Home > Forum > Price Per Ton, Bushel, Etc.

Price Per Ton, Bushel, Etc.

Nov 28, 2023 at 11:13 PM CST
+ 27 - 1

Hello everyone,

I’m making this post because I believe it’s important that all carriers constantly express their beliefs/opinions on what they believe is a fair rate to haul. The market is constantly being devalued and hopefully the more people who understand how to negotiate rates will keep our industry thriving. Please express your thoughts anyway you feel. If you want to give input on price per mile, price per ton, price per bushel, price per short distance vs. long distance rates. Whatever you want to discuss. I believe this will help everyone and our market from losing value.

Replied on Sat, Dec 30, 2023 at 08:12 AM CST
+ 2
Easiest way to change the rates is to stop the movement of trucks. We the drivers control the rates and if guys haul for cheap the freight will stay cheap. A lot of these companies are multi billion and million dollar companies who are all about bottom lines and are always looking for someone cheaper. However if the trucks stop and their product doesn’t move they make zero dollars. Until everyone comes together and says no to cheap freight and doesn’t haul loads and product doesn’t move only then will rates increase. They did it in the 70’s with the fuel tax strike. Trucks stopped and within 48 hours the country came to a complete halt. Guys need to realize that we control the market, unfortunately the era of the independent owner op has declined rapidly and there’s too many big name carriers out there with hundreds of power units who will literally haul just to pay for the fuel in the truck and the drivers wages for the day. Hence why rates will never get back to what they used to be
Replied on Mon, Jan 01, 2024 at 07:58 AM CST

The original poster is just fishing. You can find current trucking (dry van, reefer, flatbed) rate summaries on load boards such as DAT. Bulk freight rates are a little tougher to grasp because Bulk Loads does not track rates. Shippers and brokers that are willing to pay up and timely will always get a truck.

Replied on Mon, Jan 01, 2024 at 07:59 AM CST
Quote: "Easiest way to change the rates is to stop the movement of trucks. We the drivers control the rates and if guys haul for cheap the freight will stay cheap. A lot of these companies are multi billion and million dollar companies who are all about bottom lines and are always looking for someone cheaper. However if the trucks stop and their product doesn’t move they make zero dollars. Until everyone comes together and says no to cheap freight and doesn’t haul loads and product doesn’t move only then will rates increase. They did it in the 70’s with the fuel tax strike. Trucks stopped and within 48 hours the country came to a complete halt. Guys need to realize that we control the market, unfortunately the era of the independent owner op has declined rapidly and there’s too many big name carriers out there with hundreds of power units who will literally haul just to pay for the fuel in the truck and the drivers wages for the day. Hence why rates will never get back to what they used to be"

I've been at this for nearly 30 years and watch my "bottom line" pretty closely. What is the lowest rate I should be allowed to charge? Or the highest for that matter?

Replied on Mon, Jan 01, 2024 at 12:57 PM CST
Quote: "Easiest way to change the rates is to stop the movement of trucks. We the drivers control the rates and if guys haul for cheap the freight will stay cheap. A lot of these companies are multi billion and million dollar companies who are all about bottom lines and are always looking for someone cheaper. However if the trucks stop and their product doesn’t move they make zero dollars. Until everyone comes together and says no to cheap freight and doesn’t haul loads and product doesn’t move only then will rates increase. They did it in the 70’s with the fuel tax strike. Trucks stopped and within 48 hours the country came to a complete halt. Guys need to realize that we control the market, unfortunately the era of the independent owner op has declined rapidly and there’s too many big name carriers out there with hundreds of power units who will literally haul just to pay for the fuel in the truck and the drivers wages for the day. Hence why rates will never get back to what they used to be"

EVEN if O/O stop its going to make a difference ,the best would be to get drivers that relize these companies are bending them over to

Another good reason to stop is fuel prices would drop also

The problem with trucking is to many say they cant stop and are afraid to lose their jobs ,O/O need relize the banks dont want your truck they will work with you if you shut down for a few days , company drivers need to grow a set and relize the company needs you worse than you need them

The trucking industry could be the most powerful organiation in the USA if they band together and VOTE we would have more influnence than the NRA

Being we are basically the hearbeat of this nation no matter what kind of business you are in trucks influnence it one way or the other as do fuel prices

When towards the end of the comes and you are fueling O/O OR drivers look at the amount of across the nation that is being pumped into to trucks

Imagine 2-3-4 days shut down how much fuel there would be not sold ,plus the supply chain at a stand still

Ive worked as driver for a company where a gal running it shorting every one hours , tried to get guys together and shut her down ,there were about 32 trucks I tried explain all we had to do was call the state ,but every said there wouldnt do anything , i said I awould do all the paper work neccasary

and could only get a few that would sign or talk with the state , excuses were I need this job or nothing will happen etc etc , i just confronted her told her she had until next pay day to pay me and then called the State they called eventally cuz my hrs were right plus the hrs she had shorted me

I had to this with another company a little difference scenio but called the State and had a check within 2 weeks , so imagine the power and the results

if you had a organization behind you, so if start to vote no matter party I believe it would make a difference ,that one crazy guy that went I 80 some how relized how big that trucking industry is I could go on and on here but I need to find load ,which just bought to mind factoring companies which

in my opinion should be outlawed and there should a law that companies have T pay with a 2 week period at very longest or be charged so much pay day ,I'm nobody's banker and i need to put fuel in every at astronicmal prices ( just a note spelling lol ,I didnt win no spelling bee contest ) lol

Replied on Mon, Jan 01, 2024 at 12:58 PM CST
If we want rates to get fairly better, as someone said owner operators must unite. To make an impact would be achieved by all owner operators take a couple of days of holidays ...... at the same time and date! Everybody can imagine how quickly brokers will want to negociate! Just good for thought!
Replied on Mon, Jan 01, 2024 at 05:47 PM CST
Quote: "EVEN if O/O stop its going to make a difference ,the best would be to get drivers that relize these companies are bending them over to Another good reason to stop is fuel prices would drop also The problem with trucking is to many say they cant stop and are afraid to lose their jobs ,O/O need relize the banks dont want your truck they will work with you if you shut down for a few days , company drivers need to grow a set and relize the company needs you worse than you need them The trucking industry could be the most powerful organiation in the USA if they band together and VOTE we would have more influnence than the NRA Being we are basically the hearbeat of this nation no matter what kind of business you are in trucks influnence it one way or the other as do fuel prices When towards the end of the comes and you are fueling O/O OR drivers look at the amount of across the nation that is being pumped into to trucks Imagine 2-3-4 days shut down how much fuel there would be not sold ,plus the supply chain at a stand still Ive worked as driver for a company where a gal running it shorting every one hours , tried to get guys together and shut her down ,there were about 32 trucks I tried explain all we had to do was call the state ,but every said there wouldnt do anything , i said I awould do all the paper work neccasary and could only get a few that would sign or talk with the state , excuses were I need this job or nothing will happen etc etc , i just confronted her told her she had until next pay day to pay me and then called the State they called eventally cuz my hrs were right plus the hrs she had shorted me I had to this with another company a little difference scenio but called the State and had a check within 2 weeks , so imagine the power and the results if you had a organization behind you, so if start to vote no matter party I believe it would make a difference ,that one crazy guy that went I 80 some how relized how big that trucking industry is I could go on and on here but I need to find load ,which just bought to mind factoring companies which in my opinion should be outlawed and there should a law that companies have T pay with a 2 week period at very longest or be charged so much pay day ,I'm nobody's banker and i need to put fuel in every at astronicmal prices ( just a note spelling lol ,I didnt win no spelling bee contest ) lol "

My truck hasn't moved since the 15th of December. My miles for 2023 are down 14% from my average. So I've done my part. I hope my actions have helped others achieve the higher rates and lower fuel prices they "need".

Replied on Mon, Jan 01, 2024 at 06:19 PM CST
+ 2

The old "Rates are not good enough debate"! Im trying to decide how long to make this.....

Lets talk regulation! So we want some help to regulate rates? First from who? A government agency? We already grumble about H O S and weight restrictions, so adding in another governing body will only highten the head ache. If we all have to haul for some agreed apon rate it doesnt help one bit. A company that can run efficiently, ( mechanicly *high fuel mileage and low repair / maintnance cost, lower equipment cost*, low office/management cost, buying power and low, or no finance cost, and great driver insentive programs ) will just eat up all of the work. They already do in the general frieght world what would stop them from the hopper / ag side of the road. This will open the door to competition, and this breaks it off the hinges. Efficient companies will gobble up the work as the shippers will love the ease of making one phone call or email to get product moved. Also one thing large companies get done is contracting work, and leaves the owner operator out of the equation as their will be no spot market. You can also relate this to big box stores ( Wal Mart ) having to have and carry same prices as small mom and pop stores. You give no help to the small guy as efficiency and buying power are different for both players and game advantage goes to the bigger player.

Now lets talk all going on strike to provoke some panic to the shippers or receivers! Im all about a brother hood and riding for the brand, but it just simply is to big of an industry to band together. I know that sounds like giving up, but organization of an ag frieght industry revolt or union is just simply going to look like a circus full of Orangutans. Who is going to be the leader, and the communications / media relations correspondent, and on and on and on. And once a chain of command is designed, you think whatever ungodly number of truckers in the ag industry is going to all agree on the organization? This is where the ones who dont have a issue with the rates will just keep working away while the rest of the clowns argue about why we cant start the strike tommorrow, and the other half want to start it in two weeks so they can finish the job that they are on.

I can keep going and I am open to debate, but the simple answer is, is if you cant make your pencil and paper show a profit before you load the wagon, its not going to work and you better find the stinky apple in the basket that is not making it work for you. Is your equipment cost to high? Your repairs/ maintnance really high? Your living expense eating up your profit? Several possiblities to which it is. Every truck operates at a different financial profit or loss. Even with in a multi truck company, and the factors that play into this equation are endless. Free market is free market. Supply ( trucks on the road) and demand ( loads that need hauld) is the only thing that will influence the rates. You dont hear brokers banging the same story as the truckers. They are not crying for equal rates and equal pay. They come and go in and out of the business just as fast as trucking companies, and they understand it. Business is the last thing anyone is taught anymore. And business is the game. Trucking is no longer a life style or cool, its straight up business, and a dirty business. Long haul, or short haul, no cookie cutter model is going to work for us all at once. I just told a young kid the other day who is wanting to start out to look at the $20k dollar plastic truck rather than the $60k cool Peterbilt he is wanting to start out with. The first thing that is going to drag him out onto the late payment list is the $40k extra start up cost just to look good and say i drive a Peterbilt. If you want to be a truck driver, be a business owner first. The pencil and paper is your cheapest, most valuble piece of equipment.

All I have for know........

Replied on Tue, Jan 02, 2024 at 07:22 AM CST
Quote: "EVEN if O/O stop its going to make a difference ,the best would be to get drivers that relize these companies are bending them over to Another good reason to stop is fuel prices would drop also The problem with trucking is to many say they cant stop and are afraid to lose their jobs ,O/O need relize the banks dont want your truck they will work with you if you shut down for a few days , company drivers need to grow a set and relize the company needs you worse than you need them The trucking industry could be the most powerful organiation in the USA if they band together and VOTE we would have more influnence than the NRA Being we are basically the hearbeat of this nation no matter what kind of business you are in trucks influnence it one way or the other as do fuel prices When towards the end of the comes and you are fueling O/O OR drivers look at the amount of across the nation that is being pumped into to trucks Imagine 2-3-4 days shut down how much fuel there would be not sold ,plus the supply chain at a stand still Ive worked as driver for a company where a gal running it shorting every one hours , tried to get guys together and shut her down ,there were about 32 trucks I tried explain all we had to do was call the state ,but every said there wouldnt do anything , i said I awould do all the paper work neccasary and could only get a few that would sign or talk with the state , excuses were I need this job or nothing will happen etc etc , i just confronted her told her she had until next pay day to pay me and then called the State they called eventally cuz my hrs were right plus the hrs she had shorted me I had to this with another company a little difference scenio but called the State and had a check within 2 weeks , so imagine the power and the results if you had a organization behind you, so if start to vote no matter party I believe it would make a difference ,that one crazy guy that went I 80 some how relized how big that trucking industry is I could go on and on here but I need to find load ,which just bought to mind factoring companies which in my opinion should be outlawed and there should a law that companies have T pay with a 2 week period at very longest or be charged so much pay day ,I'm nobody's banker and i need to put fuel in every at astronicmal prices ( just a note spelling lol ,I didnt win no spelling bee contest ) lol "

In theory alone, a shut down would work to improve rates and lower fuel. It would have to as the supply of trucks would go down, raising the rates, and the demand for fuel would go down, lowering the cost. Here’s the problem with that theory- the day the shutdown ends and everyone goes back to work, rates and fuel prices will go back to where they were before the shut down because the supply and demand curve will be back where it was originally. There would be no lasting impact and the fear of another shutdown would not affect the return to normal as supply and demand are not affected by fear.
Replied on Tue, Jan 02, 2024 at 12:14 PM CST
- 1
If you want to reduce the supply then you need to make trucking appear less attractive, how do you do that? Stop Lying to everyone about how great trucking is, but most wont do that because once they do that they have no status, they need others to believe the big lie as much as they do, most immerse themselves in confirmation bias, trucking has a lot in common with chemical dependency........ I personally believe you need to lead by example and become the change you wish to see.
Replied on Wed, Jan 03, 2024 at 08:23 AM CST
Quote: "If you want to reduce the supply then you need to make trucking appear less attractive, how do you do that? Stop Lying to everyone about how great trucking is, but most wont do that because once they do that they have no status, they need others to believe the big lie as much as they do, most immerse themselves in confirmation bias, trucking has a lot in common with chemical dependency........ I personally believe you need to lead by example and become the change you wish to see."

Perception. You are correct. I see and hear things that are a real head scratcher.

Replied on Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 03:41 PM CST

Truck Drivers only control their Trucks.

The INDUSTRY is multifacted and affected by many things not just carriers/truck drivers.

Each aspect of the Industry has its own unique set of pros and cons.

The main issue I see with Truckers and rates is that most truckers are great at truck things but very poor with business things.

They do not switch to their business hat when it comes to the money part of their business expecting the government and Brokers to do it for them.

That is not going to happen in this free market economy because it is not good business.

Replied on Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 08:00 AM CST

You want to understand how to do this pricing in trucking okay, but you should have learned all this in grade school folks. If you start off with 10 apples and you must have 2 apples to eat per day, 4 apples to feed the horse per day, 3 apples to give to the tax collector per day, and 3 more apples to pay to keep your apple cart moving. You're done after the first day.

You see this is the problem with most of the industry. They haven’t figured out how to add up all their expenses, and yes, I mean all their expenses. For those that are wondering, there is some great software out there to help you do this. I personally run the trucking office software from www.truckingoffice.com and then I also run QuickBooks online for my accountant to be able to access and do the taxes at the end of the year. The trucking office software imports into QuickBooks very easily. So that part is seamless. I also have a spreadsheet I made so that I can look and see what rate I must have for the miles to be profitable. And these rates are for bushel of whatever, per ton for light and heavy weight commodities, and end dump rates which you can’t haul as much as a hopper, power only, etc. And I can look at my numbers at anytime and know if I’m losing money or not. But too many get into this without knowing the first thing about running a business. They think because they can turn a wheel and push some pedals that they can be an owner operator or worse yet a lease operator. Yes, most lease operators fail because they have zero idea about business, they just see the larger rate per mile and the company strings them along like the horse and carrot until they are eating 1 meal a week of ramen and living in their truck.

Looking at last year’s numbers compared to ’22 we ran 10 percent less because of rates. Was a little more profitable but that was only due to repairs being down from ’22. Fuel is only down $0.20 per mile for this year from last. But the rates are down on average $0.56 per mile. And we have all seen the increase in consumer goods i.e. grocery, tires, etc. (Yet we see all these reports of record profits. Well Cargill, ADM, Andersons, Louis Dreyfus, Bunge, Country view, Ardent Mills, ConAgra, Nestle, Kraft, Hershey, Berkshire Hathaway, BP, Kroger, Wal-Mart, Amazon, PepsiCo, Tyson, Etc. I could keep going and going just look up the largest companies in the us by revenue. You’ll see all the companies we as truck drivers haul from them.) But we aren’t seeing the rate increases needed to keep everything afloat. So, what happens, folks go bankrupt every day. We are seeing a mass exodus of carriers as far as numbers being under revocation with the DOT. Yes, this could be from not being compliant, but it’s also those that are selling their equipment.

So, learn your numbers and then start running your business.

Replied on Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 08:42 AM CST

Micheal, you make a great point. Understanding your numbers are key in running a prosperous business. BulkTMS checks all of the boxes when it comes to keeping up to date with your rates. And the nice thing, it is an all-in-one system. Build your lanes, create invoices, check past rate data, all through one platform when you have BulkTMS. You can even preset your commodities for billing...so if you haul fertilizer paid by the ton on origin weight, all you have to do is type in your net weight and BulkTMS will convert all of the info for billing.

www.bulktms.com

Replied on Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 08:28 AM CST
Quote: "Micheal, you make a great point. Understanding your numbers are key in running a prosperous business. BulkTMS checks all of the boxes when it comes to keeping up to date with your rates. And the nice thing, it is an all-in-one system. Build your lanes, create invoices, check past rate data, all through one platform when you have BulkTMS. You can even preset your commodities for billing...so if you haul fertilizer paid by the ton on origin weight, all you have to do is type in your net weight and BulkTMS will convert all of the info for billing. www.bulktms.com"

I just looked at this. Wow is all I can say. I don't even pay a 30% of the price for Bulktms+ as I do www.truckingoffice.com. At 2 grand y'all are awfully proud of that software. I still have to pay for the QuickBooks but that combined doesn't cost me those prices. Thanks for the offer but I'll keep the money in my pockets for now.
Replied on Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 11:09 AM CST
Quote: "I just looked at this. Wow is all I can say. I don't even pay a 30% of the price for Bulktms+ as I do www.truckingoffice.com. At 2 grand y'all are awfully proud of that software. I still have to pay for the QuickBooks but that combined doesn't cost me those prices. Thanks for the offer but I'll keep the money in my pockets for now."

This pricing does include your membership to the load board as well. BulkTMS is an in depth software primarily built for 3+ truck operations. In a lot of instances, it has even served as a replacement for quickbooks with our receivables features. Hauling bulk commodities creates billing needs that most of your traditional trucking softwares struggle to understand.