There will be no bottom.

Aug 16, 2023 at 08:19 AM CST + 18
Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.	Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member. As long as people are willing to haul for sub 2.00/mile rates the rates will continue to be there. At some point in time when is enough enough. Yes I understand most of the guys say buy bigger trailers and bigger trucks more axles. While increasing the gross revenue the net hardly ever keeps up.

Replied on Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 12:15 PM CST + 1
Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.	Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member. Bigger equipment doesn't always cut it. My trailer is usually only about 50 to 60 percent full at gross. People just news to stop hauling this crap. The truth is most can't. A lot of guys over extended themselves when times were good and are now hanging on by a thread. Equipment is being repoed now. I watch a lot of Riche Brothers auctions and always go to the Houston and Ft worth auctions. Equipment prices are settling down. They're still a bit high but better and the banks I deal with have a lot more equipment on their websites for very reasonable prices. The few months after Christmas, which are always slow will probably knock a lot of guys off. I think the best hope we have is next spring. With rates like this in summer, winter is going to be a blood bath.

Replied on Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 12:15 PM CST

+ 1

Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.

Bigger equipment doesn't always cut it. My trailer is usually only about 50 to 60 percent full at gross. People just news to stop hauling this crap. The truth is most can't. A lot of guys over extended themselves when times were good and are now hanging on by a thread. Equipment is being repoed now. I watch a lot of Riche Brothers auctions and always go to the Houston and Ft worth auctions. Equipment prices are settling down. They're still a bit high but better and the banks I deal with have a lot more equipment on their websites for very reasonable prices. The few months after Christmas, which are always slow will probably knock a lot of guys off. I think the best hope we have is next spring. With rates like this in summer, winter is going to be a blood bath.

Replied on Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 07:01 AM CST + 1
Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.	Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member. Brad, adding more axles might help in one state but hurt you in others. It really depends on where you want to work. In my home state of Michigan the legal gross limit is 168,000 pounds if you have enough axles. I run a spread axle because most of my work is interstate and all the surrounding states are 80,000 gross. IMO we have a ways to go before we hit bottom. If one looks at a chart of available trucking businesses we still have more in operation now than in 2019, that tells me we still have some fat to trim. It won't take long with the recent spike in fuel prices and rates in the toilet.

Replied on Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 07:01 AM CST

+ 1

Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.

Brad, adding more axles might help in one state but hurt you in others. It really depends on where you want to work. In my home state of Michigan the legal gross limit is 168,000 pounds if you have enough axles. I run a spread axle because most of my work is interstate and all the surrounding states are 80,000 gross.

IMO we have a ways to go before we hit bottom. If one looks at a chart of available trucking businesses we still have more in operation now than in 2019, that tells me we still have some fat to trim. It won't take long with the recent spike in fuel prices and rates in the toilet.

Replied on Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 07:20 AM CST + 4
Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.	Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member. If bulk loads posts this I will be amazed if I posted this on Facebook i would be in Facebook jail. So here it goes... I was once told a story about two Pollish brothers that bought a pickup truck, and then went a bought a pickup load of apples for $0.10 each. They then went home and sold the apples for $0.10 each. They did this for two weeks in a row. Then finally one day the older brother said to his younger brother you know we are not making any money doing this. We need to figure out how to make money doing this. The younger brother said I agree. We need to go buy a bigger pickup. The point I'm trying to make here is. If you aren't getting good enough rates on 5 axles. Adding more axles will not help your bottom line.

Replied on Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 07:20 AM CST

+ 4

Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.

If bulk loads posts this I will be amazed if I posted this on Facebook i would be in Facebook jail. So here it goes... I was once told a story about two Pollish brothers that bought a pickup truck, and then went a bought a pickup load of apples for $0.10 each. They then went home and sold the apples for $0.10 each. They did this for two weeks in a row. Then finally one day the older brother said to his younger brother you know we are not making any money doing this. We need to figure out how to make money doing this. The younger brother said I agree. We need to go buy a bigger pickup. The point I'm trying to make here is. If you aren't getting good enough rates on 5 axles. Adding more axles will not help your bottom line.

Replied on Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 12:18 PM CST + 1
Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.	Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member. Shocked at how many $1 a mile loads I am seeing. Some of these loads, I don't even think the 7 axle guys are making any money.

Replied on Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 12:19 PM CST + 1
Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.	Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member. Quote: "If bulk loads posts this I will be amazed if I posted this on Facebook i would be in Facebook jail. So here it goes... I was once told a story about two Pollish brothers that bought a pickup truck, and then went a bought a pickup load of apples for $0.10 each. They then went home and sold the apples for $0.10 each. They did this for two weeks in a row. Then finally one day the older brother said to his younger brother you know we are not making any money doing this. We need to figure out how to make money doing this. The younger brother said I agree. We need to go buy a bigger pickup. The point I'm trying to make here is. If you aren't getting good enough rates on 5 axles. Adding more axles will not help your bottom line. " Agreed. I have always thought this, and the bigger equipment, usually, costs more money. So why not make an agreement for 25 ton, and the rest is cheddar; because you have the equipment. This bidding stuff @ 27; 30; 32 ton is out of control. Those are lost dollars to the trucker trying to get the work. And as far as the trucking at your break-even, I'm going to save my breath; because that horse is long dead and overly beaten. There are people doing it, and the rest of us will be there to catch the work when they have a breakdown. Truckers are not a commodity, you get what you pay for. To any shipper that reads this, choose quality over these temporary fly-by night drivers & brokers that have invaded the market; and your product will ALWAYS make it to where it needs to go. May cost you a few more dollars at the moment, but it'll save you customers and thousands of dollars in the long-run.

Replied on Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 12:19 PM CST

+ 1

Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.

Quote: "If bulk loads posts this I will be amazed if I posted this on Facebook i would be in Facebook jail. So here it goes... I was once told a story about two Pollish brothers that bought a pickup truck, and then went a bought a pickup load of apples for $0.10 each. They then went home and sold the apples for $0.10 each. They did this for two weeks in a row. Then finally one day the older brother said to his younger brother you know we are not making any money doing this. We need to figure out how to make money doing this. The younger brother said I agree. We need to go buy a bigger pickup. The point I'm trying to make here is. If you aren't getting good enough rates on 5 axles. Adding more axles will not help your bottom line. "

Agreed. I have always thought this, and the bigger equipment, usually, costs more money. So why not make an agreement for 25 ton, and the rest is cheddar; because you have the equipment. This bidding stuff @ 27; 30; 32 ton is out of control. Those are lost dollars to the trucker trying to get the work. And as far as the trucking at your break-even, I'm going to save my breath; because that horse is long dead and overly beaten. There are people doing it, and the rest of us will be there to catch the work when they have a breakdown. Truckers are not a commodity, you get what you pay for. To any shipper that reads this, choose quality over these temporary fly-by night drivers & brokers that have invaded the market; and your product will ALWAYS make it to where it needs to go. May cost you a few more dollars at the moment, but it'll save you customers and thousands of dollars in the long-run.

Replied on Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 03:05 PM CST + 1
Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.	Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member. Quote: "Agreed. I have always thought this, and the bigger equipment, usually, costs more money. So why not make an agreement for 25 ton, and the rest is cheddar; because you have the equipment. This bidding stuff @ 27; 30; 32 ton is out of control. Those are lost dollars to the trucker trying to get the work. And as far as the trucking at your break-even, I'm going to save my breath; because that horse is long dead and overly beaten. There are people doing it, and the rest of us will be there to catch the work when they have a breakdown. Truckers are not a commodity, you get what you pay for. To any shipper that reads this, choose quality over these temporary fly-by night drivers & brokers that have invaded the market; and your product will ALWAYS make it to where it needs to go. May cost you a few more dollars at the moment, but it'll save you customers and thousands of dollars in the long-run." Definitely the truth there that horse is long forgotten. I had a food grade tank leased and when i bid on some loads and was i could only take them if i went less tha 1.50 a mile all in. Thankfully i was only charged for a month when i returned the tank after it sat 2 weeks with no work. I told the broker to get some buckets and haul it in his new tesla.

Replied on Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 03:05 PM CST

+ 1

Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.

Quote: "Agreed. I have always thought this, and the bigger equipment, usually, costs more money. So why not make an agreement for 25 ton, and the rest is cheddar; because you have the equipment. This bidding stuff @ 27; 30; 32 ton is out of control. Those are lost dollars to the trucker trying to get the work. And as far as the trucking at your break-even, I'm going to save my breath; because that horse is long dead and overly beaten. There are people doing it, and the rest of us will be there to catch the work when they have a breakdown. Truckers are not a commodity, you get what you pay for. To any shipper that reads this, choose quality over these temporary fly-by night drivers & brokers that have invaded the market; and your product will ALWAYS make it to where it needs to go. May cost you a few more dollars at the moment, but it'll save you customers and thousands of dollars in the long-run."

Definitely the truth there that horse is long forgotten. I had a food grade tank leased and when i bid on some loads and was i could only take them if i went less tha 1.50 a mile all in. Thankfully i was only charged for a month when i returned the tank after it sat 2 weeks with no work. I told the broker to get some buckets and haul it in his new tesla.

Replied on Sat, Aug 19, 2023 at 12:09 PM CST + 5
Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.	Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member. This has been an issue for a long time. I remember these conversations in Saturday and Sunday afternoons. Sitting around a TV in the party row of the truck stop. Watching football and talking about brokers, shippers and the lack of restrooms. Fuel prices at an all time high of .88¢ a gallon. "How do they expect us to run on $1.00 a mile anymore? Hell a dang oil change costs $65.00 and the average steer tire is almost $100.00 now. This is crazy, we need a shut down". Yep, the truck stop diner looking before phones were at the tables and these issues have been brought up. Not one single old timer back when I started ever told me that I would get rich driving the truck. They all told me to stay out of the truck and go in the office, that's where the money was. I didn't listen. I didn't learn. My family has been fed, clothed, educated and comfortable. I couldn't ask for anything more. All of my accomplishments are just that, my accomplishments. To share only with me and maybe a few friends. No trophies, no belt buckle, no fancy watch. Hey, we have these computers and smart phones now. Trucking isn't just for the rugged nomad or outsider, no longer just for the loner or the ex-con that couldn't get a job anywhere else. Anybody can drive a truck now, you can even jump right into a brand new truck fresh out of school and be memorized by the fancy things and smooth ride. Nobody cares about you. Nobody cares that you struggle. We are a dime a dozen. CDL's didn't change anything, CSA hasn't changed anything. E-Logs ? Nothing. More DOT officers? Nope. Deregulation? Nope worse. More regulations? Nope. The system isn't designed to benefit you or me. You have to design the system yourself. The system that works for you. More weight equals more expense. Added permits, more maintenance. Higher insurance. Unless you can keep that giant six axle 53' trailer loaded both ways, it's not always worth it. After 35+years I'm beginning to think I should have listened to the old timers and became a dispatcher. This might not be working out for me. Damn. I've wasted my entire life.

Replied on Sat, Aug 19, 2023 at 12:09 PM CST

+ 5

Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.

This has been an issue for a long time. I remember these conversations in Saturday and Sunday afternoons. Sitting around a TV in the party row of the truck stop. Watching football and talking about brokers, shippers and the lack of restrooms. Fuel prices at an all time high of .88¢ a gallon. "How do they expect us to run on $1.00 a mile anymore? Hell a dang oil change costs $65.00 and the average steer tire is almost $100.00 now. This is crazy, we need a shut down". Yep, the truck stop diner looking before phones were at the tables and these issues have been brought up. Not one single old timer back when I started ever told me that I would get rich driving the truck. They all told me to stay out of the truck and go in the office, that's where the money was. I didn't listen. I didn't learn. My family has been fed, clothed, educated and comfortable. I couldn't ask for anything more. All of my accomplishments are just that, my accomplishments. To share only with me and maybe a few friends. No trophies, no belt buckle, no fancy watch. Hey, we have these computers and smart phones now. Trucking isn't just for the rugged nomad or outsider, no longer just for the loner or the ex-con that couldn't get a job anywhere else. Anybody can drive a truck now, you can even jump right into a brand new truck fresh out of school and be memorized by the fancy things and smooth ride. Nobody cares about you. Nobody cares that you struggle. We are a dime a dozen. CDL's didn't change anything, CSA hasn't changed anything. E-Logs ? Nothing. More DOT officers? Nope. Deregulation? Nope worse. More regulations? Nope. The system isn't designed to benefit you or me. You have to design the system yourself. The system that works for you. More weight equals more expense. Added permits, more maintenance. Higher insurance. Unless you can keep that giant six axle 53' trailer loaded both ways, it's not always worth it. After 35+years I'm beginning to think I should have listened to the old timers and became a dispatcher. This might not be working out for me. Damn. I've wasted my entire life.

Replied on Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 11:54 AM CST + 1
Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.	Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member. Quote: "This has been an issue for a long time. I remember these conversations in Saturday and Sunday afternoons. Sitting around a TV in the party row of the truck stop. Watching football and talking about brokers, shippers and the lack of restrooms. Fuel prices at an all time high of .88¢ a gallon. "How do they expect us to run on $1.00 a mile anymore? Hell a dang oil change costs $65.00 and the average steer tire is almost $100.00 now. This is crazy, we need a shut down". Yep, the truck stop diner looking before phones were at the tables and these issues have been brought up. Not one single old timer back when I started ever told me that I would get rich driving the truck. They all told me to stay out of the truck and go in the office, that's where the money was. I didn't listen. I didn't learn. My family has been fed, clothed, educated and comfortable. I couldn't ask for anything more. All of my accomplishments are just that, my accomplishments. To share only with me and maybe a few friends. No trophies, no belt buckle, no fancy watch. Hey, we have these computers and smart phones now. Trucking isn't just for the rugged nomad or outsider, no longer just for the loner or the ex-con that couldn't get a job anywhere else. Anybody can drive a truck now, you can even jump right into a brand new truck fresh out of school and be memorized by the fancy things and smooth ride. Nobody cares about you. Nobody cares that you struggle. We are a dime a dozen. CDL's didn't change anything, CSA hasn't changed anything. E-Logs ? Nothing. More DOT officers? Nope. Deregulation? Nope worse. More regulations? Nope. The system isn't designed to benefit you or me. You have to design the system yourself. The system that works for you. More weight equals more expense. Added permits, more maintenance. Higher insurance. Unless you can keep that giant six axle 53' trailer loaded both ways, it's not always worth it. After 35+years I'm beginning to think I should have listened to the old timers and became a dispatcher. This might not be working out for me. Damn. I've wasted my entire life." 100% correct! I would like to see things roll back to 80,000 pounds across the board, no electronic devices telling the drivers when they are tired, back to the days of a honest days wage for an honest days work. I remember sitting in Billings Mt in a snowstorm in 1996 and needing #1 to keep my cummins from gelling and thinking "who can survive paying 1.30/gallon for #1"? It is amazing how the costs have risen and the rates seem to have stayed the same. Things have been slow here but we are getting by. All I can say is that we have seen this happen before and will see it again! Hang in there and things will come around!

Replied on Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 11:54 AM CST

+ 1

Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.

Quote: "This has been an issue for a long time. I remember these conversations in Saturday and Sunday afternoons. Sitting around a TV in the party row of the truck stop. Watching football and talking about brokers, shippers and the lack of restrooms. Fuel prices at an all time high of .88¢ a gallon. "How do they expect us to run on $1.00 a mile anymore? Hell a dang oil change costs $65.00 and the average steer tire is almost $100.00 now. This is crazy, we need a shut down". Yep, the truck stop diner looking before phones were at the tables and these issues have been brought up. Not one single old timer back when I started ever told me that I would get rich driving the truck. They all told me to stay out of the truck and go in the office, that's where the money was. I didn't listen. I didn't learn. My family has been fed, clothed, educated and comfortable. I couldn't ask for anything more. All of my accomplishments are just that, my accomplishments. To share only with me and maybe a few friends. No trophies, no belt buckle, no fancy watch. Hey, we have these computers and smart phones now. Trucking isn't just for the rugged nomad or outsider, no longer just for the loner or the ex-con that couldn't get a job anywhere else. Anybody can drive a truck now, you can even jump right into a brand new truck fresh out of school and be memorized by the fancy things and smooth ride. Nobody cares about you. Nobody cares that you struggle. We are a dime a dozen. CDL's didn't change anything, CSA hasn't changed anything. E-Logs ? Nothing. More DOT officers? Nope. Deregulation? Nope worse. More regulations? Nope. The system isn't designed to benefit you or me. You have to design the system yourself. The system that works for you. More weight equals more expense. Added permits, more maintenance. Higher insurance. Unless you can keep that giant six axle 53' trailer loaded both ways, it's not always worth it. After 35+years I'm beginning to think I should have listened to the old timers and became a dispatcher. This might not be working out for me. Damn. I've wasted my entire life."

100% correct! I would like to see things roll back to 80,000 pounds across the board, no electronic devices telling the drivers when they are tired, back to the days of a honest days wage for an honest days work. I remember sitting in Billings Mt in a snowstorm in 1996 and needing #1 to keep my cummins from gelling and thinking "who can survive paying 1.30/gallon for #1"? It is amazing how the costs have risen and the rates seem to have stayed the same.

Things have been slow here but we are getting by. All I can say is that we have seen this happen before and will see it again! Hang in there and things will come around!

Replied on Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 08:04 PM CST
Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.	Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member. Sadly the only thing that will fix what's going on will be when there are more loads than trucks to haul them AND some smart companies that realize they have control over what they charge then, maybe, we'll start to make some money

Replied on Fri, Sep 01, 2023 at 08:26 PM CST
Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.	Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member. Quote: "Bigger equipment doesn't always cut it. My trailer is usually only about 50 to 60 percent full at gross. People just news to stop hauling this crap. The truth is most can't. A lot of guys over extended themselves when times were good and are now hanging on by a thread. Equipment is being repoed now. I watch a lot of Riche Brothers auctions and always go to the Houston and Ft worth auctions. Equipment prices are settling down. They're still a bit high but better and the banks I deal with have a lot more equipment on their websites for very reasonable prices. The few months after Christmas, which are always slow will probably knock a lot of guys off. I think the best hope we have is next spring. With rates like this in summer, winter is going to be a blood bath." This person is 100% correct. Until the overextended people close up shop, rates will be depressed. Trucking is all about supply and demand.

Replied on Fri, Sep 01, 2023 at 08:26 PM CST

Posted by a private BulkLoads.com member.

Quote: "Bigger equipment doesn't always cut it. My trailer is usually only about 50 to 60 percent full at gross. People just news to stop hauling this crap. The truth is most can't. A lot of guys over extended themselves when times were good and are now hanging on by a thread. Equipment is being repoed now. I watch a lot of Riche Brothers auctions and always go to the Houston and Ft worth auctions. Equipment prices are settling down. They're still a bit high but better and the banks I deal with have a lot more equipment on their websites for very reasonable prices. The few months after Christmas, which are always slow will probably knock a lot of guys off. I think the best hope we have is next spring. With rates like this in summer, winter is going to be a blood bath."

This person is 100% correct. Until the overextended people close up shop, rates will be depressed. Trucking is all about supply and demand.