These rates are jokes

But there's always this high dollar $1.12/mile load waiting to be moved..."Easy strap and go!"

David, and others, this rate situation is exactly why I proposed the idea of forming some sort of bulk drivers association a while back. This morning I had breakfast with the young man I've spoken about in the past, with his 'non-sleeper' Cascadia, who returned home last night, after running to Ohio, Michigan, and southwestern Illinois. He said his rates were so bad he only averaged about $1.60 per mile. When he asked me if I had decided to either buy another Star 5700 and Utility refer to expand my business, or get into the bulk load community, I said "not yet". When he mentioned he wanted to buy one of the new KW 990 with a 68 inch sleeper to pull his hopper, I asked him "Why? That would make your equipment heavy and you wouldn't be able to haul as much as I'm planning to haul". He asked what I was looking into and I told him a Star 4700 with a 40 inch bunk, along with the Eagle Bridge belt trailer". He said, "40 inch bunk? That's small!" I replied, "How big do you think the sleepers were in the four cabovers I've owned in the past? Look, I appreciate the fact that you want to run more legal, with a tractor with a proper sleeper, but you need to think about the weight of your equipment and haul as much as you can with loads hauled by the ton. Most drivers would love to have nice, big tractors with big sleepers, a refrigerater, and a microwave, but if you're in this business to make money, you need to really think about what you actually need to be successful. And a buck sixty a mile average is pathetic. You and your buddy's need to quit running so cheap!. His reply was, "Well, if I don't haul it someone else will". Unfortuneately, that's true.

$1.12 per mile to haul loads? Geez, these brokers have a lot of nerve! Should be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail. And I hope that broker reads these posts.

I've written another letter to the "experts" in Washington, again exprssing my opinion on how the H.O.S. should be fixed. Probably won't do any good; however, I'm sure they will receive similar letters from other industry "professionals" like me. What it's really going to take is a more drastic response to the situation. I don't believe in strikes, but something needs to happen. In all sectors of transportation.

I'm not sure about east of Ne, Ia,and Ks, but the biggest problem here is the big farmers all have trucks and better ones than I do. So in the winter when they have nothing to do it's sad but it is a hobby. So they will haul for anything just to get out of the house. And I actually had 3 farmers at the local cafe come right out and tell how if they just make enough to pay the fuel they are ok with it. And the brokers and elevators know it. And I know I'm going to hear I'm biting the hand that feeds me, but if I owned a huge trucking company and farmed on the side and cut the rate on selling cattle and grain I would be dirt. All I'm saying is you do your job and let me do mine.

Yes, we've covered this before. It's not always illegal. Many operate in the gray areas and not everyone uses a broker so this gives said carriers a massive edge if used accordingly.

"Farm Plates

Farm Registration allows reduced fees for farmers who haul their own commodities in a not-for-hire operation and certain for-hire purposes. No surety bond is required. Farm Plates may be used for trucks, truck tractors and trailers used in various farming operations. Farm Vehicles may be operated out-of -state on a limited basis. Illinois Farm Registration is recognized by most states. Before entering another state, however, truck operators should check with that state.

Farm Plates may be issued to any vehicle that is used exclusively for the owner's agricultural, horticultural or livestock operations and not-for-hire. Farm Plates may also be issued to for-hire vehicles only in the transportation of seasonal, fresh, perishable fruit or vegetables from the farm to the point of first processing. An applicant is limited to five sets of plates for power units, of which only two sets of plates may exceed 59,500 pounds plus two Farm Trailer Plates.

A UCR# or USDOT # may be required if your commodity that you are moving using the Farm Plate crosses jurisdictional boundaries or is taken out of state. You may deliver to a local elevator or processing station, but if that commodity is further shipped out of state, a UCR#/USDOT# may be required. The UCR#/USDOT# is actually a USDOT number. Please contact the Illinois Commerce Commission for further information on the UCR program or contact the USDOT for information regarding the USDOT number.

Farm plates may be purchased at the Commercial and Farm Truck Division office in Springfield and Level 3 Secretary of State facilities."

https://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/vehicles/cft/cft.html#farmplates

Not sure, sir. That stipulation isn't mentioned in the link I've provided above nor is it found in PA, MD, DE or VA that I know of. All I can say is I don't trust law enforcement and maybe your state is different. They all have little idiosyncrasies between them. I'd get the facts from the issuing departments and go from there if I was so inlcined. My point is that one can legally haul for hire in many states on farm registrations if they're well versed, connected and determined. Some also tend to bend the rules after they've been doing it a while too. That edge simply too enticing for some it seems.

If you want to broker freight, go get your authority and surety bond.

A last resort only.

Eric hit a nerve of mine the person who came up with the word BACKHAUL should be strung up!!! If you haul a load from point A to point B for a good rate and the load from point B back to point A is cheap not only are you getting screwed but the first shipper is to cause he paid the good rate to get you there and now the guy on the other end gets his done for nothing?? But evidently the shippers haven't figured it out yet either. I have been doing this for 30yrs and like everything else I don't understand, this job used to be fun, it was like the military truckers were a family and had a bond, but not anymore. Anyway enough of that. I will say i'm proud of Bulk Loads because on the load board it say's view reloads not back hauls so thank you!! I also have a bull rack and I can haul 60k legally and the last 6mo it's load 65k or we don't need you, so it's been sitting since Oct, again I don't understand, maybe it's just me LOL. Anyway a lot of bad weather out there so be safe and get back to the ones that really care about you!!

Most of the time those are very large steel mills with a millions rules to follow written on a thousand signs throughout the plant. Evreywhere just puts signs up written in 10 or more languages. I use my TWIC anywhere that asks for my driver's license but the only place I absolutely need it is at the Port. Nobody stores my DL anywhere. I won't let them photocopy it nor allow it to leave my hands.

I see a lot wrong with these opinions on low rates mainly because I'm young and new to the business but I will say my truck and wagon doesn't move without profiting truth is some of these high dollar rigs are taking freight cheap not for profit but for cash flow and when you roll in for a load in late model rig with nice equipment your showing you're customer your making money when in reality your working for free to have top of the line truck and trailer my opinion is "it ain't the chrome that gets you home" if it's your family and home life that matters then make it your first priority I've got less invested in my intire rig then some peoples full coverage insurance for a year but it's been all over east coast and keeps on keepin on

And you don't know who's swimming "naked" until the "tide" goes out.

You're not offending me that's for sure. I'm just pointing out that nice equipment actually makes a carrier money and increases potential to make even more money. Sure a ragged truck and trailer with a good driver will do great, no doubt. Brokers love combinations like that. They can depend on them, take a larger bite from the rate AND their customers could care less about who's moving their products or what their equipment looks like. However, I assure you good contract freight will demand a professional appearance and that includes the truck, trailer and the drivers attire/behavior.

So what you currently grossing and on how many miles?

You're not running at half the cost of anybody no matter what you're driving. I have 97 KW and a 2017 Timpte, it's all paid for and I figure my cost to run is 1.40 a mile, that's all miles without paying myself. 2 bucks all miles at the end of the week would put me at the same pay as a company driver, that means rates have to be at least 2.50 a loaded mile, how many loads do you see even close to that in a week?

I ask the broker for his 501c3 number so I can write off the difference required to make a good living

so far I haven’t gotten a number

Just getting back in I'll tell you most the work I've done has been averaging 2-3 dollars a mile which I'll be the first to say I'd like to see it higher but hey it's not even a living I would say but it's a start and guys don't think that the rate that's posted is what it has to go for try to negotiate maybe not even on the rate but just the time it takes them to pay nothing against factoring but it is a cost at the end of the day I do think times will get better for myself and fellow truckers hang in there guys we are in this together!

no such thing as a back haul.

I been told by trump that economi is booming any trumster can point me in the right direction? I just can't see it

I regularly see hopper loads paying over $2.00 a mile. (At least in my area) The problem is a lot of these loads are going somewhere where there is either nothing loading back, or nothing going anywhere near your area to get you home, and no one is willing to pay a round trip rate.

Good question. Lots of people willing to run for fuel only I guess. In business today but out of business before their authority even makes it to permanent status. If they even applied for a new one at all that is. These fly by night scoundrels love to buy "aged" MC numbers to get a slight edge in the business like lower Commerical Liablity insurance rates. Then you have their symbiotic couch surfing broker buddies who think as long as the run pays a minimum of $2/mile they'll get it moved...even if it's only 50 miles!

David, change has to start somewhere. I don't know how many bulk haulers you have in P.A., compared with midwest states, like Iowa or here in Illinois; however, have you given thought to possibly getting a bunch of your buddies together, like maybe 50 of them, to discuss the situation with prices to haul stuff for? I'd even drive over there to help you put on a program, as somewhat of a transportation expert. I need a road trip.

You know, prior to the Carter administration introducing de-regulation, freight companies had published rates. These rates did not change seasonally, or had been as cyclical as they are now. Sure, there was an annual slow down with freight from a couple of weeks before Christmas to the 1st of March; but, the shipping rates did not change. Only the volumn of freight available during those times.

Now, it's against the laws/rules to publish rates. However, if there was just some way of banding a group of drivers/owners together who would decide collectively on a rate NO ONE would go lower than, it would not take very long for shippers, and brokers, to realise they won't be able to request haulers pull loads on the cheap. Local farmers who are actually "Hobby Truckers" should also be invited and may learn the error of their ways. And these rates should be good year round.

If other individuals like you, in other states, would do the same thing, it may not take very long for this "movement" to sweep across the country. And this may possibly trickle down to other areas of exemp freight, like produce. Years ago while under contract for Jewel foods here in Chicago, my contracted rate through their buyers was $1.20 per mile. Now the buyers are getting products moved for $1.85 per mile. Over a 35 year period the cost for transporting produce has risen by .0177 each year. Pathetic and we only have de-regulation to blame for this.

The government isn't going to help us at all. No one will help. This must be done within this industry.

I've got flatbed loads weighing 44,000 going from dallas to georgia paying $1200 contact me at (626) 644-5172 !

You're joking, right?

For months now I have tried to give constructive information, or critisms, about the state of the transportation industry. At the risk of beating my head against the wall for a final time, let me try to enlighten a few of you.

De-regulation has created the climate where shippers, and an over abundance of brokers now, have worked hard to get drivers / O/Op's to bicker among themselves in their drive to get loads hauled for as cheap as possible. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOUR OPERATING EXPENSES ARE! THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS ARE RATES THAT ARE FAIR TO EVERYONE ENVOLVED. Throughout history there have ALWAYS been companies who are able to run at a better profit margin than their neighbor down the street. SO WHAT?? I've read comments of guys having very low operating expenses who can run at $1.42 a mile. WHY? All you are doing is playing into the hands of shippers / brokers who WANT YOU TO RUN THIS CHEAP! And you're screwing yourself at the same time! (Personally, I think that would feel uncomfortble.) And I'm not going to speak about the stupid farmer "Hobby Trucker" in today's post.

I've also read where some folks feel that $35 a ton, or $2.25 per mile, whichevery is greater, find this rate too low. Okay, another scenerio! Hypothetically, let's say, nationwide, bulk load haulers will not take ANY load for less than $40 per ton, or $2.50 per mile, whichever is greater. If all shippers got used to the idea that they will not be able to move their "stuff" for less, this would help all haulers. And, brokers will not "buy" loads from shippers at that rate, if they know they won't be able to broker it for less. if they can negotiate a higher rate from a shipper, again, SO WHAT? But, overall, how many brokers are going to be able to stay in business?

Once again, I've never been an advocate for strikes. And a decent change to our operating rates should not require one. It would take everyone who is man enough, or has the guts, to stand up for themselves, and their industry, and not haul anything for less than what all, collectively, could and should, agree on. And I don't believe it would take more than a week, with the adoption of improved rates, to give the shippers, and brokers, the message. Can't afford to possibly shut down for a week? You would be the perfect example on why it's necessary to put a movement like this into operation.

Please reply with what you feel would be a decent base rate. And don't say "$30 per ton, or $2.00 per mile, whichever is greater", because we all know that's too cheap.

Hi Morgan, if you are receiving $3 per mile, which is basically $48 per ton for 22 tons, (not knowing the type of equipment you run) that's a decent rate and more power to you. Your comment about a socialist overhaul to right the ship is wrong. Socialism is the last thing I would recommend, or believe in. (It's a shame younger people do not understand, or realize, what that means).

Back in the day, after WWII, manufacturing in this country was on a big roll. Trucking companies were springing up like crops in the field. When rates became standardised, this just added fuel to the fire for more companies to be born. Yes, a lot more companies were hauling the freight, and there was plenty of freight to go around. The ones that knew how to manage their money became very successful. And they emphasised providing quality service to their customers. Look and the names, and the number, of those who fell after the nation was screwed by de-regulation, when the rates fell off the cliff.

No, agreeing on setting a decent base rate for hauling exempt freight is not unreasonable, or Socialistic. The rate could only go higher from there, thus the free market at work. But, something needs to be done to protect haulers from possibly loosing everything, even if they don't really understand what their operating expenses are. Rates offered for $1.12 per mile is rediculas. Haulers who agree to running with low rates are one step away from a major breakdown that they can't afford to pay for, or will go in bigger debt for, and will eventually be weeded out of the industry.

I'm a retired Teamster; however, I don't like unions and know that a lot of industries moved overseas for their manufacturing because union demands became too great for many of them to be as profitable as they had been. I must give Trump credit for doing things that seem to be helping move some manufacturing back here with his "Put America first" ideas. We certainly don't need a unionized organization within bulk haulers. All we need are drivers/o.op's who will stand up for themselves and put their livelihoods and this industry on a better and more secure footing.

At this time, even with Spot market rates down, I'm not having big problems keeping our rates at a decent level, due to the service we provide. However, the only company I've been having a bit of a problem with is the newest client we've added. One that had been serviced by Celadon, before they went belly up. Had there been dishonest practices involving the upper management with Celadon? Apparently so. However, that wasn't the only problem. Their rates had been extremely low (competing with Swift, for example) And they had to borrow money to keep operating. No one should have to borrow money to do this! And my newest client had been used to paying bottom dollar to have their perishable loads hauled.

I know Kevin Knight, of Swift. Do you think he and his brother merged their companies, Swift/Knight, into one to build a huge and very profitble mega carrier? They did it for self preservation. Both companies haul for such a low rate, with most companies that they haul for, that, in some instances, they are in the hole for some shipments. By joining together they hoped to increase their profitability by sheer volumn of freight. I would be very surprised if their Net profit overall was greater than 2%. That's a lousy rate of return on their investment. But, this is a perfect example of what de-regulation has created. Will they be the next carrier to fall? Who knows.

Yes, banding together would be an ideal way to establish a decent base rate for hauling exempt freight. However, as I've said before, today we don't have enough folks with the guts/brains/backbone/ or desire, to do anything to help themselves and this industry.

Personally, I'm glad deregulation took place. The unions and railroads had the industry on lockdown. I wouldn't had been able to get my authority if it wasn't for deregulation. Monopolies are not our friends.

I'm sure glad your hauling that crap. We haul 389 miles for $1448. 4 days a week.

I totally agree. What are they doing with the HOS? The last thing I read actually seemed positive for a change. The stopping of the clock when in the sleeper I find to be very positive. Of course, they're running about a year late on releasing the revisions. Probably dragging their feet until they remove Trump.

https://www.fleetowner.com/safety/hos/article/21704154/5-key-changes-to-hos-rule-proposed-by-fmcsa

I believe you meant stopping the clock for a mid day meal break, which had always been the case under the old rules. Sould be the same for long delays at shipper/receiver. Time in sleeper had always been logged as sleeper birth, provided you operated with a proper sleeper.

Yup, changing from crap rates are what i've been emphasising.

Right, which is why the feds are reviewing this, after all the complaints they've received. Including mine. These "wheels" who have never even sat in a rig are the "experts" (?????)

Got a good one for you, David. It's not just brokers for bulk loads that have unreasonable rates. Got a call this afternoon from a lady who wanted a "grocery" load picked up in Champaign going to Northlake, IL. She was offering $500. When I asked if it was Kraft/Hienz she said she couldn't confirm unless I agreed to take it. (Kraft is the only manufacturer I'm familiar with in that area.) When I told her this was a local move that I must charge $125 per hour for, she said it's only 150 miles, so that should only be about 3 to 3 1/2 hours. DUH! When I explained that hourly means from the time my driver clocks in, the time it takes to drive 90 minnutes to the shipper, the time to get the wagon loaded, the time it takes to drive to Northlake, the time to get unloaded, and the time it takes my driver to return to the terminal, this equates to a days worth of work equalling about 12 hours. She paused and said, "$1500? I can't afford that and your rate is terrible!" I said, "No, you just basically want the load shipped for free!"

A fine example of a broker who does not understand what it takes to move a load of freight.

I don't know how many of you have the PRO version of Bulkloads, but I see Donna from King of Freight, posting way under what other shippers/brokers are paying all the time. One example is an 850 mile run she has posted for $58.50/ton, and another broker has the same load posted at $75/ton. Another one is Giltner. A little 185 mile load he had posted at $15.50/ton and the same load by another broker was at $26/ton. Though I applaud them for posting the rate...I guess...You would think they would have enough sense to pay for the PRO version so they too, could see how low they are compared to everyone else.

David, I've run into this problem in the past. Brokers do not want to disclose information on shippers for fear that a carrier would go around them and deal directly with the shipper/manufacturer for the load. If I had the equipment available I would have tried to negotiate a lower hourly rate to move the load. We have already pulled loads for Kraft, since they allow their pallets of non required refrigerated products to be loaded on a refer trailer. This manufacturer is a decent place to pick up loads. The problem is with the receiver where there are the usual delays, like those at most grocery outlets, with getting the wagon unloaded.

Yep on the bragging about $2/ mile. Long lines to dump, and reloading can be slow also. So it turns into a $625 day. Oh boy. And then they don't have any allowances for washout after the fertilizer. FSMA rules ya know. i have had email conversations to brokers and ask them if they have trucked. Most have not. Or they were in a dry van opperation. Bulk, and bulk feed ingredients require knowledge on what can and what can not be hauled back to back. And its going to get more complex as time goes on. I hope my good service can maintain my steady freight.

Wrong! Let someone try to prove collusion if/when most bulk haulers decide to only haul loads above a certain base rate. Personally, as I've suggested in the past, nothing below $35 per ton or $2.25 per mile, which ever is greater. This means, with a free market situation, any driver or small company has the opportunity of negotiating rates for $48 per ton, $45 per ton, or anything they can get. But, with the costs involved with opperating their rigs they should run at rates which are more reasonable and profitable. With your way of looking at things, look at the D.A.T. or Bulk Loads boards regarding the present Spot rates. Evidentally, brokers/shippers in all parts of the country offering loads at specific averages are involving themselves in collusion and keeping rates down for their specific areas.