Weekly gross revenue

That has nothing to do with the question for a low sided hopper.

I haul the same things the hoppers haul and the rates are the same in this area. If I want to make the same as a hopper I load more.

Thank you Tony your input more accurately describes what I am seeing.
I am not trying to create a massive uprising among the natives here , but what would happen if as a collective group of business men and women.
we all simply let the load brokers know we have to have better rates???

Hopper rates suck! You have to haul over 80,000 to even get close to $2.00 a mile. Then you have to deal with lines and slow facilities. We have very few hopper customers that pay us enough to run. Switched to van hauling where I can haul for $2.00 a mile and never gross over 80,000. I can run right down the interstate. I have done it for three years and only have had to charge demurrage once. I never have to fight product coming out of the trailer anymore or loading a trailer in bad weather or pay for washouts out of my own pocket. Usually can get 600-700 miles in a day. Most runs let me travel down the interstate so less stopping and starting, which means less wear and tear on the truck. Sure it isn't as cool as pulling a bullrack or hopper, but you gotta go where the money is.

Well said Mr. Jordan

I am a Flat Bed O/O that is leased onto a big carrier (Mercer). I live up here in Kansas City MO. Basically this is the battle I fight on a regular basis. I won't work for free. Would you go to North Carolina for $1.50 per mile.....or even less!! Their whole philosophy is "that's all we have....it's better than nothing."

I am currently evaluating if I should remain here, lease onto so one else or go get my own authority.

Ha ha Clint, I had the same thing with my Dad before he retired. I took him out on the hopper for three days at the end of the three days he said "Nope, I don't want to deal with all this sitting and waiting around for such little money". I was just trying to give him a gig that he could basically stay local instead of running dry van across country. He came back with "I can sit at home and just draw my social security instead of helping the big grain companies make even more money." I agreed with him 100%. The only time that hopper runs now is when it is paying at least $4.00 per mile or more. Not worth moving it for anything less, it won't go bad just sitting there. I have made enough off of it hauling frac sand. I will wait until the frac sand starts up again this summer and go back to making $4.00 - $6.00 per mile and not have to worry whether or not I am getting paid for demurrage (detention).

Grain products are some of the cheapest in the industry and that is why they don't pay a lot to haul them. On any given day I will haul 5 times the value of a hopper load in our dry vans. That is why other segments of the industry pay more. Risk vs Reward. We evaluate the risk and then assess the reward accordingly. If you are hauling a load of corn that is only valued at $3500.00 for the load and the standard rate should be 10% of the value of that load. Well that means that load of corn would pay $350.00. Now we can have a greater understanding why hauling grain is so cheap. Most bulk haulers only carry $25,000 in cargo while the minimum in other segments is often $100,000. Yet when you talk to a bulk hauler you would swear up and down that they are making ten times what the freighthauler does. Hmm, does that even add up?

My cousin and I were talking about this the other day, I told him that he basically turned me off from the hopper because of the idiocracy that continues to go on. He is always whining about how he does not make enough because of sitting in lines all the time. He gripes about the wash outs, he gripes about DOT banging on him. When I suggested he get under one of my dry vans, he came back with "I don't want to be a stupid freighthauler". Oh well I guess we will be the stupid ones for running at a profit and the only sitting we do is at a truck stop or at the house.

Don't get me wrong I like the attitude of the customers in the bulk world a lot better. I have figured out that they are freindly either because they know they are getting over on the trucker or because they likewise have to suck it up and drive on as well. I have met some great folks when running the hopper, they are hard working, fun to be around, but as soon as I hook up to my van the very next week they will be the first to flip me off when I wave at them going down the road. Ha Ha is what I say, I will put up with the crappy attitude in the freighthauler world for the better pay. Go ahead you all keep flipping us off, the only flipping I care about is the counting of dollars in our bank account.

That is the way to do it. Engage each other with business thought. Far too long we have been bickering and the other sides have been snickering. I am observing a new movement among us Independents. We now seem to be willing to validate our statements with math instead of just emotion. This is when the other side gets concerned, when logical folks start working together then much can be accomplished.

Alfred has this figured out.

The one thing I will say about vans is to protect yourself from loss. Inspect the product going on, count the cases, and for the love of god have the shipper and receiver write the seal number on the BOL (and POD if it is a blind load). I have had loads where it's a shipper load/driver count, driver sat in his truck during loading, signed his BOLs, no seal, and then delivers 2 pallets of candy or some other overpriced product short for an $8,000 claim.

The worst part is is that insurance doesn't cover "mysterious disappearance of product."

Protect yourselves if you're running van/reefer freight.

Thank you Pete. There is a chance that my negotiating skills are not as seasoned as yours. I can't get those numbers. Last week including all empty miles the average revenue per mile was $1.82 my total gross earnings came to $4367.26. As close as I can compute it costs $1.30 to operate providing I am satisfied with eating a ham sandwich for lunch.

This is so right on the money Alfred. It's amazing that some call people " dumb" for hauling freight but in reality isn't grain and other bulk loads "FREIGHT" ? Most of the problem was stated here...big ego's won't pay the bills fellas!!!! Pride is a very dangerous state of mind...it will get you every time. Please, let's all try to get along. It's gonna be a long ride.

One of my Cousins bougth his own truck. I would have bet anyone that day he would never make it. Why would I do that on my own kin?? Hauled with him when we were both hauling Logs for the same guy. I would get 2 or 3 more loads per day then him. Why and how could I do that? WORK.!! Even thought it was not my truck. I always ran someone else's truck just like it was mine. If there was one more load to get, you would see me getting it.
Dave would stop eary where he could get to the bar. Or find something that had to be done. But always left early. Now he did start early but never finished late. He bought his own truck. Fist mistake was it was a fleet truck. Only 500,000 miles. Looked good but never taken care of. Frist 6 months new brakes, New brake pods, New drum's, New U joints, New frontend. All this was at the same time that fuel went througth the roof. Old Dave would run hard. I'mm talking about run where he needed 2 log books to run. Wide open everywhere. Get within 8 or 10 hours of the house on a Friday at Noon. He would deadhead home rather then wait and load the next day. Why party life he had to be with his friends..
I asked him how $450 extra per week would make his bottom like look? He told me it would almost make it where it was getting paid. I asked him if he ever thought about running slower? Truck was getting 4.3 MPG and he idleds it 24/7. He was sick for a week, his neighber that was laid off ran the truck for him. This old man ran more miles that week. Got 6.1 MPG as he also ran slower and did not idle the truck when it did not need it. Even after that Left lane Lead foot Dave was not going to run slower speed. Shut the truck down when it did not need to be running. Or lay over for a load and run a weekend.. 11 as an Owner Oprator he has the truck taken from him. Get this $75,000 in the hole on everything from that
And to this day its everyone's fault but his own. He did everything right and there's just no chance for anyone to make it owning one truck.

Also forgot to add he went throught 2.5 sets of drive tires in that 11 months.. 600 HP engine and putting all 2000+ lbs to the ground. He would chew tires like crazy. But you could not get him to drive different.. But He was a Super Trucker for a little while..Now he's driving for someone else. Still sneaks off early if they don't watch him..
Pete

David please do not let all these guys blow smoke up your well you know all thes guy's spouting this big money crap are doing just that and these van guy's everybody knows van rates are the cheapest in the industry so let's be realistic I've been in this business for forty years and one of the most important lessons I've learned is never go after the so called big money hauling that is consistent and turns a profit wins out every time in the hopper business you should shoot for a minimum of 2500 a week and have your cost of operation work at that so then when you have a $4000 week that will put a lot of extra dollars in your pocket well that's my 2 cents worth I wish you great success

do you think i am to high or to low.

I would say he could be correct. Depends on how much insurance he carries and what his insurance costs him. Also depends if he has to make equipment payments. Another thing people have to figure is if they have hired drivers. If you have hired drivers then you need to carry workman's comp which can be anywhere from 15% to 25% of gross income. Now it doesn't cost me that much to run just because the drivers are owners and in Nebraska if you own the company you don't have to have workmans comp

I just paid a truck $4.20/loaded mile cdn for loads going down to the states, even with the exchange that's better, hope things pick up for youse guys