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Here we go again

Apr 20, 2020 at 07:54 AM CST
+ 19 - 4
So I just saw an email from one of my contacts,stating they are cutting their rates by $2 ton for longer hauls and $1 for shorter hauls,due to the lower fuel prices.Things were maybe coming closer to balancing out,but leave it to corporate America to take advantage of a crisis.
Replied on Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:40 AM CST
+ 1 - 3
Their not cutting anything, their just keeping that much more for themselves
Replied on Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:41 AM CST
+ 1

Well that is greed at its finest.

I am tired of brokers acting like a whole class above the truckers. Hey look the truckers are saving money and actually getting more than breaking even, better take more money for myself. The same way people say it shouldn't matter how much the brokers makes, should be putting a stop to this. It doesn't matter what fuel prices are don't take advantage of the people moving your product.

Anyone know of any checks and balances systems that prevent brokers from taking all and paying bare minimum?

This morning I tried so hard to make a load work even considered changing my route to make it work. All I asked was hey can you let me know if you give it away before I get back to you in less than an hour? He says nah, I lll be honest if I find someone else I am not going to let you know. I have other things going on. Ok?

Ok so after you say that what makes you think Ill ever work with you? What makes you think you can treat people like that and they will work with you? Especially since you pay under $2 a mile because "you just dont have that much in it". Suck my butt Mr.

Another thing I have my truck on a run. Truck got delayed unloading and was going to be 30 minutes later than expected for a Friday load. I called 8am Friday as soon as we knew it would take longer. I asked what can I do to get him loaded, broker sends an email sorry I am in a meeting he can load monday at 7 or we can cancel? What. You want to cancel an entire 1000mile load over 30 minutes?? So I called the facility and she called the guy who owns the product. He asks which broker and the load number and calls another facility closer and sets it up for us to pick. After all this work my broker didn't do, he still gets paid. And he also took 2 a ton off from the already bare as rate I accepted last time I did this route.

Replied on Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:42 AM CST
+ 1

Eric, don't feel like the "Lone Stranger". I received a call from one of my shippers inquiring about the same thing. After we discussed the fact that insurance companies, and maintainance shops haven't dropped their prices during this time of reduced diesel prices; plus the fact that, more than likely, when manufacturing gets back to normal. oil companies will probably jack their rates up to $3.50 a gallon to make up for lost revenue, I won the argument, fortunately.

Replied on Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:02 AM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: TANYA COTE
Quote: "Well that is greed at its finest. I am tired of brokers acting like a whole class above the truckers. Hey look the truckers are saving money and actually getting more than breaking even, better take more money for myself. The same way people say it shouldn't matter how much the brokers makes, should be putting a stop to this. It doesn't matter what fuel prices are don't take advantage of the people moving your product. Anyone know of any checks and balances systems that prevent brokers from taking all and paying bare minimum? This morning I tried so hard to make a load work even considered changing my route to make it work. All I asked was hey can you let me know if you give it away before I get back to you in less than an hour? He says nah, I lll be honest if I find someone else I am not going to let you know. I have other things going on. Ok? Ok so after you say that what makes you think Ill ever work with you? What makes you think you can treat people like that and they will work with you? Especially since you pay under $2 a mile because "you just dont have that much in it". Suck my butt Mr. Another thing I have my truck on a run. Truck got delayed unloading and was going to be 30 minutes later than expected for a Friday load. I called 8am Friday as soon as we knew it would take longer. I asked what can I do to get him loaded, broker sends an email sorry I am in a meeting he can load monday at 7 or we can cancel? What. You want to cancel an entire 1000mile load over 30 minutes?? So I called the facility and she called the guy who owns the product. He asks which broker and the load number and calls another facility closer and sets it up for us to pick. After all this work my broker didn't do, he still gets paid. And he also took 2 a ton off from the already bare as rate I accepted last time I did this route. "

Even after he cut the rate I bet your still moved it for him like a slave. You are weak and they know it. No offense I don't mean that as an insult but it's all about power and negotiations here. I don't think you understand just how cutthroat and competitive the spot market is. If you don't move it someone else will. They know this. Also, the freight just isn't important enough to justify any precedence and there's an overflowing capacity of trucks. When you're hauling that type of freight all that matters is the bottom dollar. You're only a mule. Get used to it or get direct contracted customers. Also, FORCING someone to pay you what you want is extortion. This is the free market. Yes, they're greedy but you're in no position to change that and it's obvious. Put yourself into a position of power or get used to being the mule. You got two choices; what are you going to be? The hammer or the nail?!

Replied on Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:02 AM CST

...and there will still be losers lining up to move their cheap freight.

Replied on Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 01:44 PM CST
+ 1 - 1
Originally Posted by: David Krouse
Quote: "Even after he cut the rate I bet your still moved it for him like a slave. You are weak and they know it. No offense I don't mean that as an insult but it's all about power and negotiations here. I don't think you understand just how cutthroat and competitive the spot market is. If you don't move it someone else will. They know this. Also, the freight just isn't important enough to justify any precedence and there's an overflowing capacity of trucks. When you're hauling that type of freight all that matters is the bottom dollar. You're only a mule. Get used to it or get direct contracted customers. Also, FORCING someone to pay you what you want is extortion. This is the free market. Yes, they're greedy but you're in no position to change that and it's obvious. Put yourself into a position of power or get used to being the mule. You got two choices; what are you going to be? The hammer or the nail?!"

It’s not a free market though, it’s a rigged market because the cycle of inflation and deflation are being controlled by privately owned banks, AKA the FED. They set up the boom cycle that draws all of you into the market, and they flood it with supply, then they pull a switch and send everything in the other direction, and your as your wages go down do to over supply, your share of wealth is transferred to them.
Replied on Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 03:55 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "It’s not a free market though, it’s a rigged market because the cycle of inflation and deflation are being controlled by privately owned banks, AKA the FED. They set up the boom cycle that draws all of you into the market, and they flood it with supply, then they pull a switch and send everything in the other direction, and your as your wages go down do to over supply, your share of wealth is transferred to them. "

None of that has a damn thing to do with what the broker takes from the rate. Hence my "free market" comment.

Replied on Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 05:16 PM CST
Originally Posted by: David Krouse
Quote: "None of that has a damn thing to do with what the broker takes from the rate. Hence my "free market" comment. "

I never said it did, my point was the free market only exists in theory, it’s presented as a talking point by the other side to justify screwing you.
Replied on Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 05:44 PM CST
Larry the bigger question is will you haul the product for those cheap rates
Replied on Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 09:53 PM CST
+ 1
No I won't haul the stuff,any of you on here that know me,know where I stand.They can keep their cheap ass freight.However there will still be those who will trip over each other to haul it,and fyi it was not a broker it was a commodity trader.
Replied on Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 08:34 AM CST
+ 1

Exactly! Why are so many industries subsidized like Power, Farming, Automakers and banks? But there never seems to be any help for the true backbone of the country.

Replied on Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 10:12 AM CST

Park them for two weeks , there will still be somebody to take the loads . A man told me that there is no such thing as a back haul but someone wanting to get back home takes the cheapest load then it tumbles downhill. The broker or trader has the edge . A few weeks ago I set out side as plant in eastern Nebraska and made several calls all cheap ones , A man was saying his load was stupid cheap and told me unless you are going there to pick something up or live close don't take it because there's not enough money to make it work.if they are making money to get the load why on earth would you put their grain in your trailers. Cheap freight made him money because of no time or sweet equity.

Replied on Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 10:37 AM CST
Originally Posted by: BRYAN HUGEN
Quote: "Park them for two weeks , there will still be somebody to take the loads . A man told me that there is no such thing as a back haul but someone wanting to get back home takes the cheapest load then it tumbles downhill. The broker or trader has the edge . A few weeks ago I set out side as plant in eastern Nebraska and made several calls all cheap ones , A man was saying his load was stupid cheap and told me unless you are going there to pick something up or live close don't take it because there's not enough money to make it work.if they are making money to get the load why on earth would you put their grain in your trailers. Cheap freight made him money because of no time or sweet equity."

He was right! There is no such thing as a back haul! Every mile has to pay to make it work out. I actually hope that you know, there is a point in the freight rate when it is actually more cost effective to drive by a cheap load and bounce home. Yes you may pay your fuel with a cheap load, but you are taking time away from your securing a good paying load. We have parked some trucks and only doing our customer work and are bouncing past the cheap freight and just coming home. All be it, sometimes there is no freight to be had, but if it is that cheap, it truly is not worth hauling.
Replied on Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 12:07 PM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "It’s not a free market though, it’s a rigged market because the cycle of inflation and deflation are being controlled by privately owned banks, AKA the FED. They set up the boom cycle that draws all of you into the market, and they flood it with supply, then they pull a switch and send everything in the other direction, and your as your wages go down do to over supply, your share of wealth is transferred to them. "

The state of the dollar has nothing to do with how much a broker is taking off the top of a rate nor how much a carrier is willing to move a load for. You're mixing things together. Though inflation may be intertwined with the economy for obvious reasons it has nothing to do with how much someone takes off the rate. Even your own statement lends credance to my words. There ARE cycles in this industry from all concevable venues. I'm painifully aware of what fiat currency is and how it functions in out privately owned "federal" treasury. I've read of few of Ron Paul's books in the past. The ecomony is controlled but not each of our personal business decisions are and if someone is isn't smart enough to learn how to run a business than that's their own problem and THAT is the free market. The reason most sink is facing them in the mirror. As far as the Fed goes in itself...you are 100 percent correct...they are stealing from us every time they print out another dollar. If the walking dead in this country would put down the phone, TV and football long enough to learn the ugly truth we'd have all of Congress and CEOs tarred and feathered by now. Too bad that day will never come because these sheep will not wake up. The Founders are undoubtly rolling in their graves!

Replied on Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 02:24 PM CST
Originally Posted by: David Krouse
Quote: "The state of the dollar has nothing to do with how much a broker is taking off the top of a rate nor how much a carrier is willing to move a load for. You're mixing things together. Though inflation may be intertwined with the economy for obvious reasons it has nothing to do with how much someone takes off the rate. Even your own statement lends credance to my words. There ARE cycles in this industry from all concevable venues. I'm painifully aware of what fiat currency is and how it functions in out privately owned "federal" treasury. I've read of few of Ron Paul's books in the past. The ecomony is controlled but not each of our personal business decisions are and if someone is isn't smart enough to learn how to run a business than that's their own problem and THAT is the free market. The reason most sink is facing them in the mirror. As far as the Fed goes in itself...you are 100 percent correct...they are stealing from us every time they print out another dollar. If the walking dead in this country would put down the phone, TV and football long enough to learn the ugly truth we'd have all of Congress and CEOs tarred and feathered by now. Too bad that day will never come because these sheep will not wake up. The Founders are undoubtly rolling in their graves! "

Your ability to negotiate is determined by supply and demand, both of wich are being manipulated, your movements are confined to the boundaries created by Wall Street, the free market is a illusion, and it’s a talking point created by the other side, to justify screwing you. Example, right now everyone has trucks parked, rates are crap, but the Wall Street elite have the president suspending HOS, supply and demand are being artificially controlled.
Replied on Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 02:24 PM CST
+ 1 - 2
Move to a different country then and you will see how good you have it here
Replied on Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 03:52 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Your ability to negotiate is determined by supply and demand, both of wich are being manipulated, your movements are confined to the boundaries created by Wall Street, the free market is a illusion, and it’s a talking point created by the other side, to justify screwing you. Example, right now everyone has trucks parked, rates are crap, but the Wall Street elite have the president suspending HOS, supply and demand are being artificially controlled. "

Freight is getting moved by carriers willing to move it for less. That's the free market. If all the trucks were parked the shelves would be bare. Play word games all you like.

Replied on Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 09:18 PM CST
- 1
Well move and leave here. Bitching and complaining all the time isn't going to help
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 07:34 AM CST
- 1
Eric it sounds like you like being the nail
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 08:36 AM CST
+ 4
Listening to the same three guys complaining every day is really getting old
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 08:36 AM CST
+ 1

No. But obviously complaining doesn't work. It hasn't for as long as I have being doing this all it does is annoy other truckers. And customers. And it has changed nothing

Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 08:54 AM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: ERIC SCHETTL
Quote: "No. But obviously complaining doesn't work. It hasn't for as long as I have being doing this all it does is annoy other truckers. And customers. And it has changed nothing"

Seems like you're the only one annoyed. Should the world be silent so they don't hurt your feelings? Instead of torturing yourself; why not stop reading?

Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 09:38 AM CST

There's only two choices here...

Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 09:38 AM CST
Originally Posted by: ERIC SCHETTL
Quote: "No. But obviously complaining doesn't work. It hasn't for as long as I have being doing this all it does is annoy other truckers. And customers. And it has changed nothing"

Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 09:38 AM CST
Not hurting my feelings
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 09:38 AM CST
+ 1
Just very entertaining
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:26 AM CST
+ 1
Complaining works, last year several states made wage theft a felony, including Minnesota, this is a growing trend, so it’s just a matter of time until we see mandatory transparency and disclosure on a national level, and when that happens the playing field will level out, when everyone’s rates become similar enough, the shippers will base their decisions on quality of service, forcing true competition on to those who now depend solely on rate cutting to get work, at the drivers expense. And that’s what’s got many running scared.
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:42 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Complaining works, last year several states made wage theft a felony, including Minnesota, this is a growing trend, so it’s just a matter of time until we see mandatory transparency and disclosure on a national level, and when that happens the playing field will level out, when everyone’s rates become similar enough, the shippers will base their decisions on quality of service, forcing true competition on to those who now depend solely on rate cutting to get work, at the drivers expense. And that’s what’s got many running scared."

When do you think it will happen
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:42 AM CST
Originally Posted by: ERIC SCHETTL
Quote: "No. But obviously complaining doesn't work. It hasn't for as long as I have being doing this all it does is annoy other truckers. And customers. And it has changed nothing"

Eric do you run on a farm tag
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:46 AM CST
No
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:52 AM CST
Just read all these comments if one guy says the sky is blue the next says it is black will never all get together will never happen
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:53 AM CST
First life has never been fair. And truckers have never been able to work together nor farmers if it was not true. Farming would be very profitable and so would trucking and that will never change
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:55 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Complaining seems to be working for these guys https://cdllife.com/2020/houston-police-will-investigate-broker-wage-theft-claims-after-driver-protest/"

That's the $1/mile crew right there. 70 of them. Driving around pissing people off and making the industry look bad when they're a huge part of the problem itself all while begging for more government invervention. Socialist mentality of the weak. The most ironic part of it all is they already have recourse to fix their problems but they're so horrible at running a business they can't see the forest through the trees.

If they aren't getting paid for their work it's because they don't know how to invoice, get their terms agreed to in writing and/or know how surety bonds work. The only exception here is if they move INTRAstate freight because then there is no surety bond laws (on the Fed level) so they could get burnt there if they don't demand payment in advance. If not, they'd have to go through the civil system and/or hope for the best with collections from Baxter & Bailey or somewhere similar.

Also, demanding "just prices" and "fair rates" is a joke as well. They are the largest reason the rates in Texas are the way they are. They made their beds and now they get to lay in them. Honestly, I'm glad to see it. Now they'll finally understand that the rates are determined my THEM and only THEM. $700 to go from Houston to Odesa?! LET IT SIT!!! I bet they STILL haul it though. The most painful truth here is that the rates will never come back up to like they were in 2015 when the ELD mandate took effect. These losers are absolutely dilusional. They need to sell their trucks and get jobs. Try again in a few years when/IF things get back to a sense of normalcy after the damage they've caused.

I know most brokers take a large bite from the rate and they're collectively making $2/mile become the standard average across most of the entire country. It sucks but I don't think getting government involved is the answer. Haven't we learned anything since the 50's how well that works (or doesn't work)? If trucking isn't profitable then find another business that is. Maybe they should start brokering themselves or find some other way to make a living if the truck isn't cutting it. Right now wrenching on trucks, cleaning trucks and dispatching them makes more money. After, it's OVER capacity that's the real killer here in the end. Too many damn trucks!

Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:59 AM CST
Originally Posted by: Randy Swopes
Quote: "When do you think it will happen"

With in the next couple of years
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 12:16 PM CST
How many of you shippers out there, would say that cargo theft is a problem? How many of you would trust a thief who steals from others, to not steal from you? If a carrier or broker defends stealing from other people they do business with, should you trust them to not do the same to you?
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 01:01 PM CST
On no not me. But I don't bitch all day
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 01:01 PM CST
+ 1
My business is run very good. I just don't whine about how the world owes me.
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:40 PM CST
I should point out, that was not aimed at you Eric, I was speaking to the issue.
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:40 PM CST
Honesty and socialism are to entirely different subjects. Government holding people to the terms of the contract is not socialism, if you don’t want anyone looking at your books, stop paying on a percentage, pay hourly or by the mile, problem solved. If your truly running your company efficiently as you say, you should have no problem taking a hit when rates drop, stop expecting your drivers to bail you out, that’s socialism.
Replied on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 04:11 PM CST
+ 1

A Socialist can also be a slave that expects the goverment or dictator to force others to capitulate so they can benefit. Instead of looking in the mirror and making the neccesary changes and/or accepting personal responisbility for their failures they play victim and blame others. This is exactly what the Houston losers are doing. They come here, take jobs, ruin freight lanes in entire states, demolish average insurance rates and don't even have the common courtesy to learn OUR language. THEN they have the audacity to try to force people (at our expense as tax payers) to pay them for their inadequacies, ignorance and disrespect. These people are Socialists just like the rest of South America. Again, you can play word games all you want and twist it them all out of context but the truth remains. Every one of those losers need to give it up. I hope they all are under the water in a week. The faster the over capacity issue corrects itself the faster we can get back to "normal".

Replied on Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 11:42 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Complaining seems to be working for these guys https://cdllife.com/2020/houston-police-will-investigate-broker-wage-theft-claims-after-driver-protest/"

Fake, Houston police have no authority over such an issue!

Replied on Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:34 PM CST
Originally Posted by: RANDY ALLISON
Quote: "Fake, Houston police have no authority over such an issue! "

Replied on Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 01:57 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "https://constructioncitizen.com/blog/texas-legislature-passes-wage-theft-bill-sb1024/1106091"

Owner Operators are business owners NOT employees. They generate REVENUE not WAGES. The very first sentence spells out it very clear.

"On May 27th, Governor Rick Perry signed into law a groundbreaking measure that will expand the ability of local law enforcement agencies to arrest employers who cheat their workers out of their pay"

If the Houston losers are genuinely haveing issues getting their invoices paid than it's a CIVIL issue, not criminal. There's a large difference between the two. Like I said from the very beginning, these guys should get jobs as employees somewhere. They're not capable of running a business.

Replied on Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 02:05 PM CST
- 2
WHAT WE REALLY NEED ITS FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP TO ORDER THAT ALL TRUCKING COMPANIES GET PAID SAME RATES AND WE CAN AVOID HAVING THIS PROBLEMS AND DECENT RATE FOR EVERYONE TO MAKE A LIVING AND GET PAID FOR THE SACRIFICE OF BEING AWAY FROM HOME, NOW THAT WOULD BE A DREAM BUT NOTHING TO DISCUSS HERE IT IS, WHAT IT IS AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE THERE IS ALWAYS A PERSON THAT WILL HAUL ALMOST FOR FREE AND YOU CAN SEE THOSE TRUCKS ON THE ROADS WITH EQUIPMENT WITH 8 DIFFERENT TYPE OF TIRES AND TEAR HERE AND THERE IN THE TRUMP AND TRUCK RUNNING 55MPH ON A 80 MPH ZONE...
Replied on Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 02:31 PM CST
Originally Posted by: David Krouse
Quote: "Owner Operators are business owners NOT employees. They generate REVENUE not WAGES. The very first sentence spells out it very clear. "On May 27th, Governor Rick Perry signed into law a groundbreaking measure that will expand the ability of local law enforcement agencies to arrest employers who cheat their workers out of their pay" If the Houston losers are genuinely haveing issues getting their invoices paid than it's a CIVIL issue, not criminal. There's a large difference between the two. Like I said from the very beginning, these guys should get jobs as employees somewhere. They're not capable of running a business. "

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/independent-contractor-defined You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer

Does your carrier agrrement meet that criteria? If not, the law provides a loophole to investigate embezzelment, and thats a criminal matter, not civil.


Replied on Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 04:52 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/independent-contractor-defined You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer Does your carrier agrrement meet that criteria? If not, the law provides a loophole to investigate embezzelment, and thats a criminal matter, not civil. "

When it happens to a employee, it's wage theft, when it happens to a contractor it's embezzlement, HOWEVER both can be investigated, ( I believe that was the issue).
Replied on Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 04:52 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: JOSE MONTES
Quote: "WHAT WE REALLY NEED ITS FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP TO ORDER THAT ALL TRUCKING COMPANIES GET PAID SAME RATES AND WE CAN AVOID HAVING THIS PROBLEMS AND DECENT RATE FOR EVERYONE TO MAKE A LIVING AND GET PAID FOR THE SACRIFICE OF BEING AWAY FROM HOME, NOW THAT WOULD BE A DREAM BUT NOTHING TO DISCUSS HERE IT IS, WHAT IT IS AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE THERE IS ALWAYS A PERSON THAT WILL HAUL ALMOST FOR FREE AND YOU CAN SEE THOSE TRUCKS ON THE ROADS WITH EQUIPMENT WITH 8 DIFFERENT TYPE OF TIRES AND TEAR HERE AND THERE IN THE TRUMP AND TRUCK RUNNING 55MPH ON A 80 MPH ZONE..."

What??? Take us back to pre-deregulation days? How dare you even think of this? This is the age of truckers hauling for what shippers/manufacturers/brokers offer to pay to have their stuff shipped. No longer the age where truckers can set their own profitable rate to haul for customers. And the feds aren't about to do anything about it. They created this enviorment.

Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 07:04 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "When it happens to a employee, it's wage theft, when it happens to a contractor it's embezzlement, HOWEVER both can be investigated, ( I believe that was the issue)."

Again, you are reaching, sir. They may me greedy but it's all relative. In the end though, greed isn't against the law AND it's not embexellment. There is no employee/employer relationship here. It's business to business. I think you're confusing the two because these losers ACT like employees. A true business rolls with the punches or closes the doors unless they're big enough to pay Congress to pass laws that keep them profitable. Maybe if these losers learned some English they could pool together under a single umbrella company. Then, they can go get a brokerage MC and find a direct contacted customer with a rate they can all work with. Again though, they're no good at running a business and/or they can't because of their ignorance of the spoken/written language of of nation. Both of the aforementioned conditions can be corrected by those determined to do so. Sitting around expecting the government to run their lives is disgusting in every way.

https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/embezzlement.html

Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 07:04 AM CST
+ 2
Originally Posted by: JOSE MONTES
Quote: "WHAT WE REALLY NEED ITS FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP TO ORDER THAT ALL TRUCKING COMPANIES GET PAID SAME RATES AND WE CAN AVOID HAVING THIS PROBLEMS AND DECENT RATE FOR EVERYONE TO MAKE A LIVING AND GET PAID FOR THE SACRIFICE OF BEING AWAY FROM HOME, NOW THAT WOULD BE A DREAM BUT NOTHING TO DISCUSS HERE IT IS, WHAT IT IS AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE THERE IS ALWAYS A PERSON THAT WILL HAUL ALMOST FOR FREE AND YOU CAN SEE THOSE TRUCKS ON THE ROADS WITH EQUIPMENT WITH 8 DIFFERENT TYPE OF TIRES AND TEAR HERE AND THERE IN THE TRUMP AND TRUCK RUNNING 55MPH ON A 80 MPH ZONE..."

As Jerry mentions, what you're asking for USED to be the standard here in the States before Deregulation. Thing is, back then YOU would NEVER had gotten your authority at all. The railroads and unions pretty much had everything on lockdown that's how the rates were controlled. They also decided who moved what and where to.

Thanks for posting though because you've helped prove my point that South Americans are Socialists. You beg for the government to fight your battles. Pathetic. You have the FREEDOM to find other forms of employment here yet you throw that opportunity in the trash. You are NOT forced to run for peanuts and be away from your family. Go get a job and sell your equipment. So many jobs out there pay better and less hours. Do it for your family and stop crying!

Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 07:05 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/independent-contractor-defined You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer Does your carrier agrrement meet that criteria? If not, the law provides a loophole to investigate embezzelment, and thats a criminal matter, not civil. "

I have signed well over 100 BCAs and I've never seen anything that met that criteria. You are reaching, sir. The only "controlling" parts are due to the Feds such as making sure proper insurance coverage is held and adhering to HOS etc etc. If these losers want to be EMPLOYEES they should sell their raggedy trucks and go get real jobs.

Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 08:07 AM CST
Originally Posted by: Randy Swopes
Quote: "Eric do you run on a farm tag"

The farm tag is a big issue in Nd. Farmer hauls grain into the elevator. Elevator needs the business to stay in business. Farmer says he hauls grain in he will haul out. Shut down the commercial haulers. There are many farmers that pull into the elevator with a 25000 Pete with 20000 worth of decoration and polish on it. Farmers NEVER get inspected. Always just drive by. I bought a 2000 timpte at a farm auction paid 10000

brakes didn’t work. Would have been 4400 to replace all the brake.items So I called and found out cheaper to replace both axles 1250 each complete axle

Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 09:43 AM CST
Originally Posted by: David Krouse
Quote: "I have signed well over 100 BCAs and I've never seen anything that met that criteria. You are reaching, sir. The only "controlling" parts are due to the Feds such as making sure proper insurance coverage is held and adhering to HOS etc etc. If these losers want to be EMPLOYEES they should sell their raggedy trucks and go get real jobs. "

If the broker tells you to do anything, other than where to pick the load up, and where to deliver it to, he is controlling your business, and you are a employee by the governments definition. When you work for a direct shipper, you are not being controlled like you are through a broker, for example there is no do not complete clause, the shipper doesn’t tell you who you can, or cannot work for. The broker controls you like a employee, the shipper does not. I have several direct customers, and all they ever require is a W9, and a tax -I D number, along with a rate, most pay in 5 -14 days.
Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 09:54 AM CST
Originally Posted by: GREG BOMMELMAN
Quote: "The farm tag is a big issue in Nd. Farmer hauls grain into the elevator. Elevator needs the business to stay in business. Farmer says he hauls grain in he will haul out. Shut down the commercial haulers. There are many farmers that pull into the elevator with a 25000 Pete with 20000 worth of decoration and polish on it. Farmers NEVER get inspected. Always just drive by. I bought a 2000 timpte at a farm auction paid 10000 brakes didn’t work. Would have been 4400 to replace all the brake.items So I called and found out cheaper to replace both axles 1250 each complete axle "

Gregg, I'm usually on the same page with your posts. I agree 100 percent that its wrong to haul commercially on farm plates. Which nd farmers are doing this? I'm in nd every week. My truck says Hermans farm on the door. Pro rate plate number pr 35727. Interstate authority, ifta, irp progressive commercial insurance policy ect ect.

Maybe my point of view is ignorant. I haven't seen it and I tried back in 17 and it didn't work for me for many reasons. Why does nobody report it? I'd recommend everyone that sees it, take a picture of the truck, then the plate, text it to me, ill report them.605 467 0732.

Again, I think its wrong for them to do it, but I know if I bought a 10000 dollar trailer, I'd expect it to be shot.

Last question, why is it against fmcsa regulations for a farmer to haul more than 3500 dollars for hire and can't cross a state line more than 40 miles, but its legal for a trucker to be a hobby farmer? Like I said, I agree, I'm not a farmer any more, but why are we mad a a problem that is pretty tiny. If my phone blows up with pics, I'll know i was wrong, hey brokers and shippers, how many of you give loads to people without a commercial insurance policy?
Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 01:11 PM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Gregg, I'm usually on the same page with your posts. I agree 100 percent that its wrong to haul commercially on farm plates. Which nd farmers are doing this? I'm in nd every week. My truck says Hermans farm on the door. Pro rate plate number pr 35727. Interstate authority, ifta, irp progressive commercial insurance policy ect ect. Maybe my point of view is ignorant. I haven't seen it and I tried back in 17 and it didn't work for me for many reasons. Why does nobody report it? I'd recommend everyone that sees it, take a picture of the truck, then the plate, text it to me, ill report them.605 467 0732. Again, I think its wrong for them to do it, but I know if I bought a 10000 dollar trailer, I'd expect it to be shot. Last question, why is it against fmcsa regulations for a farmer to haul more than 3500 dollars for hire and can't cross a state line more than 40 miles, but its legal for a trucker to be a hobby farmer? Like I said, I agree, I'm not a farmer any more, but why are we mad a a problem that is pretty tiny. If my phone blows up with pics, I'll know i was wrong, hey brokers and shippers, how many of you give loads to people without a commercial insurance policy?"

Come to Colorado you will see all kinds of farm plates hauling for hire, they have been turned in but the state says what can we do..
Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 01:12 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Gregg, I'm usually on the same page with your posts. I agree 100 percent that its wrong to haul commercially on farm plates. Which nd farmers are doing this? I'm in nd every week. My truck says Hermans farm on the door. Pro rate plate number pr 35727. Interstate authority, ifta, irp progressive commercial insurance policy ect ect. Maybe my point of view is ignorant. I haven't seen it and I tried back in 17 and it didn't work for me for many reasons. Why does nobody report it? I'd recommend everyone that sees it, take a picture of the truck, then the plate, text it to me, ill report them.605 467 0732. Again, I think its wrong for them to do it, but I know if I bought a 10000 dollar trailer, I'd expect it to be shot. Last question, why is it against fmcsa regulations for a farmer to haul more than 3500 dollars for hire and can't cross a state line more than 40 miles, but its legal for a trucker to be a hobby farmer? Like I said, I agree, I'm not a farmer any more, but why are we mad a a problem that is pretty tiny. If my phone blows up with pics, I'll know i was wrong, hey brokers and shippers, how many of you give loads to people without a commercial insurance policy?"

A lot haul to minot mill coming out of powerslake Nd. Or plaza Nd or benidict nd

some out of max Nd. The farmers don’t need a medical or even a cdl. Let alone a dot inspection. Why do cdl license holders need a medical and regular non commercial do not. My cdl says eye glasses restricted for cdl only the signs look the same in the car

how many drivers on the road in non commercial vehicles are driving with medical conditions

Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 01:27 PM CST
- 1
Anytime these disscussions come up, we always hear different opinions, but in the end it always comes down to two different groups, one group defends stealing from truckers, the other group opposes it. Government has laws on the books that allow them to investigate theft, just becuase they choose not to does not give others the right to steal. If any owner operators suspect this is going on, give Paul Taylor a call at the truckers Justice center, 651 454 5800, he can help you, and wont charge for it, unless you collect, he recently represented several owner operators in my neck of the woods, and all of them won their case in court.

https://www.truckersjusticecenter.com
Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 02:20 PM CST
+ 1 - 1
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Anytime these disscussions come up, we always hear different opinions, but in the end it always comes down to two different groups, one group defends stealing from truckers, the other group opposes it. Government has laws on the books that allow them to investigate theft, just becuase they choose not to does not give others the right to steal. If any owner operators suspect this is going on, give Paul Taylor a call at the truckers Justice center, 651 454 5800, he can help you, and wont charge for it, unless you collect, he recently represented several owner operators in my neck of the woods, and all of them won their case in court. https://www.truckersjusticecenter.com"

Play devils advocate for a minute Dave. A farmer trucking with farm plates is stealing from truckers. But you having a garden and 2 pigs isn't stealing from farmers? I've said it before, its wrong, turn them in. If that doesn't work, turn them in somewhere else. Just my opinion.

Greg, you know the area better so I take your word for it, I'm in the areas you described 1 to 3 times a week. Benedict and powers lake and max,, so maybe my shiny pete is one of the ones you see, I assure you my rig is 100 percent commercial, but if you do see the Hermans farm logo on a pete, holler on the radio and I'll buy u a meal
Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 02:20 PM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Anytime these disscussions come up, we always hear different opinions, but in the end it always comes down to two different groups, one group defends stealing from truckers, the other group opposes it. Government has laws on the books that allow them to investigate theft, just becuase they choose not to does not give others the right to steal. If any owner operators suspect this is going on, give Paul Taylor a call at the truckers Justice center, 651 454 5800, he can help you, and wont charge for it, unless you collect, he recently represented several owner operators in my neck of the woods, and all of them won their case in court. https://www.truckersjusticecenter.com"

Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 02:41 PM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Play devils advocate for a minute Dave. A farmer trucking with farm plates is stealing from truckers. But you having a garden and 2 pigs isn't stealing from farmers? I've said it before, its wrong, turn them in. If that doesn't work, turn them in somewhere else. Just my opinion. Greg, you know the area better so I take your word for it, I'm in the areas you described 1 to 3 times a week. Benedict and powers lake and max,, so maybe my shiny pete is one of the ones you see, I assure you my rig is 100 percent commercial, but if you do see the Hermans farm logo on a pete, holler on the radio and I'll buy u a meal"

Dale I wasn’t responding to your topic before, I was addressing the issue of brokers and carriers not honoring their own contract, and stealing from the truckers. Moving forward to the topic of farmers hauling commercially though, all you would have to do is report them, and problem solved. As for the hobby farmer topic you mentioned, People producing their own food, are not stealing from anyone, they are providing for themselves, instead of depending on others. I don’t think that argument would hold up in court, UNLESS you had a patent on the genetics of said food.
Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 03:16 PM CST
- 1
If the issue was a double standard do to discrimination, all the farmer has to do is get authorities, wich he is free to do, so in reality no barriers or discrimination exist.
Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 03:25 PM CST
+ 1 - 1
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Play devils advocate for a minute Dave. A farmer trucking with farm plates is stealing from truckers. But you having a garden and 2 pigs isn't stealing from farmers? I've said it before, its wrong, turn them in. If that doesn't work, turn them in somewhere else. Just my opinion. Greg, you know the area better so I take your word for it, I'm in the areas you described 1 to 3 times a week. Benedict and powers lake and max,, so maybe my shiny pete is one of the ones you see, I assure you my rig is 100 percent commercial, but if you do see the Hermans farm logo on a pete, holler on the radio and I'll buy u a meal"

Not you Dave. These farmers are large grain farmers and have bulk sales. 2 kids that need to do something in the fall winter and early spring

Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 04:44 PM CST
+ 1 - 1
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Dale I wasn’t responding to your topic before, I was addressing the issue of brokers and carriers not honoring their own contract, and stealing from the truckers. Moving forward to the topic of farmers hauling commercially though, all you would have to do is report them, and problem solved. As for the hobby farmer topic you mentioned, People producing their own food, are not stealing from anyone, they are providing for themselves, instead of depending on others. I don’t think that argument would hold up in court, UNLESS you had a patent on the genetics of said food. "

I misunderstood Dave. I see your point now after you clarified.
Replied on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 04:56 PM CST
+ 1 - 1
Originally Posted by: David Krouse
Quote: "As Jerry mentions, what you're asking for USED to be the standard here in the States before Deregulation. Thing is, back then YOU would NEVER had gotten your authority at all. The railroads and unions pretty much had everything on lockdown that's how the rates were controlled. They also decided who moved what and where to. Thanks for posting though because you've helped prove my point that South Americans are Socialists. You beg for the government to fight your battles. Pathetic. You have the FREEDOM to find other forms of employment here yet you throw that opportunity in the trash. You are NOT forced to run for peanuts and be away from your family. Go get a job and sell your equipment. So many jobs out there pay better and less hours. Do it for your family and stop crying!"

Actually, David, I had no problem with obtaining my original authority, prior to de-regulation. Of course, I was hauling perishables and exempt (produce) freight. And back in the day, manufacturers of dry foods weren't as particular about putting dry goods (grocery) on refers as they are today. Plus, there were very few refer companies back then compared to today. I used to occasionally trip lease with an outfit that had refers with rails and hooks for hauling swinging beef. Glad things have changed to hauling cases of meat I've never owned a trailer with rails.

Replied on Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 10:50 AM CST
Originally Posted by: JERRY ASHLEY
Quote: "Actually, David, I had no problem with obtaining my original authority, prior to de-regulation. Of course, I was hauling perishables and exempt (produce) freight. And back in the day, manufacturers of dry foods weren't as particular about putting dry goods (grocery) on refers as they are today. Plus, there were very few refer companies back then compared to today. I used to occasionally trip lease with an outfit that had refers with rails and hooks for hauling swinging beef. Glad things have changed to hauling cases of meat I've never owned a trailer with rails."

Jerry Mr.krouse is absolutely right about over capacity being a big problem, if not the main problem, but as long as the other side is allowed to exploit new people entering the industry, we will always be forced to complete against that, it won’t stop. You could send all the immigrants back to where they came from, and the other side will continue to keep finding replacements, and maintain the revolving door, just like they always have. So in my mind the most logical strategy is to drive the cost of labor up for the other side, by educating all these new drivers, there by depriving the other side of their cheap labor, that is continually used against the rest of us.
Replied on Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 10:50 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "If the broker tells you to do anything, other than where to pick the load up, and where to deliver it to, he is controlling your business, and you are a employee by the governments definition. When you work for a direct shipper, you are not being controlled like you are through a broker, for example there is no do not complete clause, the shipper doesn’t tell you who you can, or cannot work for. The broker controls you like a employee, the shipper does not. I have several direct customers, and all they ever require is a W9, and a tax -I D number, along with a rate, most pay in 5 -14 days. "

And neither is the carrier. The carrier only does what the customer (broker) needs within reason. Anything over that is a billable service. I tell restaurants exactly what I want and how to do it; does that make them my employees?

Replied on Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 10:50 AM CST
Originally Posted by: JERRY ASHLEY
Quote: "Actually, David, I had no problem with obtaining my original authority, prior to de-regulation. Of course, I was hauling perishables and exempt (produce) freight. And back in the day, manufacturers of dry foods weren't as particular about putting dry goods (grocery) on refers as they are today. Plus, there were very few refer companies back then compared to today. I used to occasionally trip lease with an outfit that had refers with rails and hooks for hauling swinging beef. Glad things have changed to hauling cases of meat I've never owned a trailer with rails."

Your case was not the norm though, Jerry. These guys would be trip leasing if they got lucky and connected enough to get the opportunity to run for a bigger carrier. What we have today is every Ivan, Hector and Habib getting his numbers with no customers. Then they go around whining and crying about low rates while simulataneously stabbing each other in the back over scraps. They've all simply bought themselves jobs. If they want real rates they need to get their own customers. Again though, they're only a single truck show and frankly one solitary truck outfits are nearly worthless so the rates won't fantastic. They bought themselves extremely low paying jobs with long hours and a tremendous amount of responsibility. Pretty damn stupid to stay in the position unless you're a masochist. There's so many ways to fix it on their own but instead they want to point their fingers at everyone else. I have zero pity for such stupidity.

Replied on Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 11:27 PM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: David Krouse
Quote: "Your case was not the norm though, Jerry. These guys would be trip leasing if they got lucky and connected enough to get the opportunity to run for a bigger carrier. What we have today is every Ivan, Hector and Habib getting his numbers with no customers. Then they go around whining and crying about low rates while simulataneously stabbing each other in the back over scraps. They've all simply bought themselves jobs. If they want real rates they need to get their own customers. Again though, they're only a single truck show and frankly one solitary truck outfits are nearly worthless so the rates won't fantastic. They bought themselves extremely low paying jobs with long hours and a tremendous amount of responsibility. Pretty damn stupid to stay in the position unless you're a masochist. There's so many ways to fix it on their own but instead they want to point their fingers at everyone else. I have zero pity for such stupidity. "

Precisely, David. Which is why you and I, and others, have tried to stress the point of dealing direct with shippers/manufacturers. Load boards may be good for return loads, at times (I hate the term back hauls), but nothing to build a profitable business on.

Things have now gotten a bit slow for us. I know with restaurants and schools closed, moving a lot of perishables has been cut back. Just my luck, since the new trailer is waiting at Utility and the new Star is due in on Wednesday. Sheesh! Timing is terrible. However, my guys want to continue running together, even though delays are inevitable. During our meeting yesterday morning it was decided to just alternate the rigs for a while until things pick up. Hope things on your end are doing well.

Replied on Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 11:28 PM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: David Krouse
Quote: "And neither is the carrier. The carrier only does what the customer (broker) needs within reason. Anything over that is a billable service. I tell restaurants exactly what I want and how to do it; does that make them my employees? "

Those folks in the restaurant you mention, don’t work for you, you are a guest in the establishment, they simply serve you, your name is not on their paycheck, their employers is. You have no control over them, you don’t tell them what type of insurance to have, or what kind of tools they must furnish to their job, or who they can and cannot work for. You have no control over them.
Replied on Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 11:29 PM CST
Doing the same up in Texas panhandle telling me it’s because of the way the markets & trading is running now
Replied on Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 11:30 PM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Jerry Mr.krouse is absolutely right about over capacity being a big problem, if not the main problem, but as long as the other side is allowed to exploit new people entering the industry, we will always be forced to complete against that, it won’t stop. You could send all the immigrants back to where they came from, and the other side will continue to keep finding replacements, and maintain the revolving door, just like they always have. So in my mind the most logical strategy is to drive the cost of labor up for the other side, by educating all these new drivers, there by depriving the other side of their cheap labor, that is continually used against the rest of us. "

Agreed. Education is a major goal that should be instituted. Next, combine that with something like Jerry has been mentioning...a co-op. Gather together a group of single truck carriers in each of their respective geograohical areas. I believe the rest would fall into place in short order once shippers needs can be handled with a now much larger pool of trucks. However, none of this will ever happen until the capacity issue rights itself via attrition or natural selection.

Replied on Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 08:14 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: JERRY ASHLEY
Quote: "Precisely, David. Which is why you and I, and others, have tried to stress the point of dealing direct with shippers/manufacturers. Load boards may be good for return loads, at times (I hate the term back hauls), but nothing to build a profitable business on. Things have now gotten a bit slow for us. I know with restaurants and schools closed, moving a lot of perishables has been cut back. Just my luck, since the new trailer is waiting at Utility and the new Star is due in on Wednesday. Sheesh! Timing is terrible. However, my guys want to continue running together, even though delays are inevitable. During our meeting yesterday morning it was decided to just alternate the rigs for a while until things pick up. Hope things on your end are doing well."

Frankly, I'm glad this day is here. It's several months late but better than never I guess. The rates were bound to fall eventually. The plandemic just made it happen a little harder/faster than usual. What goes up, must come down. This is the time of attrition. Let the bottom feeding lane rate destroying drivers sink. Sounds like you have a solid plan going. Yes, I hate the term, "backhaul" too and never use it. A load is a load, period. I pulled a couple cheap grain loads because they were close to the yard so I could work out the kinks on my new (to me) end dump and it's been parked since. Flatbed rates are in the toilet on the spot market (as expected for this time of year) so I'm keeping everything parked for another month or so while I shop for a house and relocate to another state. In between those tasks I'm working getting sales leads together for the new location.

Replied on Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 08:14 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Those folks in the restaurant you mention, don’t work for you, you are a guest in the establishment, they simply serve you, your name is not on their paycheck, their employers is. You have no control over them, you don’t tell them what type of insurance to have, or what kind of tools they must furnish to their job, or who they can and cannot work for. You have no control over them."

I'm sorry, Dave. I cannot continue on with this conversation. Your incessant need to push your agenda without even reading what I'm writing is just too much for me. Let's just agree to disagree, sir.

Replied on Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 07:45 AM CST
Originally Posted by: David Krouse
Quote: "I'm sorry, Dave. I cannot continue on with this conversation. Your incessant need to push your agenda without even reading what I'm writing is just too much for me. Let's just agree to disagree, sir."

That’s probably the best way to end it, because really it comes down to interpretation, everyone’s will be different, that’s why I posted the link so folks could see what the government says on the matter, and decide for themselves. Often times a law can be on the books for years, and because the government chooses not to enforce it, folks assume they can ignore it without consequences. Another good example would be deleted emissions, it’s been a federal crime since the 70’s, but they never enforced it, then a couple of years ago the government started going after everyone, no more PDI, Pittsburgh power, bullydog, glider kits, etc.
Replied on Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 08:36 AM CST

I understand where you're coming from. I've been looking across the line to Indiana, where taxes are much better than Illinois. And I can build an actual "terminal" at a much lower rate. Right now Rob's been sitting on the rig. Or, he can park it at his dads place, 8 miles west of me. My actual office is in my home, at this time. I'm not one to make big leaps until I'm ready.

Good luck with your move.
Replied on Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 09:15 AM CST
Originally Posted by: Randy Swopes
Quote: "Come to Colorado you will see all kinds of farm plates hauling for hire, they have been turned in but the state says what can we do.."

You know what would be really funny, make a video of someone reporting that to the authorities and post it on YouTube, then sit back and watch the fireworks.
Replied on Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:52 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "That’s probably the best way to end it, because really it comes down to interpretation, everyone’s will be different, that’s why I posted the link so folks could see what the government says on the matter, and decide for themselves. Often times a law can be on the books for years, and because the government chooses not to enforce it, folks assume they can ignore it without consequences. Another good example would be deleted emissions, it’s been a federal crime since the 70’s, but they never enforced it, then a couple of years ago the government started going after everyone, no more PDI, Pittsburgh power, bullydog, glider kits, etc. "

Absolutely. The Feds are even fining forums for discussing removal of said systems. Tell me that isn't crazy?! Our rights getting widdled away slowly but surely.

Replied on Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:52 PM CST
Originally Posted by: JERRY ASHLEY
Quote: "I understand where you're coming from. I've been looking across the line to Indiana, where taxes are much better than Illinois. And I can build an actual "terminal" at a much lower rate. Right now Rob's been sitting on the rig. Or, he can park it at his dads place, 8 miles west of me. My actual office is in my home, at this time. I'm not one to make big leaps until I'm ready. Good luck with your move."

Thank you, sir. Yes, moving from a state that's NOT business friendly at all to one that encourages postive business growth is a wise move for any operation. I'm going to do the LLC as well so I can detatch my home address from my numbers too. Too many psychos out there!