Home > Forum > What Is Double Brokering?

What is double brokering?

Jun 24, 2015 at 12:01 AM CST
+ 1
It is not illegal for brokers to swap freight amongst themselves. Double brokering by the legal definition is when a carrier books a load from a shipper or broker, and does not have a brokers license, then in turn puts it on another carriers truck (his buddy that has a crappy reputation, or does not have the insurance). The problem with this is that the originating carrier is assuming all the liability for the second carrier.

Now the trucker's definition of double brokering is: Anytime there are more than one broker involved in selling me the freight. It really would not matter how many brokers were involved if they all divided their little piece of the pie amongst themselves, but we all know that is not how it works.

Examples:

How it is now
Load from shipper pays $2000.00 for 800 miles, $2.50 per mile to truck

Broker A takes $400.00 leaving $1600.00, $2.00 per mile to truck

Broker B takes $240.00 additional leaving $1360.00, $1.70 per mile to truck

Broker C takes $204.00 additional leaving $1156.00, $1.44 per mile to truck


How it used to be done
Load from shipper pays $2000.00 for 800 miles, $2.50 per mile to truck

Broker A takes $200.00 leaving $1800.00, $2.25 per mile to truck

Broker A then agrees to let broker B split the $200.00 with them
Broker A takes $100.00
Broker B takes $100.00 leaving $1800.00, $2.25 per mile to truck

Broker B then agrees to let broker C split their $100.00 with them
Broker B takes $50.00
Broker C takes $50.00 leaving $1800.00, $2.25 per mile to truck

As you can see done properly all parties still make a small part of the pie while giving the truck the lion's share for their risk.

Hope that helps to clear it up for you.
Replied on Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 03:51 AM CST
+ 1
That would be triple brokering. In my environment, double brokering is when a broker gets a load from a shipper, brokers it to a carrier who agrees to haul it and instead of hauling it, then brokers the same load for less money to another carrier. Whether or not they have broker authority does not change double brokering, without the broker authority it is breaking the law.
Replied on Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 08:31 AM CST
+ 1
We need to start quadruple brokering, cause if these guys are dumb enough to haul it then we must be not taking enough money
Replied on Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 09:46 AM CST
Originally Posted by: JASON WEAST
Quote: "We need to start quadruple brokering, cause if these guys are dumb enough to haul it then we must be not taking enough money"

Jason I got an idea, we could get some prepaid gift cards sell them as per mile rate cards. The truckers could prepay for the amount of miles that they want to run, when the called on the load the broker could just deduct from their per mile card the number of miles that they wanted to run. The broker then in return could keep all the money for the miles that the shipper is paying. I think I just figured out a new business model, we could sell these cards at the truckstops and I bet these mile pounders would just jump all over them. LOL
Replied on Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 10:23 AM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: STEVE JORAMO
Quote: "That would be triple brokering. In my environment, double brokering is when a broker gets a load from a shipper, brokers it to a carrier who agrees to haul it and instead of hauling it, then brokers the same load for less money to another carrier. Whether or not they have broker authority does not change double brokering, without the broker authority it is breaking the law. "

good explanation, also, if no one is named on anyone's insurance, no one is covered, this is worth a lot more money than the trucker's rate to haul, so its got little to do with the truck for the shipper, it's about monetary coverage in case something happens to the load no matter who thinks they are a broker.
Replied on Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 10:44 AM CST
+ 4 - 1
I would LOVE to make $400 on any single load I broker out LOL, I can promise you this, I have NEVER been able to make that on any load I've ever brokered LOL. Maybe I'm doing it wrong LOL. I'm not wanting to start an argument here but if I was the greedy broker from your first example I would only have to work 3 days per week and could spend the rest of my time driving for you hauling your good paying loads and retire in 10yrs LOL. Keep up the posts, I actually DO enjoy reading them from all you guys.
Replied on Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 11:02 AM CST
Okay how about this maybe not double brokerage but gouging such as I don't know of any soybean meal that moves out of any plants for under $2.50 (low side)a mile but ic brokers posting loads all the time from a 1.85 to $2 per mile so it might not be double brokering its just flat out gouging either way it sucks and it needs to be stopped
Replied on Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 11:41 AM CST
An older driver once told me a GOOD Broker will take 8%, and with an advance 10% and give the rest to the carrier.
Replied on Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 12:23 PM CST
Originally Posted by: JIM NOLTE
Quote: "I would LOVE to make $400 on any single load I broker out LOL, I can promise you this, I have NEVER been able to make that on any load I've ever brokered LOL. Maybe I'm doing it wrong LOL. I'm not wanting to start an argument here but if I was the greedy broker from your first example I would only have to work 3 days per week and could spend the rest of my time driving for you hauling your good paying loads and retire in 10yrs LOL. Keep up the posts, I actually DO enjoy reading them from all you guys."

Yeah, Jim I know, but you are one of the few that are doing it honestly. You have to work your hind end off to get that customer, look behind your back and wonder if the bigger firms are coming, and just when you sigh and think you are good to go. Here comes that trucker sliding in and undercutting the rate to the shipper, while you were paying him more then he could have got on his own. Sounds about right don't it. You most likely would not be involved in the first example because while the money looks good you like to sleep at night. That my sir is called honor. I suspect you fall into the second example. I and others have called to many times on the same loads from different brokers and have found the first example to be the truth more often than not. It is too bad that the second example was not the norm, than we could all do what we do best.

Shipper build widgets and ship (quit trying to be a freight broker)
Brokers broker loads ( quit trying to take all the money from each truck)
Truckers haul loads ( quit trying to backdoor the good broker and haul it for less)

Each party needs the other, most of these smaller guys don't have an office personal that is running hawkeye for them. They are just living load to load, paycheck to paycheck. If we don't start working as a team than we will be overtaken and dead and gone within the next 10 - 15 years. They pounded the brokerage side of things first with the Bond increase. They are trying to raise the truckers insurance to $4 M, how many little guys will go under or just do Power Only if that were to happen. I saw a lot of good broker friends have to close up shop and join bigger firms when the bond increased. They were honest, hardworking folks, that used to drive trucks, and now they have to basically do what they despised doing in the first place. Be involved in the gleaning of the trucker.

Trust me Jim, it is tempting to want to sell my trucks and go to work for one of those Total Quantity Lines of brokers, but I feel that if I have to steal from people versus earning their respect and money than I will find something else to do.
Replied on Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 12:52 PM CST
- 1
so what are you saying, if the customer says he wants a load to move for 120/ton and you find a truck for 90/ton you lower your rate after the customer has already told you what to move it for and agreed on it? Just curious.....
Replied on Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 12:59 PM CST
+ 2
You would pay the truck $115 a ton and keep $5 a ton as the broker.
Replied on Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 01:01 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: TOMMY WILHELM
Quote: "You would pay the truck $115 a ton and keep $5 a ton as the broker."

so you would pay the truck more even when they told you what their rate is? which was 90/ton....
Replied on Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 01:15 PM CST
+ 5
Actually I would. Very seldom do I call a truck and ask them what their rate is for X load. I call the truck and tell them what I have and what it is paying. Over the years I have developed a relationship with the trucks that run for me either regularly or on a spot basis and I have a good feeling what they will and won't run for. And the bottom line is I don't try and peddle cheap freight as it hurts us all. If you pay a truck what it is worth we will all succeed. In the above scenario if you keep $30 a ton on that one load you will make approx. $750, if you pay the truck what he is worth and keep $5 a ton you will make approx $125 a load and he will continue to haul for you and over the course of a year you will make alot more money and he will make a lot more money. Where as if he hauls that one load for you and you make your $750 he will in most cases go on to the next load and the next broker and you dont make anything off of that truck again and you are back to square one. My two cents worth for whats its worth. Treating trucks and people in general the right way works every time.
Replied on Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 04:03 PM CST
+ 2
Tommy I have pulled a few loads with you last year and your guys were some of the best I've ever worked with. We all appreciate your honesty. Miss Nancy I am interpretating your statement as that u are stating that u don't help the trucker u re hoping his rate is less than your offering so u can gouge the shit out of him? If this is true which I hope it's not, I hope and pray u go out of business tonight, because this is one of our biggest problems. At any rate your statement makes u look like a very piss poor individual
Replied on Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 04:28 PM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: JASON WEAST
Quote: "Tommy I have pulled a few loads with you last year and your guys were some of the best I've ever worked with. We all appreciate your honesty. Miss Nancy I am interpretating your statement as that u are stating that u don't help the trucker u re hoping his rate is less than your offering so u can gouge the shit out of him? If this is true which I hope it's not, I hope and pray u go out of business tonight, because this is one of our biggest problems. At any rate your statement makes u look like a very piss poor individual "

i think we could all just do without these kinds of statements. Please read the disclaimer statement for this website.
Replied on Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 04:31 PM CST
Originally Posted by: NANCY HARDER
Quote: "i think we could all just do without these kinds of statements. Please read the disclaimer statement for this website."

Your right. I should of said you and your company are VERY BAD FOR BUSINESS. how's that? No cuss words there miss Nancy
Replied on Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 04:38 PM CST
Originally Posted by: TOMMY WILHELM
Quote: "Actually I would. Very seldom do I call a truck and ask them what their rate is for X load. I call the truck and tell them what I have and what it is paying. Over the years I have developed a relationship with the trucks that run for me either regularly or on a spot basis and I have a good feeling what they will and won't run for. And the bottom line is I don't try and peddle cheap freight as it hurts us all. If you pay a truck what it is worth we will all succeed. In the above scenario if you keep $30 a ton on that one load you will make approx. $750, if you pay the truck what he is worth and keep $5 a ton you will make approx $125 a load and he will continue to haul for you and over the course of a year you will make alot more money and he will make a lot more money. Where as if he hauls that one load for you and you make your $750 he will in most cases go on to the next load and the next broker and you dont make anything off of that truck again and you are back to square one. My two cents worth for whats its worth. Treating trucks and people in general the right way works every time."

so what happens when you have 200 loads to move? do you go back to your customer with different rates for all the trucks you will use? how do you work on a multi load contract where you might use 10 companies? again, just curious.....

Replied on Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 04:54 PM CST
+ 1
I guess I am misunderstanging your whole question from the first. If a customer gives me 200 loads to move and we negotiate the price to move it the price I am being paid is set. Then I go to work getting trucks to haul it. If I am doing my job correctly and I know my market I know what it is going to take to get the loads moved. My customers only responsibility at that time is to load the trucks as I send them and pay me our negotiated price for the delivered loads. My customer knows what each load is costing him because we pre-negotiated the cost. I have on several occassions made mistakes and lost money or broke even on loads to get them moved for the price I negotiated with the customer. Its not my customers fault I didnt price it right to begin with and its not the trucks fault, its my fault and my responsibility.
Replied on Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 05:25 PM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: TOMMY WILHELM
Quote: "I guess I am misunderstanging your whole question from the first. If a customer gives me 200 loads to move and we negotiate the price to move it the price I am being paid is set. Then I go to work getting trucks to haul it. If I am doing my job correctly and I know my market I know what it is going to take to get the loads moved. My customers only responsibility at that time is to load the trucks as I send them and pay me our negotiated price for the delivered loads. My customer knows what each load is costing him because we pre-negotiated the cost. I have on several occassions made mistakes and lost money or broke even on loads to get them moved for the price I negotiated with the customer. Its not my customers fault I didnt price it right to begin with and its not the trucks fault, its my fault and my responsibility."

yes, my question was more to do with scheduling and budgeting for multiple loads, that is why some hedge for trucks that need to pulled in from farther away is needed as trucks are all in different locations, fairness to everyone in the planning is essential. thanks for your explanation.

again, referring to multi load contracts, your explanation that you would give a carrier 20/MT more than he quoted you seems odd as it is the carrier that set the rate when asked to quote on it. Would you not decrease the shipper/customer rate to save them money and in turn give the carrier the rate he quoted? seems unfair to the shipper doing it your way by overpaying the truck, just an observation but not sure if we are on the same thought path....
Replied on Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 05:33 PM CST
That is a total 180 from your original statement, originally u stated if someone truck bid cheaper to you and you made more money than u thought u were going to make that u would pocket the difference. Now u explain that u realize u screwed by stating the first statement and u are now trying to ? Do better for the trucker ? Are we hearing u correctly. Please explain in more detail?
Replied on Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 06:07 PM CST
There would be nothing unfair to my customer as again I would pre-negotiate a rate. If a truck is 300 miles away from my load more than likely it is not going to be feasible for him to deadhead to get to my load and my load would just not work for him, however if he still wanted to deadhead to get to my load that is his choice but not part of my pre-negoatiated rate. If I know the area I am working in I should know in advance approx. how many trucks are going to be in the area and what distance they are going to have to deadhead to get to me and that would be figured in my rate because I pre-negotiated. If a truck happens to be 20 miles from me and my rate has a built in deadhead of 100 miles the truck that is 20 miles away is going to get the same rate as the truck that is 100 miles away and he deserves it because he planned better or he may even have gotten lucky but it would still go to the truck. The customer doesnt care because he knows how much each load is going to cost him.
Replied on Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 07:21 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: TOMMY WILHELM
Quote: "There would be nothing unfair to my customer as again I would pre-negotiate a rate. If a truck is 300 miles away from my load more than likely it is not going to be feasible for him to deadhead to get to my load and my load would just not work for him, however if he still wanted to deadhead to get to my load that is his choice but not part of my pre-negoatiated rate. If I know the area I am working in I should know in advance approx. how many trucks are going to be in the area and what distance they are going to have to deadhead to get to me and that would be figured in my rate because I pre-negotiated. If a truck happens to be 20 miles from me and my rate has a built in deadhead of 100 miles the truck that is 20 miles away is going to get the same rate as the truck that is 100 miles away and he deserves it because he planned better or he may even have gotten lucky but it would still go to the truck. The customer doesnt care because he knows how much each load is going to cost him."

I will remember to call you the next time we are in Texas.

Right now is a hard market for everybody, those that have been greedy in the past will not survive. This includes the Trucker, Broker, and the Shipper as well.

Those of us that own our stuff can afford to park it versus taking a loss to just keep those tires rolling. The rest that are addicted to the drug (miles, money) they will be most likely out of business over the next year.

I have been eyeballing a lot of nice trucks at the Auctions over the past few months. I know for a fact that I saw a lot of them last year passing me on the road hauling hoppers. What do you guys think is going to happen when the market starts to pick back up. All of us that had loyal customers that rode it out with us, will not be interested in dealing with all of you that are out there sticking it to the truckers. Guys like Tommy, Jim, and the others will excel because they either own trucks or have owned trucks, and understand the pain that is involved with the running of the road. The rest of you that are functioning under example 1, will find yourselves working with those that either have one foot in the business graveyard or are fresh meat in the truckers butcher shop. Either way you will be having a multiple of problems, such as not showing up to PU the load, equipment breaking down, DOT out of services, or the worst an accident killing somebody due to being ran ragged because they have to pound more miles. For all you individuals that continue to take advantage of those that are taking the largest risk, Shame on YOU!!! You are lucky that you do not meet me personally, I really enjoy beating up those that are beating up those that don't know better or can't defend themselves. Dishonest Brokers be warned, there is a new attitude about to erupt from the truckers.

This is the moment for the greedmonsters to make a decision:

You can either choose to make 5% - 10% of 100 peoples efforts, or you will end up making none of your own.

You can continue to take 30% - 50% off of each truck and then the trucks will be gone.

Think about it, NO TRUCKER= NO BROKER

NO BROKER will there will still be the TRUCKER

Power to the TRUCKER
Replied on Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 09:21 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: NANCY HARDER
Quote: "i think we could all just do without these kinds of statements. Please read the disclaimer statement for this website."

Truth hurt? I've read enough of your posts that makes me believe that you would screw anybody that you could. From your 'market is down so the truck needs to haul cheaper' in another thread to your statements in this thread. I'll be honest I don't care for your attuide on here and if I meet you in person I would more than likely dislike you.
Replied on Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 11:23 PM CST
+ 4
Nancy you and Scott Wachtel should get together for tea. You could hold your pinky finger out while admiring your expensive clothes and massive shops >>>>>I'll leave it there for now. While I understand the terms of the site we are supposed to be adults if some colorful language offends you, You are REALLY in the wrong business. Scott and others ripped me for my language on a recent thread, was it appropriate, ??? but the person really PISSED ME OFF. All of you brilliant minds can overthink the obvious and run our industry segment further in the ground. DO you really need me to tell all of you how our BULK freight is disappearing while moving the product to other trailer types? Because they can move it for $1.10 per mile on a van instead of paying me $2.50 per mile as a bulk load. The answer to our problems is not broken english suggesting that my salvation is putting cars in my Walking Floor. Someone that I really respect, Mr.Schut, recently posted that the forum might be our undoing. I am trying to give up on the site. For People to dislike my thoughts or words is fine that is their opinion and I WANT TO HEAR IT. The Forum in my opinion is for all of us to have a voice, regardless of the size of our operation, but when people call me on my personal cell phone to rip me for my adult language, thats to far. I am a big kid and I will survive, not that big a deal, but if you really think that adult language on here is inappropiate calling me personally is more so, I think.
I'm back on this forum as you crossed the line for me when you are questioning the morality of Tommy Wilhelm. Thats one step to far for me. Nancy your ethics and morality in dealing with me the trucker is self evident. You would gladly put that "EXTRA" money in your pocket. I know I'm not supposed to call individuals out on here, but it is so tempting.
Nancy, I've been in this industry longer than you could spell TRUCK. There is no person in this industry with higher morals than Mr.Wilhelm. I know that Tommy is a big kid like me and probably doesn't need me to defend him, but he is special. Tommy, Dwayne Gueiselman (sorry for the spelling) the Taylor family and there are others, but don't come on this site and even think about disparaging these people. They are as honest, god fearing high moral value people as could ever enter this industry. They are also fun to deal with and that is important, but with this group it goes farther, THEY ACTUALLY CARE. If I feel like I have failed one more time and that all my lifes work is for nought I call Tommy. If I need support 24/7 any time of night day, I call Tommy. This is someone that you could haul one load for and he would be there for you. I have never worked for someone that worried as much about my families future than this group. So if you think you can twist the scenario to out fox this group go for it, but I will make it a personal project to make you regret your decision. I recently suffered some sever burns do to my stupidty. I could have called Tommy, Dwayne others and asked for help and I would have gotten anyting I asked for. My family is pretty resourceful so I will save those favors for a time when it is really needed. I know they will be there for me as I would drop anything and everything for them.
Nancy my opinions are very unpopular. Thats fine it is time for me to try to wean myself from this forum. I am as old school as you could possibly get. It is time for Alfred and others to try to make sense of this. I'm not eloquent. I am plain language, very course and in your face. Life is short why do I need to mince words? It is easy for me to have ideas, hard for me to translate my brain to this medium without the actual thought being lost. Jeff Pearson is another with better ability to speak the ideas. Alfred I appreciate you really, just once in awhile a little long winded, but PLEASE don't stop. You and I have spoken on the phone, I really repect what you have tried to do. I have done all I can to try to make people realize that we do have control of what is to come in Bulk Freight. If you want the a for mentioned brokers to succeed and dominate this industry, support them. If you all want to go out of business hauling cheap garbage keep calling TQL. I have railed against these low lifes ( and if their lawyers want to play , come on) and have others tag on to the thread asking for TQL to call them. Now if I tell you if is fast acting poison and you insist on trying it for yourself you know the result.
Nancy, you can rest easy I'm going to try to refrain from another post. Until you again question the core group that have saved people like me.
Nancy, tata have nice life in the north.

Art Pfluger
These are my opinions and Mine alone. If you do not agree please reply, but please do not call me personally, unless you wish to sponsor my race car.
Replied on Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:54 AM CST
+ 2
Art-

You are great. Please don't ever put a filter on. The PC crowd is what has ruined this country.
Replied on Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 01:22 AM CST
This is a perfect example why we need a forum to get rid of people like Nancy not only from this site but from the industry.
Replied on Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 01:33 AM CST
I guess she thinks that we actually would believe that she would pass on the savings back to the customer, rather than lining her Canadian pockets. I wanna talk to these so called o/o you have been keeping happy ? Your one of the reasons we hear these guys talking about crap rates. Rather than trying to be our alli you have become an enemy, one of the reasons why well ummm you can figure out the rest, maybe
Replied on Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 01:41 AM CST
Art, hang in there. I am pretty sure that you may be getting calls like me. I actually have had a few threats, it is amazing when I inform them that they are threating the wrong guy. I tell them a couple of my Nightstalker stories and the usually cuts that crap out. I will try and get a little shorter on my statements. It is hard for me to do sometimes.
Replied on Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 06:06 AM CST
Originally Posted by: NANCY HARDER
Quote: "yes, my question was more to do with scheduling and budgeting for multiple loads, that is why some hedge for trucks that need to pulled in from farther away is needed as trucks are all in different locations, fairness to everyone in the planning is essential. thanks for your explanation. again, referring to multi load contracts, your explanation that you would give a carrier 20/MT more than he quoted you seems odd as it is the carrier that set the rate when asked to quote on it. Would you not decrease the shipper/customer rate to save them money and in turn give the carrier the rate he quoted? seems unfair to the shipper doing it your way by overpaying the truck, just an observation but not sure if we are on the same thought path...."

"by overpaying the truck"

Now that I have not seen!
Replied on Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 07:35 AM CST
Originally Posted by: NANCY HARDER
Quote: "yes, my question was more to do with scheduling and budgeting for multiple loads, that is why some hedge for trucks that need to pulled in from farther away is needed as trucks are all in different locations, fairness to everyone in the planning is essential. thanks for your explanation. again, referring to multi load contracts, your explanation that you would give a carrier 20/MT more than he quoted you seems odd as it is the carrier that set the rate when asked to quote on it. Would you not decrease the shipper/customer rate to save them money and in turn give the carrier the rate he quoted? seems unfair to the shipper doing it your way by overpaying the truck, just an observation but not sure if we are on the same thought path...."



"by overpaying the truck"


Nancy, I am sorry to keep coming back to this, but it really hit a nerve. I am not going to get in a rock throwing contest with anyone here, but I think you need to put the shovel down and work on a way to get some dirt back into the hole you have dug. I know nothing about the membership on this board, percent of brokers versus truckers, but I'm guessing more truckers than brokers. I am on the trucker side and I just have one question. In the case from above, if you have completed your work and bid the job, the shipper is happy with the rate, why would I as a trucker be willing to work for your company when you have stated your mindset that the truck could be overpaid?

I think you would have better relations with your truckers (which by the way is how in the end you make money) if you would throw them a bone every now and again. Yes, I have stated before that I think the truck should qoute the rate, but nothing is to stop the broker from saying, "oh no, this one pays xxxx, hope you remember that when I have a load that is just off the mark." I know I would feel better hauling a load a dime to cheap if typically you were 30 cents above my rate.

I just went over what I have written and I'm not going to change any of that, but will add;
Forget the case above and go straight to where the rubber hits the road. Why would truckers use a broker that has the mindset that the truck can be overpaid?

Check engin light on, have to change wiring harness in rocker boxes. I have no idea what that will end up being.
2290 due next month, $550.
Changed air bag on truck, $312.
Insurance $xxx per month.
Tires, $xxxx anytime.
Fuel, $xxx everyday.
Wages, $xxxx per week.

Now, tell us all how the truck can be OVERPAID!

rant off.

Replied on Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:27 PM CST
+ 1
Art..there are just a few who have seen the old times in trucking...these kids that started driving in the 90s and later haven't really seen the time in trucking where you made a living,didn't beat yourself up and above all had fun..so some of us are on the same page with trucking..I may get some people upset..I just want these people to use that thing between their hat band..as in THINK..and for them to know that we used to have brokers BUT they were trucking companies wanting to make their own customers happy by getting the load covered..sometimes your dead area was their main lane and their dead area was your main lane so you would even trade..everybody pretty well working together...now its a feeding frenzy..I can do it for 20 cents a mile..its my back haul..and then out of the woodwork we have freight brokers..just like produce brokers..do you know how many produce brokers sell that box of lettuce? Or produce? Every one of them adding a little here and there..until you get it at the store..funny thing..the farmer used to just sell it to the local store..even Asian grocery stores have fresh less expensive produce ..because they don't deal with brokers...and they demand fresh..so just why do we have brokers? To find truckers freight?to cover loads for the shipper? I guess nobody ever heard of a dispatcher? Ohhh that's right we aren't making the money we used to so small companies can't afford one..when I first got started I drove for a two truck company..it was me and my boss..he only drove when he wanted out of the house..the rest for the time he looked for loads and covered them for his customers...but then we were making money..how many 1-2 truck companies does the boss stay home today? And funny thing..we all had fun..helped each other..and made money..and today? Your so afraid of somebody stealing your load,and when a truck is broke down on the shoulder..you don't get over and some try to see just how close they can get to the broke down truck..welcome to today's trucking..Thank GOD Im not just starting but slowing down..
Replied on Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 02:11 PM CST
Originally Posted by: JEFF PEARSON
Quote: "Art..there are just a few who have seen the old times in trucking...these kids that started driving in the 90s and later haven't really seen the time in trucking where you made a living,didn't beat yourself up and above all had fun..so some of us are on the same page with trucking..I may get some people upset..I just want these people to use that thing between their hat band..as in THINK..and for them to know that we used to have brokers BUT they were trucking companies wanting to make their own customers happy by getting the load covered..sometimes your dead area was their main lane and their dead area was your main lane so you would even trade..everybody pretty well working together...now its a feeding frenzy..I can do it for 20 cents a mile..its my back haul..and then out of the woodwork we have freight brokers..just like produce brokers..do you know how many produce brokers sell that box of lettuce? Or produce? Every one of them adding a little here and there..until you get it at the store..funny thing..the farmer used to just sell it to the local store..even Asian grocery stores have fresh less expensive produce ..because they don't deal with brokers...and they demand fresh..so just why do we have brokers? To find truckers freight?to cover loads for the shipper? I guess nobody ever heard of a dispatcher? Ohhh that's right we aren't making the money we used to so small companies can't afford one..when I first got started I drove for a two truck company..it was me and my boss..he only drove when he wanted out of the house..the rest for the time he looked for loads and covered them for his customers...but then we were making money..how many 1-2 truck companies does the boss stay home today? And funny thing..we all had fun..helped each other..and made money..and today? Your so afraid of somebody stealing your load,and when a truck is broke down on the shoulder..you don't get over and some try to see just how close they can get to the broke down truck..welcome to today's trucking..Thank GOD Im not just starting but slowing down.."

Jeff, I guess I really did learn the old school ways. I am that owner that dispatches my trucks, and only go out when I want to go on a vacation. Or from time to time I have to sit in the seat until I find a new driver.
Replied on Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 06:31 AM CST
+ 1
I have talked with quite a few hundred brokers in the past.It seems like most of them like to make a 18% margin on their loads,or more.
Instead of double brokering freight,how about a carrier trip leasing loads out?


Replied on Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 11:44 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: STEVE JORAMO
Quote: "An older driver once told me a GOOD Broker will take 8%, and with an advance 10% and give the rest to the carrier. "

That's the way it used to be. And most brokers gave you a copy of the invoice they had billed the shipper.
Replied on Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 06:30 PM CST
Originally Posted by: JERRY BECK
Quote: "That's the way it used to be. And most brokers gave you a copy of the invoice they had billed the shipper."


When I got back in this, for several months, my driver was to write the rate on the paperwork. A month or so ago, we were told not to put it on the paperwork, rather put it on a sticky note. My rate per mile has not changed, but I can tell you we have never seen the original / copy (of) invoice.

Now you have me thinking.
Replied on Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 07:54 PM CST
Originally Posted by: ARNIE SHEARER
Quote: " When I got back in this, for several months, my driver was to write the rate on the paperwork. A month or so ago, we were told not to put it on the paperwork, rather put it on a sticky note. My rate per mile has not changed, but I can tell you we have never seen the original / copy (of) invoice. Now you have me thinking."

I pulled for some of the best and some of the worst but both paid on time and were up front with the pay. That's more than I can say about these modern day brokers.

The best reefer broker I ever used was Walter Bailey in Plainfield, WI. He's been passed away many years but just a few years back his daughter Amanda Brokerage was still going strong and just as honest as her dad and the check is good.

The worst was in Haines City Fla. There were only 2 brokers in town there and I'll not call the bad ones name but the bad one was not [email protected] He was good.
Replied on Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 03:53 PM CST
+ 1

Former trucking company operator gets 3 years, to pay $500k for double brokering loads


The operator of an Illinois-based trucking company who pleaded guilty in December to wire fraud has been sentenced in U.S. District Court in Chicago to three years in prison and three years supervised release. He was also ordered to pay $532,000 restitution in connection with an illegal double-brokering scheme, the DOT Office of Inspector General announced Thursday.

Dragan Simovski, operator of Freedom Transportation, Inc., was charged with wire fraud and mail fraud in April 2013. Simovski admitted that he and other individuals were involved in a fraudulent double brokering scheme, where they falsely represented that Freedom Transportation would use its own trucks to transport freight, knowing Freedom had no trucks.

As part of the scheme, he would enter into contracts with companies on behalf of Freedom, promising to transport their freight. He provided information about the freight loads to a co-conspirator broker knowing the broker would find other companies to transport and deliver the freight.

Simovski and the co-conspirator agreed Freedom would bill the customers if they had kept and performed the jobs, knowing in many instances they would not pay the companies that actually did the work.

The loss to the companies that actually delivered the freight was approximately $532,000.

The reason for us all to do our due diligence.

Replied on Mon, Jul 06, 2015 at 10:03 AM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: ARNIE SHEARER
Quote: " When I got back in this, for several months, my driver was to write the rate on the paperwork. A month or so ago, we were told not to put it on the paperwork, rather put it on a sticky note. My rate per mile has not changed, but I can tell you we have never seen the original / copy (of) invoice. Now you have me thinking."

And here is the way it is now, carrier companies will split and start their own brokerage division and they filter all their loads for the o/o's through that company. oh yes you see the " original " invoice but it is for that division, you never see the original deal made by the mother company any more, and you make your percentage from the invoice. they don't have to do it with the company drivers as they do not get paid percentage here. it sucks i think.

Replied on Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 11:40 PM CST
I was told 10-15%, to broker a load right?
Replied on Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 07:24 AM CST
Donald, that is and should be the standard in the industry when it is possible. But on some loads it is just not there, you may only make as little as 6% on a smaller load, because if you were to take anymore the truck would not make enough money. The best thing to do as a broker is to stay away from customers that don't pay enough that the broker and trucker alike can make money. What we try and do with our broker customers is shoot them our rate for the truck, suggest they take our rate and mark it up by their desired percentage, go to the shipper and inform them that you have a truck right now to suit their needs but this is the cost. It works about 90% of the time. Everybody wins in this situation, very rarely does everbody win in the other.
Replied on Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 09:31 AM CST
Thanks Alfred Jordan for the imformation,i want to be fair and not cheat nobody,,but i want to make money also!!
Have a great day!
Replied on Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:18 AM CST
+ 1
The double Brokerage is when one broker is entrusted with a load to deliver under his insurance and authorites but resells it to another broker at a cheaper price without informing the Customer/Shipper
Replied on Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 12:33 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DONALD CRAIG
Quote: "Thanks Alfred Jordan for the imformation,i want to be fair and not cheat nobody,,but i want to make money also!! Have a great day!"

As long as you are bidding right, you should make money, the truck should make money, and the shipper will still get a little bit of a discount. The shippers expect to receive a huge discount, the broker then in turn has to get their cut, then there is hardly nothing left for the trucker.

When the broker takes the truckers rate, marks it up at an acceptable margin, makes sure the shipper receives a small discount. All parties win.
Replied on Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 10:52 PM CST
According to the DOT double brokering occurs when a broker offers a load to a carrier via any other source and that source is being paid a fee of any kind.

IE.. Dispatch services are considered to have double brokered a load if they take a fee for finding and arranging a load for a carrier.

Consequently most dispatch services don't have a brokers license and are therefore in violation of Federal Laws. The DOT stated that they are aware of the problems and that is wide spread, but they're short staffed and can't persue violators. None the less they are still breaking the law. The DOT did say that they persue violators (dispatch services or any other service) when a complaint is made.


Replied on Mon, Oct 05, 2015 at 06:49 PM CST
Originally Posted by: JASON WEAST
Quote: "Tommy I have pulled a few loads with you last year and your guys were some of the best I've ever worked with. We all appreciate your honesty. Miss Nancy I am interpretating your statement as that u are stating that u don't help the trucker u re hoping his rate is less than your offering so u can gouge the shit out of him? If this is true which I hope it's not, I hope and pray u go out of business tonight, because this is one of our biggest problems. At any rate your statement makes u look like a very piss poor individual "

Wow, I just saw this.... I pull for Tommy also and will continue to do so. As a matter of fact, I had to go take care of some family business in Mexico where there is little to no cell service. I was gone 7 days and turned my trucks over to Tommy to run while I was gone. My drivers dealt with him and even tho I had a knucklehead at the time, I was extremely happy with what i returned to. Rock on Tommy.

I cannot believe Nancy would actually make these statements on here. I wonder how her business has bloomed after these staements.