Somebody needs to say this

Tanya,

That's a brave question to ask in these forums, but many of us have to deal with this situation every day. Not to make it overly simplistic, but it starts with knowing how much it costs YOU to do business. If you already know that then you should have some kind of business model that you follow to make that financial goal a reality. That magic number is a little different for everyone, but you can only do what works for you in terms of average revenue per mile, gross revenue per week, time at home, etc. Some brokers are pretty up front with their rates and you can usually tell after a few conversations with them about their loads. Others will negotiate some, especially if you appear to know what you're doing and present yourself well. All you can do if the rate is too low is politely pass or make a counter offer that works for you. Believe me, there will be plenty of times when YOU have to say no because you can't haul it for the rate being offered. I'm in that position almost every week. I used to get mad about it, but I've learned with age to let it go and not take it personally. Part of it is learning the lanes that are best for you to run for your business model. My advice is don't get upset or burn bridges with people. If the load doesn't (or the broker won't) pay what you need, look for something else. After a while you'll get a feel for who you do and don't want to deal with. Trucking has always been a tough business, but that's exactly what it is for all parties involved- a business. The broker is aiming for a particular profit and so are you. I called on something a coulple of days ago that I would have done for $31/ton, the "merchandiser" wants to get it moved for $20/ton but is probably hunting the multi axle trucks at that rate. That was a pretty short call as I could tell right away we weren't even on the same page.

If you feel like you're being taken advantage of then you probably are. If the rate seems fair given the other loads you've called on and the broker's reputation, then it probably is. If you know from experience that freight into a given area should pay a certain rate, then you don't need to be the one who hauls it for less and "lowers the bar" so to speak. One last thought, try to think past your truck and do what's right for the trucking industry. If you are running for peanuts or at a loss that's no good for you or any of the rest of us out here. The better brokers and shippers are old school and understand that it takes fair rates to keep reliable trucks, it has to work for both parties if it's to be a lifetime career.

Best of luck to you!

Thank you everyone, I feel like I am headed in the right direction then. The rates we agree on for our hopper trailer are more than enough to pay expensives so I feel that I am not under cutting anyone.

I'm afraid I've been one of the bad apples when it comes to rates. Bought a cheap old daycab Freightliner, been fixing it as I go and can afford to, and pretty much taking whatever's been thrown at me trying to keep my head above water. Last week hit the bottom as I had two loads of corn screenings to run and the scales finally got me. Got POOS'ed for two trailer tires and a brake line (had just replaced power steering resevoir over the weekend too) $640 later, back on the road and finished my deliveries at a couple hundred loss and didn't get any more loads the rest of the week. Was offered some loads yesterday at $12 a ton and I finally drew the line. Maybe others can haul for that. Especially ones that broker for themselves and can get the back hauls. So far all my loads have been mostly out and backs as it's rather difficult to find any back hauls only running intrastate. The overall plan was to run intrastate until I could generate enough to get myself set up for interstate. Hell, I'm not even making enough to stay running intrastate. Anyway, not venting my problems just a little info why the low rate acceptance. Thought no truck payments would help me out but that's a fine line too, I've dumped almost as much back into the truck as I've made. Just saying if a bottomfeeder like myself can't stay running, how the hell are the other guys doing it? By the by, thought I'd at least get in on the field harvest but seem to be hitting the wall there too...

Anyway, trying to turn ourselves around at least and quit taking the low ball rates. May put me under but it may help those not living hand to mouth like myself. And yes, before I get taken to task for starting a truck company like this in the first place, it wasn't neccessarily the smartest way to do it but it was my only way in. Still hope I can pull a rabbit out of my butt, but I'm near going belly up already. May set the record for shortest lived truck company ever but what the heck.

It's been a steep learning curve.....

Totally agree with you Dale. If I could of bought more than 5800 worth of truck, I would of gladly spent more. We basically had a fixed buy price of 10k or less. I know, not enough to begin with, but it's all I had to work with. I looked at another old Freightliner sleeper classic that I loved but it was in even worse shape than the one I did get. He wanted 7800 for it and it was going to need quite a bit more to make it functional to drive again. A full set of drive tires was the least of it. Not saying the truck wasn't worth it, just didn't have the capital to throw at it.

Doesn't help I made the usual rookie mistake of buying a truck without any real knowledge of the expenses involved with trucking for yourself. The insurance alone was a bit of a shocker. I had commercial insurance on my flatbed medium duty before but didn't realize the price disparity between commercial policy private use and commercial policy hauling for hire. You guys already know what all the other crap that goes along with it. It got to be so much money that I had to shrink my original plans of going interstate to settling for intrastate as it was cheaper to get my authority that way.

It was a long shot from the get go and I knew that right from the start. I've done it before and succeeded and I've gotten knocked on my ass too. Not throwing in the towel yet.

Feel like I've hijacked this thread, didn't mean to. My apologies if it's taken that way.

So I've struggled with this exact question a few times. It's been said more than once, you have to know your operating cost to know what to charge. That stumps me a little because other than insurance and my trailer rental, my operating costs are anywhere from 2000 a month (the ins and rent) plus whatever it costs me to run the truck. We'll call it $40 per hundred miles, basically fuel and oil. I know I'm stupidly oversimplifying it but I have a hard time wrapping my head around it because if truck don't roll, it costs me nothing but ins. and rent. If I only use that base of 2k, then I'm not charging enough. Probably not explaining it well but you guys probably get what I'm saying.

So my neighbor called yesterday and asked what I would charge to run a couple of loads to eddyville. I couldn't really answer him. For one thing, he's helped us out more than I can say and honestly, I'd probably do it for fuel and a fifty dollar bill or something. Aside from that though, I really am ignorant to real market prices for shipping anything. My only frame of reference for pricing came from back in 2008 when I hired a truck to haul my box trailer back to Iowa from Rhode island. Ran me about 3200 if I remember right. I've been letting brokers set my price and that's a sucky position to be in cuz I sorta know but I don't. Does a guy break it down into a guesstimate of expected miles per month or???? Other than that I've been a hourly wage slave my whole life excepting when I had my plumbing business in Rhode Island and I knew what market rates were.

Don't get me wrong, my time is worth money too, I get that. I'm also willing to suffer a little to build up something to support myelf. The payoff comes later when I'm my own boss, cuz I suck at working for other people. LOL That's no joke though and totally true. I've put myself through hell trying to make that be successful. I'm just not wired for it. I can do it on a temporary basis but long term is not doable for me. For one thing, being exploited is not something I've ever learned to cope with well. Well, let me rephrase that. Being exploited and not compensated accordingly is what I can't cope with. I'm too aware of the profitabilty of owning a business and how most business owners use hourly payroll to capitalize on that. For instance in the plumbing/HVAC trades it's usually something on the order of 400% profit on employess hours or even more when you can get by with apprentices doing the work. My first year apprenticing I was doing the entire DWV piping (including design and sizing) systems on custom stick built homes within six months. I was paid $4.35 an hour and no bennies, shop rate was $50. I can guarantee they were making way more than shop rate on the homes we did. They had the gall to charge me full retail on tools I bought through them when they got full wholesale. Some of my tools were a weeks check and then some. Again oversimplifying, but in round numbers, I'm being paid $25 an hour and the shop is billing me out at $125 or more. So a guy suffers through that kind of crap in hopes he can have something to call his own one day and so I did. But I wasn't very good at it. That's all well and good, if you're wired to exploit people like that, some people are very good at becoming "successful" by doing just that, exploiting people. Doesn't meet my definition but it takes all kinds. Some people seem to not mind and they don't have to deal with fending for themselves. Put your time in and collect your check. I was brought up entirely different than that, to me that whole system is toxic and it makes me toxic trying to deal with it. My granddad and dad were both self employed in the plumbing/HVAC trade and despite my dad not being extremely helpful in the beginning I seemed to have it in my blood. My granddad on my moms side was a Hostess fleet mechanic most of his career and never seemed to have a desire to want anything to do with it outside his job. He barely even kept tools at home. Despite that, I've been a diehard gearhead my whole life too. There's a basket case '34 International 2 ton truck in my machine shed I hope to rebuild someday just because I like the truck and want to save it. It's probably a lost cause but I identify with lost causes pretty strongly. Many people have wrote me off as one but I ain't done yet.

Thanks Art and Scott for the tips. Should of thought of extra tank as I used to run a five horse IR single stage 80 gallon into a spare 120 gallon tank (I still have that tank in the box trailer if I can figure out how to weasel it out from amongst the machine tools) to double up for doing sandblasting work. Guess I was thinking primarily pressures, not volumes as both the truck and my little rol-air top out at about 125-150. My big compressor is a 120 gallon 15hp IR type 30. Milwaukee has a cordless 1" too now. Supposed to be a pretty chooching unit but I've been let down by cordless stuff too many times now. My first cordless Dewalt drill got the hell beat out of it for nearly ten years, my full on $700 Milwaukee set didn't last half that long. I don't consider power tools consumable throw away items, I grew up using 30 year old Milwauke stuff with cords when Milwaukee was still Milwaukee and Hole-Hawgs could break yer arm in half. It's owned by some Hong Kong consortium bullcrap deal now. CP still makes good stuff as far as I know. That impact in the corner will still be banging off nuts long after that cordless poops itself out. Thanks guys.

You need to use 1/2 inch hose AND couplers/fittings for the 1 inch impact. It will work just fine directly off your truck's tanks but you may have to wait for them to fill up periodically. I turned the governor up on my compressor to around 130-140psi too and set the cruise for 1000 RPM.

It's been my experience that all too many shippers don't want to deal with anyone except brokerages. They all claim the convenience of only having to make one call and write one check is what drove them to make the decision. That's if I can even get them on the phone, or face to face at all! I routinely make sales visits and cold calls but it seems that the brokers are locking down the larger shippers. Also, the smaller receivers are very difficult to even discover compounding the issue further. The rates I'm seeing on the board here have been too low for me to run except for only a couple. If the missing 15-20+ percent was added back to the rate I could do it but after the broker takes their cut it's just too low. I refuse to run for less than my daily minimum. I'll sell it all before I do that.

Its been interesting to be in the transportation business for sure. I have been doing it since 1972. first as a driver, then owned my own stuff for a while. Back to company driver. Then expanded my horizons. Now an indepent business owner, have my own truck and trailer. I am also a bonded Process agent and do other truckers/ companies paperwork, billing, licensing, oversize permits etc. So I have had the chance to see many changes over the years. Got to watch first hand the successful ones, and the others. It gave me a good education b4 I started out on my own. Lots of hours and hard work to get it going. And continued hard work to maintain it. And it is always a bad deal when someone gets into the game for a fast buck and messes things up for the rest of us. I only hope the next 10 yrs does not have the same kind of opressive over sight by our Goverment officials against us. While leaving the other end of the freight busines wide open to any fly by night company. You can only stand on somes foot so long.....

Hi Jeff, thanks for your advice and believe me, if I had had the resources to put that much into it from the start, I would have. We knew going into it, we were short capital but still seemed like better option. It was either that or buy a full size plumbing/HVAC truck and hope the phone rang. The plumbing/HVAC work is there, but as I said, we aren't native to our region of the state and being relatively new to the area, we bought our place in 2013, I'm not networked in enough that I knew I would have reliable work coming in the door. My first plumbing business was on the East coast and nobody knew anyone out there and it was a much more populated area out there. You would of had to try and NOT make money there. Which isn't to say I didn't make mistakes and take my fair share of learning lumps, cuz I did and then some.

Despite there being almost five hundred trucking companies in a 55 mile radius of us (just did the search this morning on this site) I knew the trucking work was there (was anyways) if I could get myself into a truck. I'm also relatively new to trucking having only done it for the last ten years or so, but I'd been around the block enough times driving company (granted, fairly small experience base) that it wasn't going to work for me either.

I wouldn't presume to even call myself a "trucker", I haven't put in the miles or windshield time that I feel makes me deserve that title. But I do have enough of a skill set that I think with some hard work and some hustle, I might be able to call myself that one day.

The network thing is probably having a bigger impact than I thought it would be, I'm not too stupid to realize that local guys hauling for a long time are much more well connected and have long established business relations with most of the local shippers. The company I mentioned earlier is just such a company. So maybe I should of known that, but it seemed like there was still plenty of work to go around.

So I knew the ground rules coming in, I knew I didn't have the money to set myself up right coming in, I even had some idea of the contentious broker/trucker dynamic and the struggle that would bring me, I knew that I didn't even have my shop set up right to carry out work I knew I could do myself, I also knew I didn't know enough to even know what I didn't know, if you follow that. Despite all that, I had to try anyway. We had 10k to start and we had to "borrow" even more against the "house" account to get this all rolling. Maybe I had my head in the clouds, hell I don't know. It'll either fly or it won't. Be safe and keep her between the ditches, Jim.

There are more BROKERS THAN THERE ARE TRUCKS. NOTICED MANY BROKERS HAVE ADDED ADDITIONAL PERSONNEL TO THEIR OFFICES.....SURE HOPE EVERYONE IS SAYING NO TO CHEAP FREIGHT. ANYTHING UNDER 2.00PM IS WRONG.