Home > Forum > So Where The Hell Is The Money?

so where the hell is the money?

Mar 28, 2018 at 09:44 PM CST
+ 12 - 12
We see all these news articles, where shippers tell us that rates have doubled or trippled, and they still can not find trucks. When the normal L/T ratios are 2-3 loads per truck this time of year, and typically pays 2 bucks a mile, we are now only seeing 2.40 per mile, (National average) for flat beds when the current L/T ratio for flatbed is well over 90:1 ? Shouldn't the carrier be seeing a perportional increase? Brokers are getting rich off this ELD mandate, but the truckers are still getting screwed.
Replied on Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 01:55 PM CST
- 2
I have seen a few loads I inquired about in the last 30-40 days have a slight rate increase in the last week. I'd guess it's due to poor weather conditions and time constraints. But I find it interesting that a few people thumbs down your comment without holding a discussion. I'm assuming those are brokers....not saying it's bad that someone disagrees and does a thumbs down, but I've tried to engage in a discussion about why they support the eld, and where the rate increases are, but they don't seem interested.

So let's here it brokers? Why the thumbs down to us greedy truckers wanting a measly 2 bucks a mile? And why are you in favor of our work ethic being government regulated?

Thanks for your input
Replied on Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 03:00 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "I have seen a few loads I inquired about in the last 30-40 days have a slight rate increase in the last week. I'd guess it's due to poor weather conditions and time constraints. But I find it interesting that a few people thumbs down your comment without holding a discussion. I'm assuming those are brokers....not saying it's bad that someone disagrees and does a thumbs down, but I've tried to engage in a discussion about why they support the eld, and where the rate increases are, but they don't seem interested. So let's here it brokers? Why the thumbs down to us greedy truckers wanting a measly 2 bucks a mile? And why are you in favor of our work ethic being government regulated? Thanks for your input "

I don't think you're going to get much of an argument from them!
Replied on Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 03:33 PM CST
+ 13
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "I have seen a few loads I inquired about in the last 30-40 days have a slight rate increase in the last week. I'd guess it's due to poor weather conditions and time constraints. But I find it interesting that a few people thumbs down your comment without holding a discussion. I'm assuming those are brokers....not saying it's bad that someone disagrees and does a thumbs down, but I've tried to engage in a discussion about why they support the eld, and where the rate increases are, but they don't seem interested. So let's here it brokers? Why the thumbs down to us greedy truckers wanting a measly 2 bucks a mile? And why are you in favor of our work ethic being government regulated? Thanks for your input "

Yeah I am a broker. In no way do I condemn your wanting better rates. In fact I push like hell to get rates up but I find that CARRIERS are the ones that are continually cutting everyone else's throats as far as rates go. Take a look at Catoosa and Inola. Dasco BenTrei and Gavilon have no trouble finding CARRIERS to haul that stuff for $1.15-$1.30/mi on that. I have no problem telling all 3 of them that they are too cheeeeep and have told them that many many times. I have never been really bashful about calling a spade a spade and I have no problem at this time saying that not all brokers are lining their pockets off the backs of the carriers that run for them. I have seen some serious skimming off the top of a big rate in my illustrious career but I have also seen CARRIERS that have no clue as to what it take to operate their trucks correctly. I see absolutely no need for this ELD garbage. My drivers are pretty much intelligent enough to know when they are tired and know when to stop and take a break. It doesn't take some educated idiot in a $500 dollar suit from Washington to tell them that. If you want to gripe about the eld, get on the phone and burn up your congressperson's phone line, flood his mailbox with complaints or blow up his e mail with complaints. Don't lay it all at the feet of brokers. Unless you get off your duff and raise hell where it will do some good, nothing will be done about it and this web site will continue to be the broker bashing site it has become. We all need to work together to get this nonsense corrected and not do the finger pointing thing . Raise hell where it counts.
Replied on Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 03:40 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "I have seen a few loads I inquired about in the last 30-40 days have a slight rate increase in the last week. I'd guess it's due to poor weather conditions and time constraints. But I find it interesting that a few people thumbs down your comment without holding a discussion. I'm assuming those are brokers....not saying it's bad that someone disagrees and does a thumbs down, but I've tried to engage in a discussion about why they support the eld, and where the rate increases are, but they don't seem interested. So let's here it brokers? Why the thumbs down to us greedy truckers wanting a measly 2 bucks a mile? And why are you in favor of our work ethic being government regulated? Thanks for your input "

The ELD is supported by the brokers, as well as the shippers, and receivers. I have asked myself the same question, Why are they not crying wolf like the rest of us? I did a little research, I came up with what they call Blockchain Technology, keep in mind the ELD is just the first step. What this does is it allows everyone in the chain, from the broker, to the shipper and receiver up to the minute tracking. It is supposed to be unhackable data transfer technology, as far as im concerned a good hacker can do anything. Look it up for yourself, this is a interesting subject on our future in Trucking. It seems that they want to micro manage transportation, shipping as well as trucking. Imagine all the trucks on the road being micro manged like the big carriers do to theres, now we can dictate what you make. This takes the free market away, everybody gets there product hauled cheap. Its a little early to retire, but Im glad that date getting close.
Replied on Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 06:56 PM CST
+ 2 - 1
If your waiting for a broker to increase the rate for you, it will never happen. On all brokered loads my trucks have covered this week,. Have been double or triple the original rate the broker offered, Its all in the negotion. Many of you cry about the broker robbing you, and want to cut him out. then Cry about apps like uber or block chain.
$2 a mile? lmao that better be a round trip rate. and im load the wagon on the return every chance i get. If your running for cheap its nobodies fault but your own.
Replied on Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 07:19 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "Yeah I am a broker. In no way do I condemn your wanting better rates. In fact I push like hell to get rates up but I find that CARRIERS are the ones that are continually cutting everyone else's throats as far as rates go. Take a look at Catoosa and Inola. Dasco BenTrei and Gavilon have no trouble finding CARRIERS to haul that stuff for $1.15-$1.30/mi on that. I have no problem telling all 3 of them that they are too cheeeeep and have told them that many many times. I have never been really bashful about calling a spade a spade and I have no problem at this time saying that not all brokers are lining their pockets off the backs of the carriers that run for them. I have seen some serious skimming off the top of a big rate in my illustrious career but I have also seen CARRIERS that have no clue as to what it take to operate their trucks correctly. I see absolutely no need for this ELD garbage. My drivers are pretty much intelligent enough to know when they are tired and know when to stop and take a break. It doesn't take some educated idiot in a $500 dollar suit from Washington to tell them that. If you want to gripe about the eld, get on the phone and burn up your congressperson's phone line, flood his mailbox with complaints or blow up his e mail with complaints. Don't lay it all at the feet of brokers. Unless you get off your duff and raise hell where it will do some good, nothing will be done about it and this web site will continue to be the broker bashing site it has become. We all need to work together to get this nonsense corrected and not do the finger pointing thing . Raise hell where it counts. "

You make awesome points. I apologise for pointing a finger at you or brokers in general. That was not my intention. I get a bit wound up when someone emails me a quote of 22 dollars per ton for shipping, but pays me 17. Not your fault. Not all brokers are in that category. Again i apologise. I just wanted a conversation with a real person. i have contactedd my SD congressmen and women and ND, can't even get a reply. I agree we need to work together. I'm adamantly against eld. I don't intend to blame brokers.

I appreciate the conversation

Replied on Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 09:10 PM CST
A small carrier only moves a few loads a day, so they don't have much of a impact on the market. Some of these brokers are moving the same amount of loads every 5 miniutes, and their the ones setting the rates for the market, so they bear a greater responsibility for the rates. Brokers like ELD's because they provide a justification for higher rates, they use them as a marketing tool to provide leverage in a negotiation with a shipper. It's the perfect excuse to make the case for higher rates. I have never been one to bash brokers in the past, but lately it's getting real hard to look the other way. Everywhere we look, we see these stories in the news where shippers are telling us that they are paying 2-3 times as much for freight today, as they were 6 months ago. (General Mills, and Tyson foods for example.) So why haven't brokers raised our rates accordingly? If we were getting 2 bucks a mile 6 months ago, And the shippers are telling us that they are now paying the brokers 2-3 times as much today, we carriers should be seeing 4-6 bucks a mile right now. So where is it?
Replied on Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 10:30 PM CST
+ 2
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "A small carrier only moves a few loads a day, so they don't have much of a impact on the market. Some of these brokers are moving the same amount of loads every 5 miniutes, and their the ones setting the rates for the market, so they bear a greater responsibility for the rates. Brokers like ELD's because they provide a justification for higher rates, they use them as a marketing tool to provide leverage in a negotiation with a shipper. It's the perfect excuse to make the case for higher rates. I have never been one to bash brokers in the past, but lately it's getting real hard to look the other way. Everywhere we look, we see these stories in the news where shippers are telling us that they are paying 2-3 times as much for freight today, as they were 6 months ago. (General Mills, and Tyson foods for example.) So why haven't brokers raised our rates accordingly? If we were getting 2 bucks a mile 6 months ago, And the shippers are telling us that they are now paying the brokers 2-3 times as much today, we carriers should be seeing 4-6 bucks a mile right now. So where is it? "

Ok ill have to agree there are some bad brokers out there, but there are some good ones too. But if its to cheap dont haul it till the rates come up go do something else. If the flatbed is so good why dont you go do that then instead of the dry bulk. And if they excempt the ag for year like i've been hearing then you wont see a big rate jump like the flatbed freight. When fuel was over 4.00 gallon back in 08 you didnt see no 6 dollar freight unles you were in the oil field.I seen little 4..00 dollar freight in bulk but not like it should been. And when it gets to high in price to truck it what do you the the shipper will do put it on rail. They might have to put a few loads on truck but they will ship most on rail. i've seen it happen to many times i would like 4 @ mile and 1 gallon fuel don't see that happing either. I am not tring to piss you or anyone off but i cant see shippers or costomers, feedmills or dairys ever pay that kind of rate for feed. And there is to many grain haulers out there thats doing it way to cheap and all you can do is either watch them go broke and waite for the customer to call you back or go find something else to do. Well i am sure i will get the riot act on this but its my to cents worth.
Replied on Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 12:39 AM CST
Originally Posted by: JODY SHELLITO
Quote: "Ok ill have to agree there are some bad brokers out there, but there are some good ones too. But if its to cheap dont haul it till the rates come up go do something else. If the flatbed is so good why dont you go do that then instead of the dry bulk. And if they excempt the ag for year like i've been hearing then you wont see a big rate jump like the flatbed freight. When fuel was over 4.00 gallon back in 08 you didnt see no 6 dollar freight unles you were in the oil field.I seen little 4..00 dollar freight in bulk but not like it should been. And when it gets to high in price to truck it what do you the the shipper will do put it on rail. They might have to put a few loads on truck but they will ship most on rail. i've seen it happen to many times i would like 4 @ mile and 1 gallon fuel don't see that happing either. I am not tring to piss you or anyone off but i cant see shippers or costomers, feedmills or dairys ever pay that kind of rate for feed. And there is to many grain haulers out there thats doing it way to cheap and all you can do is either watch them go broke and waite for the customer to call you back or go find something else to do. Well i am sure i will get the riot act on this but its my to cents worth. "

You didn't see 6 dollar a mile freight 2008, because we were in the height of the recession. There were 10 trucks fighting over one load of freight, where as today you have the opposite, you have a abundance of freight, and a shortage of trucks. The L/T ratios have never been this high, we are breaking new ground, just like the stock market. The railroads are currently pushed to the limit, and have started raising their rates, based on what they see going on with us truckers, and the overly strong demand. But let's say for the sake of argument that you are right, and nobody can afford this high priced freight, then we now have a massive problem, because it's already backing up on the shippers dock right now, faster than they can get rid of it, and if the truckers won't do it any cheaper? The brokers are likely to find themselves in the crosshairs next, as many shippers are now complaining to congress that the money they are paying the brokers is not making it to the truckers, and as a result all of the drivers are leaving the industry, thereby harming the shippers business. Will rate transparency become mandatory? Everyone seems to forget, the shippers represent management, they are the Job creators, the rest of us be it broker, or carrier are nothing more than hired help.
Replied on Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 01:23 AM CST
BTW Jody, I agree with you that not all brokers are bad, I have worked with some of the best. But sadly there are enough bad apples out there, that poisoned the well for everyone.
Replied on Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 10:46 AM CST
+ 2
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "A small carrier only moves a few loads a day, so they don't have much of a impact on the market. Some of these brokers are moving the same amount of loads every 5 miniutes, and their the ones setting the rates for the market, so they bear a greater responsibility for the rates. Brokers like ELD's because they provide a justification for higher rates, they use them as a marketing tool to provide leverage in a negotiation with a shipper. It's the perfect excuse to make the case for higher rates. I have never been one to bash brokers in the past, but lately it's getting real hard to look the other way. Everywhere we look, we see these stories in the news where shippers are telling us that they are paying 2-3 times as much for freight today, as they were 6 months ago. (General Mills, and Tyson foods for example.) So why haven't brokers raised our rates accordingly? If we were getting 2 bucks a mile 6 months ago, And the shippers are telling us that they are now paying the brokers 2-3 times as much today, we carriers should be seeing 4-6 bucks a mile right now. So where is it? "

If Tyson and General Mills are offering those kind of rates, I haven't seen them. I bark at them continually about being the cheapest places around. Go into any Tyson plant and you wait forever to load or unload. Pull by product out of General Mills and it is pretty much the same deal. Fight like hell to get them to even consider detention because "that's the way it is in this business". The General Mills plants normally have appointments to load but that is a total crock. The appointment only matters if the truck is a little late getting there. Then all hell breaks loose. If my truck sits for 7 or 8 hours its "we are running on stream and it takes awhile to make the product" How many times have we all heard that. As far as brokers liking ELD's, you are talking to the wrong people. The one's I work with have as big of a disdain for them as I do. They are a pain in the butt for everyone concerned. Again, raise hell where it counts. Bombard your representatives with complaints. Coming on a forum like this and bashing everyone in site does absolutely no good. Kick butt on the people that actually have the power to get something done.
Replied on Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 11:37 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "If Tyson and General Mills are offering those kind of rates, I haven't seen them. I bark at them continually about being the cheapest places around. Go into any Tyson plant and you wait forever to load or unload. Pull by product out of General Mills and it is pretty much the same deal. Fight like hell to get them to even consider detention because "that's the way it is in this business". The General Mills plants normally have appointments to load but that is a total crock. The appointment only matters if the truck is a little late getting there. Then all hell breaks loose. If my truck sits for 7 or 8 hours its "we are running on stream and it takes awhile to make the product" How many times have we all heard that. As far as brokers liking ELD's, you are talking to the wrong people. The one's I work with have as big of a disdain for them as I do. They are a pain in the butt for everyone concerned. Again, raise hell where it counts. Bombard your representatives with complaints. Coming on a forum like this and bashing everyone in site does absolutely no good. Kick butt on the people that actually have the power to get something done. "

Duane, you seem to forget that many of the meggafleets are also brokers, like Cr England, JB hunt, etc, and they were big supporters of the ELD, so it's a falsehood when you say that none of you brokers supported it. And you have just admitted that ELD's have done nothing for your trucks, General Mills still detains them, and you are unable to collect any detention pay. (Your own words). We just seen a article over in the news section last week, where General Mills said their profits dropped 9% because of rate increases, and a couple of weeks back There was a article where Tyson foods alone will be paying out 200 million dollars more for trucks this year. Now are you calling all of those folks liers? Now why are SOME of you brokers so upset that us truckers are noticing these news articles, and talking about them? How are we bashing anyone by asking questions? And did not us truckers contact our representatives, hold protests and form organizations like ELD or me? And what about that listening session last week with FMCSA at the MATS truck show, did we not raise hell?
Replied on Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 12:01 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Duane, you seem to forget that many of the meggafleets are also brokers, like Cr England, JB hunt, etc, and they were big supporters of the ELD, so it's a falsehood when you say that none of you brokers supported it. And you have just admitted that ELD's have done nothing for your trucks, General Mills still detains them, and you are unable to collect any detention pay. (Your own words). We just seen a article over in the news section last week, where General Mills said their profits dropped 9% because of rate increases, and a couple of weeks back There was a article where Tyson foods alone will be paying out 200 million dollars more for trucks this year. Now are you calling all of those folks liers? Now why are SOME of you brokers so upset that us truckers are noticing these news articles, and talking about them? How are we bashing anyone by asking questions? And did not us truckers contact our representatives, hold protests and form organizations like ELD or me? And what about that listening session last week with FMCSA at the MATS truck show, did we not raise hell? "

You are the one that said all brokers supported it. the first statement in your reply is also a falsehood. Not ALL brokers support the eld. I saw the same article you did and when I approached the people I work with at General Mills and Tyson about that, they pretty much laughed and said the rates were what the rates were. Yeah they were paying higher rates on finished products that are hauled in Vans or Reefers but the bulk commodities were pretty much the same. Why you may ask????? Because Carriers are cutting each other's throats trying to hold on to something that is too cheep in the first place. As far as brokers being ticked about truckers noticing these articles I applaud you for being so observant. I have no problem with a truck telling me a load I am offering is too thin for them to haul it. It shows they are paying attention to what they need to operate profitably. The thing that gripes me more than anything is someone coming in with a mass statement that Brokers are the cause of all Carriers problems. That would be like me saying you are a rate cutting low life when I have no idea who you are or how you operate. We need more people voicing an opinion on issues like this. Did you notice how many people responded to the open response opportunity over the past several years on the eld issue? Not very many. Yeah I read the stories about the FMCSA listening sessions at MATS. Sounds like Scott got a little revved up and walked out. There needs to be more and more sessions like this. The industry as a whole needs to pound on the fact that we need people with firsthand knowlege of how our industry works to be in charge of agencies and departments like FMCSA and the Dept. of Transportation. Professional politicians could care less about what the little guy says. Independants and brokers need to get together on some sort of agenda to make our voices heard. Read your statements that you made previous about brokers making a killing off truckers. It appears that you accept the privelege of lumping all brokers into one category but take offense when someone disagrees with your position.

Replied on Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 01:04 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "You are the one that said all brokers supported it. the first statement in your reply is also a falsehood. Not ALL brokers support the eld. I saw the same article you did and when I approached the people I work with at General Mills and Tyson about that, they pretty much laughed and said the rates were what the rates were. Yeah they were paying higher rates on finished products that are hauled in Vans or Reefers but the bulk commodities were pretty much the same. Why you may ask????? Because Carriers are cutting each other's throats trying to hold on to something that is too cheep in the first place. As far as brokers being ticked about truckers noticing these articles I applaud you for being so observant. I have no problem with a truck telling me a load I am offering is too thin for them to haul it. It shows they are paying attention to what they need to operate profitably. The thing that gripes me more than anything is someone coming in with a mass statement that Brokers are the cause of all Carriers problems. That would be like me saying you are a rate cutting low life when I have no idea who you are or how you operate. We need more people voicing an opinion on issues like this. Did you notice how many people responded to the open response opportunity over the past several years on the eld issue? Not very many. Yeah I read the stories about the FMCSA listening sessions at MATS. Sounds like Scott got a little revved up and walked out. There needs to be more and more sessions like this. The industry as a whole needs to pound on the fact that we need people with firsthand knowlege of how our industry works to be in charge of agencies and departments like FMCSA and the Dept. of Transportation. Professional politicians could care less about what the little guy says. Independants and brokers need to get together on some sort of agenda to make our voices heard. Read your statements that you made previous about brokers making a killing off truckers. It appears that you accept the privelege of lumping all brokers into one category but take offense when someone disagrees with your position. "

I think us truckers have a right to ask where our money is, When we have reason to believe that someone is embezzling it from us. I know personally of three truckers this week, that caught the broker stealing from them red handed, the shippers were more than happy to complain about what that Load cost them, and show the trucker what they paid the broker. It happens that the numbers lined up pretty close, with what we have been discussing in this post. And yes I believe brokers are getting rich off of the ELD mandate, wether they supported it or not, even though we know that many of them did, especially the megga brokers. I don't have a problem with them exploiting the opertunity, but I do have a problem with them skimming off the top. As Scott would say, don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining. And I think I made it pretty clear throughout my posts, that not all brokers were bad, regardless of your interpretation. When one trucker does something stupid, and kills someone, all of us truckers get blamed for it. Well the same standard applies to you brokers as well, when one of get caught screwing a trucker the shame is put on all of you. I believe it's called guilt by association. Now us truckers have been under the microscope for a long time, we are used to it. Now all of you brokers are going to get your chance to explain to congress, why the shippers cannot get trucks, and there is a massive driver shortage.
Replied on Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 01:13 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "I think us truckers have a right to ask where our money is, When we have reason to believe that someone is embezzling it from us. I know personally of three truckers this week, that caught the broker stealing from them red handed, the shippers were more than happy to complain about what that Load cost them, and show the trucker what they paid the broker. It happens that the numbers lined up pretty close, with what we have been discussing in this post. And yes I believe brokers are getting rich off of the ELD mandate, wether they supported it or not, even though we know that many of them did, especially the megga brokers. I don't have a problem with them exploiting the opertunity, but I do have a problem with them skimming off the top. As Scott would say, don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining. And I think I made it pretty clear throughout my posts, that not all brokers were bad, regardless of your interpretation. When one trucker does something stupid, and kills someone, all of us truckers get blamed for it. Well the same standard applies to you brokers as well, when one of get caught screwing a trucker the shame is put on all of you. I believe it's called guilt by association. Now us truckers have been under the microscope for a long time, we are used to it. Now all of you brokers are going to get your chance to explain to congress, why the shippers cannot get trucks, and there is a massive driver shortage."

AS ALWAYS YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO YOUR OPINION AND I HAVE THE RIGHT TO MINE. IT MAY COME DOWN TO HAVING TO EXPLAIN MY POSITION TO CONGRESS. I HAVE ALREADY CHEWED AND CHEWED AND CHEWED ON OUR CONGRESSIONAL REPS. IT GETS DISGUSTING TO GET THE FORM LETTER BACK STATING WHAT A GREAT HONOR IT IS TO SERVE THE PEOPLE OF NEBRASKA AND ALSO THIS GREAT NATION. MAKES A PERSON WANT TO PUKE. NO DOUBT IN MY MIND YOU AND I WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CROSS SWORDS AGAIN AS WE ARE BOTH IN A SITUATION OF "GUILT BY ASSOCIATION" AS YOU PUT IT. BEST OF LUCK TO YOU AND A HAPPY EASTER TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.
Replied on Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 01:47 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "AS ALWAYS YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO YOUR OPINION AND I HAVE THE RIGHT TO MINE. IT MAY COME DOWN TO HAVING TO EXPLAIN MY POSITION TO CONGRESS. I HAVE ALREADY CHEWED AND CHEWED AND CHEWED ON OUR CONGRESSIONAL REPS. IT GETS DISGUSTING TO GET THE FORM LETTER BACK STATING WHAT A GREAT HONOR IT IS TO SERVE THE PEOPLE OF NEBRASKA AND ALSO THIS GREAT NATION. MAKES A PERSON WANT TO PUKE. NO DOUBT IN MY MIND YOU AND I WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CROSS SWORDS AGAIN AS WE ARE BOTH IN A SITUATION OF "GUILT BY ASSOCIATION" AS YOU PUT IT. BEST OF LUCK TO YOU AND A HAPPY EASTER TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY."

Duane you are a scholar and a gentleman, and it's always a pleasure to have a discussion with you. I wish you a happy Easter, and may god bless you and your family.
Replied on Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 06:14 PM CST
+ 2
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "You didn't see 6 dollar a mile freight 2008, because we were in the height of the recession. There were 10 trucks fighting over one load of freight, where as today you have the opposite, you have a abundance of freight, and a shortage of trucks. The L/T ratios have never been this high, we are breaking new ground, just like the stock market. The railroads are currently pushed to the limit, and have started raising their rates, based on what they see going on with us truckers, and the overly strong demand. But let's say for the sake of argument that you are right, and nobody can afford this high priced freight, then we now have a massive problem, because it's already backing up on the shippers dock right now, faster than they can get rid of it, and if the truckers won't do it any cheaper? The brokers are likely to find themselves in the crosshairs next, as many shippers are now complaining to congress that the money they are paying the brokers is not making it to the truckers, and as a result all of the drivers are leaving the industry, thereby harming the shippers business. Will rate transparency become mandatory? Everyone seems to forget, the shippers represent management, they are the Job creators, the rest of us be it broker, or carrier are nothing more than hired help."

Ok correct me if i am wrong are you talking about bulk freight like hoppers freight or you talking about drive van freight and flatbed freight.Cause last time i new you can't load or unload a hopper at a dock unless its a covertible hopper lol. Anyway like i said flatbed freight and van freight is way different than hopper freight. You are never gonna see big rates like your seeing in flatbed freight right know. And i have to ask this question. So if you got a load from a broker from POINT A say a 500 mile haul to POINT B say you agreed to 3.00 a mile. Now you agreed to this price, and the broker fought for you to get you the [email protected] but then you found out it pays more and now you are crying the blues cause you left money on the table and you blame the broker cause hes making money now. And you think the broker is cutting a fat hog on the deal. Yeah some do make money thats there job thats what they got hired to do. So if you dont like the rate dont haul it waite till it comes back to what you can do it for. And there may be a truck shortage it general freight but i dont see no shortage in the hopper freight that much. One other thing i have noticed is that lot of these costumers i've seen they want to go dirrect to shippers and brokers because they are tired of tring to find trucks all the time because truck driver have left them hanging because they found some other work that payes better for while. and They can get a better rate delervied because they are buying the product than the costumer can buy it for. Well Happy Easter.
Replied on Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 09:12 PM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: JODY SHELLITO
Quote: "Ok correct me if i am wrong are you talking about bulk freight like hoppers freight or you talking about drive van freight and flatbed freight.Cause last time i new you can't load or unload a hopper at a dock unless its a covertible hopper lol. Anyway like i said flatbed freight and van freight is way different than hopper freight. You are never gonna see big rates like your seeing in flatbed freight right know. And i have to ask this question. So if you got a load from a broker from POINT A say a 500 mile haul to POINT B say you agreed to 3.00 a mile. Now you agreed to this price, and the broker fought for you to get you the [email protected] but then you found out it pays more and now you are crying the blues cause you left money on the table and you blame the broker cause hes making money now. And you think the broker is cutting a fat hog on the deal. Yeah some do make money thats there job thats what they got hired to do. So if you dont like the rate dont haul it waite till it comes back to what you can do it for. And there may be a truck shortage it general freight but i dont see no shortage in the hopper freight that much. One other thing i have noticed is that lot of these costumers i've seen they want to go dirrect to shippers and brokers because they are tired of tring to find trucks all the time because truck driver have left them hanging because they found some other work that payes better for while. and They can get a better rate delervied because they are buying the product than the costumer can buy it for. Well Happy Easter. "

Jody I started out talking about the flatbed market, because it has the strongest demand right now, and because it shows that even in a insanely strong market, many truckers are getting screwed. Now when you sign on with a broker, they send you out a carrier pack that spells out the terms of your compensation, and it often says that the broker keeps 10% of the gross revenue. This is a legally binding contract, that you both sign and agree to. The next step is the broker will send you a rate confirmation, telling you what the load pays. If the broker lies about what the rate is, he is not honoring the terms of contract, and that is embezzlement, and that's a crime. So yes I expect the broker to honor the contract. I don't run my business like a company driver, I run it like a contractor. Now I never said that hopper freight paid as well as other types of freight, so Let's talk about that.... Some hopper freight pays well, ( like frack sand), and some does not. Usually if it's not paying anything it's becuase it's a local market, and you got a bunch of guys running farm plates, running overweight and way to cheap, operating a charity. I suspect the higher interest rates that are coming will put a end to that. Now how long will these guys hold on to that hopper bottom, when all their drivers start following the money, and move on to greener pastures in a different market? At some point the folks in the AG sector are going to have to find more money, or their product won't get to market, they are going to need a hell of a lot more help than a ELD exemption. Have a happy Easter. 10-4, over and out.
Replied on Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 09:44 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "I have seen a few loads I inquired about in the last 30-40 days have a slight rate increase in the last week. I'd guess it's due to poor weather conditions and time constraints. But I find it interesting that a few people thumbs down your comment without holding a discussion. I'm assuming those are brokers....not saying it's bad that someone disagrees and does a thumbs down, but I've tried to engage in a discussion about why they support the eld, and where the rate increases are, but they don't seem interested. So let's here it brokers? Why the thumbs down to us greedy truckers wanting a measly 2 bucks a mile? And why are you in favor of our work ethic being government regulated? Thanks for your input "

Dale look at all of those dislikes that the brokers gave us. Now essentially all I am asking them to do is honor their own contract, that they presented and agreed to, in their carrier pack, and all of a sudden they get all pissy. Why is it every time someone talks about rates and honesty, it turns into a food fight? How many times in the past did someone bring up this topic, and not even mention the ELD, and the response from the other side was the same?
Replied on Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 12:24 AM CST
+ 1 - 1
I really like reading these forums. I think it's educational for inexperienced people like me. I could tell my earlier post offended some people, and I see why. I guess my initial question is still why are some people in favor of eld? I drew the conclusion that some people are pro eld because of some thumbs downs? Maybe I misunderstood.

I shouldn't have a poor opinion of all brokers just because of a couple bad experiences, just like I hope I'm not grouped into a category of a butthead that whines about wanting more money than I agreed to, after the delivery and have a missing out attitude.

But I am hearing about delivery surcharges from eld delays, so what specifically is that charge for? Or what specifically are some of the rate increases we read about for? Maybe it costs a shipper more because of the delay?

I'm definitely inexperienced, so I'm asking for my own education, not to be snarky or anything. I'm not new to business. I've farmed my entire life, and I'm good at it, but that economy can't support a family. So that's why I'm here, and I enjoy it. So my next question is, am I part of the low rate problem because I'm ok with getting around 2 dollars avg loaded and empty together?? Another message indicated that was pretty low. So am I the problem?? I'm new to commercial trucking but not numbers, I know my fuel cost, ins, depreciation, loan payment ect. Granted my repair costs might be lower than average because I have a degree in diesel tech, so I have cheaper repair cost. But if I keep that average around 2 bucks, I AM making money. Yes I'd love to avg 2.60 loaded and empty together, but I'm satisfied with profitable...but I have a pretty low standard coming from farming, so am I the problem?

I do see alot of loads posted on boards that definitely are lower than I'm willing to pull my hopper for, and that gets carriers fired up, but not fired up so much that we can't have conversation. Lots of wisdom on bulk loads. Happy Easter everyone
Replied on Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 01:00 AM CST
+ 2
I learned my lesson the hard way about lumping brokers in one pot. I want my outfit to stand on it's own record, not in a negative group. Also a discussion is fine, sometimes we learn from another's point of view, but speaking of or to Duane goes to far for me. He has been here before you and I have personal experience of what a first class person he and his group represent. There are other brokers here that are good people. If more of us worked with them rather than stating they are all bad we would have a better chance of getting something positive.

Art Pfluger
Replied on Mon, Apr 02, 2018 at 12:55 AM CST
+ 1
you know...theres a really really simple answer to all this debating over rates and such.....and really its already in place for the most part , but its so easy and simple mobody see's it. its called day rate...... if you rent equipment like a dozer or backhoe...you pay by the day , week , month......if you rent a tractor from case for your farm , you pay for x number of hours right up front. ...if you go to aarons rent-a-center for a tv you pay by the day. week or month...... so..... if you want my truck to haul your freight or a shippers calls a broker to haul thier freight why not just put it on day rate...... give me 800 per day for my truck ,trailer, and driver and i will drive my truck loaded or empty where you want it...its simple, it gurantees you get the job done and it just makes sense.....it takes the bitching and whining out of wait times to load or unload , it cures the debate over the eld's its your money guaranteed everyday..... and before you say oh hell that would never work , its worked in both the rental business and the oilfiled for years...but the trucking industry ....well we got to get paid by the mile...... boy ain't we some dumbasses.....if we was on day rate then it would get a lot of stuff fixed at loading and unloading facilities......

Replied on Mon, Apr 02, 2018 at 09:59 AM CST
So while I am not the guy who won’t take the truck out of the yard for less than $4 a mile, I like to think I don’t haul super cheap either. I understand that our economy is a relatively free market, and that market will determine rates. Having said that, I just called in a load that would pay $1.17 a loaded mile if I loaded 54,000. I asked for clarification because I didn’t think I must have understood the per bushel rate properly and the gentleman got testy about it like I was unreasonable. Seriously? I know that rates aren’t where I’d like them in light of all the things discussed in this discussion but most things seem to be at least $2 a loaded mile to start with and can be negotiated up from there a bit. Does anyone else see these kind of rates offered as a serious deal? It surprised me.
Replied on Mon, Apr 02, 2018 at 03:24 PM CST
Originally Posted by: MORGAN QUICK
Quote: "So while I am not the guy who won’t take the truck out of the yard for less than $4 a mile, I like to think I don’t haul super cheap either. I understand that our economy is a relatively free market, and that market will determine rates. Having said that, I just called in a load that would pay $1.17 a loaded mile if I loaded 54,000. I asked for clarification because I didn’t think I must have understood the per bushel rate properly and the gentleman got testy about it like I was unreasonable. Seriously? I know that rates aren’t where I’d like them in light of all the things discussed in this discussion but most things seem to be at least $2 a loaded mile to start with and can be negotiated up from there a bit. Does anyone else see these kind of rates offered as a serious deal? It surprised me."

CGB out of Inola has beans from Lamar, MO to Memphis, TN at 40 cents a bushel. That's around 95 cents a loaded mile. By the time you factor in your time and extra fuel it would be cheaper to bounce to Memphis. I don't understand why anyone would even consider loading something that cheap.
Replied on Tue, Apr 03, 2018 at 07:33 AM CST
+ 2
I dont see how the Brokers are "getting rich off the ELD mandate" Thier income is perportional to ours. If we make money so do they and visa-versa.







Max Whitacre
Sweat Transportation

Replied on Tue, Apr 03, 2018 at 07:34 AM CST
Originally Posted by: MORGAN QUICK
Quote: "So while I am not the guy who won’t take the truck out of the yard for less than $4 a mile, I like to think I don’t haul super cheap either. I understand that our economy is a relatively free market, and that market will determine rates. Having said that, I just called in a load that would pay $1.17 a loaded mile if I loaded 54,000. I asked for clarification because I didn’t think I must have understood the per bushel rate properly and the gentleman got testy about it like I was unreasonable. Seriously? I know that rates aren’t where I’d like them in light of all the things discussed in this discussion but most things seem to be at least $2 a loaded mile to start with and can be negotiated up from there a bit. Does anyone else see these kind of rates offered as a serious deal? It surprised me."

If that surprised you then you have a rude awakening ahead of you, welcome to the real world of hopper freight hauling!
Replied on Tue, Apr 03, 2018 at 12:05 PM CST
Everyone seems to agree, that there is a driver shortage, due to crappy pay for the driver. Who's fault is that, the carrier? How can the carrier pay a driver more, if the broker won't pay carrier more? And if you don't have enough drivers to keep up with demand, how can you ever regulate HOS? Just look at what has been happening with the propane haulers for the past 15 years, now that has spread to the rest of the trucking industry. It's impossible to have HOS, when you don't have enough drivers to go around, so congress now has a problem, and they are looking for a scapegoat. Obviously government doesn't think that regulations are the problem, and the ATA can not say that regulations are the problem, Since they keep lobbying for more, like the ELD. So that brings us strait back to driver pay, and rates.
Replied on Tue, Apr 03, 2018 at 12:46 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Everyone seems to agree, that there is a driver shortage, due to crappy pay for the driver. Who's fault is that, the carrier? How can the carrier pay a driver more, if the broker won't pay carrier more? And if you don't have enough drivers to keep up with demand, how can you ever regulate HOS? Just look at what has been happening with the propane haulers for the past 15 years, now that has spread to the rest of the trucking industry. It's impossible to have HOS, when you don't have enough drivers to go around, so congress now has a problem, and they are looking for a scapegoat. Obviously government doesn't think that regulations are the problem, and the ATA can not say that regulations are the problem, Since they keep lobbying for more, like the ELD. So that brings us strait back to driver pay, and rates."

This is the first week of hard enforcement for the ELD mandate, there are many folks that didn't install them until last week, and many more that are having problems with malfunctions, yet when you pass by the scale house's, we do not see the back lots filled up, with out of service violations? Hymmmm, and at the same time the administrator of FMCSA is cozying up to the same group of people, that insulted him last week? Might it be that they cannot afford to enforce this regulation, for fear of loosing anymore capacity?
Replied on Wed, Apr 04, 2018 at 08:14 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "Yeah I am a broker. In no way do I condemn your wanting better rates. In fact I push like hell to get rates up but I find that CARRIERS are the ones that are continually cutting everyone else's throats as far as rates go. Take a look at Catoosa and Inola. Dasco BenTrei and Gavilon have no trouble finding CARRIERS to haul that stuff for $1.15-$1.30/mi on that. I have no problem telling all 3 of them that they are too cheeeeep and have told them that many many times. I have never been really bashful about calling a spade a spade and I have no problem at this time saying that not all brokers are lining their pockets off the backs of the carriers that run for them. I have seen some serious skimming off the top of a big rate in my illustrious career but I have also seen CARRIERS that have no clue as to what it take to operate their trucks correctly. I see absolutely no need for this ELD garbage. My drivers are pretty much intelligent enough to know when they are tired and know when to stop and take a break. It doesn't take some educated idiot in a $500 dollar suit from Washington to tell them that. If you want to gripe about the eld, get on the phone and burn up your congressperson's phone line, flood his mailbox with complaints or blow up his e mail with complaints. Don't lay it all at the feet of brokers. Unless you get off your duff and raise hell where it will do some good, nothing will be done about it and this web site will continue to be the broker bashing site it has become. We all need to work together to get this nonsense corrected and not do the finger pointing thing . Raise hell where it counts. "

I agree here and seen it a million times!! We are fighting for rate increases all the time in Canada. We know what we need as smaller companies to survive. The problem is we go and give a rate to a elevator or farmer for loads and there is some idiot out there that slices the rates a dollar or two a mile!!! I could name a few from up this way that do it but what's the point. So until some of these guys learn rates to survive the brokers will keep doing them for the lower rates..
Replied on Wed, Apr 04, 2018 at 11:14 PM CST
The biggest problem I am encountering is many of the quarries wanting exorborant insurance policies, umbrellas/excess policies between 1 and 5 million. I actually had a company want a 5 million umbrella to haul sand for crap rates! and another quarry wanted me to have workmans comp on myself with no employees! I dont mind the insurance if the rates reflect the additional burden but they dont. What a freakin joke. Needless to say they can find somebody else to haul. What profit the government doesnt take the insurance companies want. Anyone else running into this?