Home > Forum > Rate To The Truck

Rate to the truck

Feb 13, 2019 at 11:05 AM CST
+ 2
Just curious what folks think the rate should be that is actually paid to the truck, not what the shipper pays the broker.
Replied on Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 01:31 PM CST
- 1
?????? all of it or none. i wasnt sure how to answer your question did you mean dollar per mile after the dust settles or how much a broker can take off the top of load before the owner throughs hands up and says regrettable words?
Replied on Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 01:31 PM CST
+ 1
those ? were bags of money this forum cant handle emojis
Replied on Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 02:04 PM CST
Originally Posted by: ANDREW WENGER
Quote: "?????? all of it or none. i wasnt sure how to answer your question did you mean dollar per mile after the dust settles or how much a broker can take off the top of load before the owner throughs hands up and says regrettable words?"

Dollar per mile rate, that you the carrier need to RETAIN and attract GOOD QUALIFIED drivers, and still turn a profit for yourself. Many of you have drivers abandoning equipment out there on the road, but pretty much all of you have drivers abandoning equipment at your yard. What is the number that you think would stop that cycle?
Replied on Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 02:31 PM CST
i run partly local and some out of state and i have no employees. i rarely look at dollar per mile per load. I like to look at quarterly average. simple math miles driven and income in needs to be above 2.50 all miles or i might abandon my own equipment.
Replied on Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 09:19 PM CST
+ 4
I am inclined to say $3.50 per mile to the owner of the truck, for every mile on the truck, would be a starting point now that money is the only thing left to offer. All of the stuff that used to make this a great job are gone now, paper logbooks, the freedom to work at your own pace, nice truck stops that had a real restaurant, equipment that was reliable and could be serviced by anyone with a basic set of tools, a understanding public and reasonable enforcement community that hadn't went mentally insane yet. Of course the carriers the truck is leased to, as well as the brokers will need to make something too, especially the ones who are double dipping, so you would have to mark that $3.50 a mile up significantly, perhaps even double it. It will be interesting to see how Uncle Sam wiggles their way out of the mess they created. I saw something on YouTube that Canada is offering citizenship now to anyone who wants to become a trucker.
Replied on Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 07:59 AM CST
+ 1
I agree with you Mr Dave. Personally at that mark or better. What I'd love drivers to do is calculate their costs and what their time is worth a heck of a lot better. Anything you run bulk you run heavy full time plus any trailer you pull is highly specialized and running otr some states (i.e. daggum Georgia) are likely to worry you about the slightest bit of axle weight you're over or anything else they can get you for. You gotta get paid and paid well. Even tho fuel is down for the moment and hopefully it rightly stays down, everything else is up especially if you run a new truck. Get paid fellas
Replied on Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 11:44 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "I am inclined to say $3.50 per mile to the owner of the truck, for every mile on the truck, would be a starting point now that money is the only thing left to offer. All of the stuff that used to make this a great job are gone now, paper logbooks, the freedom to work at your own pace, nice truck stops that had a real restaurant, equipment that was reliable and could be serviced by anyone with a basic set of tools, a understanding public and reasonable enforcement community that hadn't went mentally insane yet. Of course the carriers the truck is leased to, as well as the brokers will need to make something too, especially the ones who are double dipping, so you would have to mark that $3.50 a mile up significantly, perhaps even double it. It will be interesting to see how Uncle Sam wiggles their way out of the mess they created. I saw something on YouTube that Canada is offering citizenship now to anyone who wants to become a trucker."

I agree with you BUT we both know that the new era of trucking companies and O/O that are coming out are not doing the math. They don't know what it costs them to run. It would be nice to be able to get the rates that we need for the exceptional service we provide! We just lost an account because the cold weather changed the rules and now the company is using cheaper trucks. Good for them for now, but when they can not find trucks as other opportunities arise and they come back to us, we will not be there or the price of the freight will be drastically higher. If everyone stands their ground we can make this work! Let's not go out cutting rates!
Replied on Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 11:44 AM CST
+ 2 - 4
.ok so you want 3.50 per ile for all miles , well...I am move 50 loads 3 miles and i am willing to increase the rate to 4 bucks per mile all miles , it will be 2 loads per day on in the morning and one in the afternoon...who wants it ?
Replied on Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 11:44 AM CST
+ 2

I see a lot of these posts and they always make me go "hhmm"? I am not trying to start a thing and we do not move "bulk", but I have been doing this a bit and have also managed an asset based company.

Why doesn't anyone on here talk about the TOTAL cost to run the truck? The rate per mile that you MUST have is a function of cost to run the truck plus some other easily identified items. These costs will include(but are not limited to) the rig and trailer(s), maint, driver pay, maybe a PIA factor for some shippers/receivers, the length of the run and expected profit for the entity that owns the asset. There are also influencing factors related to what a particular market will bear and geography.

Make sense? Thougths?

Replied on Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 11:44 AM CST
+ 1 - 6
I also have another load that is going 225 miles i will pay 3.75 per mile on it , it loads tues at 7 am and will unload friday at 3:30 pm , you will need a washout , and bol of last 2 loads ...who will take this one ?
Replied on Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:24 AM CST
I do agree with you on the average rule you use I break it down each week. I do this for myself as well as those who work with me . I think it gives me a better feel of the trends
Replied on Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:24 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "I am inclined to say $3.50 per mile to the owner of the truck, for every mile on the truck, would be a starting point now that money is the only thing left to offer. All of the stuff that used to make this a great job are gone now, paper logbooks, the freedom to work at your own pace, nice truck stops that had a real restaurant, equipment that was reliable and could be serviced by anyone with a basic set of tools, a understanding public and reasonable enforcement community that hadn't went mentally insane yet. Of course the carriers the truck is leased to, as well as the brokers will need to make something too, especially the ones who are double dipping, so you would have to mark that $3.50 a mile up significantly, perhaps even double it. It will be interesting to see how Uncle Sam wiggles their way out of the mess they created. I saw something on YouTube that Canada is offering citizenship now to anyone who wants to become a trucker."

$3.50 per running mile. Sounds good but lets say you run 100,000 miles per year. That equals out to $350,000.00 I would really like to know where to get that kind of Freight??
Replied on Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:25 AM CST
+ 3 - 1
$ 850.00 for 3 1/2 days plus a $ 50.00 washout no way in hell buddy ! You'd better double or triple that rate if you want any takers. Rates are ok if it was same day delivery !
Replied on Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:25 AM CST
+ 3
Originally Posted by: KEVIN SINGLETARY
Quote: "I also have another load that is going 225 miles i will pay 3.75 per mile on it , it loads tues at 7 am and will unload friday at 3:30 pm , you will need a washout , and bol of last 2 loads ...who will take this one ?"

Do you pay promptly? Or will I need to contact a factoring company?............. Do you have a back haul available?.........Is there a fuel sur-charge?.....Are steel toed boots required at your customer? Or am I good with flip flops and sweat pants?....
Replied on Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:25 AM CST
+ 4
Originally Posted by: DEAN HUGHSON
Quote: "Do you pay promptly? Or will I need to contact a factoring company?............. Do you have a back haul available?.........Is there a fuel sur-charge?.....Are steel toed boots required at your customer? Or am I good with flip flops and sweat pants?...."

there is no such thing as backhaul it costs the same to run the truck to point a as it does to point b
Replied on Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 09:32 AM CST
+ 2 - 1
ok so a couple of you have responded to my posts.... the thing ios , you cannot put a rate per mile out there and expect to make money just as shown in what i posted....I am not sure where or when this rate per mile faux pas came about in the trucking industry but it just does not apply. thats like telling someone you will paint stripes on the highway for a dollar per stripe , but the paint can has to stay in one place and as you paint you get further and further from the can , eventually your rate per stripe is going to bite you in the ass and put you out of business. I remember when broker used to offer loads at a base price ie: i have a load of bricks going from dallas to chicago for 1200.00 can you do it for that , but now its i have bricks for 1.75 per mile. unless you have a signed dedicated contract with guarantees and know what you will be doing day in and day out you cannot operate that way , if you are running load to load then you bid job to job not rate per mile. load 1 for the week might be fine that way , but load 2 might not, wait times , unload times , loading or unloading conditions might vary .... load 1 is 1 pick 1 stop , so fine do 3.50 per mile, load 2 might be 2 picks 5 drops ,...do you still do 3.50 per mile or do you add more or put in pick and drop pay. ....what if its a load monday drive 500 miles unload thursday...or a driver unload piece count load. the rate per mile crap is for your own records to track revenue made for miles traveled and time spent per say....but real world bidding has to be done load by load , some can be done mileage , some need to have an hourly , turn key bid..... the onky way mileage can or would truly work is on a terminal to terminal drop and hook gig.
Replied on Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 09:55 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: KEVIN SINGLETARY
Quote: "ok so a couple of you have responded to my posts.... the thing ios , you cannot put a rate per mile out there and expect to make money just as shown in what i posted....I am not sure where or when this rate per mile faux pas came about in the trucking industry but it just does not apply. thats like telling someone you will paint stripes on the highway for a dollar per stripe , but the paint can has to stay in one place and as you paint you get further and further from the can , eventually your rate per stripe is going to bite you in the ass and put you out of business. I remember when broker used to offer loads at a base price ie: i have a load of bricks going from dallas to chicago for 1200.00 can you do it for that , but now its i have bricks for 1.75 per mile. unless you have a signed dedicated contract with guarantees and know what you will be doing day in and day out you cannot operate that way , if you are running load to load then you bid job to job not rate per mile. load 1 for the week might be fine that way , but load 2 might not, wait times , unload times , loading or unloading conditions might vary .... load 1 is 1 pick 1 stop , so fine do 3.50 per mile, load 2 might be 2 picks 5 drops ,...do you still do 3.50 per mile or do you add more or put in pick and drop pay. ....what if its a load monday drive 500 miles unload thursday...or a driver unload piece count load. the rate per mile crap is for your own records to track revenue made for miles traveled and time spent per say....but real world bidding has to be done load by load , some can be done mileage , some need to have an hourly , turn key bid..... the onky way mileage can or would truly work is on a terminal to terminal drop and hook gig."

Just because a scenario works for you, does not mean that it works for everyone. For the sake of discussion, miles are being discussed. I don't divide my expenses over hours, less wear and tear while parked.
Replied on Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 10:26 AM CST
+ 2
Originally Posted by: KEVIN SINGLETARY
Quote: "ok so a couple of you have responded to my posts.... the thing ios , you cannot put a rate per mile out there and expect to make money just as shown in what i posted....I am not sure where or when this rate per mile faux pas came about in the trucking industry but it just does not apply. thats like telling someone you will paint stripes on the highway for a dollar per stripe , but the paint can has to stay in one place and as you paint you get further and further from the can , eventually your rate per stripe is going to bite you in the ass and put you out of business. I remember when broker used to offer loads at a base price ie: i have a load of bricks going from dallas to chicago for 1200.00 can you do it for that , but now its i have bricks for 1.75 per mile. unless you have a signed dedicated contract with guarantees and know what you will be doing day in and day out you cannot operate that way , if you are running load to load then you bid job to job not rate per mile. load 1 for the week might be fine that way , but load 2 might not, wait times , unload times , loading or unloading conditions might vary .... load 1 is 1 pick 1 stop , so fine do 3.50 per mile, load 2 might be 2 picks 5 drops ,...do you still do 3.50 per mile or do you add more or put in pick and drop pay. ....what if its a load monday drive 500 miles unload thursday...or a driver unload piece count load. the rate per mile crap is for your own records to track revenue made for miles traveled and time spent per say....but real world bidding has to be done load by load , some can be done mileage , some need to have an hourly , turn key bid..... the onky way mileage can or would truly work is on a terminal to terminal drop and hook gig."

You seem to be missing the point, the basic question is how much money is required to retain and attract good quality drivers. Rate per mile works just fine when you combine detention pay with it. But for you guys who only run local, and never make it out of your home town, you should be bidding by the hour. Until the constant driver turnover stops, there will continue to be bad accidents in large numbers, followed by more government regulations on the carriers back.
Replied on Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 10:26 AM CST
+ 3 - 1
so you are saying that you are one of the few that would take that 2 loads per day 6 mile round trip for 3.50 per mile then, or the 300 mile load monday unload thursday. well that great i guess , myself i like to operate my business as it should be guaranteeing that any and all my time is accounted for and properly compensated...not just my miles....i mean think about it ...i will pay you 3 bucks for every nail you put in a piece of wood, i only need 3 per day b ut i need you on the job for 8 hours....you good with 9 bucks a day or would you like to be compensated for the whole job and time spent. ?
Replied on Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 12:32 PM CST
Originally Posted by: KEVIN SINGLETARY
Quote: "so you are saying that you are one of the few that would take that 2 loads per day 6 mile round trip for 3.50 per mile then, or the 300 mile load monday unload thursday. well that great i guess , myself i like to operate my business as it should be guaranteeing that any and all my time is accounted for and properly compensated...not just my miles....i mean think about it ...i will pay you 3 bucks for every nail you put in a piece of wood, i only need 3 per day b ut i need you on the job for 8 hours....you good with 9 bucks a day or would you like to be compensated for the whole job and time spent. ?"

Ya everybody understands what you're saying. For those of us that do 2000 miles a week, hourly doesn't work. I'm not going to charge my customers for my breakdown, or my inability to plan ahead. AI definitely don't report IFTA hours
Replied on Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 12:32 PM CST
+ 4
Originally Posted by: KEVIN SINGLETARY
Quote: "I also have another load that is going 225 miles i will pay 3.75 per mile on it , it loads tues at 7 am and will unload friday at 3:30 pm , you will need a washout , and bol of last 2 loads ...who will take this one ?"

I will take your load for the rate offered +$60.00 per hour storage fee, for every hour it sits on my trailer, provided you can send over a rate confirmation with proof of a broker bond, Because when I checked with FMCSA they couldn't seem to find you in the system for some reason?
Replied on Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 07:07 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "I will take your load for the rate offered +$60.00 per hour storage fee, for every hour it sits on my trailer, provided you can send over a rate confirmation with proof of a broker bond, Because when I checked with FMCSA they couldn't seem to find you in the system for some reason? "

i think this kevin guy was getting shafted on a load that was illegally double broked and was trying to triple broker to the next poor innocent victim or else he was poking fun into the whole forum.
Replied on Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 07:07 AM CST
- 1
question? i hear a lot of 3.50 a mile talk on here. Is that a loaded mile or All miles traveled including the 100 miles you bounced through a truck parade? Or all the fence post holes you hauled over the year to get yourself under your own roof for a few hr.
Replied on Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 07:47 AM CST
+ 3 - 3
I'm sure there's an antitrust violation within this thread... Just a FYI, I'm a broker. I operate on 7-12% depending on the lane and complexity or claim history. Average is 10. It's not set in stone, nor should you consider a minimum rate to be. Figure out your actual operational costs for that load. Time. And then figure out what you want to make to be competitive but still be able to reward yourself for the el actual effort and time involved... Everyone will be a little different. As a broker, I'm going with whoever has the experience, insurance and best price for my customer... We rarely dictate pricing... Someone had to be willing to do it at the rate offered or the customer would be sitting there without help. Be responsive and don't take forever to get bol and scale tickets in and you get paid faster too. There's a moving scale balance that has to be hit or the free market simply says no to the load... Either by the cutoverc not willing to pay higher or the driver not willing to take less... Something always changes and it works out. Be good my friends! Not all brokers are here to screw you drivers... We serve many purposes a lot of drivers don't appreciate or fully understand... That's ok though, you don't have to take the load. Find your own contracts if they'll give them to you and get out there and stop complaining about everything online. Make contract and all for business. It'll come. That's what brokers do...
Replied on Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 07:59 AM CST
Are we watching the failure of the free market system? Driver turnover is around 100%, yet carriers appear unable to charge enough to retain qualified help, in what has been called a record breaking economy. Drivers are leaving faster than anyone can train them, half of the insurance companies that write truck policies left the market, in anticipation of the problems the ELD would bring. Most surveys show driver income to be down 27% since the ELD, and brokers tell us that they can't pay us anymore money to move the load, as shippers in the news tell us they can't find trucks.
Replied on Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 12:10 PM CST
Originally Posted by: BILL HENDERSON
Quote: "I'm sure there's an antitrust violation within this thread... Just a FYI, I'm a broker. I operate on 7-12% depending on the lane and complexity or claim history. Average is 10. It's not set in stone, nor should you consider a minimum rate to be. Figure out your actual operational costs for that load. Time. And then figure out what you want to make to be competitive but still be able to reward yourself for the el actual effort and time involved... Everyone will be a little different. As a broker, I'm going with whoever has the experience, insurance and best price for my customer... We rarely dictate pricing... Someone had to be willing to do it at the rate offered or the customer would be sitting there without help. Be responsive and don't take forever to get bol and scale tickets in and you get paid faster too. There's a moving scale balance that has to be hit or the free market simply says no to the load... Either by the cutoverc not willing to pay higher or the driver not willing to take less... Something always changes and it works out. Be good my friends! Not all brokers are here to screw you drivers... We serve many purposes a lot of drivers don't appreciate or fully understand... That's ok though, you don't have to take the load. Find your own contracts if they'll give them to you and get out there and stop complaining about everything online. Make contract and all for business. It'll come. That's what brokers do..."

Well said! We treat our carriers like customers as well and have for 19 years. There is room for all of us to make money if we work together.

Replied on Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 12:30 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Are we watching the failure of the free market system? Driver turnover is around 100%, yet carriers appear unable to charge enough to retain qualified help, in what has been called a record breaking economy. Drivers are leaving faster than anyone can train them, half of the insurance companies that write truck policies left the market, in anticipation of the problems the ELD would bring. Most surveys show driver income to be down 27% since the ELD, and brokers tell us that they can't pay us anymore money to move the load, as shippers in the news tell us they can't find trucks. "

While I can not necessarily debate your stats, I will tell you that the "ELD Monster" is a myth and driver turnover has been at 100% for quite a while. That's not a good thing and it is definitely a complicated issue to address. I will tell you that we ran 65+ reefers, some drop/hook loading on the outbound, ALL Live unload/reload for returns, mostly into PIA food warehouses and every driver was guaranteed 10k miles per month or better. Some drivers that hustled ran 12k-13k a month. I have a buddy that owns and runs hopper bottoms and walking floors and his guys get even more miles.

While there are some idiosyncrasies to ELD's, they are just your log book without paper. Yes, a young strong driver or an expereienced pro that is road hardened cannot run, run, run like the old days, but that is the world today. Stop fighting it and find solutiuons, get direct customers, find brokers you can trust where everyone earns. Lastly, driving is a job unlike AND just like any other. Yes, you have certain freedoms and it takes a special person to do it well! Yes, most of us (myself included) will say we can't do YOUR job and that drivers pay the highest price of all of us in BS, long hours, lost family time etc. We get all of that. But, whether you're a 20 year vet and own every truck in your fleet or a 1 year NOOB, company driver, you ALL work for someone else for the duration of that load. A LOT of drivers make or are allowed to make WAY TOO many decsions with no idea what it costs to run a truck, how to run a business and how to read a P&L. If you don't like that and can't work with someone to resolve issues, then you may want to reconsider your carreer choice. I hope not, because we need all of you!!

Now this is a bulk board and bulk just may that much different of an animal, but I suspect not. This is also my opinion, for the most part, and all that my opnion will get you is a free cup of coffee in the break room...and it's free to start with.

Be safe out there...

Replied on Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 01:41 PM CST
+ 1
William, I agree with some of your post. But I can't disagree enough on the idea of not fighting the eld. I guess specifically the hos. I like the organization of the eld. But to sit back and accept this hour of service bull crap is so irresponsible... I can't begin to explain it the way I'd like to so that somebody that doesn't drive can understand it. I took off 3 am today, ran into a blizzard, decided to shut down after an hour of that. Turned back to park by 6 am. I took a nap and chilled a bit....I'd like to leave at 2pm to put me to destination by 8pm to cut down on night driving after this blizzard....BUT I CANT. I have to wait until 4, to leave and drive all but a couple of hours in the dark, after 8 inches of snow. What an irresponsible joke. By not violating my hos and leaving now, I'm choosing to leave at a time that is statistically more dangerous considering the weather and traffic. Accepting that as OK, is dangerous. I'm not trying to insinuate you want people in a bad situation or anything. Just expressing my own personal disgust with these hos. Anybody else on the verge of losing their marbles this winter?
Replied on Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 01:50 PM CST
As far as freedom in the truck....the only freedom I want is the freedom to get to work at my place, not someone else's. Leave the safety up to the driver, non of us want to get hurt, or hurt anyone else
Replied on Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 03:49 PM CST
my 2 cents on the eld. Give the (big) companies jb hunt, swift, etc.. an insurance break for eld compliance. They are often self insured anyway. As far as everyone else if your a bad driver your insurance will put you out of business anyway. My theory about that is the problem will take care of its self. But that is getting WAY off course here on this post. And my marbles are bouncing all over the driveway since the first snow.
Replied on Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 08:03 AM CST
Boy oh boy you need to come to the east coast
Replied on Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 07:55 AM CST
+ 1
To say that the ELD monster is a myth seems like a giant white washing campaign, when you consider the disruptions it has caused in the supply chain, the number of exemptions that have been applied for or handed out, etc. It's true that drivers were leaving the industry long before the ELD, but when you have 50% of the insurance companies leaving the industry, that should be a big red flag. It means that they no longer believe it's possible to turn this mess around, a powerful statement to say the least. As for direct customers being a solution to rates? Well New England motor freight had plenty of those, and they had 1700 power units in a specialized LTL market, and they are now shutting the doors, so it definitely wasn't a solution for them. It's easy to bash owner operators and tell them that they are the problem, and they need to find solutions, but they are not the ones setting the rates, they are just picking up what's left over in the market.
Replied on Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 07:55 AM CST
+ 2 - 1
Btw William, I don't think you were bashing owner operators, but we do see a fair amount of that on social media. Usually it's one trucker poking fun of another truckers misfortune.
Replied on Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 08:33 AM CST
I would like to know where this 3.50 a mile freight is. If you run 2000 miles a week pulling a hopper it's not possible. Maybe if you are hauling cannabis out of Laredo Tx grossing 120k. I find it hard to make 2.00 a mile on all miles. Since I'm paying a driver a percentage most of my worries is trying to get a weekly revenue high enough my drivers wont quit. I could take that unicorn load once a week and be able to say my truck never moves unless I make 3.50 a mile. But I could never get a driver to stay. Just saying rates are variable depending on if it's me driving or am I concerned about keeping a driver that takes care of my equipment and wont abandon me.
Replied on Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 09:05 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "To say that the ELD monster is a myth seems like a giant white washing campaign, when you consider the disruptions it has caused in the supply chain, the number of exemptions that have been applied for or handed out, etc. It's true that drivers were leaving the industry long before the ELD, but when you have 50% of the insurance companies leaving the industry, that should be a big red flag. It means that they no longer believe it's possible to turn this mess around, a powerful statement to say the least. As for direct customers being a solution to rates? Well New England motor freight had plenty of those, and they had 1700 power units in a specialized LTL market, and they are now shutting the doors, so it definitely wasn't a solution for them. It's easy to bash owner operators and tell them that they are the problem, and they need to find solutions, but they are not the ones setting the rates, they are just picking up what's left over in the market. "

Define "owner-operator". I have my own authority and I negotiate all of my own rates. I rarely use brokers but even that can be negotiated.
Replied on Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 11:26 AM CST
+ 1
Dean for the purpose of discussion the term Owner operator will be defined as someone with a MC number, who can legally bid on freight. That said how much negotiating power do you really have with one truck, or even a few trucks? The larger your fleet the more leverage you have, as you can actually benefit a customer by moving volume of product, and make a dent in the pile, most contracts worth going after require a large fleet, or the shipper won't even talk to you, which is why most of you are going through brokers in the first place. Now most intelligent people would probably agree that a business should be run for profit. Ok there are now many company drivers out there making a $1.00 a mile in the market, well assuming the drivers pay is based on 25% of what the truck grosses that truck is at $4.00 a mile average. Now ask the question how intelligent is it for you to own a truck, when you are working for half of that? I realize that many shippers probably get a chill running down their back, when they hear us talk about these kind of rates, well they should consider the alternative, what happens when there are no drivers left to haul their freight? Recently major railroads in Canada are being investigated for turning freight away, well it turns out the rail yards are plugged up, because they can't get trucks. Guess who is going to be investigated next?
Replied on Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 12:40 PM CST
WOW!! Lots of assumptions about my business DAVE...
Replied on Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 01:40 PM CST
Dean I wasn't referring to you specifically, I was speaking in general terms.
Replied on Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 06:27 AM CST
- 1
It's probably not fair, but the small carrier is not going to get the same rate as a big carrier, your value to a shipper is determined by the size of your operation. It's really no different than retail, wallmart can get a better price on product when they buy it, because they buy a massive volume of it, so the supplier will value wallmart more as a customer, than the mom and pop store, it's all about volume. I have had some direct customers in the past that would pay a higher rate to a broker than they would to me, based on that same logic, so one day I got frustrated and started booking my loads through the broker instead of going direct, and I made more money even after the broker took their cut. It was my way of sticking it to them for trying to use us small guys to pull the market down. Now that all makes sense to me, but in my opinion here's where stuff gets weird. In every other industry when turnover climbs above 5%, rates go up to bring that turnover back under control. Supply and demand are able to balance each other out, and find a equilibrium, however that don't occur over here in the Bermuda Triangle, our turnover is 100% and rates don't compensate, if anything they go down, more of us leave the market, and then guys with turbins on their head show up, who can't speak English to replace us.
Replied on Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 06:29 AM CST
It's what the general public want. They want everything shipped to there door for cheap, and Lord have mercy if they hafta be behind a truck on the highway making THERE delivery. It sure does help for rates to shop around and see what's out there occasionally you will stumble across something good. The other thing is these BIG companies offer is sign on bonus, and benefits. You gotta love truckin to do it as an owner/operator. Otherwise you get the rhythm and blues real quick.
Replied on Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 06:29 AM CST
I emailed you a loads in oh with no response, do they not exist?
Replied on Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 06:29 AM CST
Sorry I hit unlike By accident.
Replied on Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 01:54 PM CST
Originally Posted by: BILL HENDERSON
Quote: "I'm sure there's an antitrust violation within this thread... Just a FYI, I'm a broker. I operate on 7-12% depending on the lane and complexity or claim history. Average is 10. It's not set in stone, nor should you consider a minimum rate to be. Figure out your actual operational costs for that load. Time. And then figure out what you want to make to be competitive but still be able to reward yourself for the el actual effort and time involved... Everyone will be a little different. As a broker, I'm going with whoever has the experience, insurance and best price for my customer... We rarely dictate pricing... Someone had to be willing to do it at the rate offered or the customer would be sitting there without help. Be responsive and don't take forever to get bol and scale tickets in and you get paid faster too. There's a moving scale balance that has to be hit or the free market simply says no to the load... Either by the cutoverc not willing to pay higher or the driver not willing to take less... Something always changes and it works out. Be good my friends! Not all brokers are here to screw you drivers... We serve many purposes a lot of drivers don't appreciate or fully understand... That's ok though, you don't have to take the load. Find your own contracts if they'll give them to you and get out there and stop complaining about everything online. Make contract and all for business. It'll come. That's what brokers do..."

Idk on bulk side but otr(dry vans) your rates( King of Freight) are really low. Just to say the lees.
Replied on Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 09:13 AM CST
I’m bulk for the info
Replied on Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 07:35 AM CST
+ 3
I think the big myth is the 100% driver turnover. It’s so high because most companies misrepresent their compensation package in some way or another so a few months in when the driver figures out they aren’t going to make $80,000 a year when they’re making $4000 a month and they didn’t like the free company work attire because it’s more constrictive than sweats and flip flops, they move along to the next company that promises $90,000 a year and free short pants. I agree with the things that have been said about economies of scale and what that means as a small carrier. I can’t go after large accounts. I get that. However, I also believe that this is a relatively free market and the costs are fairly easy to calculate. Nowhere do I come up with $3.50 a mile as a reasonable number to expect. I’d like it, but I and companies/brokers I work for have lost freight paying less than that to cheaper trucks. If the driver situation truly becomes critical, the rates will go up. In the meantime, I’ll structure my business to be profitable with the rates I can get, not the rates I would like to see. I do not labor under the delusion that I will ever make as much money for the amount of time I put in as my good friend who is a dentist, for example. His market is harder to get in to, so he will make more, even if my job is harder work. Our line of work will not likely ever be a ticket to early retirement because big business and their big lobbying dollars will always find a way to force less skilled people in when the situation calls for it. In my opinion, autonomous trucks, at least in the beginning, will make the new hazards due to elds look like child’s play. They will march right in to the marketplace, though, because it is a solution to driver retention. Personally, I’d like to see reasonable changes to HOS, so whether paper or eld, we could be efficient. And, I would like for more people to say no to cheap freight, but that’s unlikely since everyone has a different definition of what that is. I apparently am part of the problem operating for under $3.50. Now, everyone can feel free to rip me apart for the new carrier idiot who doesn’t understand costs or negotiating or service or whatever, but that’s my .02
Replied on Fri, Mar 01, 2019 at 07:27 AM CST
+ 3
To answer the original question, I'm satisfied with $2.50/mile to the truck. Unless a washout is required or more than 150 mile deadhead. At that rate, I can maintain the truck and pay the driver a fair wage. However, driver retention will be a problem at this rate or less, as benefits like insurance and retirement are not possible.
I do consider less if there isn't many choices or coming off of a higher paying load or close proximity to reload. But if it gets below $1.80, I will deadhead for the principle of it and not to support someone's profit at my expense.
Replied on Sat, Mar 02, 2019 at 11:32 AM CST
Originally Posted by: KEVIN SINGLETARY
Quote: ".ok so you want 3.50 per ile for all miles , well...I am move 50 loads 3 miles and i am willing to increase the rate to 4 bucks per mile all miles , it will be 2 loads per day on in the morning and one in the afternoon...who wants it ? "

Kevin, Do you need trucks in the Livingston//East Texas area? I'm in Liberty Cty. If so, what type equipment? Thanks.
Replied on Sun, Mar 03, 2019 at 07:03 AM CST
+ 1
I'd like for somebody to correct me on what I'm going to post because I am just thinking out loud and could be totally wrong here. I guess I agree that a big part of low rates comes from the truckers willingness to do it, but I also think that all the responsibility cant be placed on them. So brokers, correct me if I'm wrong and don't take offense because you good brokers know who you are and are appreciated....how did we get to the point of requiring perfection in negotiating and business skills to get a fair paying load? If a bank lends money to someone at a super high interest rate simply because someone doesn't know better that's not allowed. A car salesman can't sell a 1981 Honda civic to a teenager at an unfair price. So how is it fair to a trucker to negotiate when , metaphorically speaking, the broker is the only one holding the cards in the poker game? Negotiating a car sale is easy, most consumers know the approximate value, or even the exact value thanks to KBB. I believe in capitalism and free market but how is an inexperienced or young person supposed to learn this stuff. And if a company has a few drivers to pay wages to, they may be desperate, so if a broker quotes a shipper 4 bucks a mile and pays the truck 1.10, that doesn't seem like capitalism because the playing field for negotiation is not level because we don't know what your working with. When you negotiate t he price of a house its based on an appraised value. Im throwing this out respectfully and fully understand that not all brokers are bad. I work with some great people
Replied on Sun, Mar 03, 2019 at 01:06 PM CST
Like it or not Dale, you ARE in the poker game. How do you learn? Mostly the "school of hard knocks". Lots of information and the ability to decipher that information. I have learned to play the cards in my hand. Do your best to hold a pretty good hand. Have some idea what the other guy is holding. I don't go anywhere without some sort of plan. There is something about saying NO and "putting it in the wind". Maybe you could cover fuel. But the teachable moment could be worth more. The shipper and broker make their plays based on yours.

Think outside the box. Run efficient. And provide better service. Someone will notice...
Replied on Sun, Mar 03, 2019 at 03:46 PM CST
Dean I agree with you and thanks for not tearing me apart. I agree I'm in the poker game, but I'm asked to place a bet before seeing a card. I'd be willing to bet that if realtors didn't allow a buyer to look inside the house that MOST home buyers would dig themselves a big hole. I agree with you for the most part though and yes doing a good job and working hard beats the competition. Capitalism requires competition and honesty in order to work. I'm not saying you are dishonest, but when companies like chs are paying .25 per bushel on a load that should pay .45 the school of hard knocks doesn't apply because the margins don't allow for learning from your mistakes, which are the best teachers. I've had some luck in this industry and I work my rear off, unfortunately thanks to these hours of service it's tough to set myself apart from others to add value to wether or not you want to hire me for a time sensitive load. Thanks for the discussion Dean. I look forward to your response, it's educational for newbies like me
Replied on Sun, Mar 03, 2019 at 10:04 PM CST
How screwed up will this be allowed to get before something changes? For those who have been paying attention, the senate commerce committee just a few days ago held a hearing where they heard testimony from Agribusinesses how the entire supply chain has failed, both domestically and internationally. Shippers testified how they were throwing product away or watching it rott on the ground, because they couldn't find trucks, resulting in clogged up rail yards and maritime ports. Funny how FMCSA wasn't talking about how great the ELD's were at the hearing, or wanting to take credit for them. Well we have been hear before back in 1933, when FDR stepped in and started economically regulating the trucking industry. At a time when the stock market is hitting all time highs, shippers are saying they can't find trucks, and truckers are saying they are going broke? Insurance companies are now leaving the industry faster than the drivers, and accidents and violations are soaring to new highs. The ELD may have put the focus onto HOS, but HOS is putting the focus on Rates. How many of believe that the government will allow the current course to continue, now that the supply chain is falling apart?
Replied on Mon, Mar 04, 2019 at 03:16 PM CST
+ 5
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "I'd like for somebody to correct me on what I'm going to post because I am just thinking out loud and could be totally wrong here. I guess I agree that a big part of low rates comes from the truckers willingness to do it, but I also think that all the responsibility cant be placed on them. So brokers, correct me if I'm wrong and don't take offense because you good brokers know who you are and are appreciated....how did we get to the point of requiring perfection in negotiating and business skills to get a fair paying load? If a bank lends money to someone at a super high interest rate simply because someone doesn't know better that's not allowed. A car salesman can't sell a 1981 Honda civic to a teenager at an unfair price. So how is it fair to a trucker to negotiate when , metaphorically speaking, the broker is the only one holding the cards in the poker game? Negotiating a car sale is easy, most consumers know the approximate value, or even the exact value thanks to KBB. I believe in capitalism and free market but how is an inexperienced or young person supposed to learn this stuff. And if a company has a few drivers to pay wages to, they may be desperate, so if a broker quotes a shipper 4 bucks a mile and pays the truck 1.10, that doesn't seem like capitalism because the playing field for negotiation is not level because we don't know what your working with. When you negotiate t he price of a house its based on an appraised value. Im throwing this out respectfully and fully understand that not all brokers are bad. I work with some great people"

Dale, once again I enjoyed reading your post. I can always count on you to level headed and bring legitiment concerns to light. First off let me say I agree with much of your views, however, I don't agree that the broker holds all the cards. Here's why, the way i see it is we need YOU a hall of a lot more than you need me. Knowing this and being a former shifter myself I feel puts me in a better position to negotiate with the shippers on YOUR behalf. I guess I could be wrong as well but when I negotiate a load I'm doing it for YOU, I dont have the trucks so I NEED you. I will admit I know I dont have the highest paying freight in the market, however, I can promise you I'm far from the cheapest as well. There are MANY facets to the rates we show loads at, without going into the deatils which would likely put you to sleep it is near impossible for me as a broker to just say ALL the laods I take from the shipper MUST pay me $4.50/mi so i can give $4.25/mi to the truck. I know my profession does not have the greatest reputation due to a few bad ones. If you take nothing else from this post please know, some of us understand how useless we are without your trucks and try very hard to make our shippers & receivers understand it as well. In closing, I feel YOU hold the cards and rightly so.
Replied on Mon, Mar 04, 2019 at 06:30 PM CST
Thanks Jim

This trucking thing has been a monstrous learning experience the past year. I think its human nature to want to take the easiest path to be able to support your family. I found it hard to believe that there are that many people taking these increadibly cheap loads but there must be, see the line at any conventional soybean facility. Im empty for around 300 miles between loads and its hard to be disciplined and pass up the money. With 800 or more empty miles a week it can easily pull the dollars per mile driven average down WELL below 2 bucks at times. And those incredibly cheap loads require us carriers to get more money from you GOOD PEOPLE in order to make up for the empty miles. Last year my dollars per mile driven average was higher than what im on track for now, but i'm hopeful that less maintenance will make up the difference. Again i need to stress that my inquiring to this situation isnt to you hard working brokers. I dont expect top dollar for my loads, in order to be, competitive i believe i need to be able to do it at a fair rate. Honestly depending on the place, and to a reliable customer, i'll do a damn cheap load if that person is in a pinch. I dont expect anything in return other than dont abuse "the i'm in a pinch" rate. And i definitely dont expect 4 bucks a mile all the time. Unfortunately, there are people in the industry abusing the i'm in a pinch rate, to take advantage of people and those few bad apples create tension between your side and mine, Just like how a few slobs behind the wheel, reflects poorly on all of us and that is one reason we have this expensive, work ethic cripling, safety joke eld computer sitting on the dash. I appreciate the discussion, Jim, if your ever looking for trucks or just to BS in further detail, shoot me an email [email protected]
Replied on Wed, Mar 06, 2019 at 07:45 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "William, I agree with some of your post. But I can't disagree enough on the idea of not fighting the eld. I guess specifically the hos. I like the organization of the eld. But to sit back and accept this hour of service bull crap is so irresponsible... I can't begin to explain it the way I'd like to so that somebody that doesn't drive can understand it. I took off 3 am today, ran into a blizzard, decided to shut down after an hour of that. Turned back to park by 6 am. I took a nap and chilled a bit....I'd like to leave at 2pm to put me to destination by 8pm to cut down on night driving after this blizzard....BUT I CANT. I have to wait until 4, to leave and drive all but a couple of hours in the dark, after 8 inches of snow. What an irresponsible joke. By not violating my hos and leaving now, I'm choosing to leave at a time that is statistically more dangerous considering the weather and traffic. Accepting that as OK, is dangerous. I'm not trying to insinuate you want people in a bad situation or anything. Just expressing my own personal disgust with these hos. Anybody else on the verge of losing their marbles this winter? "

So, what has your post have to do with an eld? You crybabies should learn that the H O S are what got us all wadded up in the first place. So, get your story straight mister. It anint the ELD problem no more than a logbook problem. SHUT UP ABOUT ELDS! Its the law so learn how to use it to your advantage! Posting for a friend.
Replied on Wed, Mar 06, 2019 at 07:45 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "William, I agree with some of your post. But I can't disagree enough on the idea of not fighting the eld. I guess specifically the hos. I like the organization of the eld. But to sit back and accept this hour of service bull crap is so irresponsible... I can't begin to explain it the way I'd like to so that somebody that doesn't drive can understand it. I took off 3 am today, ran into a blizzard, decided to shut down after an hour of that. Turned back to park by 6 am. I took a nap and chilled a bit....I'd like to leave at 2pm to put me to destination by 8pm to cut down on night driving after this blizzard....BUT I CANT. I have to wait until 4, to leave and drive all but a couple of hours in the dark, after 8 inches of snow. What an irresponsible joke. By not violating my hos and leaving now, I'm choosing to leave at a time that is statistically more dangerous considering the weather and traffic. Accepting that as OK, is dangerous. I'm not trying to insinuate you want people in a bad situation or anything. Just expressing my own personal disgust with these hos. Anybody else on the verge of losing their marbles this winter? "

So, what has your post have to do with an eld? You crybabies should learn that the H O S are what got us all wadded up in the first place. So, get your story straight mister. It anint the ELD problem no more than a logbook problem. SHUT UP ABOUT ELDS! Its the law so learn how to use it to your advantage! Posting for a friend.
Replied on Thu, Mar 07, 2019 at 08:00 AM CST
+ 3
The rates are the main problem, if they were high enough truckers could park during bad weather, and still be profitable. That said I seem to remember Mr. Nickels telling all of us sometime back, how the ELD was going to benefit us and Make everything better. Well what happened, rates still suck, detention is still a problem, and now there is a shortage of parking, since everyone is on the same schedule. If this is not a problem Mr.Nickels, why have so many exemptions been sought or granted? Why is Ray Martinez changing HOS? Well possibly because it's easier to Change HOS, than it is to change rates, and it will not cost the shippers anything to do it? When push comes to shove, the government will throw FMCSA under the bus, because ultimately it's the boys on Wall Street that call the shots. Government gets its power from the people, not the other way around.
Replied on Thu, Mar 07, 2019 at 10:34 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DAVE NICKEL
Quote: "So, what has your post have to do with an eld? You crybabies should learn that the H O S are what got us all wadded up in the first place. So, get your story straight mister. It anint the ELD problem no more than a logbook problem. SHUT UP ABOUT ELDS! Its the law so learn how to use it to your advantage! Posting for a friend."

Mr nickel, I wish your friend would have read my post that they decided to reply to. I appreciate your friends opinion. I felt it was a bit rude, but I probably brought that on myself based on our Roundup discussion. Unfortunately for your friend, I don't plan to shut up about hos. I communicate with my state officials about it and don't intend to stop. Since I'm inexperienced I do my best to make up the difference with hard work. If your friend can't keep up, then I'd guess people like me will end up with your friends customers in the future. I believe in equal opportunities, not equal outcome.
Replied on Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 10:08 AM CST
Mr. Hermans....all i read was your statment about the ELD. To me, you started your comment on the problem with elds. Not H O S. I am only commenting on the ELD issue.

Replied on Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 12:41 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "William, I agree with some of your post. But I can't disagree enough on the idea of not fighting the eld. I guess specifically the hos. I like the organization of the eld. But to sit back and accept this hour of service bull crap is so irresponsible... I can't begin to explain it the way I'd like to so that somebody that doesn't drive can understand it. I took off 3 am today, ran into a blizzard, decided to shut down after an hour of that. Turned back to park by 6 am. I took a nap and chilled a bit....I'd like to leave at 2pm to put me to destination by 8pm to cut down on night driving after this blizzard....BUT I CANT. I have to wait until 4, to leave and drive all but a couple of hours in the dark, after 8 inches of snow. What an irresponsible joke. By not violating my hos and leaving now, I'm choosing to leave at a time that is statistically more dangerous considering the weather and traffic. Accepting that as OK, is dangerous. I'm not trying to insinuate you want people in a bad situation or anything. Just expressing my own personal disgust with these hos. Anybody else on the verge of losing their marbles this winter? "

Mr. Hermans....again, what are you complaing about, the ELD, or HOS? make up your mind. This is most defiently an H O S problem. My solution? Keep the ELD, and change the AHOS back to 10 off in a 24 hour period. In other words, start and stop capibilities....
Replied on Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 03:39 PM CST
Dave nickel, I don't want to argue with you about it. My post clearly points out that I like my eld. My reason is because ifta is super easy. I also clearly indicated that I think the hos are crap. I don't see where I go back and forth in any sense. Im definitely getting the impression you don't like what I have to say and that's fine, I respect that and like I said, I probably brought that on myself. I apologise if I was harsh on our Roundup discussion. I like these discussions on this forum, it's very educational. I'm inexperienced. I learn from communication with smarter people than me. If you don't like me please don't comment on my posts. Good luck, I hope the floods aren't affecting you
Replied on Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 04:39 PM CST
+ 1
2.50 a mile. is good. I run from Alma Ga to Joplin every week for 2.40. Then I rely on brokers to find me a decent load back to somewhere near Alma. For the last 4 weeks I have run 2356 miles on the odometer for 4900 in revinue. And I have done this in 4 days on an ELD. I get paid 25% of what the truck makes. $1000 a week for 4 days work. My boss does not need to worry about driver retention.
Replied on Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 12:29 PM CST
Originally Posted by: MAX WHITACRE
Quote: "2.50 a mile. is good. I run from Alma Ga to Joplin every week for 2.40. Then I rely on brokers to find me a decent load back to somewhere near Alma. For the last 4 weeks I have run 2356 miles on the odometer for 4900 in revinue. And I have done this in 4 days on an ELD. I get paid 25% of what the truck makes. $1000 a week for 4 days work. My boss does not need to worry about driver retention."

That's good that your boss pays you well and that you have a nice run like that. I personally think 2.50 is just OK in a situation like that. In your case, after you are paid and after maintenance and fuel that only leaves about .80 per mile roughly for the truck. That's before the truck and trailer payment and depreciation
Replied on Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 07:47 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "That's good that your boss pays you well and that you have a nice run like that. I personally think 2.50 is just OK in a situation like that. In your case, after you are paid and after maintenance and fuel that only leaves about .80 per mile roughly for the truck. That's before the truck and trailer payment and depreciation"

Not wanting to start an arguement or anything but I'm curious as to how you figure your maintenance and fuel? I figured if he gets 25% of $2.40 that leaves $1.60. Fuel at $3.08 national average for the week and 6mpg for 2400 miles {rounding up} =$1232 divided 2400 miles $0.513 which leaves $1.08 so what your saying is you put $650.00 a week in to maintenance ($0.28 x 2350 miles) rounded down?
Replied on Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 07:48 PM CST
Don’t forget to throw in maintenance, truck insurance, social security, retirement fund, and health care for a family, so you won’t become a burden to society somewhere along the line, and suddenly $2.50 a mile comes up short. If the government were to force employers to provide these items to employees, how many employers would have to admit they are coming up short at $2.50 per mile?
Replied on Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 06:53 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: RON MILLER
Quote: "Not wanting to start an arguement or anything but I'm curious as to how you figure your maintenance and fuel? I figured if he gets 25% of $2.40 that leaves $1.60. Fuel at $3.08 national average for the week and 6mpg for 2400 miles {rounding up} =$1232 divided 2400 miles $0.513 which leaves $1.08 so what your saying is you put $650.00 a week in to maintenance ($0.28 x 2350 miles) rounded down?"

Yeah I'm just ballpark figuring. Pulling a hoper I've never averaged a 6mpg ifta quarter. At best in summer I'm 5.5. this winter I was 4.06 between additives and fuel I'm around .40 per mile. I use alot of number one from November to April up here .maintenance costs for myself were around .20 per mile last year, Which was my first year. Between license plates and permits and insurance and the occasional fine it eats that money up pretty quick. Yeah I didn't lay out an exact spreadsheet because I didn't think my "pro increased rate" opinion would have hairs split. Justmaking the case that a driver can potentially make more profitthan the truck owner at 2.40per mile. Not saying there's anything wrong with a driver making good money. I'm just saying that in my opinion 2.40 isn't good. It's OK
Replied on Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 08:06 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Yeah I'm just ballpark figuring. Pulling a hoper I've never averaged a 6mpg ifta quarter. At best in summer I'm 5.5. this winter I was 4.06 between additives and fuel I'm around .40 per mile. I use alot of number one from November to April up here .maintenance costs for myself were around .20 per mile last year, Which was my first year. Between license plates and permits and insurance and the occasional fine it eats that money up pretty quick. Yeah I didn't lay out an exact spreadsheet because I didn't think my "pro increased rate" opinion would have hairs split. Justmaking the case that a driver can potentially make more profitthan the truck owner at 2.40per mile. Not saying there's anything wrong with a driver making good money. I'm just saying that in my opinion 2.40 isn't good. It's OK "

Oh I agree with you on the rate being just getting by unless you have to bounce more then 100 miles then its less then adequate. But as for maintenance I thought that was a tad high for myself,, of course I do all my own services which saves alot. And again I'll say I'M not wanting to argue just saying my choices and a fact for me is with mpg has never been below 6mpg even in winter weather you want the advice or not its all about how you take off and get up to speed and finding that sweet spot your motor likes. Even when I had young drivers in my trucks the ones that would listen to me run 6.2-6.6mpg the ones that run the way they wanted 4.5-5.5mpg. If you think about it,,,,its easy really the less you push on that pedal the less fuel and now I know everybody is going to jump down my throat saying it doesnt matter but oh well.
Replied on Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 08:06 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Yeah I'm just ballpark figuring. Pulling a hoper I've never averaged a 6mpg ifta quarter. At best in summer I'm 5.5. this winter I was 4.06 between additives and fuel I'm around .40 per mile. I use alot of number one from November to April up here .maintenance costs for myself were around .20 per mile last year, Which was my first year. Between license plates and permits and insurance and the occasional fine it eats that money up pretty quick. Yeah I didn't lay out an exact spreadsheet because I didn't think my "pro increased rate" opinion would have hairs split. Justmaking the case that a driver can potentially make more profitthan the truck owner at 2.40per mile. Not saying there's anything wrong with a driver making good money. I'm just saying that in my opinion 2.40 isn't good. It's OK "

Oh forgot to say I dont know what your paying for fuel but national average is at $3.08 this week and if your getting 4 mpg this winter you need $0.77 per mile just to cover fuel not counting additives.
Replied on Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 07:15 AM CST
Around 20 cents just had that discussion with my trucking accountant this past weekend! That's pretty standard across the industry.
Replied on Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 07:53 AM CST
Around 20 cents just had that discussion with my trucking accountant this past weekend! That's pretty standard across the industry. Everyone situation is different. Just to cover the cost of the tractor. New tractor $150,000. If you run that tractor 150,000 miles a year for 5 years, and dedicate 20 cents to each mile you will recoup the cost of the tractor. I think that's how we arrived at around 20 cents a mile.
Replied on Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 12:18 PM CST
Mr. Herman, it rained again so I have a bit of leisure screen to see.So, what is the average rate of the fertilizer rates up there? For liquid, and ammonia, and dry? would you happen to know that? Thx
Replied on Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 12:18 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "The rates are the main problem, if they were high enough truckers could park during bad weather, and still be profitable. That said I seem to remember Mr. Nickels telling all of us sometime back, how the ELD was going to benefit us and Make everything better. Well what happened, rates still suck, detention is still a problem, and now there is a shortage of parking, since everyone is on the same schedule. If this is not a problem Mr.Nickels, why have so many exemptions been sought or granted? Why is Ray Martinez changing HOS? Well possibly because it's easier to Change HOS, than it is to change rates, and it will not cost the shippers anything to do it? When push comes to shove, the government will throw FMCSA under the bus, because ultimately it's the boys on Wall Street that call the shots. Government gets its power from the people, not the other way around."

Well, this is finally being talked about at higher levels. Why? because you cant cheat the eld. Now, you took my post a bit out of context. The eld is benifiting us. as i stated in the first sentence. Its showing the real times most are sitting ...waiting to load/unload. We are our own worst ememy, when someone decides they can do it at a reduced rate. IDK< maybe some can. But why should a shipper tell us what the rate will be? WE need to change that. When is the last time you bought a tire and said "I'll pay you $250.00 for that new tire and not a penny more? Isn't that what shippers are doing to us?
. Brokers are just like us, they are trying to carve out a living, and some ruin it for the rest....Just like transportation specialists. All we have is service to offer. Thats all trucking is. Some do it better. But let me ask you this...Have you, yourself actually talked to the shipper about detention pay? I think as an industry, because the eld is shining a light (legitimently) on actual hours and gps locations, that it will prove to the desk jockey that a truck sat for x amount of hours. If we all stick with this it will change. And, as we get even older, we will be dropping out of the industry making things even worse for shippers, to rely on safe freight moving. Remember, it the HOS that needs to be fixed, not the way we record them.
Replied on Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 12:18 PM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: MAX WHITACRE
Quote: "2.50 a mile. is good. I run from Alma Ga to Joplin every week for 2.40. Then I rely on brokers to find me a decent load back to somewhere near Alma. For the last 4 weeks I have run 2356 miles on the odometer for 4900 in revinue. And I have done this in 4 days on an ELD. I get paid 25% of what the truck makes. $1000 a week for 4 days work. My boss does not need to worry about driver retention."

MAX GOT ANY FRIENDS WITH GOOD CLEAN RECORDS I PAY .60 CENTS TO $1.00 ALL MILES.. END DUMP OPERATOR.. PAPER LOG.. AND STILL CANT FIND QUALIFIED DRIVERS .. RUN LONG MILES ..LOAD NOTHING UNDER 200 MILES.. MY DRIVERS MAKE AT LEAST $1700 WEEK MIN..CALL RON 612 490 7016..
Replied on Mon, Apr 01, 2019 at 07:06 AM CST
Originally Posted by: RON ROSKOWIAK
Quote: "MAX GOT ANY FRIENDS WITH GOOD CLEAN RECORDS I PAY .60 CENTS TO $1.00 ALL MILES.. END DUMP OPERATOR.. PAPER LOG.. AND STILL CANT FIND QUALIFIED DRIVERS .. RUN LONG MILES ..LOAD NOTHING UNDER 200 MILES.. MY DRIVERS MAKE AT LEAST $1700 WEEK MIN..CALL RON 612 490 7016.."

another issue that didnt surface yet in this thread is the millennials have an entitled mentality. why bust it when mom and pop or grandpa pays your way to party in college. Then when reality hits you still dont want to work to hard. I am in the millennial generation and i worked hard instead of partying. Your money sounds good team swr almost makes me want to sell my rig. but finding a 21 year old that wants to work hard and not smoke pot is hard.
Replied on Tue, Apr 02, 2019 at 08:02 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DAVE NICKEL
Quote: "Well, this is finally being talked about at higher levels. Why? because you cant cheat the eld. Now, you took my post a bit out of context. The eld is benifiting us. as i stated in the first sentence. Its showing the real times most are sitting ...waiting to load/unload. We are our own worst ememy, when someone decides they can do it at a reduced rate. IDK< maybe some can. But why should a shipper tell us what the rate will be? WE need to change that. When is the last time you bought a tire and said "I'll pay you $250.00 for that new tire and not a penny more? Isn't that what shippers are doing to us? . Brokers are just like us, they are trying to carve out a living, and some ruin it for the rest....Just like transportation specialists. All we have is service to offer. Thats all trucking is. Some do it better. But let me ask you this...Have you, yourself actually talked to the shipper about detention pay? I think as an industry, because the eld is shining a light (legitimently) on actual hours and gps locations, that it will prove to the desk jockey that a truck sat for x amount of hours. If we all stick with this it will change. And, as we get even older, we will be dropping out of the industry making things even worse for shippers, to rely on safe freight moving. Remember, it the HOS that needs to be fixed, not the way we record them. "

Ok, the ELD is shining the light on detention time, big deal now the government is changing the rules to legitimize shippers wasting our time, and not having to pay for it? So how exactly Is the ELD benefiting us again? Rates are determined by your competitors, not the ELD. If someone else is doing it cheaper, the shipper would be a fool to pay us anymore. Maybe some other carriers are paying their company drivers with a 1099, and not paying work comp, social security or benefits, that’s basically what the meggafleets lease purchase programs amount to, and your expected to complete against it. It’s also true that this new generation does not want to work like we did, so when the government changes the HOS to make what used to be considered cheating legal, they can expect the ELD supporting millennials to leave the industry. The government opened a can of worms, and there is no going back regardless of what they do now this industry is going to loose drivers. The paper logbook offered protection to drivers on both sides of the isle, income had to be based on a 14 hour day, yet there was flexibility within reason. Give a driver 18 hours to work on a ELD, and rest assured the market will adapt to require a full 18 hour day to make a living. If freight ever does stop moving because nobody can pass a drug test, the government will just simply change those rules too, just like they dropped the requirement to speak English, or like how they decided to change HOS.
Replied on Tue, Apr 02, 2019 at 08:02 AM CST
Mr nickels I definitely agree with you, that as a group we are our own worst enemy, and you make a very good point with your tire analogy. To take it a step farther no CEO of a publicly traded company would ever knowingly leave a profit out there on the table, because if he did his corporation would be sued by their shareholders, yet we see truckers justify it all the time.