:38 PM CST
Quote: "I do have my authority, and since I farm I only run 40k miles a year. A large near by grain elevator is trying to lock up the business by running for cost and making the profit on the grain. I will only haul if it's profitable. My old T/T is payed for so I'm not desperate for work. If I looked at my profit, and looked at the hours I actually put in, it might be $10. A hour. You can't get blood out of turnip, but the industry has plenty of blood, and everybody wants to keep as much blood as they can. "

OMG, Mike! You may not be desperate for work, however, if you are only averaging a rate of only $10 per hour for your wages, you are a prime example of running on the cheap. Your rig is paid off? So what! Fortunately, I have been in the position of paying cash for my equipment, which saved me a lot of bucks during the purchase process. But since I have no liens on the equipment, does that mean i am going to run on the cheap? That makes no business sense at all!

When Rob and I started out, like most fellows, we used load boards. However, if I could not negotiate a rate that was at, or very close to, the minimum rate I established, I would continue to search for a load that did. Afterall, I was not able to negotiate the contracts we work with overnight.

When I was writing about the FLSA above, the exemption for truck drivers was originally written to prevent drivers from being overworked. Years later when the H.O.S. first came out, we received that protection by working 15 hours before taking the mandatory eight hours off duty. The present H.O.S. limlits a driver to eleven hours of driving, and an additional 3 hours of on-duty, not driving. Plus, the government shows prejidicial treatment to drivers with having their mandatory lunch break counting against the 14 hour clock. Here again, government intervention has screwed the trucking industry.

I suggest all research the original FLSA ruling, as well as the updated version, which really didn't change anything.

Replied on Tue, Aug 09, 2022 at 08:24 AM CST

I didn't say I made $10. A hour. As a business owner you put in more hours than just a driver. It was a figue of speech.

Replied on Tue, Aug 09, 2022 at 02:55 PM CST
Quote: "I didn't say I made $10. A hour. As a business owner you put in more hours than just a driver. It was a figue of speech. "

Sorry. That's what I assumed from your previous message.

My philosophy is, It does not matter what is placed in the box. The only thing that matters is the rate.

As a suggestion and not knowing what equipment you run, I assume you may be able to haul 25 tons. My belief is that all bulk loads should be hauled for $48 per ton, or higher, as some commodities are being hauled for that rate already. The mileage rate would be a chincy $2.5. Since rates have not increased significantly over decades, I firmly think this minimum rate for all commodities is fair. An hourly rate for local moves should be $125.00 per hour. My rates may be a bit higher than this; but, I work in a different division.

Some folks may think I'm crazy for suggesting this. But, am I really?

Replied on Tue, Aug 09, 2022 at 03:54 PM CST
Well that is not entirely true I am not hauling rock or glass or sand in my walking floor or cement junks. Some do some don't but doesn't matter the rate not worth the ware and tear some people do but k perfer not to so the rate no matter how high not going to work
Replied on Tue, Aug 09, 2022 at 03:56 PM CST
What do you not consider significant rates going up.in years. I really would like to no
Replied on Tue, Aug 09, 2022 at 04:00 PM CST
How you come up with 48 per Ton minimum sounds good but not reality.
Replied on Tue, Aug 09, 2022 at 04:07 PM CST
The 125 is getting there but still not the best
Replied on Tue, Aug 09, 2022 at 04:40 PM CST
Quote: "How you come up with 48 per Ton minimum sounds good but not reality."

Of course it is. In our area quite often corn is transported for that rate. 25 tons X $48 per ton = $1200. Running from Ottawa, ILL to Green Bay, a distance of 250 miles = $4.80 per mile. Not enough? Why would you say this is not based on reality?

Replied on Tue, Aug 09, 2022 at 09:18 PM CST
What if I haul a load 20 miles. Should it pay 48 per ton
Replied on Tue, Aug 09, 2022 at 09:18 PM CST
That is how you made it seem.48 per ton no.mattet how far
Replied on Tue, Aug 09, 2022 at 09:19 PM CST

I may not have the sharpest pencil but around here avg loads are + or - 100 miles, avg rate 14 ton, multiple loads a day, 400 miles, $1500., $3.78 a mile, $125 hour.

These loads can be had by anybody, If dedicated you could negotiate more. With the jump in fuel/ inflation rates have gone up. But profit margin for any business is always slim.

If someone has a $5000. A month truck payment they will be desperate to run and take what ever keeps their wheels rolling.

As a farmer I don't set what I get paid for my corn. I watch the market and sell the highest I think I can get from the Chicigo board of trade.

People think they are setting their rate, but it is only what the market will bear.

There is no (great) money unless it's illegal or a government contract.

Replied on Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 08:48 AM CST
Everyone says there is no unity in trucking, but every year the turnover rate hits nearly 100%, so there is plenty of unity it’s just that those of us who choose to stay are on the opposite side of it, we are the minority, at this point I am convinced that the people who caused the problem can’t be relied on to fix it, change can only come from outside our industry.
Replied on Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 11:05 AM CST

Hi Eric, a guy by the Name of Jamie Hagen of Hell Bent Express has become kind of a post child for Mack Anthem with their HE MP8, I would suggest looking him up on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. He's a great guy that loves sharing all about his fuel-sipping Mack. Pretty sure he's getting over 10 MPG loaded.

Replied on Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 11:08 AM CST
Quote: "Hi Eric, a guy by the Name of Jamie Hagen of Hell Bent Express has become kind of a post child for Mack Anthem with their HE MP8, I would suggest looking him up on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. He's a great guy that loves sharing all about his fuel-sipping Mack. Pretty sure he's getting over 10 MPG loaded. "

Sorry, meant that for Jerry.

Replied on Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 02:41 PM CST

Eric, your question of "What if I haul a load 20 miles. Should it pay 48 per ton" makes no business sense at all. That quallifies as a local / hourly move!

When configuring a rate for anything, whether agriculture, or manufacturing, you must consider every thing that's involved. The time to reach the shipper, loading time, transporting the freight, delivering the freight, and returning to your home / terminal. You have to consider everything to strive to be profitable. And pay yourself, or employees, properly. To me, ofcourse, this is only logical.

Mr. Smothers, thanks for the tip. I will research this when i have time.

Replied on Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 04:40 PM CST
Believe it or not Jerry I do consider it all I understand trucking.
Replied on Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 04:40 PM CST
No thanks will take the ton pay over hourly. It will pay more.
Replied on Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 04:40 PM CST
You do you Jerry and I will do me. You way is not the only way. Lots to consider in it all. But you don't no my rates or work load or customers. So I don't want hourly rate for short hauls lots of two way hauls hourly would be a poor choice
Replied on Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 06:56 AM CST
Quote: "You do you Jerry and I will do me. You way is not the only way. Lots to consider in it all. But you don't no my rates or work load or customers. So I don't want hourly rate for short hauls lots of two way hauls hourly would be a poor choice"

Ofcourse, Eric. Don't you feel that concerns the facts I listed above about calculating the best rate for negotiating? The distance between from point A to B is figured in. It also depends on the mileage. What do you concider the mileage to be for a local area? For the most part, I feel that $30 per ton is usually too cheap. I certainly would not take that load to somewhere like Green Bay.

A big problem I have is the fact that I negotiate for loads that I will make the best profit I can get. Since you've been in the industry for 30 years, you must have the same profit margin I do. Just do me a favor and stay in the agriculture arena.

Replied on Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 08:45 AM CST
Not all in the agriculture trucking ares
Replied on Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 08:45 AM CST
Lots of different trailers and lots of different loadd
Replied on Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 08:45 AM CST
Like I said get my number and we talk but you won't