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Seed and Farm Supply. Liberal,Mo

Feb 25, 2016 at 12:17 AM CST
+ 1 - 1
Anyone other than me, does this guy treat you fairly? Seems like he needed help on some ammonia,ran ammonia over the weekend for him, we were 3.00 a ton over what he normally pays the other carriers, now he cuts us off because of the exorbitant rate we are charging. And then we sat 5 hours to get a load, charged demurrage, and he's not going to pay it!!!! What a jerk!!!!! I don't give a dam if we ever haul a load for this guy again.. 3.00 dollars on a 20 ton load. exorbitant. Weekend work. Really?
Replied on Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 05:33 AM CST
I was headed west on 36 yesterday and one of your trucks eased by me. I hope that guy knows you don't keep your trucks looking that way for 3.00 on a 20 ton load. Weekend work,, anybody else gets overtime, which should be 1 1/2 times, so unless your normal rate is 6.00, he got by cheap.

PLUS, we all know he passed that cost on to the farmer.
Replied on Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 11:22 AM CST
He does have the absolute nicest, cleanest trucks on the road, in missouri
Replied on Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM CST
Thanks Jason.
Replied on Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 12:22 PM CST
You bet he did, and that farmer didn't gripe, let's see....... 3.00 a ton..... 20 ton load produces 32000 bushels of corn, extra 60.00 on 32000 bushels. That guy.....makes you scratch your head. But that 5000 acre farmer was glad to get that load, I bet. Sometimes you have to put things into perspective, and just go on. That guy doesn't realize it cost me 100000 that one summer awhile back to get that exemption we have now on ag products,now those other carriers can run his ammonia out of Pryor Oklahoma on that exemption and those drivers can live like a regular human being, don't have to worry about fuelings , stop and eat a healthy meal, rest when he feels like it and so forth.and Mr. Bunton can get his ammonia.
Replied on Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 06:03 PM CST
+ 1 - 1
There are two sides to most stories. I communicated with Mr Huellinghof about his rates which were $10 per ton higher than what two other well known and reputable NH3 haulers were charging me for the exact same deliveries. He chose to come to this site instead of replying to me. We have been in business over 30 years, I can provide numerous trucking companies that would provide good recommendations for our firm, whether NH3 deliveries, dry fertilizer, steel, grain, etc.

We have never been charged "wait times" and I asked several of the brokers who we purchase from and they do not pay those charges either. The broker who recommended Huellinghof said he was charged the normal rate for a load that was hauled for them by the same driver I was working with on the Saturday in question, yet my rate was substantially higher.

As my father told me, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I am sorry that Huellinghof felt compelled to go public with his feelings instead of contacting me directly.

And as a matter of good faith, I went ahead and let his driver haul another load that I had committed to because it was not fair to cut the driver off who was not party to the rates charged. But of the drivers I worked with were excellent and represented their company very well!

Martin Bunton, president, Seed and Farm Supply.
Replied on Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 07:11 PM CST
Martin- you FAILED to respond if he had to wait 5hrs to get loaded or not? You essentially wasted half of his drivers day, he probably had to pay his driver, fuel to the truck etc. If Jason says he's a reputable company thats good enough for me. I'm guessing YOU called him to haul your load? Pay the man and MOVE ON.
Replied on Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 06:26 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: MARTIN BUNTON
Quote: "There are two sides to most stories. I communicated with Mr Huellinghof about his rates which were $10 per ton higher than what two other well known and reputable NH3 haulers were charging me for the exact same deliveries. He chose to come to this site instead of replying to me. We have been in business over 30 years, I can provide numerous trucking companies that would provide good recommendations for our firm, whether NH3 deliveries, dry fertilizer, steel, grain, etc. We have never been charged "wait times" and I asked several of the brokers who we purchase from and they do not pay those charges either. The broker who recommended Huellinghof said he was charged the normal rate for a load that was hauled for them by the same driver I was working with on the Saturday in question, yet my rate was substantially higher. As my father told me, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I am sorry that Huellinghof felt compelled to go public with his feelings instead of contacting me directly. And as a matter of good faith, I went ahead and let his driver haul another load that I had committed to because it was not fair to cut the driver off who was not party to the rates charged. But of the drivers I worked with were excellent and represented their company very well! Martin Bunton, president, Seed and Farm Supply. "

Mr. Bunton, first of all, please know that I have no dog in this fight. I'm just setting on the sideline.

You are somewhat correct in that there are more sides to a story. Having raised some children and having worked with the public some I find there are typically three sides to each story. What one side saw happen, what the other side saw happen and then what really happened.

One side tells of a $3.00 increase and the other side tells of $10.00 So, what really happened? Was it $10.00 more than you wanted to pay? Was it $3.00 to high. Were the other trucks hauling it 7-10 dollars to cheap?

If you are coming on here to clear this up, my first question would be; Did you know the rate prior to his bringing the load over? If you did know the rate, there is no "fool me once". If you did not know the rate and I had to guess, purely a guess mind you, I would guess that with this being delivered on a weekend, you needed the product. If that is the case and you just needed it at most any resonable cost, why are all of us wasting time on this. This adds up to somewhere between $60 and $200 bucks.

Please don't try to make anybody think you lost money on this deal, you either passed the cost on or you just didn't make as much as you thought you should. Which brings me to the 5 hours of waiting. About the only thing both of you agree on. If you would, please explain to me why a truck / driver should be expected to set 5 hours? That is nearly 1/2 of the drivers alloted time to drive. If that truck / driver had just one other load to do that day, setting at your place killed that deal. You say you have been in business over 30 years and if you employ people you should understand that concept. Do you send a truck out to a farm and let the truck / driver spend 5 hours there and not charge for it? I guess both you and the driver didn't make as much as either one of you thought you should / would.
Replied on Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 07:39 AM CST
+ 5
I had a guy call me and ask me for a truck one time, I had just got back to the house from Houston and was getting ready to go out with my wife. He stated that he really needed my truck. I explained to him that I had plans, he offered my $3 per mile, I said no thanks. He offered $4 per mile, once again no thanks. He finally asked what would it cost? I said $10 per mile to go back to Houston or let's just call it an even $8000.00. He agreed, crazy as this may sound, I thought so as well and told him I wanted the cash deposited in my bank before I fired up the truck. It took him about 30 minutes to get the money transferred over, I told my wife, she said she would reschedule out date for when I got back from Houston. Went to the pick up and it took them about 6 hours to load me (they were still making the product). Headed to Houston, delivered the next day ( had to call the small receiver and wait on him and his folks to arrive to unload another 5 hours). Finished up went to a local hotel got a good nights rest and deadheaded home.


Moral of the story for both sides:

When you need something really done don't bitch about the price.

When you are getting paid what you asked for and you know it is very good, don't bitch about the time.
Replied on Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 09:36 PM CST
You hit the nail on the head
Replied on Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 04:04 PM CST
Here is why probably really happened. Mike was probably $3 a ton higher than Martin wanted to be on his margins and his brokers were probably $10 a ton cheaper than Mike, so all said in done remember now Martin still gave him #'s and Mike knowing there was lines I am sure knowing him informed him of the detention Martin at the time was just wanting loads in his tank with farmers down his throat about wanting there smoke. So Mike bailed him out and then apparently Martin thought he would gripe about it to no luck of winning apparently. He may not of passed it on to the farmer because probably already had a contract with them but if not was not going to make the farmer mad and risk not only losing the anhydrous sale but along with his chemicals and dry fertilzer products. When comes to demurrage with the lines anymore I'm also going to say there is no one who is not paying detention it is part of the game now or they will not get the trucks. Comes down to quality of service and just like anything you get what you pay for. So when you see them fancy sharp Huellinghoff trucks rolling up and down the road and into their customer they are there when supposed to be and they have the product and yes that kind of service and quality going to cost you versus when your cheaper guys ragged out columbia rolls in with a rusted crappy looking bottle 4 hours late because he lost one of his Dayton wheel rims on the county road turn your going to be calling Mike or myself to help you save grace with your customer. If not we will continue to keep the smart fertilizer down the street with while he takes your customers while you wait on saving that $60 a load on a normal 20 ton load. So all said and done Mike keep them rolling and look sharp because them tow Huellinghoff brothers didn't get to where they are hauling or worrying about a customer like this. Loyalty is the name of the game
Replied on Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 07:30 PM CST
+ 1
Mistake #1 was my fault for not specifically asking for rate quotes instead of relying on my sales rep from one of the big fertlizer companies that this company was competitive. I was wrong in not doing so and take responsibility for the mistake and thus did not try and negotiate a lower rate. I paid the bill, and I had the driver go ahead and haul the other load I had committed to so he was not left hanging and had time to make arrangements for his nextr load from someone else.

The market for NH3 in my area is very competitive and the difference in rate compared to what I expected and was paying to other carriers who are also reliable and have very nice rigs, many of them brand new and always with spit and polish, was the difference in making money or not. My farmer customers are asute shoppers and there is little margin involved. And to whoever posted about my passing the rate along, that is not correct. I quoted a delivered price and that is the price my customer recieved. But since I am an unabashed capitalist, once it was apparent I could not make money using this firm, I stopped using it. Not rocket science.

Last thing, as mentioned, in over 35 years in the retail NH3 business we have never been charged demurrage and this is not the first year with long wait lines. We have recieved NH3 from several firms with large fleets and never a charge. Everyone in the NH3 business knows when the weather breaks right and the demand is high the lines are long at the plants. We recieved trucks that had waited 8-10 hours to load and no one liked it but no one added demurrage. The rates are built high so the trucks do very well when the turn arounds are quick and probably not so well when the lines are long.

I have asked all of the suppliers we buy from, 4 large reputable firms and none of them pay demurrage when they are having NH3 delievered. I have been told it might be different in other areas of the country, but not at Pryor, Verdigris, Enid, etc.

I will continue to do business with the firms we have a relationship with and I trust that Huellinhof will have a profitable relationship with his satisfied customers. I could list the trucking companies and the fertilizer companies I am referencing but I am choosing not to involve them in this discussion.

This will be my last post, so fire away.
Replied on Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 11:03 AM CST
God bless everyone who struggles to make it in today's market.
Replied on Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 01:04 PM CST
If you deal with the railroad.. Or a marine company.. If you are late.. You pay them a dumurage charge.as in a penalty for shutting them down.. . That is a fact.. And i bet if a trucker came into your business and did something to shut down your business.. You would charge them.. So why is it alright for you to shut down the trucking company.. Or part of it as a multi truck company... And not pay for that time.. Is our time not important to you? Also in the very near future.. That time that those are shut down at your facility will be recorded on the electronic log book.. So that load may not be delivered in a timely manner as today..so your customers could possibly not get a superior service.. But a late service.. The whole chain of service needs to be reconsidered.. As in a late truck.. A late shipper.. A pissed off customer.. They go to another company.. One needs to look at how to keep the customer extatic, not just happy.. And the job is not always making you happy.. As no customer.. Your no longer.. It is time that things have got to change.. On ALL sides.. You want to make money.. We do too.
Replied on Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 02:33 PM CST
Well, Mr. Bunton, I happen to be a conservative nationalist. And if you claim to be a capitalist, well we probably won't see eye to eye. just Sayin....
Replied on Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 09:32 PM CST
+ 1
This truck didn't sit at Seed and Farm for 5 hrs. It sat in line at Pryor. In SW MO the bulk of NH3 goes on the last half of Feb and the 1st half of March, weather permitting. Pryor is one of the 3 main terminals it comes out of. I can't believe if Huellinghoff is running the outfit you all are hyping up that he hasn't been to Pryor this season and knew what kind of lines there is down there.
Replied on Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 01:43 PM CST
Mr Meadows, been to Pryor and yes I've sat in the lines down there also,but since I'm am a owner of this company I personally don't charge my time nor should I, but I would like for my leased operators as well as my company drivers to get compensated for it. Now, (this is just me speaking out loud so everyone can see) anything that moves within that 150 miles and is exempt from hours of service the driver should receive pay after the first hour, and anything outside the 150 the owner of the truck should start receiving it to, because lost time is potentially lost revenue, at least that's the way I see it. Remember, I am taking the exemption into account,and that should not hurt truck revenue for the week,and it usually last about 10 days of HARD running anyhow in one certain area. And since this is the case that it why we work the whole Midwest if we can, it is no longer cost effective just to work your home base area.

Replied on Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 01:55 PM CST
+ 1
5 hours is an awful long time to wait without getting paid for it.
Replied on Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 11:32 PM CST
+ 2
I don't give a damn what happened last year or 5 frikkin minutes ago. In today's world my truck won't sit in anyone's line for 5 hours with no compensation. You idiots ordering trucks expecting this better wake up with ELDS on the horizon. Your gonna start paying if you want trucks.
Art Pfluger
Replied on Tue, Mar 01, 2016 at 08:21 AM CST
+ 1
I know when we haul NH3 in Illinois whether it's cowden or dosh we
get paid after the 2nd hour and it should be after the first hour.Ask the
railroad how much money they would lose after 5 hours setting,that's
money you will never get back. I have no dog in this fight but we need
to stick together to get what is good and fair for everyone.
Replied on Tue, Mar 01, 2016 at 11:09 AM CST
I guess i'm doing it all wrong and may even be part of the problem....where i am in texas theres several people to work for most of which are really really cheap but then there are 2 where a little decent revenue can be made. and I have my choice , i can work for the truck broker and run 3 loads a day which comes out to about 485 miles a day and turns about 750 in which there is no sitting and waiting or i can do what i choose to and work for the product shipper in which case i may have to wait 7 or 8 hours at times for them to make a load and then run 484 miles for 850 dollars.... in which case while i'm waiting my engine is off no fuel burnt , i'm running around 75.000 rather than 80,000. i can load and unload around the clock. so i don't have to worry about not stumping my toe and not getting loaded or unloaded..and also running for the shipper i'm not giving up the brokerage fees either so i get all of that 850 rather than 750 less brokerage... the way i see it theres ins and outs pros and cons to everything , i do what i feel is the best and profitable for me make my five loads a week and go home satisfied not really caring what everyone else is doing..
Replied on Wed, Mar 02, 2016 at 12:56 AM CST
I'm pretty sure what happened here now, I could be wrong, I think Mr Bunton knew the plants in Oklahoma were about to go on allocation down there, he called around trying to find trucks to take spot loads, and leave his prepaid loads set, then when allocations started, and knew there would be considerable less lines,he cut us off, and went back to the other carriers he had been using, and started pulling his prepaid loads. Oh, those capitolist, they are a slick bunch.