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What's wrong with you brokers?

Dec 26, 2019 at 11:13 AM CST
+ 51 - 13
It seems you brokers are stuck in the past when it comes to rates... why are you having rates at the same price as a year ago or below... Owner/operators every where are wondering....
Replied on Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 03:17 PM CST
+ 15 - 1

Randy it is not always the broker that sets the rates. The shippers we deal with set rates to us and we go from there. There is a massive problem with TRUCKERS hauling for a cheaper rate than they should. I can't tell you how many times i have heard that a TRUCKER will underbid a broker so he or she can get the load and then they can raise it up to a more correct level. That theory never works. Once someone breaks a rate it can take nearly forever to get it raised again. You Truckers can always use the magic word "NO" and not haul it. If you have noticed during this holiday season, there are some pretty good rates out there to be had all because people decided to go home for Christmas and New Years. Quit blaming someone else for your problems and find the rates that fit you and your operation. What areas are you willing to run? What products are you willing to haul? That has a large impact on your ability to get rates that are reasonable. Blaming brokers is lame way of saying that you don't have the balls to go out and find the loads that will make you profitable.

Replied on Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 08:11 AM CST
+ 5 - 5
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "Randy it is not always the broker that sets the rates. The shippers we deal with set rates to us and we go from there. There is a massive problem with TRUCKERS hauling for a cheaper rate than they should. I can't tell you how many times i have heard that a TRUCKER will underbid a broker so he or she can get the load and then they can raise it up to a more correct level. That theory never works. Once someone breaks a rate it can take nearly forever to get it raised again. You Truckers can always use the magic word "NO" and not haul it. If you have noticed during this holiday season, there are some pretty good rates out there to be had all because people decided to go home for Christmas and New Years. Quit blaming someone else for your problems and find the rates that fit you and your operation. What areas are you willing to run? What products are you willing to haul? That has a large impact on your ability to get rates that are reasonable. Blaming brokers is lame way of saying that you don't have the balls to go out and find the loads that will make you profitable."

You BROKERS can also use the magic word, "NO" and tell the shipper it's too low. OR you can take a smaller bite from the rate. We both know neither one of those is going to happen though.

Replied on Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 08:20 AM CST
+ 9 - 1
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "You BROKERS can also use the magic word, "NO" and tell the shipper it's too low. OR you can take a smaller bite from the rate. We both know neither one of those is going to happen though."

YOU WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED AT HOW MANY LOADS I TURN DOWN IN A DAY BECAUSE THE RATE DOESN'T FIT WHAT MY DRIVERS NEED. MR KROUSE, YOU APPEAR TO BE ONE THAT IS VERY QUICK TO BLAME SOMEONE ELSE FOR YOUR PROBLEMS. IF A RATE DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU SAY NO AND WALK AWAY. BITCHING ABOUT IT DOESN'T SOLVE MANY PROBLEMS. IF TRUCKERS WOULD PUT THEIR FOOT DOWN AND SAY NO, RATES WOULD SOON RISE. HOWEVER FOR EVERY ONE THAT SAYS NO THERE WILL BE 10 OTHERS THAT WILL BEAT EACH OTHER UP OVER A CHEAP RATE. CATOOSA OKLAHOMA, AND INOLA OKLAHOMA ARE PRIME EXAMPLES OF THIS. RATES SUCK DOWN THERE ALL THE TIME BUT THERE ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE A TRUCKER THAT WILL HAUL IT. STOP SHOOTING YOURSELF IN THE FOOT

Replied on Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 10:51 AM CST
+ 2 - 1
Every shipper/Broker wants to believe that their rate is generous, but if none of us carriers can sell it to a driver, then what good is it? The big fleets are closing the doors, just like the small ones, at a time when the stock market is setting records? Obviously those record profits came out of the truckers pocket.
Replied on Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 12:23 PM CST
Any doubts how this works,look at Amazon and all the profits they are showing however a large part of the carriers that teamed with them have gone under,stopped doing business with them,or are struggling.Thats what happens when you let a company dictate rates because of their size,even Amazon would have to pay to get their products delivered if these people would remember the story of David and Goliath.
Replied on Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 02:38 PM CST
+ 4 - 6
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "YOU WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED AT HOW MANY LOADS I TURN DOWN IN A DAY BECAUSE THE RATE DOESN'T FIT WHAT MY DRIVERS NEED. MR KROUSE, YOU APPEAR TO BE ONE THAT IS VERY QUICK TO BLAME SOMEONE ELSE FOR YOUR PROBLEMS. IF A RATE DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU SAY NO AND WALK AWAY. BITCHING ABOUT IT DOESN'T SOLVE MANY PROBLEMS. IF TRUCKERS WOULD PUT THEIR FOOT DOWN AND SAY NO, RATES WOULD SOON RISE. HOWEVER FOR EVERY ONE THAT SAYS NO THERE WILL BE 10 OTHERS THAT WILL BEAT EACH OTHER UP OVER A CHEAP RATE. CATOOSA OKLAHOMA, AND INOLA OKLAHOMA ARE PRIME EXAMPLES OF THIS. RATES SUCK DOWN THERE ALL THE TIME BUT THERE ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE A TRUCKER THAT WILL HAUL IT. STOP SHOOTING YOURSELF IN THE FOOT "

Just a little, FYI. Yelling and screaming doesn't make you correct not does it get your point across any better. So save your TYPING IN ALL CAPS FOR THE TYPING AND INTERNET ETIQUETTE CLASSES YOU SO DESPERATETLY NEED. The original poster has a legitimate complaint. You're the one that responded to him in a very insulting and accusational manner. You should look in the mirror. Secondly, I'm not complaining about rates. If I don't get what I want I simply don't haul for the customer. Us carriers know the lower paying commodities could still work for many of our needs. The problem in that regard is the middle men BROKERS and 3PLs that are taking a bite out of a rate that's already borderline. I see it every single day in the flatbed world. I get load lists from particular shippers that I haul for periodically then I see those loads reposted on the boards for as much as THIRTY PERCENT taken off! Then they kick the carrier in the balls on top of it all demanding it gets tarped even the customer does NOT require it. That is absolutely ludicrous on lower paying frieght like lumber. I've also seen it right here on Bulkloads. Brokers posting loads from shippers/receivers I'm already direct with that are, again as much as THIRTY PERCENT off the rate the customer wants. I've also see some take 15 percent AND the fuel surcharge. Theft and greed! No other way around it. Then you sit there and have the audacity to blame the carrier while the BROKER is just as much to blame if not even more so because they don't have as much to lose so they can bargain even harder but instead the BROKER squeezes and steals from the carrier. People like you really get under my skin. I feel pretty confident that the original poster didn't post to be attacked by you, sir. Have a good day!

Replied on Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 03:23 PM CST
+ 4 - 2
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "Just a little, FYI. Yelling and screaming doesn't make you correct not does it get your point across any better. So save your TYPING IN ALL CAPS FOR THE TYPING AND INTERNET ETIQUETTE CLASSES YOU SO DESPERATETLY NEED. The original poster has a legitimate complaint. You're the one that responded to him in a very insulting and accusational manner. You should look in the mirror. Secondly, I'm not complaining about rates. If I don't get what I want I simply don't haul for the customer. Us carriers know the lower paying commodities could still work for many of our needs. The problem in that regard is the middle men BROKERS and 3PLs that are taking a bite out of a rate that's already borderline. I see it every single day in the flatbed world. I get load lists from particular shippers that I haul for periodically then I see those loads reposted on the boards for as much as THIRTY PERCENT taken off! Then they kick the carrier in the balls on top of it all demanding it gets tarped even the customer does NOT require it. That is absolutely ludicrous on lower paying frieght like lumber. I've also seen it right here on Bulkloads. Brokers posting loads from shippers/receivers I'm already direct with that are, again as much as THIRTY PERCENT off the rate the customer wants. I've also see some take 15 percent AND the fuel surcharge. Theft and greed! No other way around it. Then you sit there and have the audacity to blame the carrier while the BROKER is just as much to blame if not even more so because they don't have as much to lose so they can bargain even harder but instead the BROKER squeezes and steals from the carrier. People like you really get under my skin. I feel pretty confident that the original poster didn't post to be attacked by you, sir. Have a good day! "

Mr Krouse, If i was yelling and screaming at you believe me there would be no doubt in anyone's mind about it. As for attacking Randy, that was not the intention. The intention was to point out the obvious that there are as many carriers out there whacking away at rates as there are brokers and 3pls. I can't count the times that a carrier has tried to go around me and cut a rate to less than what I have been paying them. If you don't use brokers that's fine. Don't use them. It is too easy to blame your shortcomings on someone else. I have a much different point of view than you or Randy do. I have been on the merchandising side of things, I have been on the buying side of things, I have been in this game as an owner operator and I have been in this game as a broker for a good many years. You have a totally different view than i have and that is fine. I don't agree with your temper tantrums or accusations. I'll leave it at that and wish you a profitable New Year.

Replied on Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 08:22 PM CST
+ 4 - 5
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "Mr Krouse, If i was yelling and screaming at you believe me there would be no doubt in anyone's mind about it. As for attacking Randy, that was not the intention. The intention was to point out the obvious that there are as many carriers out there whacking away at rates as there are brokers and 3pls. I can't count the times that a carrier has tried to go around me and cut a rate to less than what I have been paying them. If you don't use brokers that's fine. Don't use them. It is too easy to blame your shortcomings on someone else. I have a much different point of view than you or Randy do. I have been on the merchandising side of things, I have been on the buying side of things, I have been in this game as an owner operator and I have been in this game as a broker for a good many years. You have a totally different view than i have and that is fine. I don't agree with your temper tantrums or accusations. I'll leave it at that and wish you a profitable New Year."

Randy simply wanted to know why brokers are offering such low rates. You filled in imaginary blanks after that full of assumptions. You're the one who made this into a carrier vs broker deal. I've been on multiple sides of this "game" too. You have a different point of view because you're obviously biased as a broker. I also believe you felt the need to post because you're the type that Randy is referring to. You took it personal because he struck a nerve. I could care less about your feelings on my "temper tantrums or accusations". Maybe if you brokers were to start doing the right thing we wouldn't be hearing so much negativity about you. Brokers have such bad reputations for a reason. It's not coincidence at all. The poster wasn't calling YOU out by name but yet you felt it appropriate to get on here and lambaste all carriers. Call it whatever you want but you're dilusional if you think I'm going to sit around and watch some broker blame it all on the carrier. When the carriers have been around from the start and got along just fine before you and they'll get along even better when you're gone.

One thing, besides blatant theft that most of you have in common is ya'll blame the carrier and always claim to be "one of the good ones" who are the perfect angels who always seem to have the carrier's interest at heart. It's like you collectively went to some sort of, "How To Speak Like A Politician" training course. Yeah, well 100 percent transparency or you're lying. Show the carrier exactly what you're making off it. I'll bet my life 85 percent of you are taking a minimum of 25 percent off the top yet you claim to only be taking 10-15 percent. If we're in a down cycle and the rates drop then your percentage should too. Nevermind fuel surcharges and other accessorials ya'll are putting in your pockets. Shame on ya'll for such thievery. I've seen some very crudy shit on the boards and had to fend off many attempted thefts from my revenue on the spot market. If the shipper is paying an average fair rate of (for argument sake) $2/mile you're putting the carrier in a bad place after you take anything from that rate but you will anyway. You know it and I know it too.

For the record, I do agree that some carriers are taking rates that pay too low. However, some carriers that made their rate off the "head haul" to pay the round trip so they'll pick up a "back haul" for anything because it's basically free money. I do not agree with this as it's hurts lane rates if they haul too low but it is what is. Of course, there's also guys that can run for $1.35/mile all year long and make it work. Again, it is what it is. It's a free market whether we agree or not. Happy New Year!

Replied on Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 08:23 PM CST
+ 7 - 1
I can see a broker responding to my post and blaming the carriers. I expected no less, basically what you have is the broker is taking any where from 5 to 15 percent off the top maybe more and then spouting off they just won't pay anymore... smh you guys are what's wrong with trucking, your greed your double and triple brokering the same load... yes I can tell you straight up I don't haul cheap, I say no all the time to your cheap ass freight.... but you always seem to get it hauled by the guys who don't have the proper insurance, that truck hauling for hire on a farm tag... I thought you all did a better job vetting your carriers but seeing it happen every day it's all about moving that product and putting money in your pocket
Replied on Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 08:23 PM CST
+ 3
Mr.Krouse
How is it you manage to attack the 2 nicest brokers in the business?
If you don't like the rates don't haul it. If you don't like brokers don't haul for them. EASY.

Art Pfluger
Replied on Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 06:39 AM CST
+ 2
Mr.Krouse
We all can't lay all of the problems at the feet of the brokers. Its the idiots that agree to haul for cheap. They always have an excuse. Part of the trip pays ok but they need a little more to make it work so they take a leg for nothing and then it works. We're all faced with this scenario. Some of us say no and others don't. The bigger the trucker the more likely to take a shit load to make it work.
At the same time there are brokers that cut the rate and assume we the truckers will go for it. Right now all the low lifes are racing to the bottom for walking floors between the texas panhandle and Arizona. The rates are $1000 less than 8 years ago. What's going on in this lane right now is beyond belief, criminal. But its those that accept this bullying that are equally to blame.
Please quit throwing stones with no facts. You have the ability to go back thru forum posts. Do your due diligence and stop blaming everyone else. If you spout stupid stuff people quit Listening.

Art Pfluger
Replied on Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 12:12 PM CST
+ 2 - 2
Originally Posted by: RANDY SWOPES
Quote: "I can see a broker responding to my post and blaming the carriers. I expected no less, basically what you have is the broker is taking any where from 5 to 15 percent off the top maybe more and then spouting off they just won't pay anymore... smh you guys are what's wrong with trucking, your greed your double and triple brokering the same load... yes I can tell you straight up I don't haul cheap, I say no all the time to your cheap ass freight.... but you always seem to get it hauled by the guys who don't have the proper insurance, that truck hauling for hire on a farm tag... I thought you all did a better job vetting your carriers but seeing it happen every day it's all about moving that product and putting money in your pocket"

I'm direct with several shippers that send out load lists and know what they're asking as far as rates go. Then all the brokers who are also on said load lists will put the loads up on the boards with as much as 30 percent off the rate. I've even caught them stealing accessorials and fuel surcharges. I've numerous shipping managers confide in me about loads not getting moved on time and trucks not showing up. They're getting pretty fed up with broker lies too. If there really are any honest brokers out there they should be cleaning house but they aren't because they don't exist. They're too busy trying to silence or delegitimize those who speak out against them.

Replied on Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 12:12 PM CST
+ 4

I book all my loads with brokers. I use 2 or 3 brokers for most of my loads. I have a late model tractor and a late model trailer (not new). I try to be responsible and professional with every load. I run whatever tracking app that's required. I communicate and check with my brokers on every load. I pick up on time and deliver on time and if something happens that's gonna make me late, I immediately contact my broker. I said all that to say this: The biggest problem in a broker's day, which they often share with me is the fires they have to put out every day with other drivers. They like me and like booking loads for me because they don't have to put out fires that I caused. Some of that cheap freight out there that brokers are booking with some carriers is part of the reason they have so many fires to put out. Irresponsible drivers and carriers that don't do their jobs, with pos equipment that's constantly breaking down. That's some of the consequence of booking cheap freight. Point being, like most things in this world, "you get what you pay for". Brokers have a say and can negotiate with shippers just as carriers can negotiate with brokers. Do the carriers and drivers have a responsibilty in this whole senario? Yes! Do the brokers have a responsibilty in this? Yes! If we can't work together to make a reasonable positive change to the freight rates, what will happen and already does happen is simple. Some smaller carriers are going straight to shippers and manufacturers and negotiating contracts directly with them. I know some who have already done this and done it quite successfully. If we all don't work together to make this freight market more consistently profitable for all of us, then as smaller carrier, we too may go that way. Something will change. Just look at all the carriers small and large that have have certain divisions of their companies and many who have closed their doors completely this year. Brokers can't let shippers dictate prices anymore than carriers can let brokers dictate prices to us.

Replied on Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 12:12 PM CST
+ 1 - 4
Originally Posted by: ROSE PFLUGER
Quote: "Mr.Krouse We all can't lay all of the problems at the feet of the brokers. Its the idiots that agree to haul for cheap. They always have an excuse. Part of the trip pays ok but they need a little more to make it work so they take a leg for nothing and then it works. We're all faced with this scenario. Some of us say no and others don't. The bigger the trucker the more likely to take a shit load to make it work. At the same time there are brokers that cut the rate and assume we the truckers will go for it. Right now all the low lifes are racing to the bottom for walking floors between the texas panhandle and Arizona. The rates are $1000 less than 8 years ago. What's going on in this lane right now is beyond belief, criminal. But its those that accept this bullying that are equally to blame. Please quit throwing stones with no facts. You have the ability to go back thru forum posts. Do your due diligence and stop blaming everyone else. If you spout stupid stuff people quit Listening. Art Pfluger "

Ok, Captain Sav-a-broker. I listed exactly what I've seen on this board (THEFT/FRAUD) as well as most of my personal experiences (MORE THEFT/FRAUD) and you are calling me a liar. I don't appreciate that at all. I'm very confident this board is dominated by brokers and broker-suckers like yourself. It's crystal clear you have an agenda all while calling the free market "criminal". If they're legally running then you simply can't compete.Take your own advice and stop blaming others. That's exactly what you do though. Time and time again you blame the carrier while exonerating the brokers. You fill me with the urge to vomit.

Replied on Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 11:48 AM CST
+ 2
Most of us find bulkloads to be useful, it is a tool in our tool box so to speak. I use it to get a snapshot of the market, it tells me what’s moving, and what’s not in certain lanes. For example when you see the same loads being reposted by multiple brokers, it’s generally because broker A can’t make it move, so he farms it out to try and retain his customer. Guess what that means? And when I see new brokers come into a familiar shipper, it tells me that everyone is rebidding, so there are opertunities opening up, because nobody can be everywhere at once. Often times the only way to get more money from a shipper, is to pull up stakes and go try something new. If you want to advance in this industry, you need to be willing to move around, don’t become a homing pigeon, become a hunter, learn to track and stalk the freight as if it is game.
Replied on Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 11:07 PM CST
+ 4
I kinda thought the purpose of a load board was to connect shippers, brokers, and carriers. When you insult an entire segment of the industry what do you expect to happen? They are going to defend their position and probably be defended by another segment as well. Case in point is this entire thread. Grow up dude you negative attitude is getting old fast.
Replied on Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 09:02 AM CST
+ 5 - 4
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "Randy it is not always the broker that sets the rates. The shippers we deal with set rates to us and we go from there. There is a massive problem with TRUCKERS hauling for a cheaper rate than they should. I can't tell you how many times i have heard that a TRUCKER will underbid a broker so he or she can get the load and then they can raise it up to a more correct level. That theory never works. Once someone breaks a rate it can take nearly forever to get it raised again. You Truckers can always use the magic word "NO" and not haul it. If you have noticed during this holiday season, there are some pretty good rates out there to be had all because people decided to go home for Christmas and New Years. Quit blaming someone else for your problems and find the rates that fit you and your operation. What areas are you willing to run? What products are you willing to haul? That has a large impact on your ability to get rates that are reasonable. Blaming brokers is lame way of saying that you don't have the balls to go out and find the loads that will make you profitable."

As a former broker I call bullshit. The rates the customer is paying are good but as soon as the broker gets it they take a big piece of it for themselves so they can make money. Crooks that's what brokers are. That's why they hate when trucks work direct for the customer because broker makes nothing. I have been solely customer based 17 yrs. I will never use a broker. Brokers have tried to get the work from my customers but we stick together. Screw the broker we dont need you.
Replied on Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 03:10 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "YOU WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED AT HOW MANY LOADS I TURN DOWN IN A DAY BECAUSE THE RATE DOESN'T FIT WHAT MY DRIVERS NEED. MR KROUSE, YOU APPEAR TO BE ONE THAT IS VERY QUICK TO BLAME SOMEONE ELSE FOR YOUR PROBLEMS. IF A RATE DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU SAY NO AND WALK AWAY. BITCHING ABOUT IT DOESN'T SOLVE MANY PROBLEMS. IF TRUCKERS WOULD PUT THEIR FOOT DOWN AND SAY NO, RATES WOULD SOON RISE. HOWEVER FOR EVERY ONE THAT SAYS NO THERE WILL BE 10 OTHERS THAT WILL BEAT EACH OTHER UP OVER A CHEAP RATE. CATOOSA OKLAHOMA, AND INOLA OKLAHOMA ARE PRIME EXAMPLES OF THIS. RATES SUCK DOWN THERE ALL THE TIME BUT THERE ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE A TRUCKER THAT WILL HAUL IT. STOP SHOOTING YOURSELF IN THE FOOT "

Duane. Hey man I know how good you are at this ,and give it up you can not fix it . know what I mean

Replied on Wed, Jan 01, 2020 at 08:27 AM CST
+ 1

BLAME THE GOVERNMENT FOR DE REGULATING THE TRUCKING INDUSTRY BACK IN THE 70'S & 80"S . THAT ALLOWED ANYONE WHO WANTED TO GET THERE AUTHIORITY TO HAUL. WHERE AS BEFORE ANOTHER TRUCKER COULD FILE A PETITION TO HAVE THERE AUTHORITY BLOCKED AND PROTECT HIS HAULING INTREST. THIS ALSO OPENED THE CAN OF WORMS FOR ALL THE LOGISTICS AND BROKERAGE OR SO CALLED PAPER PUSHERS TO START MEDDELING IN THE FREIGHT BUSINESS. BEFORE ALL THIS YOU COULD DEAL DIRECTLY WITH SHIPPERS BUT NOT NOW BECAUSE IT'S EASIER TO LET SOMEONE ELSE FIND THE TRUCKS TO HAUL YOUR FREIGHT THAN IT IS TO ACTUALLY GET OFF YOUR ASS AND DO THE WORK YOURSELF. I HAVE SEEN SOME LOADS EVEN BEING DOUBLE BROKERED. THE MORE MONKEYS IN THE POT THE CHEAPER THE RATE GETS. WHEN YOU HAVE TO STEAL FROM THE GUY ACTUALLY DOING THE WORK IT'S A SORRY WORLD. EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO MAKE A PROFIT BUT GREED WILL BE YOUR DOWNFALL IN THE END.

Replied on Wed, Jan 01, 2020 at 10:45 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DARREN BATES
Quote: "BLAME THE GOVERNMENT FOR DE REGULATING THE TRUCKING INDUSTRY BACK IN THE 70'S & 80"S . THAT ALLOWED ANYONE WHO WANTED TO GET THERE AUTHIORITY TO HAUL. WHERE AS BEFORE ANOTHER TRUCKER COULD FILE A PETITION TO HAVE THERE AUTHORITY BLOCKED AND PROTECT HIS HAULING INTREST. THIS ALSO OPENED THE CAN OF WORMS FOR ALL THE LOGISTICS AND BROKERAGE OR SO CALLED PAPER PUSHERS TO START MEDDELING IN THE FREIGHT BUSINESS. BEFORE ALL THIS YOU COULD DEAL DIRECTLY WITH SHIPPERS BUT NOT NOW BECAUSE IT'S EASIER TO LET SOMEONE ELSE FIND THE TRUCKS TO HAUL YOUR FREIGHT THAN IT IS TO ACTUALLY GET OFF YOUR ASS AND DO THE WORK YOURSELF. I HAVE SEEN SOME LOADS EVEN BEING DOUBLE BROKERED. THE MORE MONKEYS IN THE POT THE CHEAPER THE RATE GETS. WHEN YOU HAVE TO STEAL FROM THE GUY ACTUALLY DOING THE WORK IT'S A SORRY WORLD. EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO MAKE A PROFIT BUT GREED WILL BE YOUR DOWNFALL IN THE END."

You prefer a system where the government picks the winners and the losers? What makes you think they'd pick you?
Replied on Thu, Jan 02, 2020 at 07:03 AM CST
It would appear that both sides are right. BOTH SIDES need to learn to say no. Average cost of truck operations are over $1.80 per mile according to a report listed by this site. Brokers need to realize that it takes money to operate a truck and drivers need to learn to stick to their resolve and say NO TO CHEAP FREIGHT. I WONT HAUL FOR LESS THAN $1.70 PER MILE...and that's if i have to get somewhere in short order. Otherwise its ALWAYS north of $2.00. I wont go broke while making brokers or shippers a profit...period. Everybody needs to step up and raise the bar...or go broke and take the rest of small o/o with you. You dont deserve better pay because you dont demand it, you knuckle under and then bitch about the other guy...grow up. You all act like a bunch of self entitled mommas boys, (and girls). You get what you earn and that includes RESPECT.
Replied on Thu, Jan 02, 2020 at 07:04 AM CST
Originally Posted by: MICHAEL TSCHIDA
Quote: "You prefer a system where the government picks the winners and the losers? What makes you think they'd pick you?"

Economic regulation didn’t really pick winners and losers, it just made sure that stupid people couldn’t harm everyone else, Just like quarentine laws protect us from people with deadly diseases like Ebola virus. What we have now is a system where the actions of a few stupid people, are affecting the rest of us, and quite frankly in any other situation you would be able to sue people who cause you financial harm. Today you have others making rates and policy for you, because they hijacked the government, and you have no representation, they tell you what to do, how to do it, THEY OWN YOU, case in point it’s illegal for independent contractors to form a union or strike.
Replied on Thu, Jan 02, 2020 at 07:28 AM CST
+ 2
Originally Posted by: MICHAEL TSCHIDA
Quote: "You prefer a system where the government picks the winners and the losers? What makes you think they'd pick you?"

Well said. In some cases, not having competition for transportation, a business could go under because trucking rates are too high to turn a profit selling products competatively, if a trucker got greedy.... therefore hurting the economy. there are so many scenarious could be played out, free market is best. Find your niche and go with it.
That said, i can see all sides to the arguments, there are some crappy brokers, but the truckers don't always understand everything they are putting up with, and some customers dont want to field all the calls to hundreds of customers in a week, rather 1 broker to dish it out....

BUT for crying out loud, can't you guys have a discussion discussing opposing points of veiw without getting your undies all up in a bunch!!!? Just state your point without all the extra DRAMA and BS, and you can avoid looking like a total fool to all the other brokers and carriers reading this thread..... SMH
Replied on Thu, Jan 02, 2020 at 08:08 AM CST
Originally Posted by: PHILLIP TROUDT
Quote: "It would appear that both sides are right. BOTH SIDES need to learn to say no. Average cost of truck operations are over $1.80 per mile according to a report listed by this site. Brokers need to realize that it takes money to operate a truck and drivers need to learn to stick to their resolve and say NO TO CHEAP FREIGHT. I WONT HAUL FOR LESS THAN $1.70 PER MILE...and that's if i have to get somewhere in short order. Otherwise its ALWAYS north of $2.00. I wont go broke while making brokers or shippers a profit...period. Everybody needs to step up and raise the bar...or go broke and take the rest of small o/o with you. You dont deserve better pay because you dont demand it, you knuckle under and then bitch about the other guy...grow up. You all act like a bunch of self entitled mommas boys, (and girls). You get what you earn and that includes RESPECT."

Phillip, are you part of the Troudt family that used to run Cornhusker Transportation in Omaha a few years back. Nothing nefarious about the question just curious. I came fairly close to working in Cornhusker's dispatch department 20 years or so ago.

Replied on Thu, Jan 02, 2020 at 12:05 PM CST
+ 2
Originally Posted by: BRUCE GARMAN
Quote: "Well said. In some cases, not having competition for transportation, a business could go under because trucking rates are too high to turn a profit selling products competatively, if a trucker got greedy.... therefore hurting the economy. there are so many scenarious could be played out, free market is best. Find your niche and go with it. That said, i can see all sides to the arguments, there are some crappy brokers, but the truckers don't always understand everything they are putting up with, and some customers dont want to field all the calls to hundreds of customers in a week, rather 1 broker to dish it out.... BUT for crying out loud, can't you guys have a discussion discussing opposing points of veiw without getting your undies all up in a bunch!!!? Just state your point without all the extra DRAMA and BS, and you can avoid looking like a total fool to all the other brokers and carriers reading this thread..... SMH"

Bruce Why is it ok for the truckers to go broke, but not the shippers? The shippers always had the option to buy their own trucks, and operate their own fleet, so they were never victims of price fixing, it’s a false argument. Since the brokers commission is paid by the carriers, the carriers interests should come first, not the shippers.
Replied on Thu, Jan 02, 2020 at 04:55 PM CST
+ 2

maybe y'all should just find direct customers.

Replied on Thu, Jan 02, 2020 at 10:27 PM CST
+ 1
Seems to me the quickest way to find out who the problem is would be to post your loads publicly with all information, like how much the shipper pays the broker. Then accept public bids from carriers. See where the rate goes. Maybe us truckers would be to blame, maybe not
Replied on Fri, Jan 03, 2020 at 08:10 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Seems to me the quickest way to find out who the problem is would be to post your loads publicly with all information, like how much the shipper pays the broker. Then accept public bids from carriers. See where the rate goes. Maybe us truckers would be to blame, maybe not"

Absolutely! 100 percent transparency would prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that most brokers are stealing from the carrier and/or the customer simultaneously. Ever ask one for proof of what their customer is paying? I do it often because I enjoy the ridiculous reactions I get. Some really go off the handle while others start stuttering like fools clamering for a response to a question they've never heard before. Good stuff! A large majority of these fly by night brokers are just resellers. They're not actually contracted with the shipper at all. The shipper dictatates the rate and broker just throws it on the boards with their percentage removed. They spend all day digitally fishing for that moron guppy. The REAL brokerages like 3PLs are the ones contracted with the customer then they toss it out to smaller brokers from there and they will again take another bite from the rate before it gets to the carrier.

So much money is made off the carrier, it's pathetic. Just look at your gross side by side with your NET. It paints a very chilling picture. Guys that run spot market frieght off boards are mostly getting scraps. The problem loads nobody wants or from PIA shippers. I can count on one hand how many decent brokers I've dealt with. They were local to me though so I do believe that helps keep the relationship more honest than some stranger on the other end of the phone. Being close also makes it pretty easy for me to backdoor them if I decided to be morally bankrupt about it and they know it. I understand why some carriers don't go direct but in the grand scheme of things the risks are far better than giving a broker their hard earned money. The less that gets taken from that gross means the more that NET number rises.

On paper using a broker seems like good business. A personal transportation sales "team", surety bond backed payment usually on NET 30 terms and having a single point of contact are nice. Conversely, with direct work you have to put your sales slacks on, sell your services and sue them civilly if they don't pay. It's a gamble. However, it's a far better situation to be in versus getting ripped off by multiple middle men.

Replied on Fri, Jan 03, 2020 at 11:26 AM CST
Just to clarify, I'm not bashing the good people with my post. I have a few companies I choose to use instead of going direct. The little bit that they take is worth it for the convenience because they have a little better communication with the destination employees. Sometimes the direct shipper might not have a name and cellphone number for an employee at the unload point. And I've had direct shippers contact me to cut out the middle broker and offer less than the broker paid me. I was just thinking out loud. You good people get drug down as far as reputation goes, by the bad. And us carriers have to charge the good ones more to pick up the slack. I just think the transparency would benefit both parties
Replied on Fri, Jan 03, 2020 at 04:41 PM CST
+ 3
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "Randy simply wanted to know why brokers are offering such low rates. You filled in imaginary blanks after that full of assumptions. You're the one who made this into a carrier vs broker deal. I've been on multiple sides of this "game" too. You have a different point of view because you're obviously biased as a broker. I also believe you felt the need to post because you're the type that Randy is referring to. You took it personal because he struck a nerve. I could care less about your feelings on my "temper tantrums or accusations". Maybe if you brokers were to start doing the right thing we wouldn't be hearing so much negativity about you. Brokers have such bad reputations for a reason. It's not coincidence at all. The poster wasn't calling YOU out by name but yet you felt it appropriate to get on here and lambaste all carriers. Call it whatever you want but you're dilusional if you think I'm going to sit around and watch some broker blame it all on the carrier. When the carriers have been around from the start and got along just fine before you and they'll get along even better when you're gone. One thing, besides blatant theft that most of you have in common is ya'll blame the carrier and always claim to be "one of the good ones" who are the perfect angels who always seem to have the carrier's interest at heart. It's like you collectively went to some sort of, "How To Speak Like A Politician" training course. Yeah, well 100 percent transparency or you're lying. Show the carrier exactly what you're making off it. I'll bet my life 85 percent of you are taking a minimum of 25 percent off the top yet you claim to only be taking 10-15 percent. If we're in a down cycle and the rates drop then your percentage should too. Nevermind fuel surcharges and other accessorials ya'll are putting in your pockets. Shame on ya'll for such thievery. I've seen some very crudy shit on the boards and had to fend off many attempted thefts from my revenue on the spot market. If the shipper is paying an average fair rate of (for argument sake) $2/mile you're putting the carrier in a bad place after you take anything from that rate but you will anyway. You know it and I know it too. For the record, I do agree that some carriers are taking rates that pay too low. However, some carriers that made their rate off the "head haul" to pay the round trip so they'll pick up a "back haul" for anything because it's basically free money. I do not agree with this as it's hurts lane rates if they haul too low but it is what is. Of course, there's also guys that can run for $1.35/mile all year long and make it work. Again, it is what it is. It's a free market whether we agree or not. Happy New Year!"

I just need to put my 2 cents worth in. I have worked with Duane and can assure you that his rates are fair and that he and his company fight for the carrier. I do agree that there are MANY brokers that do not operate with the ethics that they should have! We see it out here every day where guys will chissel down to rock bottom so it is the carrier or dispatcher's job to try and get the extra dollar or 2 or 10 for his trucks that is needed to be profitable! I see both sides! I know how it feels to have someone offer loads with the cream taken off the top! All I can say is if you don't like the rate, don't haul the load and keep looking. Something always comes up!

Either way, we ALL need to make a living and with the government trying to cut our legs off, we don't need to try and cut each other's legs off! Leave the low rate loads sit and the rates will come up when they don't get hauled!

Just my 2 cents!

Keith
ET Trucking!
Replied on Fri, Jan 03, 2020 at 09:23 PM CST
Keith the ELD changed the world of trucking forever, and there is no going back, there will never be peace again in this industry, it will be a state of constant conflict between all parties involved. The rates being offered were inadequate prior to the mandate, now they are not just inadequate, but highly offensive to most drivers given the stress level induced by the mandate. There is a major disconnect between office personnel, and the drivers that are performing the work in the field. FMCSA is now studying violence in the workplace between drivers, and I can’t say I am surprised, drivers are sick of being treated this way.
Replied on Sat, Jan 04, 2020 at 02:33 PM CST
Originally Posted by: ED MCCONNELL
Quote: "I just need to put my 2 cents worth in. I have worked with Duane and can assure you that his rates are fair and that he and his company fight for the carrier. I do agree that there are MANY brokers that do not operate with the ethics that they should have! We see it out here every day where guys will chissel down to rock bottom so it is the carrier or dispatcher's job to try and get the extra dollar or 2 or 10 for his trucks that is needed to be profitable! I see both sides! I know how it feels to have someone offer loads with the cream taken off the top! All I can say is if you don't like the rate, don't haul the load and keep looking. Something always comes up! Either way, we ALL need to make a living and with the government trying to cut our legs off, we don't need to try and cut each other's legs off! Leave the low rate loads sit and the rates will come up when they don't get hauled! Just my 2 cents! Keith ET Trucking!"

Not sure why you felt the need to defend Duane to me personally and directly. I'm not shopping for a broker and hauled exactly ZERO broker loads in 2019. I will continue this trend into 2020 the best I can. You're certainly entitled to your opinion as am I so no offense taken here. I am genuinely curious though as to why you felt I needed description of Duane's services. It's almost as if you were paid to be an advertisement with your "testimony". If you're happy with him, or any other broker, then great. But don't complain when you find out how much you're leaving on the table later down the road, they're stealing your fuel surcharge or when rates drop so low you can't run because there's not enough "cream" for them to take but they do anyway.

Replied on Sat, Jan 04, 2020 at 02:34 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Bruce Why is it ok for the truckers to go broke, but not the shippers? The shippers always had the option to buy their own trucks, and operate their own fleet, so they were never victims of price fixing, it’s a false argument. Since the brokers commission is paid by the carriers, the carriers interests should come first, not the shippers. "

Dave, i was referring to a Shipper as in a company that produces the product to haul. I own a truck as well as dispatching for my dads Brokerage, where we have mostly independant Owner Ops. They have their own authority, as we dont do leases, therefore they can leave if they wish. So in my case, it's VERY important that the truck is making good money, or they'll go find someone else to haul for.... the issue i have is these guys that wanna come cry on the load board about needing better pay, maybe just be a better negotiator?? Or find something else to do.... I have a list of folks i won't haul for, because their idea of a fair rate and mine is worlds apart.
I know some of you just want to use this to vent a little, and i understand that, but sometimes it gets carried away, always blaming each other. The broker or direct customer only needs to pay what someone is willing to haul it for, and YOU are the one that decides if it goes in your wagon or not. Therefore the wonderful world of supply and demand. (YOU are the supply, and can avoid supplying the transportation for cheap freight, SIMPLE AS THAT)
Replied on Sat, Jan 04, 2020 at 02:34 PM CST
Originally Posted by: ED MCCONNELL
Quote: "I just need to put my 2 cents worth in. I have worked with Duane and can assure you that his rates are fair and that he and his company fight for the carrier. I do agree that there are MANY brokers that do not operate with the ethics that they should have! We see it out here every day where guys will chissel down to rock bottom so it is the carrier or dispatcher's job to try and get the extra dollar or 2 or 10 for his trucks that is needed to be profitable! I see both sides! I know how it feels to have someone offer loads with the cream taken off the top! All I can say is if you don't like the rate, don't haul the load and keep looking. Something always comes up! Either way, we ALL need to make a living and with the government trying to cut our legs off, we don't need to try and cut each other's legs off! Leave the low rate loads sit and the rates will come up when they don't get hauled! Just my 2 cents! Keith ET Trucking!"

SPOT ON Ed, very well said. Quit bitching, don't haul the load, and if they really need it hauled, the rate will need to rise.
Replied on Sat, Jan 04, 2020 at 09:26 PM CST
+ 1
Bruce, you're right, its basically just us venting. And I think to everyone that has said just dont haul it if it's too cheap, that's exactly right, no questions asked. But every discussion like this has someone telling the carriers, that they need to be better negotiators. That kinda gets me worked up, because transparency would allow inexperienced people to be better negotiators, rather than be taken advantage of. I think anybody from the shipper or brokers perspective would be a little frustrated with the negotiations if the carrier said, yes I'll haul that load for 2000 dollars, but you don't get to know how many tons I'll take. It's not apples to apples comparison, but I'm just saying.

Us carriers are hesitant to speak up publicly, because we know our good customers watch the forum too, and we don't want to damage a relationship. I'm admittedly still inexperienced, but this discussion is one side asking for transparency, and another side defending a lack of transparency....if a lack of financial transparency wasn't a big advantage in the rate negotiations, why would you defend it?

Anyhow, yes the inexperienced people need to learn the hard way, I've said before that the school of hard knocks is the best teacher, but I believe what makes capitalism successful is teaching the young and dumb, not preying on them. Not accusing anyone. I'm just saying the inexperience on the carrier side negatively affects everyone, we need some good teachers.
Replied on Sun, Jan 05, 2020 at 02:16 PM CST
+ 1 - 1
Hey dale, how about this for a comparison, we get rid of all banking laws and government oversight, including the FDIC, and folks can just “trust “ that there banker is being honest? Then we can get rid of the securities and exchange commission, after all why should stock brokers have transparency, lets let the market regulate stuff instead of government, after all if folks can JUST SAY NO to theses institutions if they don’t like the terms being offered. Lets put this doctrine to the test, and see how many people support it.
Replied on Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 07:30 AM CST
+ 2
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "YOU WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED AT HOW MANY LOADS I TURN DOWN IN A DAY BECAUSE THE RATE DOESN'T FIT WHAT MY DRIVERS NEED. MR KROUSE, YOU APPEAR TO BE ONE THAT IS VERY QUICK TO BLAME SOMEONE ELSE FOR YOUR PROBLEMS. IF A RATE DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU SAY NO AND WALK AWAY. BITCHING ABOUT IT DOESN'T SOLVE MANY PROBLEMS. IF TRUCKERS WOULD PUT THEIR FOOT DOWN AND SAY NO, RATES WOULD SOON RISE. HOWEVER FOR EVERY ONE THAT SAYS NO THERE WILL BE 10 OTHERS THAT WILL BEAT EACH OTHER UP OVER A CHEAP RATE. CATOOSA OKLAHOMA, AND INOLA OKLAHOMA ARE PRIME EXAMPLES OF THIS. RATES SUCK DOWN THERE ALL THE TIME BUT THERE ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE A TRUCKER THAT WILL HAUL IT. STOP SHOOTING YOURSELF IN THE FOOT "

Never works, you never get mega carriers to stop even if everyone stopped the rates would rise a nickel and then people going broke would start hauling again keeping rates steady and then defeating the hole purpose of boycotting low rates, simple fact is having drivers saying no to low rates is a fantasy, it'll never happen.

Replied on Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 09:02 AM CST

None of this happens without willing participants. Maybe reluctant, but still willing.

Replied on Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 11:05 AM CST
+ 1
Would a good businessman turn down a opportunity that would give him a advantage in the market, and increase profits? Two subjects have been brought up here, transparency and regulation, both have been opposed by truckers? A true capitalist is all about money, they will grab any advantage they can to increase profits.
Replied on Tue, Jan 07, 2020 at 07:44 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Would a good businessman turn down a opportunity that would give him a advantage in the market, and increase profits? Two subjects have been brought up here, transparency and regulation, both have been opposed by truckers? A true capitalist is all about money, they will grab any advantage they can to increase profits."

Uh...Hmm... I believe in capitalism. I don't like crony capitalism. I don't want socialism. I set my own prices. Negotiated and agreed to. I have been at this for nearly 25 years and I believe I have a pretty good handle on what the market is. Some of my customers I've had since I started. Most actually. 2.2% of my business in 2019 was with brokers. Nothing against them. Just never had much of a need. Ah!! A couple of the broker loads I carried unexpectedly filled some dead head miles nicely. Quite a wind fall. Was that fair to my customer? It was not a regular move for anyone involved. My customer was happy with the service they got for the price. Sometimes things don't line up right and I can have a big dead head. I believe in the law of averages. I discuss my rates with VERY few people. NEVER with the competition or potential competition. I don't need to know their rates. Frankly I hope they are higher. So no to transparency. Regulation, again, I don't want socialism.

Replied on Tue, Jan 07, 2020 at 07:51 AM CST
+ 1
Dean, you are confusing honesty with socialism. They are 2 different things.
Replied on Tue, Jan 07, 2020 at 01:04 PM CST
All these Trucking companies showing record profits While the big ones are filing bankruptcy and putting 300 to 4000 people out of work by shutting the fuel cards off and taking all those trucks off the road but the RATES don’t move a bit. It’s because no matter how much negotiating a Trucking company or a Broker does the Custumer ( that’s the one paying the freight ) they are in control some may go with the company with a higher per mile rate but you can bet that company is giving them a brake on fsc or detention or they’re spotting extra equipment or something that is helping the customer and not helping the driver or the owner operator leased to them. So when a guy with three trucks driving one himself and two drivers gets to know a shipper or receiver and thinks he’s going big time and going to haul direct he’s going in there to do the shit work that’s left over thinking that he can haul for a cheaper rate because he’s going to get twice as many loads but he will quickly find out that no matter how hard he try’s and how many laws he breaks to get the job done that he’s getting paid in 90 or more days instead of 7 to 30 days and his pockets aren’t deep enough so he goes and borrows more money to pay his drivers and get caught up then he goes right on business as usual until one day a he or one of his drivers gets into a situation ( load rejected or crash ) anything like that and the Customer says that he’s responsible for all cost and that they no longer need his services. So big or small they are out of business because the Customer is still hold his money that is only enough to pay drivers and bills to keep him afloat. ( The Customer is always in the drivers seat no matter how big or small the company is ) in my opinion a small company is better off hauling for a few Honest Respectable Brokerages where you can get your money in a timely manner and keep your equipment in shape and keep your CSA SMS clean so you can get insured by an A rated insurance company. A lot of times if not most of the time a Brokers rate is quite a bit higher than the dedicated carrier for the Customer. So if you’re record is good and equipment is good you can negotiate a very fair rate where everyone is making a little money. And if you can’t negotiate what it takes for you the truck then you just say I’m going to have to pass and go back to looking for another load. ( in 35 years I don’t think that I ever regretted passing on a load but I have regretted taking loads that I should have passed on so don’t jump the gun if someone else takes that load while you’re doing the math and thinking about it that’s okay most of the time you’re better off something better will come up. So don’t complain about the Broker or the Customer if you and your drivers can’t do their part ( Washouts are big now a days ) figure you’re time and miles into your rate. In fact I think that especially in the Grain and Commodities business that we need to do a lot more planning and Everyone should plan the rat around at least $100 per hour with a $1,000 per day minimum so if you’re doing short hauls and you get held up all day you’re going to get paid if it’s the fault of the shipper or receiver. It’s not hard to figure out how long a load is going to take from start to finish But that’s where the truck and driver would have to have his or her stuff together and be able to do what they agree to do. This would be a lot easier if the Government hadn’t given all the exemptions and every truck was running E logs but they figured that out way before we did so in the AG business we still have to many people out there just spinning their wheels because they are on paper logs or no logs ( I know all the arguments about the logs and I’m not saying that I like E logs but not enough of you had the will to shut down in December of 18 and you all thought that you were good to go because of the exemptions but in reality the government and the food manufacturers knew that if we were all on the E logs that the rates would soar, Once again the truckers cut their own throat ) THINK ABOUT IT!
Replied on Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 03:24 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "Not sure why you felt the need to defend Duane to me personally and directly. I'm not shopping for a broker and hauled exactly ZERO broker loads in 2019. I will continue this trend into 2020 the best I can. You're certainly entitled to your opinion as am I so no offense taken here. I am genuinely curious though as to why you felt I needed description of Duane's services. It's almost as if you were paid to be an advertisement with your "testimony". If you're happy with him, or any other broker, then great. But don't complain when you find out how much you're leaving on the table later down the road, they're stealing your fuel surcharge or when rates drop so low you can't run because there's not enough "cream" for them to take but they do anyway. "

I guess the only reason I replied with your quote is that there are MANY bottom feeding brokers out there who don't care about the carriers! When I see people making inferences that I know are not true about someone I have personally worked with in the past, I say something! It is called integrity. I will not bad mouth anyone unless I know personally that they deserve it! That is the way I work and will not change. I meant everything that I said and will stand behind what I have said. Duane has always been more than fair to deal with and it is my beleif that he should not be drug through the mud and lumped in with the fly by night brokers that have come along since the government decided to stick their noses farther up our asses.

As far as your post, you are entitled to your opinion. I have stated mine too and the people can read them and decide what they want. As for your business dealings, kudos to you for running a profitable business! It is not easy! I do want to say that what works for you may not work for the next guy and what works for the next guy may not work for me. So as far as my post with your quote, it was nothing personal, just making my point and your post was the one that struck me when I read the thread.
Replied on Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 04:28 PM CST
- 2

I know I'm on the tail end of this forum discussion but every one on here has valid points, just different point of views! Let me give MY two cents... As a new broker in the game, I can't lie and say the huge cuts we are taking are not apart of the problem. They are a problem for truckers and newcomers like us (truckers don't trust brokers easy because of price gouging) who are just trying to do good business in an industry that has plenty of good business! However it is true, if the truckers just say no, no matter what's stepped on, the rates will be higher.. BUT the only difference is, the owner operators and shoot, most of the carriers now, can't run a truck after everyone's cut! They can't even take care of themselves on the road, let alone their household at home.

We are a small brokerage based in the heart of the transportation world wondering why and how the trucking industry is "dying". The work is there! Projected to be there well into 2030. What we've concluded is that we just need to get back to traditional trucking with the help of modern technology. Today's broker's can operate without such a large piece of the pie by utilizing technology and simply going back to old school business and customer service. And honestly, we don't deserve such a large piece unless otherwise negioated. We don't do a large piece of the work. Our job is to keep you guys on the road, fully loaded and money in your pocket. If all you want to do is drive, that's all you should do and not worry about your bottomline.

We're set up with the least amount of overhead to be able to offer the best rates! We only take at the most - 15%! ESL is the new kid on the block, but best believe we WILL bring better rates back for the truckers. If y'all are working, that means we are too. If you're looking for honest, hard working brokers that WON'T take 30 and even 40 percent, shoot us your information and let's get to work! www.expresshippersandlogistics.com [email protected]

Replied on Thu, Jan 09, 2020 at 07:03 AM CST
Originally Posted by: CHRIS EVANS
Quote: "I book all my loads with brokers. I use 2 or 3 brokers for most of my loads. I have a late model tractor and a late model trailer (not new). I try to be responsible and professional with every load. I run whatever tracking app that's required. I communicate and check with my brokers on every load. I pick up on time and deliver on time and if something happens that's gonna make me late, I immediately contact my broker. I said all that to say this: The biggest problem in a broker's day, which they often share with me is the fires they have to put out every day with other drivers. They like me and like booking loads for me because they don't have to put out fires that I caused. Some of that cheap freight out there that brokers are booking with some carriers is part of the reason they have so many fires to put out. Irresponsible drivers and carriers that don't do their jobs, with pos equipment that's constantly breaking down. That's some of the consequence of booking cheap freight. Point being, like most things in this world, "you get what you pay for". Brokers have a say and can negotiate with shippers just as carriers can negotiate with brokers. Do the carriers and drivers have a responsibilty in this whole senario? Yes! Do the brokers have a responsibilty in this? Yes! If we can't work together to make a reasonable positive change to the freight rates, what will happen and already does happen is simple. Some smaller carriers are going straight to shippers and manufacturers and negotiating contracts directly with them. I know some who have already done this and done it quite successfully. If we all don't work together to make this freight market more consistently profitable for all of us, then as smaller carrier, we too may go that way. Something will change. Just look at all the carriers small and large that have have certain divisions of their companies and many who have closed their doors completely this year. Brokers can't let shippers dictate prices anymore than carriers can let brokers dictate prices to us. "

Well said Chris!

Replied on Thu, Jan 09, 2020 at 07:04 AM CST
Read a lot of the reply’s and have to say if that the trucking industry doesn’t need nice brokers we need honest men and women in the broker industry. Yes I can say no to a broker load and I do but your there representing so as a whole so do the job and say no to shippers whit cheap freight and post the price of the shipping cost on the freight bill. Be honest take your 10 percent but I’m willing to say that’s not happening
Replied on Thu, Jan 09, 2020 at 08:04 AM CST
Originally Posted by: ED MCCONNELL
Quote: "I guess the only reason I replied with your quote is that there are MANY bottom feeding brokers out there who don't care about the carriers! When I see people making inferences that I know are not true about someone I have personally worked with in the past, I say something! It is called integrity. I will not bad mouth anyone unless I know personally that they deserve it! That is the way I work and will not change. I meant everything that I said and will stand behind what I have said. Duane has always been more than fair to deal with and it is my beleif that he should not be drug through the mud and lumped in with the fly by night brokers that have come along since the government decided to stick their noses farther up our asses. As far as your post, you are entitled to your opinion. I have stated mine too and the people can read them and decide what they want. As for your business dealings, kudos to you for running a profitable business! It is not easy! I do want to say that what works for you may not work for the next guy and what works for the next guy may not work for me. So as far as my post with your quote, it was nothing personal, just making my point and your post was the one that struck me when I read the thread."

Understood. Thanks for the clarification.

Replied on Thu, Jan 09, 2020 at 12:47 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: RANDY SWOPES
Quote: "I can see a broker responding to my post and blaming the carriers. I expected no less, basically what you have is the broker is taking any where from 5 to 15 percent off the top maybe more and then spouting off they just won't pay anymore... smh you guys are what's wrong with trucking, your greed your double and triple brokering the same load... yes I can tell you straight up I don't haul cheap, I say no all the time to your cheap ass freight.... but you always seem to get it hauled by the guys who don't have the proper insurance, that truck hauling for hire on a farm tag... I thought you all did a better job vetting your carriers but seeing it happen every day it's all about moving that product and putting money in your pocket"

I apologize for butting in, but this is the exact reason I became a broker. As a driver, I always felt that we drivers carry the country literally on our backs and receive less than our true worth when it's time to earn our keep. I believe that as a broker and from the perspective of a broker, yet not losing sight of having been a driver, that we can change the market rates by compromising. Obviously, both sides are responsible for the rates bottoming out and it's going to take both sides to fix it. Just like any argument there will be a lot of finger pointing, but at the end of the day we all have a responsibility to move the product. I want to be part of the change we all want to see. With that, I think it's fair to make sure that negotiating a rate that satisfies the shipper, the broker AND the carrier is the scope of a broker's work, not greed. I will say that because I haven't brokered freight nearly as much as the next man, but at some point, we must adopt a mentality that can begin to bridge gaps between two entities that need to work together. I pledge to work with the carrier who is willing to work to raise the rates back to where they should be. It didn't happen overnight and it won't be fixed overnight, but we will get there. Some of us still believe all is not lost. Let's bring it in, we've been fighting long enough. We need solutions let's find them together.

Replied on Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 07:43 AM CST
+ 2

As previously mentioned, transparency is key. 100 percent full disclosure to ALL parties involved. Problem solved. Every one us know that will never happen though because it is of zero benefit to the broker.

Replied on Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 11:13 AM CST
+ 3
If you haul for a broker, you need to understand several things.
1. A broker has no factory to produce anything.
2. A broker does not own the product he wants you to haul.
3. A broker has no equipment to haul anything.

A broker simply has a cell phone with no other skin in the game. Unless a previous agreement is made, he will not pay you until if (and when) he gets paid.
His $10,000 total liability was probably reached long before you booked your load. Some people say they do great with brokers and more power to them, but you need to know what you are dealing with. In this day of the internet it's hard to imagine brokers even exist let alone thrive, but they do.
Replied on Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 01:00 PM CST
+ 2
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "As previously mentioned, transparency is key. 100 percent full disclosure to ALL parties involved. Problem solved. Every one us know that will never happen though because it is of zero benefit to the broker."

I don't give a damn what the broker gets as long as I'm satisfied with what I agreed to. If I weren't satisfied, I wouldn't have agreed to it!

Replied on Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 01:01 PM CST
+ 1
Its not the Brokers fault! Its the trucking companys that keep hauling the cheap stuff!
Replied on Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 07:58 AM CST
Really there are only two sides of the coin, either your part of the solution or your part of the problem, I would say knowingly leaving money out there on the table for ANY reason defines what side of the coin someone is on. It’s hard to imagine anyone going to there banker and making a statement like, My contract said I am owed 90% of what the shipper paid the broker, but I don’t care if the broker kept a extra 20% of it? Would your banker respect you for throwing money away?
Replied on Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 07:58 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DEAN HUGHSON
Quote: "I don't give a damn what the broker gets as long as I'm satisfied with what I agreed to. If I weren't satisfied, I wouldn't have agreed to it!"

Thanks for sharing some more of that Brokerspeak. You forgot to repeat some of the others like, "I take care of my carriers with the best rates" or "If it weren't for you guys the country would stop so we pay you ASAP" and my personal favorite, "I used to be a carrier, I understand your needs".

Replied on Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 12:13 PM CST
+ 7

10 years from now, this thread could be still going with the same arguements from both sides. I've worked as a owner- operator for 41 years. Almost exclusively in the end dump, tanker business. Here is the problem as I see it. Brokers do what brokers do. They do not cause truckers to go out of business. Truckers, cause truckers to go out of business. Here are a few points I've learned over the years...

1. Many owner- ops, should be hired drivers. They have no clue about business or how to survive. Many play around while their wife supports the family.

2. There are GOOD HONEST BROKERS, out there. Not a lot, maybe, but there are some. I've used maybe three, regularly in my career, and count them as friends.

3. Owner- ops, should stay out of debt, and if you are not a mechanic, just drive for someone else.

4. Point 3, above means you reject ANY load that does not pay! Sit in that lawn chair or take your kids fishing. Even if it means alot of time at home.

5.Do the job to the absolute best of your ability. Don't talk to ANYONE about your rates, or where you haul, or even what you haul. NO EXCEPTIONS!

6. Be reliable to those company's or brokers you work with...

7. Keep your equipment in top- notch condition, and appearance.

8. Keep yourself looking business like...

9. There is no such thing as a "back haul"!

I could go on, but to those who are hauling for less than $2.20/mile, and providing trac., trailer, driver, insurance, etc.... Your wife is providing your living.

And that is the truth.

Replied on Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 02:22 PM CST
+ 1
Steve, I believe your post is spot on, especially the part about sitting if it doesn't pay.

I'll always advocate for transparency, but yes, setting the tone for our career is our own responsibility. I just think the industry has a problem with how we handle newcomers on the carrier side. If the new people are like I was, they hauled cheap, just to get a foot in the door, and that's a bad business plan for themselves and that bad plan negatively affects every other carrier. It creates a revolving door of inexperience that keeps the rate low. If you see a post on here about someone new asking for advice, it hardly gets a view, and barely a response. Wouldn't it benefit everyone to educate them, the same way that you 40 plus year veterans were educated? Yeah you learned On your own, but none of you did it without help or advice .

I see the reason for Being Tight lipped on your rates and Customers and agree for the most part.


Replied on Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 08:42 AM CST
For the past 40 years everyone has been using that phrase “JUST SAY NO”, and ironically here they still are running on rates that are 40 years old, still operating on the same old playbook that granddaddy used, not doing anything new but still expecting stuff to change? The difference between then and now is today 46% of us don’t speak English and the government is suing companies because the drivers don’t make minimum wage, and in ten more years the brokers won’t speak English either.
Replied on Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 08:42 AM CST

The middle of the country has a lot bigger advantage than the northern part

when you haul in Nd and pull for ADM. Gavilon. CHS the rate is average 2.25

when you get to ex: minot and call for any loads out of minot or fargo the broker always says you are on your own and you are 250 miles from home. All the brokers seem to care about getting the one load hauled

Replied on Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 08:47 AM CST

It is really quite simple, offer fair rates that work for all parties involved.