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SHOW ME THE MONEY

Feb 09, 2016 at 05:38 PM CST
+ 6 - 1
okay folks our favorite double broker has plenty of flatbed loads Houston to Birminghamingham today.
668 miles for $575 + $28.50 FSC. Step right up boys gittum while they're hot. No pushing, and single file please.
Replied on Tue, Feb 09, 2016 at 06:55 PM CST
+ 2
Where do I sign up? I can go broke 2 weeks faster if I haul this versus staying at home!
Replied on Tue, Feb 09, 2016 at 07:14 PM CST
+ 2
Bummer my moto is already 3 gallons low on oil can't afford to get any more
Replied on Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 12:52 PM CST
The wife got this one today emailed to her. the gateway to the shaky $70 per ton and you have to pay for the cleanout Wow life is good guys
Replied on Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 02:59 PM CST
Originally Posted by: JASON WEAST
Quote: "The wife got this one today emailed to her. the gateway to the shaky $70 per ton and you have to pay for the cleanout Wow life is good guys"

Well looks like we all can get into a lower tax bracket without a problem
Replied on Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 03:13 PM CST
Glenn it is pretty bad when a guy owns his truck and trailer free and clear and has his insurance paid for an entire year in advance and still can't make ends meet that sucks
Replied on Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 04:04 PM CST
I haven't caught on to what's causing the problem yet but the last 6 months has been the worst period for me in the past 14 years.
Replied on Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 05:13 PM CST
+ 5
Jerry, from what I've gathered the shippers are still paying the same rrates they have been for the last couple few years the brokers are getting away with getting drivers to do it for nothing such as saying the fuel has driven down the rates what the brokers are doing are figuring out the pocket more money because they're finding stupid drivers want to be entrepreneurs you have to be very careful right now I wish I had a lot of money to buy trucks and trailers and sit on them for a couple years so everything got back the way it's supposed to be I'd make a fortune. I picked up one load of corn from a farmer and he told me that the merchandiser was paying him $2.10 a bushel and charging him $0.80 a bushel to ship it it only had to go 100 miles I made a deal with him I shipped it for $0.60 per bushel and he got $0.60 more per bushel at the seller, everybody made money in the end the broker f*** himself because he was too greedy that has always went on we are just catching on to it more and more screw them. What the broker did not realize, was the farmer had 120,000 bushel of corn he just wanted to see how the merchandiser was going to treat him because he never dealt with him before it's amazing what happens when you get a smart farmer
Replied on Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 09:36 PM CST
The direct shippers we pull for haven't tried cutting rates but a couple of the mega brokers they use have cut about 20% to 25%.
We could add trucks to cover their overage but I'm just not comfortable with that. One customer we've had for years wanted to spec trailers so I bought 2 new ones for their product. 2 months later they went out of business. Sure I have a signed contract for 3 more years but with the plant shut down and the gates chained shut its worthless.
Replied on Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 12:41 AM CST
Yes. Brokers use the falling fuel prices as a way to increase their own profits. Shippers are paying a little less, but nowhere near what the brokers claim. I've always self brokered locally and rely on load boards when my customers slow a bit, or when I get the wild long haul hair up my a$$..... Lately, long haul flat bed rates are around 1.60 to 1.70 per mile and seem to be falling.

I'm not affraid to decline loads just on principle alone. And I financed my truck and trailer and have bills due like everybody else. Im not afraid to respectfully and professionally DECLINE a load. I'll sit at a truck stop for a couple days and go sight see with an Uber (taxi) and wait until I spot an honest load from an honest broker.... If every carrier did this.... this falling rate trend would certainly correct itself, as I dont see any other way a pencil pushing broker could get those loads moved...... Supply and demand my fellow truckers.
Replied on Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 07:00 AM CST
Originally Posted by: JASON WEAST
Quote: "Glenn it is pretty bad when a guy owns his truck and trailer free and clear and has his insurance paid for an entire year in advance and still can't make ends meet that sucks"

Hi Jason, One thing i do every month is a P&L on my business and when i do it i include everything, and i don't care if it is one stamp to mail a letter, and if some of these people that are hauling some of this freight would do the same i garentee they would stop hauling it cause the old saying holds true liars don't figure and figures don't ly, o by the way my mechanic just told me his rates are going up $10.00 dollars per hour
Replied on Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 08:17 AM CST
+ 1
As a BROKER myself, I deal with customers and truckers on a daily basis and i have to say I am amazed at some of the reasons I hear for rates being in decline. The one that totally blew me away was yesterday. I was contacted by one of these new 3PL outfits asking me if i would have equipment in a certain area to move his product to another area. He was saying what an outstanding rate he had on the material. Simple math showed that he was paying about 96 cents per mile for that run. I quizzed him a bit about his reasoning for that rate and his answer was this: "We have to bid it that cheap or we can't get the freight. If we can't move it at that lower rate then there is no reason for us to exist as an entity." Knowing the particular entity that was moving that material I made a call just to satisfy my curiosity. I was told from the people owning the product what they were paying and found out they were paying $2.20/mi. Since that is a lane i normally don't get too I thanked her for the info and went about my business.
Replied on Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 08:23 AM CST
+ 3
Originally Posted by: JASON WEAST
Quote: "Jerry, from what I've gathered the shippers are still paying the same rrates they have been for the last couple few years the brokers are getting away with getting drivers to do it for nothing such as saying the fuel has driven down the rates what the brokers are doing are figuring out the pocket more money because they're finding stupid drivers want to be entrepreneurs you have to be very careful right now I wish I had a lot of money to buy trucks and trailers and sit on them for a couple years so everything got back the way it's supposed to be I'd make a fortune. I picked up one load of corn from a farmer and he told me that the merchandiser was paying him $2.10 a bushel and charging him $0.80 a bushel to ship it it only had to go 100 miles I made a deal with him I shipped it for $0.60 per bushel and he got $0.60 more per bushel at the seller, everybody made money in the end the broker f*** himself because he was too greedy that has always went on we are just catching on to it more and more screw them. What the broker did not realize, was the farmer had 120,000 bushel of corn he just wanted to see how the merchandiser was going to treat him because he never dealt with him before it's amazing what happens when you get a smart farmer "

Jason, first off let me say i have nothing but the utmost respect for ALL of you independent truck owners and operators. That being said, I dont think you know as much about whats going on as you claim, you say the shippers are paying as much now as they always have been? I'm not sure where you get your numbers from or if they come to you in a dream but you are WAY OFF!!!!. On an average the shippers I haul for in large have dropped their rates in the 17 1/2 - 30% range. They are all claiming the "Cheaper Fuel" reason for their actions, now I'm no math whiz but the percentage of drop in shippers pay has far exceeded the drop in average per mile rates paid to truck. Although I do understand your feeling towards brokers as I felt the same way till I became one, I am not just a broker though, I also run trucks so I get to see both sides. The way I see it, if your happy doing things the way you do and it works for you congratulations you've got it figured out. I only hope eventually you'll see most of us are standing with you and all the others on this forum in fighting for higher rates and refusing to work with the cut-throat rate killers. During this period of low rates, back stabbing, finger pointing, & false assumptions we all still need to run and make money, it is true rates now suck, but your blaming it on the brokers is simply short sided and wrong. I would welcome the opportunity to speak with you face to face, I would love to show you how much money I'm stealing from the faithful O/O's who haul for me. In closing, let me say as always I wish all of you hard working guys nothing but the bwest of luck, as you all say you ARE the ones keeping the business going and ones with your boots on the ground doing the hard work.
Replied on Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 08:36 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "As a BROKER myself, I deal with customers and truckers on a daily basis and i have to say I am amazed at some of the reasons I hear for rates being in decline. The one that totally blew me away was yesterday. I was contacted by one of these new 3PL outfits asking me if i would have equipment in a certain area to move his product to another area. He was saying what an outstanding rate he had on the material. Simple math showed that he was paying about 96 cents per mile for that run. I quizzed him a bit about his reasoning for that rate and his answer was this: "We have to bid it that cheap or we can't get the freight. If we can't move it at that lower rate then there is no reason for us to exist as an entity." Knowing the particular entity that was moving that material I made a call just to satisfy my curiosity. I was told from the people owning the product what they were paying and found out they were paying $2.20/mi. Since that is a lane i normally don't get too I thanked her for the info and went about my business."

Duane this is not directed at you, just using your message;

First of all, let me say my trucks are not hauling stuff for this price. I have told my drivers to just make their way to a better place and I will take care of them with their pay.

To the company that offered that rate, and all companies like you, please explain to me and the other owners on here, just what makes you think that because you have monthly rent on an office and a cell phone bill that you are entitled to more per mile on a load than us the owners are?

I will not even try to explain what our costs are, because with your line of thinking, I know your IQ is just 1 point above plant life and explaining would just be a waste of my time.

Rant off.
Replied on Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 09:04 AM CST
+ 4 - 2
Mr. Nolte thanks for your comment there are a few grain buyers that advertise on the site that do exactly what I am talking about I would love to meet an honest broker everyone that I have met over the years by the time it is over has lied to me in some manner and every one of them I have went over their head and got the work myself that is a shame I don't like doing that but when you lie to me and when you steal from me what do you expect I've never met a broker that gives me the respect that I own a business and I don't need him I simply wanted to work with him not against him it always starts off great handshakes friendly maybe take him fishin but in the end they tried to steal from me its happen every time as a matter of fact I work with a new broker that just got his broker's authority last fall and he's already stealing from me what a shame I would like to meet you face to face too because between the people that I know might be able to help you out to get better rates likewise. P. S. One thing people fail to realize is that our trucks are the ones that show up out in the field to get this work done we are the ones talking directly with everyone and everyone talks to us we know a lot more than what you think that we do that's one of the reasons why we started the independent carrier group because we're all tired of this and there's a big thing coming and it's going to be great no brokers required at that point
Replied on Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 09:23 AM CST
+ 1
It would be nice if the government could pass a law that regulates brokers just like the government regulates all of us. If they would be able to pass a law that gives them a maximum broker rate probably somewhere around 10-20% of the load then maybe they would fight harder for better rates. I personally think 20% is too high but it is way better than the 50%+ that some are taking now.
Replied on Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 09:42 AM CST
+ 1
Clint agree with you on a lot of things but on this particular one I would hate for government to get more involved than they already are. I would rather guys have enough balls to publicly announce who is not using good business ethics, and get these guys out of here we don't need them just my little ol opinion. I used one broker one time last year and he lied to me and he did not pay me even though he said he got all of my information he is going to be publicly announced ,if he doesn't pay his bill here directly those are things that we need to start doing majority of the guys are getting ready to go out of business anyway what else do we have to loose. You cannot sue a man for telling the truth.
Replied on Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 10:19 AM CST
Originally Posted by: JASON WEAST
Quote: "Clint agree with you on a lot of things but on this particular one I would hate for government to get more involved than they already are. I would rather guys have enough balls to publicly announce who is not using good business ethics, and get these guys out of here we don't need them just my little ol opinion. I used one broker one time last year and he lied to me and he did not pay me even though he said he got all of my information he is going to be publicly announced ,if he doesn't pay his bill here directly those are things that we need to start doing majority of the guys are getting ready to go out of business anyway what else do we have to loose. You cannot sue a man for telling the truth."

I wasn't being serious because I don't even know if a law like that would even be legal. I was just thinking it would be nice. Our country has way too big of government. That was one way the government was working to lower the unemployment. They created a bunch of government jobs. The country is going to the shitter and people don't realize it. It is pretty bad when only 56% of the population is involved in the workforce. Saw that in the report last week. Eight years ago it was in the mid 60's. They come up with the excuse that unemployment is going down but the way they lower it is by saying more people are deciding not to look for jobs? In my opinion. You either have a job or don't there shouldn't be a gray area in there. This only works for so long eventually the money well will run dry.
Replied on Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 11:04 AM CST
+ 3
I run the East Coast the only way I make money is I run NYC & New England for some reason alot of drivers refuse to go up to the Northeast.

I have direct customers that offer fair rates. Brokers I deal will now & then are cutting rates because of fuel prices, But have not once offered to raise them when tolls & insurance prices continue to rise.

I wish more shippers & brokers had a clue what costs we really have.



Replied on Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 11:20 AM CST
+ 1
Being the curious type and mostly for my own education, what do you fellas work off of to figure your cost of operation? How has it changed with the drop in fuel and what do you figure is your floor for hauling a load? I argue daily with customers that truckers have expenses outside of fuel. For example, one of my guys got socked over two hundred bucks for a couple hoses and some anti freeze. I think $35/gal is a bit outrageous for antifreeze but who am I to say what a fair and reasonable profit is.
My main argument is that repairs are up, shop time is up and climbing. Tires aren't getting any cheaper. I am guessing that most of you own your home and I would bet your house payment hasn't gotten any cheaper since fuel went down. College isn't any cheaper for the kids. Groceries arent any cheaper. I asked a customer how much they were dropping their wages to their employees and how much the price of their finished product was going down due to the drop in fuel. I was told that they have many other costs involved in their production than fuel. That was only a small part of their inputs. Seems to me that is very similar to trucking. I asked him if he was going to reduce his wages by a similar amount that he was trying to reduce freight and I was told that his company had no intention of reducing wages to any of their employees. Hmmmmmmm. Ok enough rambling but I am still curious what method some of you guys use to figure cost of operation. I have been doing this for nearly 30 years and i guess my methods are totally off.
Replied on Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 11:53 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DUANE GEISELMAN
Quote: "Being the curious type and mostly for my own education, what do you fellas work off of to figure your cost of operation? How has it changed with the drop in fuel and what do you figure is your floor for hauling a load? I argue daily with customers that truckers have expenses outside of fuel. For example, one of my guys got socked over two hundred bucks for a couple hoses and some anti freeze. I think $35/gal is a bit outrageous for antifreeze but who am I to say what a fair and reasonable profit is. My main argument is that repairs are up, shop time is up and climbing. Tires aren't getting any cheaper. I am guessing that most of you own your home and I would bet your house payment hasn't gotten any cheaper since fuel went down. College isn't any cheaper for the kids. Groceries arent any cheaper. I asked a customer how much they were dropping their wages to their employees and how much the price of their finished product was going down due to the drop in fuel. I was told that they have many other costs involved in their production than fuel. That was only a small part of their inputs. Seems to me that is very similar to trucking. I asked him if he was going to reduce his wages by a similar amount that he was trying to reduce freight and I was told that his company had no intention of reducing wages to any of their employees. Hmmmmmmm. Ok enough rambling but I am still curious what method some of you guys use to figure cost of operation. I have been doing this for nearly 30 years and i guess my methods are totally off."

Everybody will be different on this one because there are many different factors. Some guys who don't have hired drivers and don't need worker's comp already have an advantage as that can cost anywhere from 10-25% of the driver's wage. Then depends on insurance which can fluctuate on what amounts of coverage you have, driver's record, number of drivers, their experience. Then there is payments on equipment. Some guys have them and some don't. Some advantages of having new stuff over older stuff is hopefully less breakdowns but then you may be still trying to pay the newer stuff off yet. Then there is maintenance on new or old. Some guys service more frequently than others. Some have the knowledge and ability to do their own while others don't have the abilities or place to do their own. So when you don't you have to pay someone at approximately $100 hr to do it for you plus supplies. Then there are long distance hauls and short distance hauls. Long distance hauls you are more likely to get better mileage and hopefully not starting and stopping as often which can save you brakes and tires. Also if you are doing a lot of short hauling you are doing more loading and unloading and sitting in line more so you have to figure that into the rate too. Especially if you have hired drivers as they will need paid for that time or you will not have a driver anymore. I know some owner operators who don't mind sitting in line which I guess is up to them but I have a family to feed and if I am not home I better be making it worth my time away. This is why there is no magic number. All depends on the situation and the way the trucker has his business set up. Sometimes when rates get low then the operator needs to make some changes. Sometimes they can and sometimes they can't. The rates are so low right now trucker's are stretched as thin as they can be and it still isn't enough money. The guys that are doing the cheap stuff won't last forever. There is just no possible way. This is coming from a guy who runs two trucks with two owners of the company driving the trucks. Both of us have no tickets or accidents on our insurance records. According to my agent we have some of the cheapest rates she has seen of all of the people she insures. I have price others every year and she is the lowest by atleast $1500 a year. I'm insured through Northland and have been really happy with them. Had a claim with them in 2010 where I had a truck sitting out and had a surprise hail storm come through with baseball size hail. Over $20000 damage to truck and trailer and next year insurance only went up $100 or so. So basically you tell me the job and I will tell you what I will do it for.
Replied on Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 11:55 AM CST
Originally Posted by: CLINT WEYHRICH
Quote: "Everybody will be different on this one because there are many different factors. Some guys who don't have hired drivers and don't need worker's comp already have an advantage as that can cost anywhere from 10-25% of the driver's wage. Then depends on insurance which can fluctuate on what amounts of coverage you have, driver's record, number of drivers, their experience. Then there is payments on equipment. Some guys have them and some don't. Some advantages of having new stuff over older stuff is hopefully less breakdowns but then you may be still trying to pay the newer stuff off yet. Then there is maintenance on new or old. Some guys service more frequently than others. Some have the knowledge and ability to do their own while others don't have the abilities or place to do their own. So when you don't you have to pay someone at approximately $100 hr to do it for you plus supplies. Then there are long distance hauls and short distance hauls. Long distance hauls you are more likely to get better mileage and hopefully not starting and stopping as often which can save you brakes and tires. Also if you are doing a lot of short hauling you are doing more loading and unloading and sitting in line more so you have to figure that into the rate too. Especially if you have hired drivers as they will need paid for that time or you will not have a driver anymore. I know some owner operators who don't mind sitting in line which I guess is up to them but I have a family to feed and if I am not home I better be making it worth my time away. This is why there is no magic number. All depends on the situation and the way the trucker has his business set up. Sometimes when rates get low then the operator needs to make some changes. Sometimes they can and sometimes they can't. The rates are so low right now trucker's are stretched as thin as they can be and it still isn't enough money. The guys that are doing the cheap stuff won't last forever. There is just no possible way. This is coming from a guy who runs two trucks with two owners of the company driving the trucks. Both of us have no tickets or accidents on our insurance records. According to my agent we have some of the cheapest rates she has seen of all of the people she insures. I have price others every year and she is the lowest by atleast $1500 a year. I'm insured through Northland and have been really happy with them. Had a claim with them in 2010 where I had a truck sitting out and had a surprise hail storm come through with baseball size hail. Over $20000 damage to truck and trailer and next year insurance only went up $100 or so. So basically you tell me the job and I will tell you what I will do it for. "

Sorry storm was in 2012 not 2010.
Replied on Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 06:47 PM CST
+ 1
I have hauled for brokers that have gotten me stuck with loads two or three days and was told that they would take care of me. Never happened. I found out later that waiting time and FSC was paid so I asked about maybe receiving compensation for my time and fuel used. The reply I had gotten was let me make a few calls and see if we can get something. My truck hauled two more loads right after that then I deadheaded home for 264 miles and never hauled for them since. It's those that will make others look bad in the sight of us O/Os. I am struggling just to keep my bills paid as it is, I don't need to be loosing money just so brokers can keep their pockets lined with money we've worked for.