Home > Forum > WASHOUTS AND PREVIOUS LOADS

WASHOUTS AND PREVIOUS LOADS

Apr 12, 2017 at 10:49 AM CST
+ 8

this has been burning at me for sometime and i need to get if off my chest. we are hauling a load today for a pet food company. driver unloaded DDG before hand and gets to place to load and they say they cant load him even with a washout ticket. they told me i need to haul another load inbetween the 2 loads and then go get a washout and you will be ok. 2 things here. first off this company is pretty much admitting that washouts dont clean your trailer so why are they even requiring it in the first place? because if a washout cleaned your trailer then why do we have to go haul a different type of product first then go washout? i dont know about you guys but when i need to get clean i take a hot soapy shower and it seams to do the trick everytime. i dont go jump around in a trailer full of wheat midds thinking that this is gonna get me clean. dont get me wrong im all about feed and food safety but things are really getting out of control. i would love feed back from all of you on this situation and maybe we can get some changes made. if all companys had these regulations then none of will be hauling anything because none of our trailers would be clean enough to haul anything even with a washout. not to mention the added expense it puts on us trucking companies. thanks for reading

Replied on Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 01:14 PM CST
+ 8 - 1
Just out of curiosity, can anyone tell me how rail cars are cleaned and washed out between loads? I haven't seen very many rail car washes around.
Replied on Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 01:36 PM CST
I seen the local Fire department cold wash rail cars many years ago but i havent seen that happen in about 15 years , but I not sure how the Shipper of Feed or food stuff can get clean cars , and get BOL on what the rail car hauled in the last Three load like they ask the truck to have .
I think we should ask the shipper and the Food and Feed plants if they ask the rail road to have all the paper we need to show or do before we load or dump, or what safey guards the rail road or shipper have on product they haul to those plants
Replied on Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 07:20 AM CST
+ 1
I want to know what constitutes a "Certified Washout" and who regulates that? I have a wash bay, but am afraid to wash my own trailers out and try to present them as "clean". I could go get "Certified", but have not really found a way to do that. Even if I knew how, I'm not sure I would want the liablitiy. Say that the customer determines (especially a dog food customer) that my load killed a bunch of dogs, but I had a certified washout, is the washout facility now liable because they didn't do a good job? Do wash out facilities understand what they are giving out to our drivers when they pass us that ever so important receipt? I too am all for Safe Food/Safe Feed, but once again, it's a regulation that was written and enacted with no thought on how it really effects our industry. We are supposed to just figure it out on our dime.
Replied on Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 08:45 AM CST
a certified wash computor generated ticket
Replied on Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 10:13 AM CST
i have a good one today i am loading meat meal into a cust and reloading out of the same place and i have to go wash before i reload at the same place and the washout is 60 miles away
Replied on Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 07:51 PM CST
Originally Posted by: RYAN DUFFY
Quote: "I want to know what constitutes a "Certified Washout" and who regulates that? I have a wash bay, but am afraid to wash my own trailers out and try to present them as "clean". I could go get "Certified", but have not really found a way to do that. Even if I knew how, I'm not sure I would want the liablitiy. Say that the customer determines (especially a dog food customer) that my load killed a bunch of dogs, but I had a certified washout, is the washout facility now liable because they didn't do a good job? Do wash out facilities understand what they are giving out to our drivers when they pass us that ever so important receipt? I too am all for Safe Food/Safe Feed, but once again, it's a regulation that was written and enacted with no thought on how it really effects our industry. We are supposed to just figure it out on our dime. "

I PULL TANKERS FOOD GRADE AND I GET WASHED BY A MACHINE WASHER THAT FITS ABOVE ON THE MAN HOLE AND SHOOTS OUT HOT WATER SOAP AND BLEACH KIND OF LIKE A LAWN SPRINKLER. IS THIS HOW HOPPERS ARE WASHED OR IS JUST DONE MANUALLY LIKE A LIVESTOCK WASHOUT. MOST ANIMAL FEEDS THAT I HAULED IN TANKER LIKE MOASSES LARD, CORN MASH, WE WERE ALLOWED TO JUST WASH OUT MANUALLY AT A LIVESTOCK WASH OR ANY TRUCK WASH. HUMAN TANKER FOOD GOES IN SEPARATE TRAILERS AND HAS TO KOSHER MACHINE WASHED AND A RABI HAS TO BLESS IT AND INSPECT THE WASH BAY SO MANY TIMES A YEAR. I WOULD CALL THE FDA ON THESE PEOPLE AND SEE IF THEY REALLY KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON AT THESE PLACES OR IF ALL THIS STUFF IS REALLY REQUIRED OR JUST BOGUS. IF THEY ARE SO CONCERNED ABOUT IT THE PEOPLE LOADING THE PRODUCT SHOULD CLEAN THE TRAILERS ON THEIR PROPERTY THEMSELVES. THAT WAY THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR SHIPPING OUT A CLEAN LOAD IS ON THEM! THIS IS HOW MOST OF DAIRIES AND SUGAR PLANTS OPERATE..
Replied on Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 10:34 AM CST
Originally Posted by: CHRISTOPHER STIER
Quote: "I PULL TANKERS FOOD GRADE AND I GET WASHED BY A MACHINE WASHER THAT FITS ABOVE ON THE MAN HOLE AND SHOOTS OUT HOT WATER SOAP AND BLEACH KIND OF LIKE A LAWN SPRINKLER. IS THIS HOW HOPPERS ARE WASHED OR IS JUST DONE MANUALLY LIKE A LIVESTOCK WASHOUT. MOST ANIMAL FEEDS THAT I HAULED IN TANKER LIKE MOASSES LARD, CORN MASH, WE WERE ALLOWED TO JUST WASH OUT MANUALLY AT A LIVESTOCK WASH OR ANY TRUCK WASH. HUMAN TANKER FOOD GOES IN SEPARATE TRAILERS AND HAS TO KOSHER MACHINE WASHED AND A RABI HAS TO BLESS IT AND INSPECT THE WASH BAY SO MANY TIMES A YEAR. I WOULD CALL THE FDA ON THESE PEOPLE AND SEE IF THEY REALLY KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON AT THESE PLACES OR IF ALL THIS STUFF IS REALLY REQUIRED OR JUST BOGUS. IF THEY ARE SO CONCERNED ABOUT IT THE PEOPLE LOADING THE PRODUCT SHOULD CLEAN THE TRAILERS ON THEIR PROPERTY THEMSELVES. THAT WAY THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR SHIPPING OUT A CLEAN LOAD IS ON THEM! THIS IS HOW MOST OF DAIRIES AND SUGAR PLANTS OPERATE.."

good thread. i dont know if these washout facilities realize what kind of liabilty they are really risking buy washing out hoppers. one would assume if a buch of dogs or cats died and the carrier had a "certified" wash out then the liability goes to the washout facility for now getting the trailer clean enough????
Replied on Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 10:53 AM CST
but the best part is if you go some where that is making food for us your good without a wash but don't go to a dog food place without one (i like dogs and cats so don't call peta on me )
Replied on Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 11:04 AM CST
- 1
I have to disagree with you on part of your comment. We haul a lot of organic and human consumption product in our hoppers. The places we go to are incredably particular about prior load and a washout reciept. The requirements they put on the washouts are almost stifling after these new rules came into effect. It is almost to the point where you need to trade for a new trailer between every load, but then you can't verify the prior load. Some of these places are even asking for proof of 3-5 loads prior. I think that is getting a little ridiculous. As I have repeatedly asked before, how do they verify the cleanliness of a rail car? We used to get some really strange products coming to us in rail cars that we would have to figure out what to do with before we could reload them. My employees used to have a fairly good side business going of cleaning out the cars if they had grain in them. You would be surprised at how many bushel those cars would have in them and how much income you could generate if you have no imput cost on the grain.

Replied on Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 01:04 PM CST
I ve seen on the back of wash receits saying that regardless of wash ticket THE DRIVER IS RESPONCABLE for the trailer being clean
Replied on Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 10:46 AM CST
Originally Posted by: RYAN DUFFY
Quote: "I want to know what constitutes a "Certified Washout" and who regulates that? I have a wash bay, but am afraid to wash my own trailers out and try to present them as "clean". I could go get "Certified", but have not really found a way to do that. Even if I knew how, I'm not sure I would want the liablitiy. Say that the customer determines (especially a dog food customer) that my load killed a bunch of dogs, but I had a certified washout, is the washout facility now liable because they didn't do a good job? Do wash out facilities understand what they are giving out to our drivers when they pass us that ever so important receipt? I too am all for Safe Food/Safe Feed, but once again, it's a regulation that was written and enacted with no thought on how it really effects our industry. We are supposed to just figure it out on our dime. "

We also have our own wash bay--a lot nicer than most of our area washouts--but many customers want a receipt from a "certified" washout. What is this? Where are these wash outs? And how does a washout become "certified?"
Replied on Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 03:20 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: BRANDON DIEDRICH
Quote: "We also have our own wash bay--a lot nicer than most of our area washouts--but many customers want a receipt from a "certified" washout. What is this? Where are these wash outs? And how does a washout become "certified?""

A "certified" wash out is one who has filed with the city/state/county or whomever the local governing authority is that the owner certifies they will not knowingly washout any hazardous materials on the same site as tankers, hoppers, ect. Additionally they will keep records of anyone who does wash out on that site (when/where/who) in case contamination is reported so they can trace back and notify people.

I don't know a lot of shops or open cattle washes that do that and a guy with a garden hose probably doesn't either. I can understand where it would be a pretty important thing if you are loading food grade products and people or animals start getting sick or dropping dead.

As far as those companies that want additional loads in between fertilizer and their product, that's a receiver/destination contract stipulation that the product they get goes above and beyond the basic FSMA rules. They are removing themselves as far from any possible source of contamination/allergen as they can so if they get sued it it is definately not their fault.


Replied on Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 01:18 AM CST
+ 2
Mel,
I would agree with most of the information you provided but i would disagree with your interpetation of what " Certified " actually means. If only as to the point the there is no government agency providing said certification which means the "Certification" is done by the customer whom ships/recieves the load. Generically around here the standard custom is a reciept from a washout facility. To be honest i have never even heard about any of my customers visiting a facility and approving them for washouts. Which to be honest would seem like the logical thing to do. However like many things logic takes a back seat to bureacracy.
After having numorous conversations lately regarding the new FSMA regarding carrier compliance I am satisfied it is merely a formalization of what most reputable carriers have been doing for years with a few exceptions. Copy and paste the link below for information; it may be a relief to many of you O/O that there is an exemption for carriers doing less than 500k per year. Which of course will mean nothing to that Billion dollar corporation that will require your compliance shorty regarless,

https://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/FSMA/default.htm

Replied on Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 09:33 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "Just out of curiosity, can anyone tell me how rail cars are cleaned and washed out between loads? I haven't seen very many rail car washes around."

Duane there are several rail car washes. PSC, Rescar, USA Tank are a few
Replied on Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 08:27 AM CST
Then I remember the time we loaded with Urea for a trip and when we got to destination the outlet asked us for our wash out ticket. We said why would we need that for urea since that is all we have been hauling lately..... He says, because this is food grade urea......... we say, it was loaded out of the same chute we load all the urea out of......He says, the difference between the two is that for feed grade your trailer was washed out. I said..........well you don't want to know what I said.......but I was pissed. Somehow we had missed the fact that this was a feed grade load. So now what......I ended up having to call around to places I know to get rid of the load as fertilizer grade urea. Broker blamed us we blamed him and he deducted $500 dollars from our money........ We hate washout loads.......
Replied on Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 09:25 AM CST
Originally Posted by: JERRY BECK
Quote: "Duane there are several rail car washes. PSC, Rescar, USA Tank are a few"

Just curious on that. With the railcars that used to come to my elevator, we never saw one that was washed out or even cleaned out. If one of my trucks were to come in to a facility as dirty as those rail cars, the truck would be rejected very quickly. We rejected rail cars as well, but the railroad always told us that if the car wasn't clean enough for us it was up to the shipper to get it clean enough.
Replied on Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 10:53 AM CST
Can anybody answer this simple question? how does hauling a load inbetween loads before you washout clean your trailer anybetter then just going to get washout in the first place? i swear people think that all products are the same weight density etc and the other product will help sweep out the trailer if there is any carryover of previous load. what they dont realize is that if i haul a load of wheat midds (which would fill my trailer up to the brim) then go haul a load of calcium that half of the square footage of that trailer did not even get touched by that calcium. Soooo why are people requiring loads in between loads and think that it does any good? it dont do a damn bit of good!
Replied on Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 02:36 PM CST
Originally Posted by: CHASE TANKE
Quote: "Can anybody answer this simple question? how does hauling a load inbetween loads before you washout clean your trailer anybetter then just going to get washout in the first place? i swear people think that all products are the same weight density etc and the other product will help sweep out the trailer if there is any carryover of previous load. what they dont realize is that if i haul a load of wheat midds (which would fill my trailer up to the brim) then go haul a load of calcium that half of the square footage of that trailer did not even get touched by that calcium. Soooo why are people requiring loads in between loads and think that it does any good? it dont do a damn bit of good!"

Chase buddy you need to stop trying to make sense. This is about regulation and liability and little else. The purge load merely gives shippers a tool to use to say they are doing what they can to ensure no contamintation happens.


Replied on Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 02:45 PM CST
Originally Posted by: MATTHEW HAGAN
Quote: "Chase buddy you need to stop trying to make sense. This is about regulation and liability and little else. The purge load merely gives shippers a tool to use to say they are doing what they can to ensure no contamintation happens. "

we all know its about liability. my question is why isn't a washout good enough? i just stated that hauling a load inbetween is useless to the cleaniness of a trailer

Replied on Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 03:01 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: CHASE TANKE
Quote: " we all know its about liability. my question is why isn't a washout good enough? i just stated that hauling a load inbetween is useless to the cleaniness of a trailer"

MOSTLY IT IS BECAUSE THE RULES WERE WRITTEN BY PEOPLE IN SUITS WITH COLLEGE DEGREES IN BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION THAT HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER IN THE INDUSTRY THEY ARE REGULATING. i HAVE SUGGESTED MANY TIMES THAT THESE RULEMAKERS SHOULD BE FORCED TO "TEST DRIVE" THESE RULES AND SEE HOW IT AFFECTS THEIR LIVES BEFORE THEY FORCE THE RULE ON AN INDUSTRY. WHILE I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE GOING TO COLLEGE AND GETTING A DEGREE, I THINK THAT A LITTLE PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE OUT IN THE REAL WORLD WOULD DO WONDERS WITH THE INTELLIGENCE LEVEL OF SAID RULEMAKERS.
Replied on Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 03:11 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "MOSTLY IT IS BECAUSE THE RULES WERE WRITTEN BY PEOPLE IN SUITS WITH COLLEGE DEGREES IN BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION THAT HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER IN THE INDUSTRY THEY ARE REGULATING. i HAVE SUGGESTED MANY TIMES THAT THESE RULEMAKERS SHOULD BE FORCED TO "TEST DRIVE" THESE RULES AND SEE HOW IT AFFECTS THEIR LIVES BEFORE THEY FORCE THE RULE ON AN INDUSTRY. WHILE I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE GOING TO COLLEGE AND GETTING A DEGREE, I THINK THAT A LITTLE PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE OUT IN THE REAL WORLD WOULD DO WONDERS WITH THE INTELLIGENCE LEVEL OF SAID RULEMAKERS."

DING DING DING. WE HAVE THE ANSWER. THANKS DUANE. IM DONE WITH THIS POST