Somebody needs to say this

Tanya,

That's a brave question to ask in these forums, but many of us have to deal with this situation every day. Not to make it overly simplistic, but it starts with knowing how much it costs YOU to do business. If you already know that then you should have some kind of business model that you follow to make that financial goal a reality. That magic number is a little different for everyone, but you can only do what works for you in terms of average revenue per mile, gross revenue per week, time at home, etc. Some brokers are pretty up front with their rates and you can usually tell after a few conversations with them about their loads. Others will negotiate some, especially if you appear to know what you're doing and present yourself well. All you can do if the rate is too low is politely pass or make a counter offer that works for you. Believe me, there will be plenty of times when YOU have to say no because you can't haul it for the rate being offered. I'm in that position almost every week. I used to get mad about it, but I've learned with age to let it go and not take it personally. Part of it is learning the lanes that are best for you to run for your business model. My advice is don't get upset or burn bridges with people. If the load doesn't (or the broker won't) pay what you need, look for something else. After a while you'll get a feel for who you do and don't want to deal with. Trucking has always been a tough business, but that's exactly what it is for all parties involved- a business. The broker is aiming for a particular profit and so are you. I called on something a coulple of days ago that I would have done for $31/ton, the "merchandiser" wants to get it moved for $20/ton but is probably hunting the multi axle trucks at that rate. That was a pretty short call as I could tell right away we weren't even on the same page.

If you feel like you're being taken advantage of then you probably are. If the rate seems fair given the other loads you've called on and the broker's reputation, then it probably is. If you know from experience that freight into a given area should pay a certain rate, then you don't need to be the one who hauls it for less and "lowers the bar" so to speak. One last thought, try to think past your truck and do what's right for the trucking industry. If you are running for peanuts or at a loss that's no good for you or any of the rest of us out here. The better brokers and shippers are old school and understand that it takes fair rates to keep reliable trucks, it has to work for both parties if it's to be a lifetime career.

Best of luck to you!

Thank you everyone, I feel like I am headed in the right direction then. The rates we agree on for our hopper trailer are more than enough to pay expensives so I feel that I am not under cutting anyone.

I'm afraid I've been one of the bad apples when it comes to rates. Bought a cheap old daycab Freightliner, been fixing it as I go and can afford to, and pretty much taking whatever's been thrown at me trying to keep my head above water. Last week hit the bottom as I had two loads of corn screenings to run and the scales finally got me. Got POOS'ed for two trailer tires and a brake line (had just replaced power steering resevoir over the weekend too) $640 later, back on the road and finished my deliveries at a couple hundred loss and didn't get any more loads the rest of the week. Was offered some loads yesterday at $12 a ton and I finally drew the line. Maybe others can haul for that. Especially ones that broker for themselves and can get the back hauls. So far all my loads have been mostly out and backs as it's rather difficult to find any back hauls only running intrastate. The overall plan was to run intrastate until I could generate enough to get myself set up for interstate. Hell, I'm not even making enough to stay running intrastate. Anyway, not venting my problems just a little info why the low rate acceptance. Thought no truck payments would help me out but that's a fine line too, I've dumped almost as much back into the truck as I've made. Just saying if a bottomfeeder like myself can't stay running, how the hell are the other guys doing it? By the by, thought I'd at least get in on the field harvest but seem to be hitting the wall there too...

Anyway, trying to turn ourselves around at least and quit taking the low ball rates. May put me under but it may help those not living hand to mouth like myself. And yes, before I get taken to task for starting a truck company like this in the first place, it wasn't neccessarily the smartest way to do it but it was my only way in. Still hope I can pull a rabbit out of my butt, but I'm near going belly up already. May set the record for shortest lived truck company ever but what the heck.

It's been a steep learning curve.....

Totally agree with you Dale. If I could of bought more than 5800 worth of truck, I would of gladly spent more. We basically had a fixed buy price of 10k or less. I know, not enough to begin with, but it's all I had to work with. I looked at another old Freightliner sleeper classic that I loved but it was in even worse shape than the one I did get. He wanted 7800 for it and it was going to need quite a bit more to make it functional to drive again. A full set of drive tires was the least of it. Not saying the truck wasn't worth it, just didn't have the capital to throw at it.

Doesn't help I made the usual rookie mistake of buying a truck without any real knowledge of the expenses involved with trucking for yourself. The insurance alone was a bit of a shocker. I had commercial insurance on my flatbed medium duty before but didn't realize the price disparity between commercial policy private use and commercial policy hauling for hire. You guys already know what all the other crap that goes along with it. It got to be so much money that I had to shrink my original plans of going interstate to settling for intrastate as it was cheaper to get my authority that way.

It was a long shot from the get go and I knew that right from the start. I've done it before and succeeded and I've gotten knocked on my ass too. Not throwing in the towel yet.

Feel like I've hijacked this thread, didn't mean to. My apologies if it's taken that way.

So I've struggled with this exact question a few times. It's been said more than once, you have to know your operating cost to know what to charge. That stumps me a little because other than insurance and my trailer rental, my operating costs are anywhere from 2000 a month (the ins and rent) plus whatever it costs me to run the truck. We'll call it $40 per hundred miles, basically fuel and oil. I know I'm stupidly oversimplifying it but I have a hard time wrapping my head around it because if truck don't roll, it costs me nothing but ins. and rent. If I only use that base of 2k, then I'm not charging enough. Probably not explaining it well but you guys probably get what I'm saying.

So my neighbor called yesterday and asked what I would charge to run a couple of loads to eddyville. I couldn't really answer him. For one thing, he's helped us out more than I can say and honestly, I'd probably do it for fuel and a fifty dollar bill or something. Aside from that though, I really am ignorant to real market prices for shipping anything. My only frame of reference for pricing came from back in 2008 when I hired a truck to haul my box trailer back to Iowa from Rhode island. Ran me about 3200 if I remember right. I've been letting brokers set my price and that's a sucky position to be in cuz I sorta know but I don't. Does a guy break it down into a guesstimate of expected miles per month or???? Other than that I've been a hourly wage slave my whole life excepting when I had my plumbing business in Rhode Island and I knew what market rates were.

Don't get me wrong, my time is worth money too, I get that. I'm also willing to suffer a little to build up something to support myelf. The payoff comes later when I'm my own boss, cuz I suck at working for other people. LOL That's no joke though and totally true. I've put myself through hell trying to make that be successful. I'm just not wired for it. I can do it on a temporary basis but long term is not doable for me. For one thing, being exploited is not something I've ever learned to cope with well. Well, let me rephrase that. Being exploited and not compensated accordingly is what I can't cope with. I'm too aware of the profitabilty of owning a business and how most business owners use hourly payroll to capitalize on that. For instance in the plumbing/HVAC trades it's usually something on the order of 400% profit on employess hours or even more when you can get by with apprentices doing the work. My first year apprenticing I was doing the entire DWV piping (including design and sizing) systems on custom stick built homes within six months. I was paid $4.35 an hour and no bennies, shop rate was $50. I can guarantee they were making way more than shop rate on the homes we did. They had the gall to charge me full retail on tools I bought through them when they got full wholesale. Some of my tools were a weeks check and then some. Again oversimplifying, but in round numbers, I'm being paid $25 an hour and the shop is billing me out at $125 or more. So a guy suffers through that kind of crap in hopes he can have something to call his own one day and so I did. But I wasn't very good at it. That's all well and good, if you're wired to exploit people like that, some people are very good at becoming "successful" by doing just that, exploiting people. Doesn't meet my definition but it takes all kinds. Some people seem to not mind and they don't have to deal with fending for themselves. Put your time in and collect your check. I was brought up entirely different than that, to me that whole system is toxic and it makes me toxic trying to deal with it. My granddad and dad were both self employed in the plumbing/HVAC trade and despite my dad not being extremely helpful in the beginning I seemed to have it in my blood. My granddad on my moms side was a Hostess fleet mechanic most of his career and never seemed to have a desire to want anything to do with it outside his job. He barely even kept tools at home. Despite that, I've been a diehard gearhead my whole life too. There's a basket case '34 International 2 ton truck in my machine shed I hope to rebuild someday just because I like the truck and want to save it. It's probably a lost cause but I identify with lost causes pretty strongly. Many people have wrote me off as one but I ain't done yet.

Thanks Art and Scott for the tips. Should of thought of extra tank as I used to run a five horse IR single stage 80 gallon into a spare 120 gallon tank (I still have that tank in the box trailer if I can figure out how to weasel it out from amongst the machine tools) to double up for doing sandblasting work. Guess I was thinking primarily pressures, not volumes as both the truck and my little rol-air top out at about 125-150. My big compressor is a 120 gallon 15hp IR type 30. Milwaukee has a cordless 1" too now. Supposed to be a pretty chooching unit but I've been let down by cordless stuff too many times now. My first cordless Dewalt drill got the hell beat out of it for nearly ten years, my full on $700 Milwaukee set didn't last half that long. I don't consider power tools consumable throw away items, I grew up using 30 year old Milwauke stuff with cords when Milwaukee was still Milwaukee and Hole-Hawgs could break yer arm in half. It's owned by some Hong Kong consortium bullcrap deal now. CP still makes good stuff as far as I know. That impact in the corner will still be banging off nuts long after that cordless poops itself out. Thanks guys.

You need to use 1/2 inch hose AND couplers/fittings for the 1 inch impact. It will work just fine directly off your truck's tanks but you may have to wait for them to fill up periodically. I turned the governor up on my compressor to around 130-140psi too and set the cruise for 1000 RPM.