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RATES

May 09, 2018 at 02:26 PM CST
- 3
Why are hopper rates lagging so bad compared to any others out there. Tyson says there getting killed on logistic rates. Where is the freight money going if trucking rates are still very low for hoppers. the answer is reefers and dry vans. We pulled off some hoppers to pull reefers and are making a solid $1.00 to $1.50 a mile better than hopper rates.
Replied on Wed, May 09, 2018 at 03:53 PM CST
+ 3 - 1
It doesn't make any sense that a 50,000 lb load of ingredients gets hauled into a dog food plant at the rate of $.02 a lb by a hopper with no detention after sitting there for 5 hours but i can come in with a dry van and get a 20,000 load that had to be bagged, stacked, and rapped on a pallet and get a $3.50 per mile rate to haul that around and $100.00 detention if you have to sit. Dog food it $2.00 + a lb on the store shelves. Hopper brokers need to get there head out of there a** and start getting a fair rate for the hopper trucks. At $3.20 a gal for fuel hopper trucks cant afford to put 55% of those profits back in the fuel tank along with increasing insurance, repair, equipment cost, and etc. and make a living.
Replied on Wed, May 09, 2018 at 04:26 PM CST
+ 1 - 2
until people quit taking cheap hopper loads the rates will not go up. i unhooked my hopper last april to pull a tanker. i make more after fuel and the company takes their percentage than most of these guys who are hauling both ways with a hopper and im empty 50% of the time.
Replied on Wed, May 09, 2018 at 04:32 PM CST
+ 1 - 1
We parked a couple of hoppers and hooked up to reefers. Best thing we did till hopper rates start catching up. Reefer rates are a strong $1.00-$1.50 higher than hoppers. Drivers leave on Monday home Friday afternoon and were pulling in $8,000-$9,000 a week on about 2,600 miles for the week. We are not getting that with a hoppers.

Our hopper drivers are out a month at a time 7 days a week and have a hard time pulling in $4,500.00 a week because of the low rates and all the sitting around time with no detention and most of the time there is no reason at all for sitting around. You can be the only truck there for the day and they will still scew with you all day long and not unload or load the dam truck.
Replied on Wed, May 09, 2018 at 05:39 PM CST
- 2
Exactly....I won' accept a load till its negotiated up to Atleast 2.50...I spend Atleast 2 days of the week on the phone / laptop looking and negotiating....What's going on with the hoppers? Everyone here has nailed it on what is going on and experiencing the same issues. Is there that many brokers drowning the hopper bottom market? Are there certain brokers who have cornered the market? The majority of drivers for the hoppers all say the same thing....I am having to stay with long hauls, to avoid waiting...it's NOT working...
Replied on Wed, May 09, 2018 at 07:52 PM CST
- 2
Exactly....I won' accept a load till its negotiated up to Atleast 2.50...I spend Atleast 2 days of the week on the phone / laptop looking and negotiating....What's going on with the hoppers? Everyone here has nailed it on what is going on and experiencing the same issues. Is there that many brokers drowning the hopper bottom market? Are there certain brokers who have cornered the market? The majority of drivers for the hoppers all say the same thing....I am having to stay with long hauls, to avoid waiting...it's NOT working...
Replied on Wed, May 09, 2018 at 08:52 PM CST
- 2
well gee , imagine that , i was just trying to have the same conversation on fb and was continually told that i was a dumbass for wanting to be paid extra for washouts and extra mileage to and from a washout. although curt was constructive on his input. but yes it does not make sense that alot , well pretty much all of these guys pulling hoppers are letting themselves be undersold as well as are giving away free services. but , with no unity or willingnesss to work together nothing will change.I talked to a broker today about a load , when i asked about fsc. and if they paid for washout and extra mileage to and from the washout i was told.....oh its all incuded in the rate . I told him he knew as well as i that , that is the oldest line in the book and he could keep his freight.
Replied on Wed, May 09, 2018 at 10:51 PM CST
+ 1 - 4
Hopper rates likely will not go up until ag commodity prices go up.
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 06:16 AM CST
+ 1 - 3
Commodity prices have nothing to do with freight rates. Rates are controlled by the trucking companies. If the rates are low it is because someone is willing to haul it. If they can't find a truck to haul for their desired rate the trucker sets the rate, they need to move the load. Today most commodities are traded on freight because it's the only flexible price in the market they all have to pay the same price for the commodity.
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 06:56 AM CST
- 2
the waiting with a hopper hurts you more than you think. let's say you run eld and are squeaky legal if you get held up 2 hr at load point and 2 hr on unload well that's it and for local running you made a grand total of maybe 600 bucks . the bs of waiting and then being a renegade to make second load while running illegal because of waiting time is my BIGGEST PROBLEM with the ingredient industry. Running illegal is my problem and and not the shipper or receivers issue. Until this can be fixed I see NO future for owner ops making a living hauling feed stuff.
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 07:03 AM CST
+ 2 - 2
farm owned trucks. they don't have to make money. the farm just views the trucks as necessary. It gets them out of the house during the week
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 07:17 AM CST
- 2
I know plenty of non farmer owned trucks hauling cheep because they have a driver that needs to be paid so they figure any load is better than no load. If the problem was due to farmer owned trucks the rate should double at harvest and that doesn't happen. Cheap Trucks create cheap rates. Its all in our hands to fix but it takes all.
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 07:47 AM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: RICK ATSMA
Quote: "Commodity prices have nothing to do with freight rates. Rates are controlled by the trucking companies. If the rates are low it is because someone is willing to haul it. If they can't find a truck to haul for their desired rate the trucker sets the rate, they need to move the load. Today most commodities are traded on freight because it's the only flexible price in the market they all have to pay the same price for the commodity."

I agree. I haul some worthless products from time to time. But it has to be moved and may require some expensive equipment. Sometimes the freight bill is far more than the FOB price of the product.

Supply and demand. That's why some are moving to the reefers. But be careful...

Like the name Cowchow, clever.
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 07:52 AM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: RICK ATSMA
Quote: "Commodity prices have nothing to do with freight rates. Rates are controlled by the trucking companies. If the rates are low it is because someone is willing to haul it. If they can't find a truck to haul for their desired rate the trucker sets the rate, they need to move the load. Today most commodities are traded on freight because it's the only flexible price in the market they all have to pay the same price for the commodity."

I will agree that if someone is willing to haul to cheap, that will create a rate problem. But if the value of the product in the hopper is at a historic low, how can that not reflect on the rate? Just asking. Not starting a fight. If the profitability for the person who raised or made the product is a negative...

And if farmer owned hoppers have nothing to do with it(which I am a farmer with two hoppers) why is fertilizer out of st Paul 40 a ton for 300 miles. Where it was 22 a ton 3 weeks ago? Yes demand for fertilizer is up right now, but my phone is ringing for people looking for bird seed hauled as well.


Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 08:00 AM CST
+ 1 - 3
/I am speculating here, but if commodity prices are low, I imagine that it gives the seller less margin to play with. A lot of companies operate on a "cost +" basis. So if they always add say 15% to their product cost to get to their selling price (I'm over simplifying here a bit), a buying price of $1/bu would give $0.15/bu profit, whereas $10/bu would give $1.50/bu profit. At the higher price there is a lot more room to sacrifice a bit of profit to get the product moved. They can give up $1/bu of profit and make out with a $0.50/bu profit on the whole load, whereas with low prices they at the start are only making $0.15/bu - at some point, the small profit isn't even worth the effort and they're better off sitting on product not moving.

Again totally speculating here, but I've had some limited insight on this type of pricing and thats often how it was explained to me, I don't actually know how the typical commodity broker/seller operates.
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 08:05 AM CST
- 2
Like I said if they can't find a truck higher rates will bring them in. As far as low commodity prices affecting rates it should have no effect. If the product in my trailer is valued at $1.00 a ton or $300.00 a ton it does not change my cost to move it. I have hauled plenty of loads that the cost of freight was 90% of the price the end user paid because it had to be moved.
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 08:11 AM CST
- 2
Sometimes things have to move at any cost.

Sometimes worthless products can only move if the freight is cheap enough.

I don't know if it happens anymore but why would wheat midds move from Buffalo, NY to the midwest when there are flour mills up and down the Mississippi and along Lake Michigan?
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 09:24 AM CST
- 2
Your correct. Commodity prices do not affect your cost to move it. You still have to make x dollars to pay all expenses. And "x" above that to earn a living. It's like that in any industry. Except agriculture. It costs x per acre to put in a crop. You sell the product at x minus 20 per acre since 2014 and it's universally acceptable. Everybody deserves the opportunity to make money for working hard. But ask any bank in any rural town anywhere in the u.s. and I bet they agree that at least 50 percent of their ag customers are financially struggling for the 3rd or 4th year in a row. I could be wrong, but I would sure think that has to trickle down to every aspect of ag. Which includes freight
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 10:10 AM CST
- 3
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Hopper rates likely will not go up until ag commodity prices go up."

nail on the head right there.....finally someone who gets it.....thanks!
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 10:57 AM CST
+ 2 - 2
Nancy I've been doing this for 40 years and haven't seen it happen yet but I still have time to learn
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 12:09 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: RICK ATSMA
Quote: "Commodity prices have nothing to do with freight rates. Rates are controlled by the trucking companies. If the rates are low it is because someone is willing to haul it. If they can't find a truck to haul for their desired rate the trucker sets the rate, they need to move the load. Today most commodities are traded on freight because it's the only flexible price in the market they all have to pay the same price for the commodity."

wow, you are so wrong.
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 02:08 PM CST
+ 2 - 2
well now thats really interesting..... the price of a commodity should dictate the rates to get it hauled.......well if thats the case should'nt the price of insurance , fuel amd other operating costs fluctuate as well..... i have yet to pull into a fuel stop and tell the operator ....commodities are down today and recieve a discount as a result. in fact since the first of the year the price on several commodities moved by truck have gone down while the price of fuel has steadily gone up. seems i am caught up in a bit of a condundrum .....commodities are down so i need to lower my rate....but fuel is up...so my operating cost is up and my profit margin is down. so what do i do here lower my rate because of commodities and lose money or raise my rate to offset my additional operating cost....its just all so confusing
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 02:37 PM CST
- 2
Nancy please explain your opinion
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 03:26 PM CST
+ 2 - 2
I dont think it is unreasonable to be asking and getting $2.75 - $3.00 a mile right now on 25 ton loads. Anything less than that and I feel im just wearing out the equipment and spinning the wheels for nothing.
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 03:41 PM CST
+ 1 - 2
rate per mile as a rule of thumb should be no less than the price of fuel , at the very minimum.
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 04:06 PM CST
+ 1 - 2
Originally Posted by: KEVIN SINGLETARY
Quote: "well now thats really interesting..... the price of a commodity should dictate the rates to get it hauled.......well if thats the case should'nt the price of insurance , fuel amd other operating costs fluctuate as well..... i have yet to pull into a fuel stop and tell the operator ....commodities are down today and recieve a discount as a result. in fact since the first of the year the price on several commodities moved by truck have gone down while the price of fuel has steadily gone up. seems i am caught up in a bit of a condundrum .....commodities are down so i need to lower my rate....but fuel is up...so my operating cost is up and my profit margin is down. so what do i do here lower my rate because of commodities and lose money or raise my rate to offset my additional operating cost....its just all so confusing"

Great. Here comes the sarcastic mean comments if anybody dares to disagree with you
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 04:46 PM CST
- 2
Nobody disputes that rates Should be higher. But if I look at what I've hauled the last year,organic products payed 3-3.20 per loaded mile consistently. Organic corn is 8.50 per bushel. Conventional was 3.30. the shippers or seller has room to play with to show a profit. If the person selling the product is losing money, then rates to ship their product would be less. Again not disputing that rates need to increase.
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 08:08 PM CST
- 2
Dale if you are hauling organic it should pay more but as a regular ingredient hauler the rates are lower than they were back in the 80s. But for someone like Nancy to say that rates go higher when commodity prices go higher has no clue about the trucking industry. It's all supply and demand, high prices means not enough product to meat demand therefore less loads more empty trucks, if a saleman tells the customer that prices are going up because product supply is limited and by the way that is causing the freight price to go I don't think he would get the sale When commodity prices are low it is due to more product than demand. Freight rates need to be set by the truckers not the brokes. And the brokers don't care if they have to pay $1.50 a mile or $5.00 a mile as long as everyone charges the same but if some is willing to haul cheaper they will get the loads. Its no different than us buying fuel if the price at the pump is the same everywhere we wouldn't care where we stop by today we will drive a mile out of our way to save a dime.
Replied on Thu, May 10, 2018 at 09:02 PM CST
+ 2 - 2
if rates go up with commodity prices then why when beans were $15 a bushel was the rate the same as $4 a bushel beans? riddle me that nancy. farmers are not the only ones who need to make money in this industry. from what i have seen farmers have newer vehicles, nicer houses, and sheds for all of their equipment. if they are hurting to make ends meet it sure doesnt seem to bother them every year when they are at the dealership buying another new vehicle for themselves and the wife.
Replied on Fri, May 11, 2018 at 06:20 AM CST
- 2
What ever the answer is as to why hopper rates remain low. One thing is for certain. I'm not waiting to find out the answer! Sold the hopper last fall and hooked to a dry van. The rate per mile increase from January 2017 pulling a hopper, compared to January 2018 pulling a dry van is nothing short of phenomenal. Granted I think January 2018 dry van rates were record setting and probably will not last forever. But since going to dry van in September 2017 I have watched my revenues steadily increase, as those still pulling hopper continue to decide why their rates remain in the toilet. One thing that appears to not be as a great a factor is capacity. From reading these posts there has been a mass Exodus of guys pulling hoppers and those that remain are still not seeing better rates. What that means exactly, I don't really know. But it seems to point to the fact there is probably a multitude of reasons for the low hopper rates.
Replied on Fri, May 11, 2018 at 07:11 AM CST
- 2
Hoppers are pretty much limited on what they can haul, belt
unloaders are a much better Choice and more versatile ,
and alows you more options to what commodity to haul
Replied on Fri, May 11, 2018 at 07:39 AM CST
- 3
Originally Posted by: RICK ATSMA
Quote: "Dale if you are hauling organic it should pay more but as a regular ingredient hauler the rates are lower than they were back in the 80s. But for someone like Nancy to say that rates go higher when commodity prices go higher has no clue about the trucking industry. It's all supply and demand, high prices means not enough product to meat demand therefore less loads more empty trucks, if a saleman tells the customer that prices are going up because product supply is limited and by the way that is causing the freight price to go I don't think he would get the sale When commodity prices are low it is due to more product than demand. Freight rates need to be set by the truckers not the brokes. And the brokers don't care if they have to pay $1.50 a mile or $5.00 a mile as long as everyone charges the same but if some is willing to haul cheaper they will get the loads. Its no different than us buying fuel if the price at the pump is the same everywhere we wouldn't care where we stop by today we will drive a mile out of our way to save a dime."

I see your point. And I will agree. My opinion was due to the fact that I am pulling my hoppers 2000+ miles a week. My competition in the industry wouldn't be here if I could earn a living farming, and therefore every load I take is money out of someone else's pocket...but I will agree with your statement especially considering that rates didn't go up in 2012-13. I wasn't aware of that.

As far as farmers spending money on nice things...that's an elite few that inherited most of their land and equipment. Debt free and probably a little crooked. They are the ones with new duramax's and sweet houses...the rest of us drive a 2005 Honda pilot with 190000 miles and have a full time job asside from the farm.

I enjoyed the discussion
Replied on Fri, May 11, 2018 at 09:05 AM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: NANCY HARDER
Quote: "wow, you are so wrong."

This season the seed companies paid nearly double the freight to get the seed to the end user. Supply and demand. We all know corn and bean prices are low.
Replied on Fri, May 11, 2018 at 10:46 AM CST
- 2
So, do we just quit?
Replied on Fri, May 11, 2018 at 11:10 AM CST
+ 1 - 2
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "I see your point. And I will agree. My opinion was due to the fact that I am pulling my hoppers 2000+ miles a week. My competition in the industry wouldn't be here if I could earn a living farming, and therefore every load I take is money out of someone else's pocket...but I will agree with your statement especially considering that rates didn't go up in 2012-13. I wasn't aware of that. As far as farmers spending money on nice things...that's an elite few that inherited most of their land and equipment. Debt free and probably a little crooked. They are the ones with new duramax's and sweet houses...the rest of us drive a 2005 Honda pilot with 190000 miles and have a full time job asside from the farm. I enjoyed the discussion"

I dont know where these poor farmers are. most of the farmers i see seem to be living good lives and not struggling. but yet im supposed to haul for less because the market prices are down. the grain can either be hauled by the farmer himself or rot before i lose money.
Replied on Fri, May 11, 2018 at 11:15 AM CST
- 2
around here the rates and volume of work are directly related to the markets and their price. it is also why the hoppers have been sitting.
Replied on Fri, May 11, 2018 at 11:54 AM CST
- 2
I can have simpathy for a good customer and offer a discounted price but his misfortune is not my problem.
Replied on Fri, May 11, 2018 at 03:13 PM CST
- 2
Hopper rates won't go up until some people grow a set of balls and start telling people they can keep there poor rates!
Replied on Fri, May 11, 2018 at 04:12 PM CST
- 2
If supply and demand have anything to do with it, then it would suggest that there are too many trucks in the market, to get a decent rate. So perhaps they should eliminate the exemption for Ag products, since it appears to not be needed?
Replied on Fri, May 11, 2018 at 04:26 PM CST
- 2
I dont think we have to many trucks I think we have to many truck owners willing to haul too cheap

Replied on Fri, May 11, 2018 at 05:00 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: DAN EISCHENS
Quote: "I dont know where these poor farmers are. most of the farmers i see seem to be living good lives and not struggling. but yet im supposed to haul for less because the market prices are down. the grain can either be hauled by the farmer himself or rot before i lose money."

I didn't tell you that you have to haul for less because the farming prices are down. I offered my personal opinion about low rates
Replied on Fri, May 11, 2018 at 10:36 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "I didn't tell you that you have to haul for less because the farming prices are down. I offered my personal opinion about low rates"

Dale Hermans i never said you did! what im getting at since you dont seem to understand me is all these farms that cant afford to make ends meet but can buy new vehicles and equipment. cant pay to have the grain hauled because market prices are down. but yet they will haul 27 ton for a 1.54 a mile and tell me thats good money. and yes i have had farmers tell me in the grain and fertilizer lines they are hauling for hire at that rate. im sick of hearing the line "poor farmers" . if the farmer cant make it then he can do like the rest of us and find a different job where he can make money. thats my opinion
Replied on Fri, May 11, 2018 at 11:06 PM CST
+ 2 - 2
i have to agree with Dan. been pulling a hopper on and off for 32 yrs. , never reecieved a subsidy for a bad crop , nor a definciency payment. never got disaster relief for a flood , drought or storm......everybody wants us to haul it for what they want to pay but are quick to say,,,,, its cheaper to have it hauled because i can't do it for that. And then you got other guys out here that are hauling ingrdeients or bi-products that are crying about rates but are giving away free washouts and free mileage to and from the washouts to the brokers and shippers , and then believeing the brokers when they lay out the old...well its all included in the rate line of bull....lol
Replied on Sat, May 12, 2018 at 07:31 AM CST
+ 2 - 2
Originally Posted by: KEVIN SINGLETARY
Quote: "i have to agree with Dan. been pulling a hopper on and off for 32 yrs. , never reecieved a subsidy for a bad crop , nor a definciency payment. never got disaster relief for a flood , drought or storm......everybody wants us to haul it for what they want to pay but are quick to say,,,,, its cheaper to have it hauled because i can't do it for that. And then you got other guys out here that are hauling ingrdeients or bi-products that are crying about rates but are giving away free washouts and free mileage to and from the washouts to the brokers and shippers , and then believeing the brokers when they lay out the old...well its all included in the rate line of bull....lol"

i couldnt agree with you more kevin.
Replied on Sat, May 12, 2018 at 07:50 AM CST
- 2
If farms are getting government payments they are cheating. It means every family member and dog on the property is being listed as an active farmer and enrolled in the government CSP or equip program. They are lying if they are getting anything. Crop insurance is owned by the government...AND subsidised by the government. I've farmed since 1995. Never received a disaster relief payment. Ever. Never been given money for a bad crop, even though I purchase insurance to cover it. I've never purchased a new vehicle. And I've always had a job to support my family while chasing my dream of earning a living farming. Keep in mind 82 percent of farm program money does not go to farmers. But honestly this whole thing is a different discussion but it's my fault for bringing it up in the first place.

I agreed with you guys on alot of your points. And I agree I'd like to see your rates go up. And my trucking rates go up. I offered my opinion. You provided your counter point. I don't care how many rich farmers you know, I'm not one, and I know alot of people coming close to financial problems. Again. I agree with your points, just frustrated that the world thinks farming is just easy free money. Like you guys would be frustrated if I made that same comment about a trucker.
Replied on Sat, May 12, 2018 at 08:03 AM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "If farms are getting government payments they are cheating. It means every family member and dog on the property is being listed as an active farmer and enrolled in the government CSP or equip program. They are lying if they are getting anything. Crop insurance is owned by the government...AND subsidised by the government. I've farmed since 1995. Never received a disaster relief payment. Ever. Never been given money for a bad crop, even though I purchase insurance to cover it. I've never purchased a new vehicle. And I've always had a job to support my family while chasing my dream of earning a living farming. Keep in mind 82 percent of farm program money does not go to farmers. But honestly this whole thing is a different discussion but it's my fault for bringing it up in the first place. I agreed with you guys on alot of your points. And I agree I'd like to see your rates go up. And my trucking rates go up. I offered my opinion. You provided your counter point. I don't care how many rich farmers you know, I'm not one, and I know alot of people coming close to financial problems. Again. I agree with your points, just frustrated that the world thinks farming is just easy free money. Like you guys would be frustrated if I made that same comment about a trucker. "

you can make the same comments about trucking. ive been around tbese trucks my whole life and am from a small town where everyone knows everyone. when it comes to recieving help the farmers seem to not care who they tell what kind of help they are getting. if you know people who are about to go broke im sorry to hear that but honestly they should have gotten out before it got that far.
Replied on Sat, May 12, 2018 at 08:41 AM CST
+ 1 - 2
I get the feeling that there are a lot of people out there who are closet commie's. They think every one should be equall, and that it's not fair for some to have more than others.
Replied on Sat, May 12, 2018 at 09:39 AM CST
- 2
And I think that there are some people out there that wear tinfoil hats and believe in conspiracy theories oh hey Dave how you doing? Hey did you ever find that little green book that I was talkin about? I posted a picture of it and everything for you to make it easier
Replied on Sat, May 12, 2018 at 10:26 AM CST
+ 1 - 2
Originally Posted by: KEVIN SINGLETARY
Quote: "And I think that there are some people out there that wear tinfoil hats and believe in conspiracy theories oh hey Dave how you doing? Hey did you ever find that little green book that I was talkin about? I posted a picture of it and everything for you to make it easier"

I see that your bashing farmers and brokers now, rather than offering solutions, LOL. Speaking of tin foil hats Kevin, I see your leader Chris Spears now has a tin foil hat, as he was running around last week telling everyone that OOIDA has been sending him all sorts of nasty threats? But yet nobody from OOIDA has been charged with anything? Hymmm, looks like tin foil hat stuff to me. As for your little green book, I never said it didn't exist, I said you were simply embellishing something you read about somewhere else, but you appear to be to genetically challenged to see the distinction. Perhaps you could tell your hero Mr. Spears that it's ok to come out from under his desk now, and he should lay off the wacky tobacky ?
Replied on Sat, May 12, 2018 at 10:53 AM CST
- 3
Bashing? If um speaking up and saying that it's about time that we quit giving things away for free like mileage to and from washouts washouts and other things like that not charging the proper rates and continuing to operate the way we are if that's bashing that no my God yes I am bashing I'm not just bashing I'm bashing with a 20lb swinging wildly by all means please please please accuse me of bashing if saying that it's about time that Transportation Ryder providers well independent Transportation providers that is start getting compensated for the services they provide. And as far as mr. Spears go and as far as the ooida go either one of them it has become apparent to me that people like you they want to complain about hours of service eld's and other regulations that have been instilled Upon Us by the federal government do not want to change anything you just want to whine and cry about everything otherwise when I mentioned the little green book and challenged all you guys to find and read chapter 3 8 1 then rather than cry complain and run away like scared little girls you would have done that and then by doing that you would be more informed and more educated on how to defeat these things but you didn't what you did was nothing. You know what you get when you do nothing Dave you get nothing other than a new 10 for hat
Replied on Sat, May 12, 2018 at 11:02 AM CST
+ 1 - 2
Hopper loads are cheap because every farmer in the nation has them!
Replied on Sat, May 12, 2018 at 01:16 PM CST
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Home | Street Talk

With Truckers in Control, Money Talks and Toilets Sparkle

Image: With Truckers in Control, Money Talks and Toilets Sparkle
(Carolyn Franks/Dreamstime)

Saturday, 12 May 2018 08:42 AM

Once at the mercy of shippers, truckers now are turning the tables, thanks to surging freight demand and a shortage of drivers.

Gone are the days when customers used reliability scorecards to reject some truckers and kept others waiting for hours with no place to take a break but portable canopies and grimy restrooms. Now, companies such as Nestle SA are rushing to make drivers feel welcome. And shippers that hinder rigs from quick turnarounds or treat operators shabbily are paying a premium.

“Carriers are now starting to score shippers and receivers, and the primary way of keeping score is money,” said Cliff Finkle, vice president of Finkle Trucking, a New Jersey-based company with 250 rigs. “I’m just going to say, ‘Your place sucks, and if you really want me to go in there, I want an extra $300.’ ”

Trucking companies’ increased leverage is applying added pressure to cargo costs as accelerating economic growth bolsters transportation demand and exacerbates driver scarcity. With first-quarter trucking spot rates up 27 percent from a year earlier, according to Bloomberg Intelligence, freight expenses are crimping profits at companies from 3M Co. to General Mills Inc.

Relief isn’t in sight. The U.S. has about 280,000 fewer truck drivers than it needs, a shortfall that’s grown more than threefold from 78,000 about two years ago, according to estimates by FTR Transportation Intelligence. The dearth of available trucks got worse in April as regulators stepped up enforcement of limits on driver hours.

Such pressures have prompted customers to go the extra mile to make sure they can get drivers when they need them, whether by sprucing up break areas or taking steps to speed truck turnaround.

If shippers processed cargo more quickly, they could free up freight capacity as much as 20 percent, said Bob Costello, an economist with the American Trucking Associations trade group.

Shippers are also getting prodded by the trucking industry itself. Most freight contracts require customers to make payments if a driver is detained for more than two hours. Disputes over such payments are common, however.

“If a shipper in our network is a serial abuser of detention, we will not take their freight,” said Drew McElroy, chief executive officer of Transfix, a logistics startup. “We’re actually building our brand with the driver community at least partially around the quality of the freight and the freight experience you have.”

One way to speed up the process is to enable a driver to drop a trailer at a shipping yard and hook up another that’s already loaded, even before the first is emptied. That requires customers to provide space for parking the extra trailer and its own drivers to maneuver equipment into position.

Read more: Trucking prices set to surge as U.S. keeps tabs on drivers

Nestle boosted such drop-and-hook operations at its U.S. water unit to 61 percent last year from 57 percent in 2016, said Ken Rogers, the unit’s director of transportation. That increase along with other efforts, such as putting radio transmitters on trailers to locate them more quickly and making signage consistent across its yards, helped cut loading and unloading time by 18 percent.

“We need drivers to be driving and not looking for trailers and not waiting at locations to get unloaded or loaded,” he said. But not all Nestle facilities have the space for drop-and-hook operations, so the Swiss food and beverage giant also has made driver waiting areas more pleasant.

Nestle converted part of its Ontario, California, warehouse into a break room with restrooms, coffee, bottled water and a television. In addition to paying standard detention payments at its own locations, Nestle also sometimes pays when truckers are delayed at its customers’ facilities.

“There are definitely things you can do to partner with a carrier to stave off the spot rates,” Rogers said. “We don’t ever want to lose a carrier because they feel like they’re being abused on the receiver side.”

For shippers, the costs of improving operations pay for themselves, said Ben Cubitt, chief of engineering and procurement for Transplace, a logistics consulting firm.

“Carriers to some extent have a naughty and nice list,” he said. “If you’ve been a good partner through thick and thin, you’re definitely suffering less in this tough market than other shippers.”

© Copyright



Read Newsmax: With Truckers in Control, Money Talks and Toilets Sparkle | Newsmax.com
Important: Find Your Real Retirement Date in Minutes! More Info Here
Replied on Sat, May 12, 2018 at 01:17 PM CST
+ 1 - 2
Originally Posted by: JEFF PEARSON
Quote: " Home | Street Talk Tags: trucker | worker | demand | shipping With Truckers in Control, Money Talks and Toilets Sparkle (Carolyn Franks/Dreamstime) Saturday, 12 May 2018 08:42 AM Short URL| Email Article| Comment| Contact| Print| A A Once at the mercy of shippers, truckers now are turning the tables, thanks to surging freight demand and a shortage of drivers. Gone are the days when customers used reliability scorecards to reject some truckers and kept others waiting for hours with no place to take a break but portable canopies and grimy restrooms. Now, companies such as Nestle SA are rushing to make drivers feel welcome. And shippers that hinder rigs from quick turnarounds or treat operators shabbily are paying a premium. “Carriers are now starting to score shippers and receivers, and the primary way of keeping score is money,” said Cliff Finkle, vice president of Finkle Trucking, a New Jersey-based company with 250 rigs. “I’m just going to say, ‘Your place sucks, and if you really want me to go in there, I want an extra $300.’ ” Trucking companies’ increased leverage is applying added pressure to cargo costs as accelerating economic growth bolsters transportation demand and exacerbates driver scarcity. With first-quarter trucking spot rates up 27 percent from a year earlier, according to Bloomberg Intelligence, freight expenses are crimping profits at companies from 3M Co. to General Mills Inc. Relief isn’t in sight. The U.S. has about 280,000 fewer truck drivers than it needs, a shortfall that’s grown more than threefold from 78,000 about two years ago, according to estimates by FTR Transportation Intelligence. The dearth of available trucks got worse in April as regulators stepped up enforcement of limits on driver hours. Such pressures have prompted customers to go the extra mile to make sure they can get drivers when they need them, whether by sprucing up break areas or taking steps to speed truck turnaround. If shippers processed cargo more quickly, they could free up freight capacity as much as 20 percent, said Bob Costello, an economist with the American Trucking Associations trade group. Shippers are also getting prodded by the trucking industry itself. Most freight contracts require customers to make payments if a driver is detained for more than two hours. Disputes over such payments are common, however. “If a shipper in our network is a serial abuser of detention, we will not take their freight,” said Drew McElroy, chief executive officer of Transfix, a logistics startup. “We’re actually building our brand with the driver community at least partially around the quality of the freight and the freight experience you have.” One way to speed up the process is to enable a driver to drop a trailer at a shipping yard and hook up another that’s already loaded, even before the first is emptied. That requires customers to provide space for parking the extra trailer and its own drivers to maneuver equipment into position. Read more: Trucking prices set to surge as U.S. keeps tabs on drivers Nestle boosted such drop-and-hook operations at its U.S. water unit to 61 percent last year from 57 percent in 2016, said Ken Rogers, the unit’s director of transportation. That increase along with other efforts, such as putting radio transmitters on trailers to locate them more quickly and making signage consistent across its yards, helped cut loading and unloading time by 18 percent. “We need drivers to be driving and not looking for trailers and not waiting at locations to get unloaded or loaded,” he said. But not all Nestle facilities have the space for drop-and-hook operations, so the Swiss food and beverage giant also has made driver waiting areas more pleasant. Nestle converted part of its Ontario, California, warehouse into a break room with restrooms, coffee, bottled water and a television. In addition to paying standard detention payments at its own locations, Nestle also sometimes pays when truckers are delayed at its customers’ facilities. “There are definitely things you can do to partner with a carrier to stave off the spot rates,” Rogers said. “We don’t ever want to lose a carrier because they feel like they’re being abused on the receiver side.” For shippers, the costs of improving operations pay for themselves, said Ben Cubitt, chief of engineering and procurement for Transplace, a logistics consulting firm. “Carriers to some extent have a naughty and nice list,” he said. “If you’ve been a good partner through thick and thin, you’re definitely suffering less in this tough market than other shippers.” © Copyright Read Newsmax: With Truckers in Control, Money Talks and Toilets Sparkle | Newsmax.com Important: Find Your Real Retirement Date in Minutes! More Info Here "

WELL HERE YA GO..THEY ARE DOING IT..WHY NOT YOU?
Replied on Sat, May 12, 2018 at 04:40 PM CST
- 2
In very few cases this is true. I'm a farmer and if I have to go out on the road it's because farming I'd not paying the bills. I need to make money just like you do to feed the family.
Replied on Sat, May 12, 2018 at 07:17 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: MIKE SCHNEIDER
Quote: "In very few cases this is true. I'm a farmer and if I have to go out on the road it's because farming I'd not paying the bills. I need to make money just like you do to feed the family."

Then dont work for free.. or cheap..ever hear of NO Im not hauling it for this? Thats how the rates come up..
Replied on Sun, May 13, 2018 at 08:23 AM CST
- 2
So am I understanding correctly? The economy affects transportation rates in absolutely no way, shape or form? Competition from the railroad affects it absolutely none?? It's one hundred percent farmers like me hauling for cheap?? The last three weeks i haven't pulled a load less than 2.90 a loaded mile. What was the comment made to me when I was explaining my poor ag economy point? I think it was "if farmers are going broke it's not my problem" and also "maybe they should have gotten out of farming sooner" were those the comments? Think if I said that about your livelyhood or your passion.

We aren't hauling for cheap. Even if we were I think it's the very definition of free market capitalism. Of course I don't think anybody in this industry should get out or haul for free or cheap. Of course I care that other Americans support their family. Quit blaming farmers
Replied on Sun, May 13, 2018 at 09:53 AM CST
+ 2 - 2
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "So am I understanding correctly? The economy affects transportation rates in absolutely no way, shape or form? Competition from the railroad affects it absolutely none?? It's one hundred percent farmers like me hauling for cheap?? The last three weeks i haven't pulled a load less than 2.90 a loaded mile. What was the comment made to me when I was explaining my poor ag economy point? I think it was "if farmers are going broke it's not my problem" and also "maybe they should have gotten out of farming sooner" were those the comments? Think if I said that about your livelyhood or your passion. We aren't hauling for cheap. Even if we were I think it's the very definition of free market capitalism. Of course I don't think anybody in this industry should get out or haul for free or cheap. Of course I care that other Americans support their family. Quit blaming farmers"

when it comes down to it it really doesnt matter what job you have if its farmer, trucking, or working at McDonald's if you cant make money then yoh need to find something else to do. Do you really think i would drive this truck and break even or lose money? Really? and nobody would give a dam if i went broke or made a million dollars! as far as the blaming farms yes i have had load rates cut by farmers just because they have the truck and nothing else to do so they decided to be truckdrivers. ive seen and heard about it from guy who haul cattle, grain and even pull reefers and vans. so your quit blaming farms rant doesnt mean shit to me
Replied on Sun, May 13, 2018 at 12:32 PM CST
+ 1 - 2
How dare a farmer put his asset to work in another industry. Farmer suicide rates are the highest they've been since the great depression . That doesn't happen because of anxiety about what color boat to buy! What kind of out of line individual would diversify to earn a living. Maybe you should buy a farm to help out paying the truck depreciation??? Or maybe you should have a less expensive truck so your cost per mile is less????? No, because obviously you can't put a piece of crap on the road and expect to make money. And no, you can't just buy a farm. So I'm going to quote you again...if you can't earn a living with your truck "that's not my problem". Which OBVIOUSLY I don't think that. I hope you can earn a damn good living doing what your doing. I have nothing against you personally. I wouldn't wish bad on anyone... especially my family, which means this farmer is not leaving the trucking industry any time soon. My fuel and tires and insurance are just as expensive as yours so I gaurantee im hauling for the same rate you are.

I respect the hell out of your opinion, and am damn well not backing down from mine.
Have a good weekend


Replied on Sun, May 13, 2018 at 03:19 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "How dare a farmer put his asset to work in another industry. Farmer suicide rates are the highest they've been since the great depression . That doesn't happen because of anxiety about what color boat to buy! What kind of out of line individual would diversify to earn a living. Maybe you should buy a farm to help out paying the truck depreciation??? Or maybe you should have a less expensive truck so your cost per mile is less????? No, because obviously you can't put a piece of crap on the road and expect to make money. And no, you can't just buy a farm. So I'm going to quote you again...if you can't earn a living with your truck "that's not my problem". Which OBVIOUSLY I don't think that. I hope you can earn a damn good living doing what your doing. I have nothing against you personally. I wouldn't wish bad on anyone... especially my family, which means this farmer is not leaving the trucking industry any time soon. My fuel and tires and insurance are just as expensive as yours so I gaurantee im hauling for the same rate you are. I respect the hell out of your opinion, and am damn well not backing down from mine. Have a good weekend "

I wonder if anyone ever considers that without the farmer, there would be no grain to haul in the first place? You are correct about the suicide rate, and I have been impressed as hell how well most farmers are taking it. In the age where mass school shootings are now daily news, it's a wonder that we don't see farmers behaving the same way. It's a shame that so many people have no empathy for there fellow man nowadays. It seems that there are a lot of gripes about the rates on the bulk side of the isle these days, as everyone was expecting better rates with the ELD mandate. It appears santas bag was empty, as I predicted.
Replied on Sun, May 13, 2018 at 03:41 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "How dare a farmer put his asset to work in another industry. Farmer suicide rates are the highest they've been since the great depression . That doesn't happen because of anxiety about what color boat to buy! What kind of out of line individual would diversify to earn a living. Maybe you should buy a farm to help out paying the truck depreciation??? Or maybe you should have a less expensive truck so your cost per mile is less????? No, because obviously you can't put a piece of crap on the road and expect to make money. And no, you can't just buy a farm. So I'm going to quote you again...if you can't earn a living with your truck "that's not my problem". Which OBVIOUSLY I don't think that. I hope you can earn a damn good living doing what your doing. I have nothing against you personally. I wouldn't wish bad on anyone... especially my family, which means this farmer is not leaving the trucking industry any time soon. My fuel and tires and insurance are just as expensive as yours so I gaurantee im hauling for the same rate you are. I respect the hell out of your opinion, and am damn well not backing down from mine. Have a good weekend "

theres nothing wrong with a farmer taking his assets into another indusrty. but when they do and decide to work for little or no profit thats a problem. now they are taking work from the rest of us who are in this to make a living. thats no different then if i would raise the prices on the cash rent to take the land from a farmer. when they cut rates and work for nothing that is a problem. i never once said for you to get out of this industry. i never once said you were getting cheaper tire, insurance, ect. what i have been saying this whole time is there are farmers who cut rates and they complain because they had to take money from the farm account to keep the truck going. I never once said you were the one hauling for cheap. and yes if someone cant make a livibg farming or trucking or working at McDonald's then they need to change something. im making plenty of money. never said i wasnt.
Replied on Sun, May 13, 2018 at 10:45 PM CST
+ 1 - 2
Originally Posted by: DAN EISCHENS
Quote: "theres nothing wrong with a farmer taking his assets into another indusrty. but when they do and decide to work for little or no profit thats a problem. now they are taking work from the rest of us who are in this to make a living. thats no different then if i would raise the prices on the cash rent to take the land from a farmer. when they cut rates and work for nothing that is a problem. i never once said for you to get out of this industry. i never once said you were getting cheaper tire, insurance, ect. what i have been saying this whole time is there are farmers who cut rates and they complain because they had to take money from the farm account to keep the truck going. I never once said you were the one hauling for cheap. and yes if someone cant make a livibg farming or trucking or working at McDonald's then they need to change something. im making plenty of money. never said i wasnt."

Dan, I bet if you and dale both sat down and had a beer together, you would both find out how much you have in common, and it wouldn't surprise me if you became friends. I bet dale is the kind of guy that would give you the shirt off his back. Farmers and truckers have a common enemy, it's called Wall Street. They control how much, or little we work for. Somewhere I seen a ad that said, men in dennim built America, and men in suits desstroyed it. I couldn't agree more.
Replied on Mon, May 14, 2018 at 07:43 AM CST
- 2
Prices have nothing to do with it. If I am loaded one way and return to the same place empty 5.00 a mile. If I load back it is 2.50. Or it don’t go in the box
cargill. Coops. ADM all have a box full of monkeys who are willing to work for peanuts. Fuel surcharge is added on also
Replied on Tue, May 15, 2018 at 09:40 AM CST
- 2
I cannot speak for states other than Kansas but I believe the biggest problem is I counted 22 different companies trading grain in Western Kansas and that isn't including elevator direct business. I have been a merchandiser since 1983 and I know that when you slice the pie that many times it makes for some small slivers and the market just cannot handle that many companies trying to do what about 10 used to....
Replied on Tue, May 15, 2018 at 11:49 AM CST
+ 3 - 2
I'm not a genious, or I would be talking about a way to make a truck run off a Hydrogen/ Carbon Dioxide mixture, but the basic answer to the situation is very simple. Our trucks are regulated as too how much weight we can haul. Which is a good thing, because the way the shotty workmanship goes into building roads today, if we ran weights like they do in Canada or Australia, our trucks would be torn to pieces. Because of these weight limitations, the GROSS VALUE of ANY PRODUCT we haul is LIMITED.

The freight we haul has many end-user purposes as well as a wide range of monitary/socio-economic values. Based on where the freight your truck is pulling on any given day, falls within this WIDE RANGE of VALUES, your truck's POTENTIAL EARNINGS PER MILES are directly impacted. I remember 20 years ago, hauling $3.00 a bushel wheat and asking the shipper for a bump from 25 to 30 cents per bushel to help our trucks with bottom line. You would've thought I jacked their car, took their wallet, clothes, shoes and left them on side of road, in a snowstorm, with no cell phone. Then when i got in the flatbed side, I remember hauling hazmat special purpose products used to fight forest fires and the shipper asking me if $4 or $4.50 a mile would be enough.

I hope you see where I'm going with this and I'm certainly not trying to offend anybody. I grew up on a farm, harvested wheat, I love a good cinnamon roll as much as the next guy and certainly like bread with my sandwich. I also have the upmost respect for Forest Fire Jumpers. The fact is this, if my truck is dragging a $3000 load of wheat or a $300,000 load of SPECIALTY PRODUCTS, where do you think the BEST POTENTIAL EARNINGS for that truck would be ?? Now we can't all pull $300,000 loads all the time and the lower value freight has to get moved too.

Life is about choices. I grew up on a farm and like to haul farm products, but most of the time, my trucks can realize a much better net profit per mile pulling other trailers, hauling a diverse menu of freight. We must always remember what our Moms and Grandmothers told us too, "Son don't put all your eggs in one basket". Now, this isn't so easy in the Trucking Industry, with trailers costing an arm and leg, but striving to DIVERSIFY makes for a good approach.

We are all working in this industry on a percentage basis. So let's think about that the next time we ask ourselves, "Why does that load pay soooo bad?". Building strong relationships with honest. fair shipper/ brokers is a good practice. Lastly, but equally important, if it isn't worth much, then don't exspect to get much to move it on a REGULAR BASIS. Till you see me on here again, " KEEP THEM WHEELS ROLLIN ", unless you're workin by the hour, Lol.

Kenneth Watson
Western Trails Trucking
Replied on Tue, May 15, 2018 at 02:06 PM CST
- 2
Kenneth,

Is it the value of the product or the urgency to move it?
Replied on Tue, May 15, 2018 at 04:03 PM CST
- 2
Dean,

I have found that there are several elements of a load of freight that can and do contribute to establishing a rate on any given day. Over the past 25 years of moving all types of freight, from coast to coast and border to border, I have concluded that VALUE sets the base line for the rate, then all those other elements start to add or take away. We used to haul onions from NM to New York to go on ships for export. If the ship was getting close to it's departure date, the rates would go up dramatically.

As I stated ealier, if the freight rate (basis) is marginal to begin with, then it's difficult for those other elements to make a LASTING POSITIVE IMPACT.


Kenneth Watson
Western Trails Trucking
Replied on Tue, May 15, 2018 at 04:38 PM CST
+ 1 - 2
Not too many years ago a cereal company in Iowa paid something around $5.00 a mile to have hoppers bring oats from Canada to Iowa. The rail couldn't get it done, severe winter weather and the North Dakota oil boom. Not sure about these numbers, 52,000 lb load, 38 lbs per bushel?, 1350 bushel, $3.00 per bushel? Around $4,000.00?
Replied on Tue, May 15, 2018 at 04:46 PM CST
- 3
Originally Posted by: DEAN HUGHSON
Quote: " Not too many years ago a cereal company in Iowa paid something around $5.00 a mile to have hoppers bring oats from Canada to Iowa. The rail couldn't get it done, severe winter weather and the North Dakota oil boom. Not sure about these numbers, 52,000 lb load, 38 lbs per bushel?, 1350 bushel, $3.00 per bushel? Around $4,000.00?"

I did many many of those loads, i just thought about them with this string, in that case it has nothing to do with the value of the product. The rail lines failed the plant and Quaker was at a stand still. The oats were of value sure, but it was the plant sitting idle costing a million or so that drove the trucks.
Replied on Tue, May 15, 2018 at 05:16 PM CST
- 2
I wrote out a long post explaining my opinion on freight rates and free market capitalism. Then I realized it would just make someone mad. What we need in the freight industry is more safe spaces. Where nobody is offended.
Replied on Tue, May 15, 2018 at 06:09 PM CST
+ 1 - 2
Just quit hauling the cheap stuff. Amazing how the same topics just recycle over and over again. I guess nobody wants to run their trucking business like a business.
Replied on Tue, May 15, 2018 at 09:24 PM CST
+ 3 - 2
What should the rates be? That is a rhetorical question because there is no correct answer. Everyone's break even point is different. Do we need to go back to pricing before deregulation? Yes, I'm one of those nasty brokers, however my business doesn't operate without all of you. We quote everything at at least $2.65 per mile but rarely get it. Most of the time, way too high. I come from a farming trucking ranching background, I know how little these guys make on a bushel of wheat, the $$'s aren't there. There has to be a $ figure that works for everyone. Does anyone think all of this talk about rates would end if all rates were $4 per mile? No, not at all. Best answer, there is no answer. It is a competitive market, like everything else and will continue to be. This is why we can buy TV's computers etc much cheaper every year. There is someone out there always building a better mouse trap.
Replied on Wed, May 16, 2018 at 12:54 AM CST
+ 3 - 2
Many of you in this forum have compared hopper rates to other segments of the industry. Yet I have not read anything about hopper freight in competition with the railroad. Look what happens when something happens to the tracks and the train can't run. The rate goes way up till the tracks get fixed. Yes rates are low compared to other segments not arguing that point. Know your numbers and if the load doesn't work for your numbers then don't pull it. It's as simple as that. Unless you are dealing direct with a shipper the broker is your customer. You treat your customer well they will treat you well. Bitching about rate all day on here isn't gonna change anything. Thanks travel safe
Replied on Sun, May 20, 2018 at 08:24 PM CST
+ 3 - 1
Ounce again our reefer trucks pulled down $9,000 and $9,600 week from Monday to Friday afternoonand the guys got home to be with family and our best week for our hoppers was a $5,600 week and the poor man never got home and it took all 7 days of the week to make that. There is something very wrong with the hopper industry.
Replied on Mon, May 21, 2018 at 09:56 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: CURT VISSER
Quote: "Ounce again our reefer trucks pulled down $9,000 and $9,600 week from Monday to Friday afternoonand the guys got home to be with family and our best week for our hoppers was a $5,600 week and the poor man never got home and it took all 7 days of the week to make that. There is something very wrong with the hopper industry."

You might think about keeping those kind of numbers "under your hat". Someone else might get the idea to join in. For that kind of money it shouldn't be hard to convince the banker to dump the hopper for a reefer. "The answer to all of my problems". Some bankers don't know much about trucking but they do know numbers. And then...
Replied on Wed, May 23, 2018 at 11:12 AM CST
+ 2 - 1
Sat at that shit hole in Joslin IL for 12 hours to get loaded for a lousy $300.00 detention. This is the reason these places dont give a shit if they waste your time. This will never change until the detetion starts hitting these mega billion dollar companys pocket books. $300.00 detetion to waste 12 hours of your time is nothing.
Replied on Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 04:07 PM CST
+ 2 - 4
Rates suck for those that do not understand their value nor know how to negotiate. One will continue to chase the elusive magic rate per mile instead of taking the time to actually know what their business cost are and how much profit they should make. Until we quit griping and implement sound business practices and learn how to say NO to a loss, we will just continue to be ignorant individuals that are allowing the Market makers to establish the rates for our grain, rigs, cattle, and time. Oh, well it has been going on for a very long time and I suspect it will continue.

The strong will adapt and overcome the weak. The weak will blame the strong for being overcome. Such is the continuing cycle.
Replied on Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 09:05 PM CST
+ 4 - 1
Originally Posted by: ALFRED JORDAN
Quote: "Rates suck for those that do not understand their value nor know how to negotiate. One will continue to chase the elusive magic rate per mile instead of taking the time to actually know what their business cost are and how much profit they should make. Until we quit griping and implement sound business practices and learn how to say NO to a loss, we will just continue to be ignorant individuals that are allowing the Market makers to establish the rates for our grain, rigs, cattle, and time. Oh, well it has been going on for a very long time and I suspect it will continue. The strong will adapt and overcome the weak. The weak will blame the strong for being overcome. Such is the continuing cycle."

Wow you really have it figured out....I have my note pad ready, explain to me specifically what I can do to get a better price for my grain and my beef?? I'd love to hear it. If you say quit doing it, or quit doing it for cheap I'm going to assume you truly don't know what your talking about
Replied on Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 10:05 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Wow you really have it figured out....I have my note pad ready, explain to me specifically what I can do to get a better price for my grain and my beef?? I'd love to hear it. If you say quit doing it, or quit doing it for cheap I'm going to assume you truly don't know what your talking about"

Alfred is saying sometimes we need to change the way we are doing it. We can't change commodity price real easily but we can make changes in agronomy, accounting, the people we choose to do business with and the people we just choose to be around and changing ourselves to learn new things and become better savers and better savy math smart and street smart people to work less and mke more
Replied on Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 11:33 AM CST
Because the Mexicans under cut every one
Replied on Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 10:57 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Wow you really have it figured out....I have my note pad ready, explain to me specifically what I can do to get a better price for my grain and my beef?? I'd love to hear it. If you say quit doing it, or quit doing it for cheap I'm going to assume you truly don't know what your talking about"

You are so right. I am just a stupid guy that runs his business on profit margins. I have come to realize just how stupid I really am, I am really effing stupid, I tell ya.

I have no idea what your cost to run your business is, that is yours and yours alone. I do know this that every business has a cost to operate and should establish a projected profit margin in order to stay in business. I do know this that farmers, ranchers, and truckers keep allowing others to establish the rates for their business. I guess we should all go to the local store and start telling them what we want to pay for the items on the shelves. But then again what do I know let us remember that I am effing stupid.
Replied on Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 11:36 AM CST
lmao
Replied on Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 01:58 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: ALFRED JORDAN
Quote: "You are so right. I am just a stupid guy that runs his business on profit margins. I have come to realize just how stupid I really am, I am really effing stupid, I tell ya. I have no idea what your cost to run your business is, that is yours and yours alone. I do know this that every business has a cost to operate and should establish a projected profit margin in order to stay in business. I do know this that farmers, ranchers, and truckers keep allowing others to establish the rates for their business. I guess we should all go to the local store and start telling them what we want to pay for the items on the shelves. But then again what do I know let us remember that I am effing stupid."

Tell me how to go about establishing prices i desire with the Chicago board of trade for ag??? Note book is still out
Replied on Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 02:01 PM CST
It's great to listen to people who have zero ag experience tell me how to do it
Replied on Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 02:43 PM CST
I also don't think your stupid, but I gaurantee a professional truck driver will laugh at advise from an average car driver....same goes here

So what's the deal, us farmers are all just a symbol from american gothic? Just me and ma and a pitchfork? No, we use Excel for expenses just like you. We understand profit just as well as an accountant. Same with expenses. The best suit and tie business person would struggle in ag now too.
Replied on Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 02:46 PM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "It's great to listen to people who have zero ag experience tell me how to do it"

Your assumption is the same as many out there. I don't farm so I must not understand the process of farming or how to run a farm. Whether I grew up working on a farm or not does not matter to you. I am not here to tell you what crop to grow, what critter to raise, what equipment you should use on your farm or ranch. That is your choice.

Any business model including AG involves line item allocations for cost and then your establish your profit according to what the market will bear. If you are inefficient in your business practices and can not make the profit that you desire, you either shave down your cost or find another widget to sell. Pretty simple in the grand scheme of things. Only you can control if you sell your widget at a loss or not, I have no ability to do that for you. If you are not running your business according to these practices then what advice do I have to give?
Replied on Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 02:49 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "It's great to listen to people who have zero ag experience tell me how to do it"

Don't forget that I am EFFING STUPID!!!
Replied on Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 02:57 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "I also don't think your stupid, but I gaurantee a professional truck driver will laugh at advise from an average car driver....same goes here So what's the deal, us farmers are all just a symbol from american gothic? Just me and ma and a pitchfork? No, we use Excel for expenses just like you. We understand profit just as well as an accountant. Same with expenses. The best suit and tie business person would struggle in ag now too. "

Your business is very tough to call. You must be able to successfully predict which crop or critter you are going to raise. Hope that the market does not get over flooded with that product as well. Then you have the complexities of the weather conditions that you can not control either. Then you have the floating fuel cost that effect you the same as the trucker. Now through into the factor other supplies needed that seem to go up year after year to plant or harvest. Take the fact that the equipment cost have gone up year after year, parts are getting higher each year, labor cost are also going up. Oh shit this looks very similar to trucking to me. You mean to tell me that the farmers, ranchers, and the truckers are all expected to continue to take losses for the rest of the country?

WHY ARE THE FARMERS, RANCHERS, AND TRUCKERS FIGHTING???? We all need each other, I for one think we need to be cautious in attacking one another. This is what the Mega Corporations desire. As long as we continue to fight and bicker among each other instead of working together, they will continue to win at the rate game. Basic business practices do not fail unless the business as a whole is failing.
Replied on Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 04:37 PM CST
Originally Posted by: ALFRED JORDAN
Quote: "Your business is very tough to call. You must be able to successfully predict which crop or critter you are going to raise. Hope that the market does not get over flooded with that product as well. Then you have the complexities of the weather conditions that you can not control either. Then you have the floating fuel cost that effect you the same as the trucker. Now through into the factor other supplies needed that seem to go up year after year to plant or harvest. Take the fact that the equipment cost have gone up year after year, parts are getting higher each year, labor cost are also going up. Oh shit this looks very similar to trucking to me. You mean to tell me that the farmers, ranchers, and the truckers are all expected to continue to take losses for the rest of the country? WHY ARE THE FARMERS, RANCHERS, AND TRUCKERS FIGHTING???? We all need each other, I for one think we need to be cautious in attacking one another. This is what the Mega Corporations desire. As long as we continue to fight and bicker among each other instead of working together, they will continue to win at the rate game. Basic business practices do not fail unless the business as a whole is failing."

I tell ya what. I don't want to start a fight with trucking...I HAVE A TRUCKING COMPANY.

But when someone stands on a pedestal and says something like a better business plan will cure a troubled economy such as Ag....it drives me insane. No I can't just quit doing it....I have to continue doing it for cheap. Number one, if a farmer liquidates everything and leaves the industry during a recession, how do you pay for that??? Sell the equipment at a fraction of what you owe??? Hopefully a banker will term that debt out for 10 years or a day job won't make the payments. Same for a trucking fleet. You can't just get out. You can't just quit.

And what drives me more insane is the comment about the weak getting overcome by the strong. Just because a person inherits opportunities or inherits wealth, doesn't make them an awesome business person. It gives them a better chance of surviving tough times. And better opportunity for profit. Doesn't make them any less deserving, but they are all that are surviving in my industry.

And no, I can't decide what crops to raise on Monday because those projections look promising, then plant on Tuesday and hope for the best. We are limited by mother nature and soil types. So no, I really don't want to hear it from you . NOT BECAUSE I THINK YOU ARE STUPID, but because you don't understand the complexities as well as you think you do.

No Alfred I don't think you are stupid. At no point did I indicate that.
Replied on Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 04:56 PM CST
Id be willing to bet you are definitely a better business planer than me. But I also bet if you took over my farm today, you'd struggle just as much.


Replied on Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 06:05 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Id be willing to bet you are definitely a better business planer than me. But I also bet if you took over my farm today, you'd struggle just as much. "

Same problems but just another field brother. I have to make the same type of choices that you make. To take over a failing business instead of letting it fade away is not a good choice. I agree with you that when we get too much time, emotions, and skin in the game it is very hard for us stupid and stubborn folks to give up. Now you will understand why I am stating that I am so stupid.

The strong indeed will overcome the weak, that is just the way it is. I am not the one to come up with that concept, that is the natural order of things in our lives. You and I have seen this most likely more times than we care to admit. I hope that those of us that are strong adapt and overcome. I hope that we think outside the Corporate America box and start realizing that we can possibly quit making the same errors as our fathers (mine made quite a few). I hope that we can quit bickering about who has the biggest and the baddest of whatever and realize that we are all experiencing the same things, just at different times, places, and environments.

This cycle seems to continue on and on. It will continue to plod along until you either overcome it or just give up.
Replied on Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 06:29 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: ALFRED JORDAN
Quote: "Same problems but just another field brother. I have to make the same type of choices that you make. To take over a failing business instead of letting it fade away is not a good choice. I agree with you that when we get too much time, emotions, and skin in the game it is very hard for us stupid and stubborn folks to give up. Now you will understand why I am stating that I am so stupid. The strong indeed will overcome the weak, that is just the way it is. I am not the one to come up with that concept, that is the natural order of things in our lives. You and I have seen this most likely more times than we care to admit. I hope that those of us that are strong adapt and overcome. I hope that we think outside the Corporate America box and start realizing that we can possibly quit making the same errors as our fathers (mine made quite a few). I hope that we can quit bickering about who has the biggest and the baddest of whatever and realize that we are all experiencing the same things, just at different times, places, and environments. This cycle seems to continue on and on. It will continue to plod along until you either overcome it or just give up."

I will agree with those statements. One hundred percent. Emotions will dig us into a hole. I personally have zero intentions of quitting ag. I'm going to keep fighting for AG .

Thank goodness for stubborn people like us
Replied on Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 06:48 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "I will agree with those statements. One hundred percent. Emotions will dig us into a hole. I personally have zero intentions of quitting ag. I'm going to keep fighting for AG . Thank goodness for stubborn people like us"

You like me will find where you need to make your adaptations. I just realized that I myself was being stubborn and stupid on a simple thing for my business. I went and reviewed what I was doing wrong and am implementing a new strategy to make our team more successful. It will involve getting rid of the weak and keeping the strong, I hate to have to be that way but at the end of the day profit is profit.

I wish all the best of luck in their business practices. Look for ways to streamline and become just a tad more efficient. Remember that the Market Makers are against us, they are out trying to make all the profit they can for their shareholders. The commodities board should not be controlled by Coporate America but neither should the politicians. This is the chess board that we are playing with. Each move that we make may either make us more profitable or may put us out of our business.

Whether you are a farmer, rancher, or trucker, we all are passionate about what we do for a living. We all understand that we have good times and bad times. It just seems that the board is rigged against us from the onset of the game. I grew up poor with nothing and know what is like to have nothing. If I had to start over again it would suck, but sometimes that is how the game is played. I could get pissed at the other side for being better at playing the game or I can just learn and get better at playing the game myself.

Adapt and overcome is the way I think. There is no task that can not be accomplished you just must find the best way to accomplish that task as profitably as possible for you and your operation.