Home > Forum > Say No To Cheap Freight!

Say no to cheap freight!

Oct 04, 2017 at 11:37 PM CST
- 3
Why do all this brokers try to pay so cheap.... I'd like to know what's a fair rate being charged by the mile. Now with the elogs shouldn't we charge more for every freight?
Replied on Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 08:22 AM CST
+ 7
You can blame brokers all you want for cheap rates,but when we get offered loads at $1.20/mi from the shipper I say no rather loudly then explain to the shipper that fuel is up over 43 cents from last year. He will bemoan the fact that there are no trucks out there to haul his load but yet he won't put any money on the load. Next thing I hear is from a CARRIER that took that cheap load wanting me to get him out of the area that load delivered in. Who is to blame.....I am guessing the CARRIER has as much blame as anyone because the CARRIER hauled the silly thing. If CARRIERS keep hauling these cheap loads and underbidding rates, then rates will never get to where they should be. CARRIERS need to know what it costs them to run and what it takes to make a profit for the truck. Just because your wheels are turning doesn't mean you are making a profit.
Replied on Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 08:51 AM CST
+ 1 - 4
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "You can blame brokers all you want for cheap rates,but when we get offered loads at $1.20/mi from the shipper I say no rather loudly then explain to the shipper that fuel is up over 43 cents from last year. He will bemoan the fact that there are no trucks out there to haul his load but yet he won't put any money on the load. Next thing I hear is from a CARRIER that took that cheap load wanting me to get him out of the area that load delivered in. Who is to blame.....I am guessing the CARRIER has as much blame as anyone because the CARRIER hauled the silly thing. If CARRIERS keep hauling these cheap loads and underbidding rates, then rates will never get to where they should be. CARRIERS need to know what it costs them to run and what it takes to make a profit for the truck. Just because your wheels are turning doesn't mean you are making a profit."

Duane I respectfully disagree. SOME brokers take everything that is offered to them at whatever rate is offered and just try to make a buck off of the top of more. There are brokerage companies out there that dispatch trucks that I know first hand skim off of the top and then take their dispatch pecentage out of what's left also. We keep our rates high enough so we can stay in business! I have bounced my trucks past cheap freight to get better paying loads. It is my beleif that this is not a one headed monster. Both carriers and brokers alike need to hold their ground on rates to insure that everyone can make a living. The new batch of owner operators that I have seen come down the pike as of late really has no clue as to how much it takes to operate their equipment! The norm for figuring out if it is a good week is if at the end of the week there is a decent amount left over after expenses fo pay themselves, then they made money. That is not a good way to do things. One blown tire, repair on truck or trailer and the weeks profit is gone. If it is a major repair the whole years rpofit could be gone.

In closing I totally agree with you that the carriers hauling the cheap freight are a big part of the rates being low, but I also think NEW brokers are also a problem as they want their little off the top and don't hold the shipper to a fair rate. I know this is true as I have had TQL call me for rates out of our home area and then go behind us to cut us on our own loads. We have retained these loads because we provide good service and have the rolling stock to make it happen, not just a computer and a phone system.

Have a great day all! Be safe and profitable!

Replied on Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 09:04 AM CST
+ 6
Originally Posted by: ED MCCONNELL
Quote: "Duane I respectfully disagree. SOME brokers take everything that is offered to them at whatever rate is offered and just try to make a buck off of the top of more. There are brokerage companies out there that dispatch trucks that I know first hand skim off of the top and then take their dispatch pecentage out of what's left also. We keep our rates high enough so we can stay in business! I have bounced my trucks past cheap freight to get better paying loads. It is my beleif that this is not a one headed monster. Both carriers and brokers alike need to hold their ground on rates to insure that everyone can make a living. The new batch of owner operators that I have seen come down the pike as of late really has no clue as to how much it takes to operate their equipment! The norm for figuring out if it is a good week is if at the end of the week there is a decent amount left over after expenses fo pay themselves, then they made money. That is not a good way to do things. One blown tire, repair on truck or trailer and the weeks profit is gone. If it is a major repair the whole years rpofit could be gone. In closing I totally agree with you that the carriers hauling the cheap freight are a big part of the rates being low, but I also think NEW brokers are also a problem as they want their little off the top and don't hold the shipper to a fair rate. I know this is true as I have had TQL call me for rates out of our home area and then go behind us to cut us on our own loads. We have retained these loads because we provide good service and have the rolling stock to make it happen, not just a computer and a phone system. Have a great day all! Be safe and profitable! "

We are saying pretty much the same thing just getting to the same point by a different route. Yeah there are brokers that will offer anything and everything out there. I am not one of them. I have had similiar experiences with TQL and a few other 3pl's offering me my own loads and a rather substantial discount. No one in there right mind would haul that but i have lost several loads due to that. There is no loyalty out there anymore, service means nothing, bottom line is king. I understand the concept of profitability but what carrier in their right mind will haul for $1.20/mi? Yet I see this happening day after day after day. If the carrier won't haul it, rates will have to come up. It is actually in the carriers hands to set rates. You have the equipment to move the material, as a broker I don't. Without my carriers there is no need for me to be here. I would really like to find out who is hauling for $1.20/mi and why, because it makes no sense to me. I have bounced my guys some wild distances from time to time to get to a load that will put us back on track to profitability. I also work my commissions around quite a bit to make sure that my guys are treated fairly. Take care Sir, maintain your profitability and may we both knock heads again another day.
Replied on Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 09:12 AM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "We are saying pretty much the same thing just getting to the same point by a different route. Yeah there are brokers that will offer anything and everything out there. I am not one of them. I have had similiar experiences with TQL and a few other 3pl's offering me my own loads and a rather substantial discount. No one in there right mind would haul that but i have lost several loads due to that. There is no loyalty out there anymore, service means nothing, bottom line is king. I understand the concept of profitability but what carrier in their right mind will haul for $1.20/mi? Yet I see this happening day after day after day. If the carrier won't haul it, rates will have to come up. It is actually in the carriers hands to set rates. You have the equipment to move the material, as a broker I don't. Without my carriers there is no need for me to be here. I would really like to find out who is hauling for $1.20/mi and why, because it makes no sense to me. I have bounced my guys some wild distances from time to time to get to a load that will put us back on track to profitability. I also work my commissions around quite a bit to make sure that my guys are treated fairly. Take care Sir, maintain your profitability and may we both knock heads again another day."

Duane there is not a doubt in my mind that we both will survive this down turn in the market. Our customers know that if we can not make money we are just going to stay home. They pay us for our reliablility and above that the accessability from the office staff to answer any and all questions about a particular load. . I believ you are right in your analysis in this post! I work with many GREAT brokers and the rest I just pass by when I see the company name.

Great conversation and well spoken! Always a pleasure!

Keith
ET Trucking
Replied on Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 09:17 AM CST
+ 2
The shipper can't give you what he does not have. Most of these businesses operate on a narrow profit margin, just like us. They are competing in a global market. I expect the situation to get worse, as we enter a trade war, renegotiating NAFTA....The ELD cannot fix that....Trucking is about as screwed up as health care, and soon the government will be running both of them.
Replied on Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 09:24 AM CST
+ 1 - 1

Jamie and Duane, I am a broker for TQL. I'm currently have four loads in Minot ND that have to move on Saturday 10/7 for delivery in Caldwell ID on Monday 10/9. I posted up rates. Instead of bulk haulers calling in for more information or to counter offer rates, I've had over 200 views to the post and two thumbs down from my forum post. I am not looking to get into the bulk world and I am not trying to take business from carriers' existing customers. I only move bulk loads 3-5 times a year at my customers request. Normally I run reefer freight. My customer and I have negotiated a rate of $2800 per load on these four. So truck rate of $2600 was posted. Heck that is $2.38 per mile or $87 per ton.

Generally speaking flatbed, dry van and reefer carriers will call in on loads to discuss rates. I'm not seeing that with the bulk community. I try to be easy to work with and am willing to go back to the customer to renegotiate the rate based on capacity and fuel prices. I can't do this without a starting point.

Thanks for reading my rant. If you know of anyone willing to discuss this freight please point them in my direction.
Melissa
[email protected]
800-580-3101 ext 54808

Replied on Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 09:38 AM CST
Originally Posted by: MELISSA JOHNSON
Quote: " Jamie and Duane, I am a broker for TQL. I'm currently have four loads in Minot ND that have to move on Saturday 10/7 for delivery in Caldwell ID on Monday 10/9. I posted up rates. Instead of bulk haulers calling in for more information or to counter offer rates, I've had over 200 views to the post and two thumbs down from my forum post. I am not looking to get into the bulk world and I am not trying to take business from carriers' existing customers. I only move bulk loads 3-5 times a year at my customers request. Normally I run reefer freight. My customer and I have negotiated a rate of $2800 per load on these four. So truck rate of $2600 was posted. Heck that is $2.38 per mile or $87 per ton. Generally speaking flatbed, dry van and reefer carriers will call in on loads to discuss rates. I'm not seeing that with the bulk community. I try to be easy to work with and am willing to go back to the customer to renegotiate the rate based on capacity and fuel prices. I can't do this without a starting point. Thanks for reading my rant. If you know of anyone willing to discuss this freight please point them in my direction. Melissa [email protected] 800-580-3101 ext 54808"

Melissa, a large part of why you see such a chilly reception on the bulk world is because of the dealings we have had with Tql in the past. That has been well documented on this forum over the past couple of years. I have had TQL agents call me and pass themselves off as someone else in order to try to get loads that I have had posted. One of your agents told me " the reason we bid the rates so cheap is so we can get you brokers out of the way. Then once we get our foot in the door we can raise the rates to where they should be." You may gather that left a rather sour taste and a very low regard for TQL. I do not intend to get into another discussion over the merits or lack there of with TQL. It should be sufficient to say that we do not see eye to eye in our business philosophies and I am guessing that we never will.
Replied on Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 09:47 AM CST
Thank you for your reply Duane. I tried to call, your phone number 308-493-5330 but it is disconnected. I understand your point, whomever gave you that infomation wasn't considering that without carriers, brokers don't have jobs. Shippers and 3PL's better have their eyes WIDE OPEN to the ELD Mandate, for the tables are shifting in the favor of carriers at this very moment. An anticipated 5%-7% truck capacity will be lost overnight in December 2018. I have to work even harder to convince customers that capacity rules and that trucks are naming their rate.
Replied on Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 09:48 AM CST
correction DECEMBER 2017
Replied on Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 09:55 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: MELISSA JOHNSON
Quote: "Thank you for your reply Duane. I tried to call, your phone number 308-493-5330 but it is disconnected. I understand your point, whomever gave you that infomation wasn't considering that without carriers, brokers don't have jobs. Shippers and 3PL's better have their eyes WIDE OPEN to the ELD Mandate, for the tables are shifting in the favor of carriers at this very moment. An anticipated 5%-7% truck capacity will be lost overnight in December 2018. I have to work even harder to convince customers that capacity rules and that trucks are naming their rate."

ok it is official....my phone number on bulk loads is now what it should be.
Replied on Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 10:40 AM CST
Originally Posted by: MELISSA JOHNSON
Quote: " Jamie and Duane, I am a broker for TQL. I'm currently have four loads in Minot ND that have to move on Saturday 10/7 for delivery in Caldwell ID on Monday 10/9. I posted up rates. Instead of bulk haulers calling in for more information or to counter offer rates, I've had over 200 views to the post and two thumbs down from my forum post. I am not looking to get into the bulk world and I am not trying to take business from carriers' existing customers. I only move bulk loads 3-5 times a year at my customers request. Normally I run reefer freight. My customer and I have negotiated a rate of $2800 per load on these four. So truck rate of $2600 was posted. Heck that is $2.38 per mile or $87 per ton. Generally speaking flatbed, dry van and reefer carriers will call in on loads to discuss rates. I'm not seeing that with the bulk community. I try to be easy to work with and am willing to go back to the customer to renegotiate the rate based on capacity and fuel prices. I can't do this without a starting point. Thanks for reading my rant. If you know of anyone willing to discuss this freight please point them in my direction. Melissa [email protected] 800-580-3101 ext 54808"

Mellisa I am with Duane on this one! I too have had dealings with TQL agents who have called inquiring about loads in our area, ask for rates and then bid them lower. It is personal experience not just bashing of a company! Another example of TQL ineptness, I called on a load out of texas to Goodland Ks. Bulk confection sunflowers and as I was speaking to the agent I realized that he had no clue what was going on. to move on a per hundred weight basis. After figuring the rate out to what it should be for the agent, he began to tell me that I was wrong. He said to figure out by the CWT that since the lane paid 1.50/mi on the move you would take the amount of CWT times 1.50 and that would give you the total the load would pay. Had this been a 100 mile load I would have hauled as many as I could as fast as I could before he got a brain but since the load was around 900 miles is came out to about .75/mi the way he had things figured out.

I have been in this business for over 30 years and have NEVER made a call or recieved a call without having a clue of the concept of my job! Maybe not all TQL agents are that way but the ones that are make a bad name for the rest of you. Just like in trucking!

Replied on Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 10:55 AM CST
+ 2

I took Duane's advice. Re-negotiated rate with customer. Now have the rates on the ND loads at $2800, $93 a ton or $2.56 per mile to the truck. Let me know if you have anyone who can pick up for me this weekend. I hope after talking with me and seeing my rates, I can be a broker who is seen as fair.

Replied on Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 04:16 PM CST
+ 1 - 1
Originally Posted by: MELISSA JOHNSON
Quote: " I took Duane's advice. Re-negotiated rate with customer. Now have the rates on the ND loads at $2800, $93 a ton or $2.56 per mile to the truck. Let me know if you have anyone who can pick up for me this weekend. I hope after talking with me and seeing my rates, I can be a broker who is seen as fair."

And yet you are still $1.00 per mile short.
Replied on Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 04:45 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "ok it is official....my phone number on bulk loads is now what it should be."

Bahahah !!
Replied on Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:20 AM CST
Originally Posted by: TROY JEFFERS
Quote: "Bahahah !!"

I keep hearing about this really cool ride you are building. How is it coming along. Haven't heard from you in awhile.
Replied on Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:34 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "You can blame brokers all you want for cheap rates,but when we get offered loads at $1.20/mi from the shipper I say no rather loudly then explain to the shipper that fuel is up over 43 cents from last year. He will bemoan the fact that there are no trucks out there to haul his load but yet he won't put any money on the load. Next thing I hear is from a CARRIER that took that cheap load wanting me to get him out of the area that load delivered in. Who is to blame.....I am guessing the CARRIER has as much blame as anyone because the CARRIER hauled the silly thing. If CARRIERS keep hauling these cheap loads and underbidding rates, then rates will never get to where they should be. CARRIERS need to know what it costs them to run and what it takes to make a profit for the truck. Just because your wheels are turning doesn't mean you are making a profit."

COVERED!!!!!!!
Replied on Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:44 AM CST
+ 1
Good morning all,

I'd like to follow up on this topic. I am also a broker for TQL. On behalf of our company, I'd like to first say thank you to all of the truckers here. If it weren't for you, I wouldn't be able to feed my family and pay my bills. We need you just as you need us. Countless times I have provided loads for carriers that are "stuck" in loose areas and that need to get home. Every broker runs their account differently, however, I am very respectful and appreciative to all of the carriers I work with. At the same time, we have depended on you in the tightest of areas.

My point is...The market has been in the shipper's corner since the end of 2014. It is shifting back in our favor, and yes, if the ELD mandate does in fact take place in December, of course rates will continue to rise. The monthly fees and initial purchase of the ELD can threaten profits, therefore you need more money on every load.

Lastly, TQL is an incredibly large corporation. You may run into certain brokers that aren't the best, but that should not tilt your opinion on the company as a whole. The vast majority of us are honest, hard working middle class people just trying to make a living like everyone else.

I hope you all have a great day. Let's attack this market!

-Tommy
[email protected]
Replied on Sat, Oct 07, 2017 at 06:33 PM CST
I think I have explained my thoughts and experiences with TQL more than most on this forum. It's the red flag in front of the bull scenario. I really don't think I could ever bring myself to haul for TQL.

Art Pfluger