That would be triple brokering. In my environment, double brokering is when a broker gets a load from a shipper, brokers it to a carrier who agrees to haul it and instead of hauling it, then brokers the same load for less money to another carrier. Whether or not they have broker authority does not change double brokering, without the broker authority it is breaking the law.

Jason I got an idea, we could get some prepaid gift cards sell them as per mile rate cards. The truckers could prepay for the amount of miles that they want to run, when the called on the load the broker could just deduct from their per mile card the number of miles that they wanted to run. The broker then in return could keep all the money for the miles that the shipper is paying. I think I just figured out a new business model, we could sell these cards at the truckstops and I bet these mile pounders would just jump all over them. LOL

I would LOVE to make $400 on any single load I broker out LOL, I can promise you this, I have NEVER been able to make that on any load I've ever brokered LOL. Maybe I'm doing it wrong LOL. I'm not wanting to start an argument here but if I was the greedy broker from your first example I would only have to work 3 days per week and could spend the rest of my time driving for you hauling your good paying loads and retire in 10yrs LOL. Keep up the posts, I actually DO enjoy reading them from all you guys.

An older driver once told me a GOOD Broker will take 8%, and with an advance 10% and give the rest to the carrier.

so what are you saying, if the customer says he wants a load to move for 120/ton and you find a truck for 90/ton you lower your rate after the customer has already told you what to move it for and agreed on it? Just curious.....

so you would pay the truck more even when they told you what their rate is? which was 90/ton....

Tommy I have pulled a few loads with you last year and your guys were some of the best I've ever worked with. We all appreciate your honesty. Miss Nancy I am interpretating your statement as that u are stating that u don't help the trucker u re hoping his rate is less than your offering so u can gouge the shit out of him? If this is true which I hope it's not, I hope and pray u go out of business tonight, because this is one of our biggest problems. At any rate your statement makes u look like a very piss poor individual

Your right. I should of said you and your company are VERY BAD FOR BUSINESS. how's that? No cuss words there miss Nancy

I guess I am misunderstanging your whole question from the first. If a customer gives me 200 loads to move and we negotiate the price to move it the price I am being paid is set. Then I go to work getting trucks to haul it. If I am doing my job correctly and I know my market I know what it is going to take to get the loads moved. My customers only responsibility at that time is to load the trucks as I send them and pay me our negotiated price for the delivered loads. My customer knows what each load is costing him because we pre-negotiated the cost. I have on several occassions made mistakes and lost money or broke even on loads to get them moved for the price I negotiated with the customer. Its not my customers fault I didnt price it right to begin with and its not the trucks fault, its my fault and my responsibility.

That is a total 180 from your original statement, originally u stated if someone truck bid cheaper to you and you made more money than u thought u were going to make that u would pocket the difference. Now u explain that u realize u screwed by stating the first statement and u are now trying to ? Do better for the trucker ? Are we hearing u correctly. Please explain in more detail?

I will remember to call you the next time we are in Texas.

Right now is a hard market for everybody, those that have been greedy in the past will not survive. This includes the Trucker, Broker, and the Shipper as well.

Those of us that own our stuff can afford to park it versus taking a loss to just keep those tires rolling. The rest that are addicted to the drug (miles, money) they will be most likely out of business over the next year.

I have been eyeballing a lot of nice trucks at the Auctions over the past few months. I know for a fact that I saw a lot of them last year passing me on the road hauling hoppers. What do you guys think is going to happen when the market starts to pick back up. All of us that had loyal customers that rode it out with us, will not be interested in dealing with all of you that are out there sticking it to the truckers. Guys like Tommy, Jim, and the others will excel because they either own trucks or have owned trucks, and understand the pain that is involved with the running of the road. The rest of you that are functioning under example 1, will find yourselves working with those that either have one foot in the business graveyard or are fresh meat in the truckers butcher shop. Either way you will be having a multiple of problems, such as not showing up to PU the load, equipment breaking down, DOT out of services, or the worst an accident killing somebody due to being ran ragged because they have to pound more miles. For all you individuals that continue to take advantage of those that are taking the largest risk, Shame on YOU!!! You are lucky that you do not meet me personally, I really enjoy beating up those that are beating up those that don't know better or can't defend themselves. Dishonest Brokers be warned, there is a new attitude about to erupt from the truckers.

This is the moment for the greedmonsters to make a decision:

You can either choose to make 5% - 10% of 100 peoples efforts, or you will end up making none of your own.

You can continue to take 30% - 50% off of each truck and then the trucks will be gone.

Think about it, NO TRUCKER= NO BROKER

NO BROKER will there will still be the TRUCKER

Power to the TRUCKER

Nancy you and Scott Wachtel should get together for tea. You could hold your pinky finger out while admiring your expensive clothes and massive shops >>>>>I'll leave it there for now. While I understand the terms of the site we are supposed to be adults if some colorful language offends you, You are REALLY in the wrong business. Scott and others ripped me for my language on a recent thread, was it appropriate, ??? but the person really PISSED ME OFF. All of you brilliant minds can overthink the obvious and run our industry segment further in the ground. DO you really need me to tell all of you how our BULK freight is disappearing while moving the product to other trailer types? Because they can move it for $1.10 per mile on a van instead of paying me $2.50 per mile as a bulk load. The answer to our problems is not broken english suggesting that my salvation is putting cars in my Walking Floor. Someone that I really respect, Mr.Schut, recently posted that the forum might be our undoing. I am trying to give up on the site. For People to dislike my thoughts or words is fine that is their opinion and I WANT TO HEAR IT. The Forum in my opinion is for all of us to have a voice, regardless of the size of our operation, but when people call me on my personal cell phone to rip me for my adult language, thats to far. I am a big kid and I will survive, not that big a deal, but if you really think that adult language on here is inappropiate calling me personally is more so, I think.
I'm back on this forum as you crossed the line for me when you are questioning the morality of Tommy Wilhelm. Thats one step to far for me. Nancy your ethics and morality in dealing with me the trucker is self evident. You would gladly put that "EXTRA" money in your pocket. I know I'm not supposed to call individuals out on here, but it is so tempting.
Nancy, I've been in this industry longer than you could spell TRUCK. There is no person in this industry with higher morals than Mr.Wilhelm. I know that Tommy is a big kid like me and probably doesn't need me to defend him, but he is special. Tommy, Dwayne Gueiselman (sorry for the spelling) the Taylor family and there are others, but don't come on this site and even think about disparaging these people. They are as honest, god fearing high moral value people as could ever enter this industry. They are also fun to deal with and that is important, but with this group it goes farther, THEY ACTUALLY CARE. If I feel like I have failed one more time and that all my lifes work is for nought I call Tommy. If I need support 24/7 any time of night day, I call Tommy. This is someone that you could haul one load for and he would be there for you. I have never worked for someone that worried as much about my families future than this group. So if you think you can twist the scenario to out fox this group go for it, but I will make it a personal project to make you regret your decision. I recently suffered some sever burns do to my stupidty. I could have called Tommy, Dwayne others and asked for help and I would have gotten anyting I asked for. My family is pretty resourceful so I will save those favors for a time when it is really needed. I know they will be there for me as I would drop anything and everything for them.
Nancy my opinions are very unpopular. Thats fine it is time for me to try to wean myself from this forum. I am as old school as you could possibly get. It is time for Alfred and others to try to make sense of this. I'm not eloquent. I am plain language, very course and in your face. Life is short why do I need to mince words? It is easy for me to have ideas, hard for me to translate my brain to this medium without the actual thought being lost. Jeff Pearson is another with better ability to speak the ideas. Alfred I appreciate you really, just once in awhile a little long winded, but PLEASE don't stop. You and I have spoken on the phone, I really repect what you have tried to do. I have done all I can to try to make people realize that we do have control of what is to come in Bulk Freight. If you want the a for mentioned brokers to succeed and dominate this industry, support them. If you all want to go out of business hauling cheap garbage keep calling TQL. I have railed against these low lifes ( and if their lawyers want to play , come on) and have others tag on to the thread asking for TQL to call them. Now if I tell you if is fast acting poison and you insist on trying it for yourself you know the result.
Nancy, you can rest easy I'm going to try to refrain from another post. Until you again question the core group that have saved people like me.
Nancy, tata have nice life in the north.

Art Pfluger
These are my opinions and Mine alone. If you do not agree please reply, but please do not call me personally, unless you wish to sponsor my race car.

This is a perfect example why we need a forum to get rid of people like Nancy not only from this site but from the industry.

Art, hang in there. I am pretty sure that you may be getting calls like me. I actually have had a few threats, it is amazing when I inform them that they are threating the wrong guy. I tell them a couple of my Nightstalker stories and the usually cuts that crap out. I will try and get a little shorter on my statements. It is hard for me to do sometimes.

"by overpaying the truck"


Nancy, I am sorry to keep coming back to this, but it really hit a nerve. I am not going to get in a rock throwing contest with anyone here, but I think you need to put the shovel down and work on a way to get some dirt back into the hole you have dug. I know nothing about the membership on this board, percent of brokers versus truckers, but I'm guessing more truckers than brokers. I am on the trucker side and I just have one question. In the case from above, if you have completed your work and bid the job, the shipper is happy with the rate, why would I as a trucker be willing to work for your company when you have stated your mindset that the truck could be overpaid?

I think you would have better relations with your truckers (which by the way is how in the end you make money) if you would throw them a bone every now and again. Yes, I have stated before that I think the truck should qoute the rate, but nothing is to stop the broker from saying, "oh no, this one pays xxxx, hope you remember that when I have a load that is just off the mark." I know I would feel better hauling a load a dime to cheap if typically you were 30 cents above my rate.

I just went over what I have written and I'm not going to change any of that, but will add;
Forget the case above and go straight to where the rubber hits the road. Why would truckers use a broker that has the mindset that the truck can be overpaid?

Check engin light on, have to change wiring harness in rocker boxes. I have no idea what that will end up being.
2290 due next month, $550.
Changed air bag on truck, $312.
Insurance $xxx per month.
Tires, $xxxx anytime.
Fuel, $xxx everyday.
Wages, $xxxx per week.

Now, tell us all how the truck can be OVERPAID!

rant off.

Jeff, I guess I really did learn the old school ways. I am that owner that dispatches my trucks, and only go out when I want to go on a vacation. Or from time to time I have to sit in the seat until I find a new driver.

That's the way it used to be. And most brokers gave you a copy of the invoice they had billed the shipper.

I pulled for some of the best and some of the worst but both paid on time and were up front with the pay. That's more than I can say about these modern day brokers.

The best reefer broker I ever used was Walter Bailey in Plainfield, WI. He's been passed away many years but just a few years back his daughter Amanda Brokerage was still going strong and just as honest as her dad and the check is good.

The worst was in Haines City Fla. There were only 2 brokers in town there and I'll not call the bad ones name but the bad one was not Lindy@Commercial. He was good.

Donald, that is and should be the standard in the industry when it is possible. But on some loads it is just not there, you may only make as little as 6% on a smaller load, because if you were to take anymore the truck would not make enough money. The best thing to do as a broker is to stay away from customers that don't pay enough that the broker and trucker alike can make money. What we try and do with our broker customers is shoot them our rate for the truck, suggest they take our rate and mark it up by their desired percentage, go to the shipper and inform them that you have a truck right now to suit their needs but this is the cost. It works about 90% of the time. Everybody wins in this situation, very rarely does everbody win in the other.

The double Brokerage is when one broker is entrusted with a load to deliver under his insurance and authorites but resells it to another broker at a cheaper price without informing the Customer/Shipper

According to the DOT double brokering occurs when a broker offers a load to a carrier via any other source and that source is being paid a fee of any kind.

IE.. Dispatch services are considered to have double brokered a load if they take a fee for finding and arranging a load for a carrier.

Consequently most dispatch services don't have a brokers license and are therefore in violation of Federal Laws. The DOT stated that they are aware of the problems and that is wide spread, but they're short staffed and can't persue violators. None the less they are still breaking the law. The DOT did say that they persue violators (dispatch services or any other service) when a complaint is made.