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Slow pay

Dec 03, 2019 at 04:24 AM CST
+ 14 - 10

anyone else having problems getting paid from brokers after loads have been delivered

Replied on Tue, Dec 03, 2019 at 07:36 AM CST
- 4

More often than it should be. Howver, contacting their bond holder always has my money in the mailbox a few days later. Not that a carrier should rely on that bond though since it's only 75k. That measly 75 thousand can be gone in a blink of an eye when dealing with large brokerages. Maybe one day the Feds will actually make the bond match the volume a broker does instead of a one size fits all type deal as not all brokerages are created equal.

Replied on Tue, Dec 03, 2019 at 10:14 AM CST
I have heard several rumors, I have also noticed several companies suddenly have a yard full of trucks, without drivers. I have also noticed that nobody is in the mood to buy a truck, even one that’s exempt. Reminds me of 2006 again.
Replied on Tue, Dec 03, 2019 at 01:57 PM CST
+ 1
Can you define "slow pay"? Is it 30 days after you expected payment, 10 days or next day? When are you expecting payment and what is the agreement that you have with the broker or direct provider of the product that you hauled? Is this one "broker" you are having a problem with or multiple providers? Just trying to get some clarification not trying to stir up a pot.
Replied on Tue, Dec 03, 2019 at 03:16 PM CST
- 6
Originally Posted by: TOMMY WILHELM
Quote: "Can you define "slow pay"? Is it 30 days after you expected payment, 10 days or next day? When are you expecting payment and what is the agreement that you have with the broker or direct provider of the product that you hauled? Is this one "broker" you are having a problem with or multiple providers? Just trying to get some clarification not trying to stir up a pot."

You want to stir the pot? I'll bite! It's quite obvious what the man means. Anything past the due date is, SLOW and unacceptable. Payment terms and or debtor status is irrelevant. Pay on or before the due date, period. This isn't rocket science. They get away with it on the smaller carriers because most of them know it won't get reported to the credit agencies. Few of us have that luxury and they're well aware of it. So they take full advantage of an interest free loan.

Replied on Tue, Dec 03, 2019 at 03:31 PM CST
+ 5 - 1
I said I didnt want to stir the pot. I was asking a simple question so get your panties out of a wad. Payment terms are very relevant. If you sign an agreement that says you will get paid 10 days from receipt of paperwork you should be paid 10 days after receipt of paperwork if not before. But I see everyday where someone holds on to the paperwork for 2 weeks or more and then wants to know where their check is the day it is received. I was asking for a clarification of "slow pay" because you damn well know people have different opinions of what slow pay is. I don't need your money for an interest free loan and I'm not operating that way. Check my payment reviews if you want. I realize some may operate that way but certainly not all.
Replied on Tue, Dec 03, 2019 at 03:56 PM CST
+ 2

seems to me if terms be 30 days i should get percentge just as quick pay if company late with check if paper work is in on time easy enough to ck date an time stamp with e-mail

Replied on Tue, Dec 03, 2019 at 07:23 PM CST
+ 3 - 5
Originally Posted by: TOMMY WILHELM
Quote: "I said I didnt want to stir the pot. I was asking a simple question so get your panties out of a wad. Payment terms are very relevant. If you sign an agreement that says you will get paid 10 days from receipt of paperwork you should be paid 10 days after receipt of paperwork if not before. But I see everyday where someone holds on to the paperwork for 2 weeks or more and then wants to know where their check is the day it is received. I was asking for a clarification of "slow pay" because you damn well know people have different opinions of what slow pay is. I don't need your money for an interest free loan and I'm not operating that way. Check my payment reviews if you want. I realize some may operate that way but certainly not all."

Cry me a river, broker. You knew what a can of worms you were opening. Hence your passive aggressive statement about, "not wanting to stir the pot". You could have easilty spelled it out like you did in your previous response. Obviously, if that stipulation is in his contract then it would only be an EXCUSE for the parasite to not pay on time. Just like all the games ya'll like to play with accessorials. Particularly, detention and TONU. However, you conveniently left out those pertinent details. Get your own trucks, drivers, insurance and authority then you won't have to worry about when you get your "paperwork". You don't have the funds available to pay every invoice upon receipt or even on time for that matter unless you run a very very small operation. This is why you wait until your "customer", larger brokerage and/or 3PL pays you. Only THEN you might get around to paying the carrier. You don't pay a dime for the transportation but sit around and tax it as if you did. No assets, no overhead and essentially no skin in the game. All of you are nothing but a bunch used car salesmen brimming with politician speak. I'll digress but I have several choice words for your kind. I could care less about your payment reviews. No doubt they're fake like the rest of them anyway.

Replied on Tue, Dec 03, 2019 at 07:23 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: CHARLES MILES
Quote: "seems to me if terms be 30 days i should get percentge just as quick pay if company late with check if paper work is in on time easy enough to ck date an time stamp with e-mail"

Your best bet is to get an addendum already set up in the contract phase during negotiaions beforehand. If not, put all your terms (accessorials and late fees etc etc) on the rate con and have them sign it. If they need it moved bad enough, they'll agree. If not? Let it rot!

Replied on Wed, Dec 04, 2019 at 08:33 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "You want to stir the pot? I'll bite! It's quite obvious what the man means. Anything past the due date is, SLOW and unacceptable. Payment terms and or debtor status is irrelevant. Pay on or before the due date, period. This isn't rocket science. They get away with it on the smaller carriers because most of them know it won't get reported to the credit agencies. Few of us have that luxury and they're well aware of it. So they take full advantage of an interest free loan. "

Over 60 days

Replied on Wed, Dec 04, 2019 at 11:24 AM CST
+ 4
Had a DOT for a year and half and think you know it all huh. If you don't like brokers don't use them, simple as that. You don't know a thing about me or my business but pricks like you is what give trucking a bad name, has nothing to do with brokers. I have plenty of trucks that carry for me on a regular basis that will vouch for me, my rates, my fairness and how quick I pay. So go back to bed rookie.
Replied on Wed, Dec 04, 2019 at 03:25 PM CST
+ 2
Quote deleted

Never stole from a carrier a day in my life. Thats something you are going to need to prove.
Replied on Wed, Dec 04, 2019 at 03:25 PM CST
+ 5
Mr.Krouse,
You have stepped over the line on this one. You seem to be relatively new to some on the forum. Tommy is one of the finest people I've worked with. You seem to be angry in every post. Tommy will overpay before short pay. He'll pay you sooner not later. He has extended a helping hand to some of us when times are really dark. You need to know who your calling out FIRST, not after. Someone also recently posted slow psy on another broker that we have known for years. If that broker or someone hauling for Tommy claim there is a pay problem maybe ALL sides should be heard from before you run your mouth. Truth is my bet is Tommy could buy and sell you out of his watch pocket.
Good luck Mr.Krouse

Art Pfluger
Replied on Wed, Dec 04, 2019 at 03:45 PM CST
+ 2
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "Cry me a river, broker. You knew what a can of worms you were opening. Hence your passive aggressive statement about, "not wanting to stir the pot". You could have easilty spelled it out like you did in your previous response. Obviously, if that stipulation is in his contract then it would only be an EXCUSE for the parasite to not pay on time. Just like all the games ya'll like to play with accessorials. Particularly, detention and TONU. However, you conveniently left out those pertinent details. Get your own trucks, drivers, insurance and authority then you won't have to worry about when you get your "paperwork". You don't have the funds available to pay every invoice upon receipt or even on time for that matter unless you run a very very small operation. This is why you wait until your "customer", larger brokerage and/or 3PL pays you. Only THEN you might get around to paying the carrier. You don't pay a dime for the transportation but sit around and tax it as if you did. No assets, no overhead and essentially no skin in the game. All of you are nothing but a bunch used car salesmen brimming with politician speak. I'll digress but I have several choice words for your kind. I could care less about your payment reviews. No doubt they're fake like the rest of them anyway. "

you have tommy from HFB figured wrong i have put trucks on his hauls grossing 10-12 thousand a week fedx paper work friday ach on tuesday try geting that from some one for 4 years in a row . never happen plus it was always correct .he"s probably one out of 500 that could manage that. he sticks by his word not much of that anymore.most of the time we can read between the lines and read what some one types and figure out if the shoe fits. WELL DOES IT?
Replied on Wed, Dec 04, 2019 at 04:13 PM CST
- 7

I see brokers pay off their slaves well around here. What else have ya'll sold to the devil?

Replied on Sat, Dec 07, 2019 at 07:08 PM CST
+ 1
Sounds like a broker I’d like to do business with. If you need bulk end dump work out of the south MS area, give me a call.
Replied on Mon, Dec 09, 2019 at 05:59 AM CST
Meanwhile celadon shuts the doors, as the ATA says there is a shortage of drivers.
Replied on Mon, Dec 09, 2019 at 06:03 AM CST
+ 1

Mr.Krouse,
Ask Jared. No one in the history of this forum has had to ask for help in deleting stupid posts more than me. I think i single handedly caused the current review scenario. Your pushing the envelope, in my opinion.
I'm no ones slave. You can make a point without being this offensive if you want to.
For those of of us with small otr irregular route fleets brokers become a fact of life. Factoring companies ( smart freight being the best ever) brokers all are tools. Used with imagination and prudence are money makers.
Possibly you are a local or regional carrier. If that is the case you have different operating concerns.
I have never been a word Smith and I have learned on this forum that a little tack can be a plus.
I learned the hard way some time back about lumping brokers in a group. There are 3 kinds of brokers. Great ones like Tommy and Duane.
Average or realistically LAZY brokers that give you a load number and tell you call them when its over. These are almost all brokers on this site (not to include commoditiebuyers) .
Then we have the bad guys. You can imagine.
All of us have different operating parameters.
Im no ones slave.
I think you just like to make a headline rather than make a point.
You do what you wish but picking a fight with people you don't know anything about is stupid. You're on point to rival my record on posts that need deleting. Not a proud moment for either of us.
Don't mess with Tommy
Don't mess with Duane
Learn from my mistakes. LEARN from the brokers that have the balls to post on here. Very few brokers care enough about us to educate us about their side of things.
Just being a negative to be a negative benefits no one.
Good luck in your endeavors.
Put some actual thought in your posts and you will be taken seriously.

Art Pfluger

Replied on Mon, Dec 09, 2019 at 11:28 AM CST
+ 2
Somebody once asked Harriet Tubman how many slaves she helped set free, and she replied I dont know, but I could have set alot more of them free if they would have realized they were slaves. Free men set their own rate, just like those the government protects with patent laws, while slaves are told what they will accept by their masters. As of today, roughly 640 well established carriers have closed the doors in the past year, with Celedon being the most recent. None of us have been able to set our own rates ever since deregulation, we are told what we will work for, it is nolonger freedom or prosperity we have, it is a mere illusion of it.
Replied on Mon, Dec 09, 2019 at 12:15 PM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Somebody once asked Harriet Tubman how many slaves she helped set free, and she replied I dont know, but I could have set alot more of them free if they would have realized they were slaves. Free men set their own rate, just like those the government protects with patent laws, while slaves are told what they will accept by their masters. As of today, roughly 640 well established carriers have closed the doors in the past year, with Celedon being the most recent. None of us have been able to set our own rates ever since deregulation, we are told what we will work for, it is nolonger freedom or prosperity we have, it is a mere illusion of it. "

Very valid point, sir. I heard about Celedon going under this morning. They bought up several smaller trucking companies over the last couple years too. I'm curious what will happen with those recently acquired carriers. I have no doubt Celedon knew exactly what they were doing. Growing exponentially to reduce their tax burden to later claim bankrupty on all the credit they ran up in the meantime to walk away smelling like a rose. Gotta pay to play, I guess. I only feel bad for the employees left without jobs. Especially this time of year.

Replied on Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 02:29 PM CST
+ 2
Originally Posted by: ROSE PFLUGER
Quote: "Mr.Krouse,Ask Jared. No one in the history of this forum has had to ask for help in deleting stupid posts more than me. I think i single handedly caused the current review scenario. Your pushing the envelope, in my opinion. I'm no ones slave. You can make a point without being this offensive if you want to. For those of of us with small otr irregular route fleets brokers become a fact of life. Factoring companies ( smart freight being the best ever) brokers all are tools. Used with imagination and prudence are money makers. Possibly you are a local or regional carrier. If that is the case you have different operating concerns. I have never been a word Smith and I have learned on this forum that a little tack can be a plus.I learned the hard way some time back about lumping brokers in a group. There are 3 kinds of brokers. Great ones like Tommy and Duane.Average or realistically LAZY brokers that give you a load number and tell you call them when its over. These are almost all brokers on this site (not to include commoditiebuyers) .Then we have the bad guys. You can imagine. All of us have different operating parameters. Im no ones slave. I think you just like to make a headline rather than make a point.You do what you wish but picking a fight with people you don't know anything about is stupid. You're on point to rival my record on posts that need deleting. Not a proud moment for either of us. Don't mess with Tommy Don't mess with Duane Learn from my mistakes. LEARN from the brokers that have the balls to post on here. Very few brokers care enough about us to educate us about their side of things. Just being a negative to be a negative benefits no one.Good luck in your endeavors. Put some actual thought in your posts and you will be taken seriously. Art Pfluger"

Good afternoon Art, It's been a while since our last exchange. I would like to thank you for calling out Mr. Krouse. Though in a broad way his complaints have merit and I can understand why he's upset. Like you & Tommy mentioned his comments weren't quite precise enough and could be taken many different ways. Payment terms is it's own subject which is agreed upon PRIOR to hauling the load. The one thing i could add to this would be the typical "30 days" claim, this is a gray area and it could me payment will be SENT 30 days after the laod is hauled, or 30 days after we receive the invoice from the truck which is where so much frustration comes in. For example if your terms are paid with 30 days of the receipt of the invoice it could very easily be 45 days from the date the laod was hauled before the truck gets the check with the time it takes to mail things, which brings up another part of his complaint, I know it's easy to assume us bad guys "Brokers" just sit on that money and collect interest, NOT SO!!, I can not invoice my customer for the load you haul for me until I get the paperwork from the truck. SO, let's recap. You deliver my laod on Monday the 9th, you get the invoice ready when you get home that weekend so lets say it goes out on Monday the 16th, I get the invoice maybe the 19th if we're lucky. We get the weights, load #'s etc... together to send off to our customer, OK now it's the 20th when it gets mailed out. If we'rer lucky my customer gets it on the 24th. From that point if my customer's terms are payable within 30 days that brings us to the 23rd of January, check gets mailed on the on January 23rd and maybe we get it around the 26th. OK, you hauled that load on the 9th of December and I get the money from my customer on 26th of january, exactly when was I sitting on YOUR money again?? I can not speak for any other brokers on here including my friends Tommy or Duane but I know we send you your money often times LONG before we get it from OUR customer. It's been a long time since I've posted my $.02 and thought why not, didnt want any of you thinking I disappeared haha. I hope you ALL have a safe & happy Holiday season. MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Replied on Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 04:03 PM CST
+ 1
Jim, thanks for your perspective. Unfortunately I always assumed the customer sent the money at the time we unload and give them their copy of the load sheet. It always makes a situation easier when we understand both sides better. I personally only use a few brokers this year, and I appreciate the good people. I think the shady people are fully aware that they are shady, and pay no attention to a forum like this, which in turn gets the good people recieving a portion of our complaints.
Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 07:05 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "You want to stir the pot? I'll bite! It's quite obvious what the man means. Anything past the due date is, SLOW and unacceptable. Payment terms and or debtor status is irrelevant. Pay on or before the due date, period. This isn't rocket science. They get away with it on the smaller carriers because most of them know it won't get reported to the credit agencies. Few of us have that luxury and they're well aware of it. So they take full advantage of an interest free loan. "

Do you need a hug or snickers?
Replied on Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 01:17 PM CST
+ 1 - 2
Originally Posted by: JIM NOLTE
Quote: "Good afternoon Art, It's been a while since our last exchange. I would like to thank you for calling out Mr. Krouse. Though in a broad way his complaints have merit and I can understand why he's upset. Like you & Tommy mentioned his comments weren't quite precise enough and could be taken many different ways. Payment terms is it's own subject which is agreed upon PRIOR to hauling the load. The one thing i could add to this would be the typical "30 days" claim, this is a gray area and it could me payment will be SENT 30 days after the laod is hauled, or 30 days after we receive the invoice from the truck which is where so much frustration comes in. For example if your terms are paid with 30 days of the receipt of the invoice it could very easily be 45 days from the date the laod was hauled before the truck gets the check with the time it takes to mail things, which brings up another part of his complaint, I know it's easy to assume us bad guys "Brokers" just sit on that money and collect interest, NOT SO!!, I can not invoice my customer for the load you haul for me until I get the paperwork from the truck. SO, let's recap. You deliver my laod on Monday the 9th, you get the invoice ready when you get home that weekend so lets say it goes out on Monday the 16th, I get the invoice maybe the 19th if we're lucky. We get the weights, load #'s etc... together to send off to our customer, OK now it's the 20th when it gets mailed out. If we'rer lucky my customer gets it on the 24th. From that point if my customer's terms are payable within 30 days that brings us to the 23rd of January, check gets mailed on the on January 23rd and maybe we get it around the 26th. OK, you hauled that load on the 9th of December and I get the money from my customer on 26th of january, exactly when was I sitting on YOUR money again?? I can not speak for any other brokers on here including my friends Tommy or Duane but I know we send you your money often times LONG before we get it from OUR customer. It's been a long time since I've posted my $.02 and thought why not, didnt want any of you thinking I disappeared haha. I hope you ALL have a safe & happy Holiday season. MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Typical broker speak...blamimg the mail on slow pay. Your arrangement between the broker and their customer is none of my concern. I invoice brokerage immediately upon delivery, payment is due within the payment terms schedule per our contract. It's the broker's responsibility to pay the carrier within that time frame. No excuses. If they don't have the money at hand to pay their bills then they're essentially getting a free loan from the carrier. That's the bottom line. The rest is symantics. When I wrote that second post I was pretty pissed off at Re-Trans. They're a Keuhne and Nagel company and very very large. One of my biggest customers uses them as their "third party payment provider". This customer sent me tons of work that I was billing $150/hr plus all accessorials like tolls and storage etc etc. As great as it was, I had to tell them I could no longer haul for them because they don't pay on time. Yes, I cut my nose off to bite my face but a man's got to have principals. I'd rather stand for something then fall for nothing.

My terms with Re-Trans were NET30. However, they routinely don't even send out a check until 65-75 days have passed AFTER I've invoiced. that 30-45 days late. Now we're talking 15k here, 18k there and once one was over 32k due! In 30 days time, I could completely use up their entire measley 75k surety bond myself. Imagine how many other carriers they do that to. Millions of dollars at their disposal to anything they want with while the bond does nothing at all to safegaurd the carrier. For a brokerage their size they should have to carry a significantly higher bond. That's absolutley pathetic. I got tired being a bill collector and will no longer deal with them in any capacity regardless of the rate. You only live once and I do what I do so I can enjoy my life not chase down multinational billion dollar conglomerates for what is essentially pocket change to them.

Imagine if I told my creditors that I couldn't pay them until I got paid from a broker or customer. It wouldn't fly. After 30 days, I have to pay fees in the form of penalties and/or interest. If brokers had to pay those fees they would be paying on time! Anyone that thinks this is ok for brokers to get a free pass is huge part of them problem. If Tommy, Duane, yourself or whoever else does things the "right" way than they are an exception and I commend them for it. However, until I experience it first hand than they'll be lumped into the same category as every other broker I've dealt with. I've seen so many of them get caught red handed leaving fake reviews for themselves on DAT and ITS. So I consider most of those things heresay. Nothing personal, it's just business. Perhaps I should have kept my comments more third person-like instead of lashing out on Tommy per se and for that I apologise. I also appreciate that you can see where myself, or any other carrier would have major issues with deadbeat debtors. I'm a frank individual who routinely offends people with brute honesty. I still stand by my words though and will shout them from the rooftops to anyone new to the industry in hopes of saving them all the agrivation I've dealt with in the past.

Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 01:30 PM CST
Jim, good to hear your still fighting the war with the rest of us. Merry Christmas to you sir.

Art Pfluger
Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 03:07 PM CST
I have been in the trucking business almost 44 years now and I would take $150/hr plus and give that customer 60-75 days to pay me and smile all the way to the bank. That is a no brainer if thats what you were making. Just my 2 cents
Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 03:07 PM CST
This is why I only deal with mainly one broker. My buddy owns midway logistics and he always gets me good rates and fast pay. And if a load gets messed up he will still pay me for a layover.
Replied on Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 04:36 PM CST
Originally Posted by: STEVE MCCLURE
Quote: "I have been in the trucking business almost 44 years now and I would take $150/hr plus and give that customer 60-75 days to pay me and smile all the way to the bank. That is a no brainer if thats what you were making. Just my 2 cents"

Well, get into heavy towing and you too can charge those kinds of rates. I wasn't gouging them, nor rate cutting either. I made damn sure my rates were roughly what all the other companies in that area were charging. It was pretty easy for me since I've worked for a good percentage of them as either a driver, office manager and/or dispatcher. Or you can simply pick up the phone and call around for rates in your area yourself.