Home > Forum > Late Fees

Late fees

Jan 20, 2020 at 05:01 PM CST
+ 24 - 4

Hello, everyone. I've been a broker for a couple of years now and would like to share my side of things as far as late fees go. We as brokers apply late fees to avoid being personally penalized by our customers for a carrier delivering late. My question to all the carriers is, why fight over it? If it's clearly stated on your rate con, you've been informed from the moment you booked the load. In my experience, A LOT of carriers don't tell the broker they're running late and don't answer their phone or email. I don't get it. To build a good relationship with brokers and customers, why not tell them what's going on? The customer is ultimately the one that decides whether or not the rate is going to get cut and if no one can get a hold of the carrier, it's almost definitely going to be cut. This also hurts my relationships with my customers. I've actually been asked why I "couldn't get my carriers under control". I've had to take a lot of the blame when it comes to unresponsive carriers and I'm seeing a lot of forums on here badmouthing brokers.

My husband is an owner-op so I see the carrier side of things as well. I'm so on top of him with his paperwork, I will read over his paperwork completely because I don't want any surprises when it comes to rate reductions. If we're late ever, I tell the broker RIGHT AWAY. They can always get in touch with me or my husband for updates. I would never not respond and put us in a position where the broker will take money off. To date, my husband has NEVER had any money taken off. Communication is so important.

One other thing that nags at me and I wanted to put out there....Late paperwork submission fees. I always put this on my rate cons and the carriers sign them easily. But when I'm waiting a month or so and the carrier STILL hasn't sent in their POD after several attempts on my part to obtain it, I've put in time that goes unpaid trying to track the carrier down. Just as carriers want to be paid for their time, so do I. I shouldn't have to spend hours trying to get someone to answer their phone or email to get paperwork that I should have already received. Carriers try to bully me and get nasty when there are rate reductions and it is so uncalled for. It's no different than paying an overdraft fee from your bank or owing more on your rent for paying late.

I would love to see everyone work together and stop badmouthing each other, carriers and brokers alike. There's no reason EVER for people to be calling up and screaming and cursing at each other. Totally unprofessional.

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 09:06 AM CST
+ 4 - 2
If your customer doesn’t like the service available, they have the option to start their own private fleet, so why don’t they? Because we carriers are Still working for rates that are 40 Years old, because some of you are letting the shippers set the rates, instead of shutting the trucks off, and sending them elsewhere. It takes money to control drivers, and until you get the rates where they need to be, the revolving door will continue. If your customers don’t like stuff showing up late, they should have lobbied against the ELD. It will be a cold day in hell before I add any trucks to the market for the rates being offered, especially with the insurance situation going on.
Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 09:08 AM CST
+ 4

You get what you pay for. Pay better rates, get better carriers. Your complaints make it obvious you don't pay well.

Great rates get trailers pulled to delivery locations if the power unit is down. Great rates get temp drivers to operate the equipment to get it to the delivery site if the usual driver cannot. Great rates get top notch customer service. Great rates get fluent English speakers that can communicate with ease. Great rates get great results.

Poor rates get poor results. Poor rates get late deliveries. Poor rates get angry customers. Poor rates get junk equipment. Poor rates get poor attitudes. Poor rates get injured carriers and safety hazards. Poor rates gets flip flops, shorts and tee shirts. Poor rates get lack of communication. This is not rocket science.

Great rate > poor rate

Great carrier > poor driver

Carrier > driver

Different mentaliy, culture and history.

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 09:49 AM CST
+ 1 - 3
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "If your customer doesn’t like the service available, they have the option to start their own private fleet, so why don’t they? Because we carriers are Still working for rates that are 40 Years old, because some of you are letting the shippers set the rates, instead of shutting the trucks off, and sending them elsewhere. It takes money to control drivers, and until you get the rates where they need to be, the revolving door will continue. If your customers don’t like stuff showing up late, they should have lobbied against the ELD. It will be a cold day in hell before I add any trucks to the market for the rates being offered, especially with the insurance situation going on."

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Why so quick to jump down my throat? If you're not happy with the rate, don't take the load. The brokers can't make the customers pay more than they're comfortable with. Demanding higher rates than the customer is willing to pay will eventually lead to NO customers. You wouldn't pay more money on something you couldn't afford, right? I only wish customers would come on these forums and see how carriers talk about them. It's a potential blacklist for your company.

And the ELD helps keep people from driving so long they're falling asleep at the wheel. Everyone who has complained about the ELD sounds like they were illegally driving when there were just paper logs. We don't need our roads to be more dangerous, there is enough of that with drivers.

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 10:09 AM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "You get what you pay for. Pay better rates, get better carriers. Your complaints make it obvious you don't pay well. Great rates get trailers pulled to delivery locations if the power unit is down. Great rates get temp drivers to operate the equipment to get it to the delivery site if the usual driver cannot. Great rates get top notch customer service. Great rates get fluent English speakers that can communicate with ease. Great rates get great results. Poor rates get poor results. Poor rates get late deliveries. Poor rates get angry customers. Poor rates get junk equipment. Poor rates get poor attitudes. Poor rates get injured carriers and safety hazards. Poor rates gets flip flops, shorts and tee shirts. Poor rates get lack of communication. This is not rocket science. Great rate > poor rate Great carrier > poor driver Carrier > driver Different mentaliy, culture and history."

Here we go again, badmouthing and making assumptions. If you're late, no matter what the pay is, you're late. Period. Drivers have to be responsible. If you can't pick up the phone or send an email with an update, you're not being responsible. It sounds childish to say the driver will be late because the pay is low. Why be late when you will probably get even less on that low rate?? That just doesn't make sense to me. And I'll say it again, if you don't like the rate, don't book it.

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 11:39 AM CST
+ 2
Respectfully Kimberly, nobody is jumping down your throat. How many brokerages are going under in 2018 through 2020? These people's opinions aren't wrong. Every carrier that's responded to you has also placed blame on bottom feeding carriers....
Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 11:39 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "This is exactly what I'm talking about. Why so quick to jump down my throat? If you're not happy with the rate, don't take the load. The brokers can't make the customers pay more than they're comfortable with. Demanding higher rates than the customer is willing to pay will eventually lead to NO customers. You wouldn't pay more money on something you couldn't afford, right? I only wish customers would come on these forums and see how carriers talk about them. It's a potential blacklist for your company. And the ELD helps keep people from driving so long they're falling asleep at the wheel. Everyone who has complained about the ELD sounds like they were illegally driving when there were just paper logs. We don't need our roads to be more dangerous, there is enough of that with drivers. "

Why are you playing the victim card? You asked questions, I gave answers in a polite manner, never bad mouthing anyone, and only stating facts.
Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 11:39 AM CST
+ 3
After reading your eld post I no longer give credibility to your posts. The eld, specifically hours of service is killing people. Anybody that believes otherwise is definitely not well informed on the industry. I dont mean that as a personal jab, but that is truly crap. The hours of service puts me in dangerous situations weekly when the weather is bad. Itwasn't cheating , it's making an educated decision based on circumstances that you cant possibly understand from your office where a restroom is 7 steps away...
Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 11:53 AM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "This is exactly what I'm talking about. Why so quick to jump down my throat? If you're not happy with the rate, don't take the load. The brokers can't make the customers pay more than they're comfortable with. Demanding higher rates than the customer is willing to pay will eventually lead to NO customers. You wouldn't pay more money on something you couldn't afford, right? I only wish customers would come on these forums and see how carriers talk about them. It's a potential blacklist for your company. And the ELD helps keep people from driving so long they're falling asleep at the wheel. Everyone who has complained about the ELD sounds like they were illegally driving when there were just paper logs. We don't need our roads to be more dangerous, there is enough of that with drivers. "

It isn’t so much the eld as it is the frieght company putting restrictions on loading at a certain time say 8:30. It is the other end that shuts down at 3:30. And if you want to get unloaded get the cash out.

Wish the eld hrs could carry over to the next day. If the receiver breaks down you sit. You ask for compensation they say sure but you are not welcome back here

way too many companies haul too cheap

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 11:53 AM CST
- 4

Sorry, that's wrong. I go on the road with my husband sometimes and run my office from the sleeper. I've been right there where the drivers are. I know what it's like, it's not easy driving in bad weather conditions but we do it because it is our job as a carrier. We don't want to disappoint our brokers or customers. We do not drive recklessly and if it gets bad enough where my husband is not comfortable, we stop. It's that simple.

If you all had paid attention to the bottom of my first post on this forum, I'm looking for people (carriers AND brokers) to work together instead of badmouthing each other. I have lost count on how many times I've been cursed out and screamed at by unprofessional truck drivers. I do NOT curse or yell at anyone who calls me.

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 12:08 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "After reading your eld post I no longer give credibility to your posts. The eld, specifically hours of service is killing people. Anybody that believes otherwise is definitely not well informed on the industry. I dont mean that as a personal jab, but that is truly crap. The hours of service puts me in dangerous situations weekly when the weather is bad. Itwasn't cheating , it's making an educated decision based on circumstances that you cant possibly understand from your office where a restroom is 7 steps away... "

Again, when these things happen, the broker and/or customer need to be informed immediately. This goes back to my first post in this thread about late fees. Everyone (customers, brokers, carriers) know about the ELD restrictions. It's the responsibility of the driver to use their best judgement when traveling in poor weather conditions and to keep the broker or customer informed of all delays. That rarely happens in my experience. I'm not being combative, I promise you. But the drivers are our eyes out there on the road. If they don't communicate with us, that's a problem.

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 12:20 PM CST
+ 1
Have you ever been yelled at by someone you paid 4 dollars per loaded mile to? My companies pay me great, we talk on the phone alot, I've never yelled at a company, my phone calls with them usually last forever because we bs with each other because we care about each other, and we drink beer together. They drive 80 miles for me when I pop an alternator belt in the middle of nowhere.

My regular companies pay me great, I'm never late, I've never been rejected, I never tell at people, I'm not 800 pounds and I don't have a pee bucket beside my seat, and hours of service makes me puke....If you don't want to be lumped into bad broker categories, show us your take on the loads and dont lump us into disgusting prick trucker category
Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 12:20 PM CST
+ 2 - 1
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "Here we go again, badmouthing and making assumptions. If you're late, no matter what the pay is, you're late. Period. Drivers have to be responsible. If you can't pick up the phone or send an email with an update, you're not being responsible. It sounds childish to say the driver will be late because the pay is low. Why be late when you will probably get even less on that low rate?? That just doesn't make sense to me. And I'll say it again, if you don't like the rate, don't book it. "

It doesn't make sense to you because you're completely ignorant to the business and it's associated conundrums. It's painfully obvious! When you go to McDonalds do you expect them to bring it to your table to you? Do you expect them to refill your drinks or continually check to see if you need anything during your dining experience? No, you don't. Why not?! Because it's a cheap meal and you know it. I'm certain you expect all those things at a nice steak house though; don't you? Why? Because it cost more for the SERVICE! Nobody is going break any laws, nor be bothered with giving you stupid updates on your garbage rate freight. Period.

Truly good rate freight pays for the service and reliabilty that walks beside it in tandem. Brokers that have freight like that are not posting on load boards unless it's some sort of emergency. They have actual contracts in place with their genuine customer who does not go anywhere else for their transporation needs unlike your pathetic "Agreement" that has very little legal stiction. When the load is in dager of being late on a time sensitive delivery the rate demands a premium to cover expenses to ensure it makes it on time. Truck breaks down? The carrier can afford to repower it! Driver is sick, injured or out of hours? The carrier can afford to get a temp driver in the saddle! You have zero business in this business. You're just another reseller. Another set of hands in the carrier's pocket. Another monkey on his back.

Yes, you can call it an assumption all you want but I KNOW you're not paying. In fact; how about you prove me wrong? Prove that I'm assuming. Provide YOUR proof that you're not peddling cheap trash to the industry. Tell us what you have going on? Pick/drop zips, commodity and rate. Tell us. Share with the class! Otherwise, I already know it's crap.

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 12:30 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: GREG BOMMELMAN
Quote: "It isn’t so much the eld as it is the frieght company putting restrictions on loading at a certain time say 8:30. It is the other end that shuts down at 3:30. And if you want to get unloaded get the cash out. Wish the eld hrs could carry over to the next day. If the receiver breaks down you sit. You ask for compensation they say sure but you are not welcome back here way too many companies haul too cheap "

A carrier should be paid for their time if they have to wait for the shipper or receiver overnight, I completely agree. I understand what you mean in that way per the ELD restrictions. I have noticed when we do a load rather than just an empty trailer move that hardly anything is right from what the broker told us to what the shipper/receiver have for what time you have to be there, etc. There's miscommunication somewhere along the line and they usually blame the driver. That isn't right!

What I meant before about the ELD being a good thing is that it forces the drivers to take a break that they almost definitely need. No one should have to work 24 hours straight or even just long enough to sleep for a few hours. A lot of our laws are more for safety and this is one of them. I don't always agree with the terms of the ELD but I do think it's helpful for the driver's safety and well-being.

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 01:12 PM CST
- 2
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "It doesn't make sense to you because you're completely ignorant to the business and it's associated conundrums. It's painfully obvious! When you go to McDonalds do you expect them to bring it to your table to you? Do you expect them to refill your drinks or continually check to see if you need anything during your dining experience? No, you don't. Why not?! Because it's a cheap meal and you know it. I'm certain you expect all those things at a nice steak house though; don't you? Why? Because it cost more for the SERVICE! Nobody is going break any laws, nor be bothered with giving you stupid updates on your garbage rate freight. Period. Truly good rate freight pays for the service and reliabilty that walks beside it in tandem. Brokers that have freight like that are not posting on load boards unless it's some sort of emergency. They have actual contracts in place with their genuine customer who does not go anywhere else for their transporation needs unlike your pathetic "Agreement" that has very little legal stiction. When the load is in dager of being late on a time sensitive delivery the rate demands a premium to cover expenses to ensure it makes it on time. Truck breaks down? The carrier can afford to repower it! Driver is sick, injured or out of hours? The carrier can afford to get a temp driver in the saddle! You have zero business in this business. You're just another reseller. Another set of hands in the carrier's pocket. Another monkey on his back. Yes, you can call it an assumption all you want but I KNOW you're not paying. In fact; how about you prove me wrong? Prove that I'm assuming. Provide YOUR proof that you're not peddling cheap trash to the industry. Tell us what you have going on? Pick/drop zips, commodity and rate. Tell us. Share with the class! Otherwise, I already know it's crap."

This part in particular really drew my attention, David Krouse: "Nobody is going break any laws, nor be bothered with giving you stupid updates on your garbage rate freight. Period." Who would be breaking any laws? When did I ever encourage anyone to break a law?? And to not give the broker updates? This post says a lot about you.

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 01:12 PM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Have you ever been yelled at by someone you paid 4 dollars per loaded mile to? My companies pay me great, we talk on the phone alot, I've never yelled at a company, my phone calls with them usually last forever because we bs with each other because we care about each other, and we drink beer together. They drive 80 miles for me when I pop an alternator belt in the middle of nowhere. My regular companies pay me great, I'm never late, I've never been rejected, I never tell at people, I'm not 800 pounds and I don't have a pee bucket beside my seat, and hours of service makes me puke....If you don't want to be lumped into bad broker categories, show us your take on the loads and dont lump us into disgusting prick trucker category "

My customers don't pay anywhere near $4/mile so kudos to carriers that find loads that pay that well. Whether the rate is good or not, many truck drivers I've worked with (I'm not saying all, I've also worked with a lot of great truck drivers) are nasty off the jump and I honestly get to the point where I can't wait for them to deliver so we don't have to talk anymore. I've had good carriers take a low rate to pay for fuel and I've had bad carriers get a good-paying load and do it horribly. This good carrier=good pay vs bad carrier=bad pay may be true in a lot of cases but not always. NOT ALWAYS.

That's great that you have good relationships with the companies you work with. You sound like you're a reliable, reputable carrier but are angry. I'm not saying I'm always right but no one is. Just giving my side of things. I don't see that many brokers post on here.....

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 01:12 PM CST
+ 2

Do you have a set price for late fee? Also what kind of window is given before late fee applies?

With the above questions in mind, how is the detention policy worded in the rate con? The typical wishy washy driver must call for approval or do you actually lay out the specifics? Rate, allowed "free time" and any hoops to jump through?

Are the basics of the 2 policies built in the same way? You can't have a $500 late fee after 1 hr late and expect a driver to wait for 2 hrs free @ $25/hr with a $200 cap. Should be a 2 way street. $500 for 1 hr late should pay $500 for holding a driver more than an hr.

As far as late fees for paperwork. That needs to be a 2 way street also. Example, you want paperwork within 5 days and charge $100 after that. Shouldn't you pay carrier within 5 days and if not add that same $100 you charge?

Theses shady one way street policies are why brokers like you get ragged on. How are we expected to work together when the deck is stacked against us from the start.

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 01:47 PM CST
+ 1
I'm not even remotely angry. Unfortunate side of internet conversation isn't it? Emotions are assumed. I'm passionate about my point, who isnt? Anytime someone is having a conversation with me, assume the emotions conveyed in a pub after beer 6. When it comes to fmcsa and dot, damn right I'm angry. They are making money off of bribery
Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 01:58 PM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: JOSH DRAYFAHL
Quote: "Do you have a set price for late fee? Also what kind of window is given before late fee applies? With the above questions in mind, how is the detention policy worded in the rate con? The typical wishy washy driver must call for approval or do you actually lay out the specifics? Rate, allowed "free time" and any hoops to jump through? Are the basics of the 2 policies built in the same way? You can't have a $500 late fee after 1 hr late and expect a driver to wait for 2 hrs free @ $25/hr with a $200 cap. Should be a 2 way street. $500 for 1 hr late should pay $500 for holding a driver more than an hr. As far as late fees for paperwork. That needs to be a 2 way street also. Example, you want paperwork within 5 days and charge $100 after that. Shouldn't you pay carrier within 5 days and if not add that same $100 you charge? Theses shady one way street policies are why brokers like you get ragged on. How are we expected to work together when the deck is stacked against us from the start. "

Josh,

Yes sir, late delivery fees usually apply after the 2nd day late at $50/day. I say usually because some customers will charge from day 1. I've actually had to eat a couple of the late fees myself because the customer will count the pick up date as day 1 and go 7-10 days from there, depending on their allowance for using the trailer. I honor what I told the carrier from the start by taking that late fee away from my commission because the carrier only did what they were told. As far as late paperwork fees, I put the amount on all my rate cons, which is $50/day after 7 days from scheduled delivery. My home office puts 36 hours but I don't honor that because I understand sometimes the drivers don't or aren't able to get their dispatcher the paperwork in a day or two. I don't hide anything as far as these fees but I'm seeing more and more carriers chewing me out because they didn't read their rate con.

Detention pay isn't worded in the rate con unfortunately, I've asked my home office to have it added in (it's something that shows up automatic and I don't have authority to do it myself) but they haven't done that. Typically with my customers, after waiting for 2 hours, they will pay between $150-250 for the driver's time. However, we have to know as soon as the waiting begins or the customer won't honor anything until he/she knows about it. I've had carriers wait 5-6 hours to tell me they were waiting and I fixed the issue within the hour. Of course the driver does need to call for approval so we know what's going on. If we don't know and it can't be proven, it's very hard to get the customer to pay for the extra time.

I do put the time frame the driver has with the trailer on the rate con. If anything changes, I encourage every driver to tell me. When the customer can't get an answer in a timely fashion, they usually aren't willing to NOT cut the rate.

I'm not sure what the late fees typically are for freight as I'm only doing power only trailers right now but I've never charged a carrier for being an hour late or even a day late UNLESS the customer charges from day 1. I've definitely never charged a carrier $500 a day or two late. I try to be lenient when possible.

When the carriers set up with us, it's in the contract they sign stating our standard pay is net 30. They've agreed to those terms when they set up with us. We do have other payment options that are quicker and I've seen a lot of carriers using factoring companies so they usually get paid pretty quickly. But from my broker's point of view, we can't start those 30 days or release payment until we've received the POD. We have to be able to prove the trailer was delivered, when and in what condition before any payments are made. The customers don't pay us without POD (most of them don't anyway).

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 02:17 PM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "This part in particular really drew my attention, David Krouse: "Nobody is going break any laws, nor be bothered with giving you stupid updates on your garbage rate freight. Period." Who would be breaking any laws? When did I ever encourage anyone to break a law?? And to not give the broker updates? This post says a lot about you. "

"I have noticed when we do a load rather than just an empty trailer move that hardly anything is right from what the broker told us to what the shipper/receiver have for what time you have to be there, etc."

...and this part really proves my point that you shouldn't be brokering freight when you (or your old man) run a truck like a driver instead of a carrier. You see, the difference is that a carrier sees absolutely zero difference between an "empty trailer move" as opposed to a load because to us the cost we must bear to make that move is the same. Our expenses do not alter regardless so we charge the same rate no matter what. "Empty moves", "back hauls" etc etc need to generate the same amount of revenue. Period. The fact that you, nor your old man has figured this out just proves my point.

I'm also still waiting to see some of your rates. Sounds like you're paying primo dollar to get top notch carriers so you should zero problem sharing withthe class. If the rate is so great than you would have absolutely no problem getting decent carriers. This boards is overflowing with hungry trucks. Just look at a post recently placed by a broker who doesn't even have any freight yet. Drivers are still falling all over him. Pick/drop zips, commodity and rate?

Carrier > driver

Incredibly simple formula.

Also, your opinons on the ELD (while ignoring the dangers it's caused and the REAL problem of the HOS) and factoring (another parasitic leech only around because of underfunded drivers want to pretend to be motor carrietrs) continue to show how green you are to the industry. Keep riding shotgun with your driver and leave the brokering to the more experienced (3PLs). We need another broker like you like a hole in the head.

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 04:47 PM CST
- 3
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: ""I have noticed when we do a load rather than just an empty trailer move that hardly anything is right from what the broker told us to what the shipper/receiver have for what time you have to be there, etc." ...and this part really proves my point that you shouldn't be brokering freight when you (or your old man) run a truck like a driver instead of a carrier. You see, the difference is that a carrier sees absolutely zero difference between an "empty trailer move" as opposed to a load because to us the cost we must bear to make that move is the same. Our expenses do not alter regardless so we charge the same rate no matter what. "Empty moves", "back hauls" etc etc need to generate the same amount of revenue. Period. The fact that you, nor your old man has figured this out just proves my point. I'm also still waiting to see some of your rates. Sounds like you're paying primo dollar to get top notch carriers so you should zero problem sharing withthe class. If the rate is so great than you would have absolutely no problem getting decent carriers. This boards is overflowing with hungry trucks. Just look at a post recently placed by a broker who doesn't even have any freight yet. Drivers are still falling all over him. Pick/drop zips, commodity and rate? Carrier > driver Incredibly simple formula. Also, your opinons on the ELD (while ignoring the dangers it's caused and the REAL problem of the HOS) and factoring (another parasitic leech only around because of underfunded drivers want to pretend to be motor carrietrs) continue to show how green you are to the industry. Keep riding shotgun with your driver and leave the brokering to the more experienced (3PLs). We need another broker like you like a hole in the head."

You are the most combative person I've spoken to on here. It proves my point that the truckers I deal with on a regular basis treat people like garbage.

I was referring to a load we did as a CARRIER, not from the broker end with what you quoted me on. Please stop making assumptions and attacking me. That's not what this forum is about!

And my husband is not my "old man". I find that disrespectful.

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 04:48 PM CST
+ 4
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "This is exactly what I'm talking about. Why so quick to jump down my throat? If you're not happy with the rate, don't take the load. The brokers can't make the customers pay more than they're comfortable with. Demanding higher rates than the customer is willing to pay will eventually lead to NO customers. You wouldn't pay more money on something you couldn't afford, right? I only wish customers would come on these forums and see how carriers talk about them. It's a potential blacklist for your company. And the ELD helps keep people from driving so long they're falling asleep at the wheel. Everyone who has complained about the ELD sounds like they were illegally driving when there were just paper logs. We don't need our roads to be more dangerous, there is enough of that with drivers. "

who are you trying the threaten here? i am a freight forwarder and i cannot believe you posted this. Punishment fees to carriers is absurd as you are not incurring any extra cost to yourselves if anything it shows you are not doing your job correctly.

Do you poll your trucks to ensure they are on time?

Do you check on those trucks to ensure they are not having issues along the way and ARE indeed going to deliver on time?

Don't even get me started on ELD, the only thing that system does is make drivers speed to their destination so they can get home with enough time to see their family. i noticed you never mention the shippers or receivers detaining trucks so they run out of hours and are not at all monitored and under no obligation to the ELD system. Also, if you know so little about this industry that you think everyone is a criminal, maybe choose a different industry.

If you need your tickets get on the phone and get them! Why make everyone wait to get paid and then you try to discount the carrier because he didn't submit his tickets? you dont get your rate hacked so why should he?

i have seen load sheets with numerous punitive charges and so i just say no thanks and take a better load.

The only company that stands to be black listed is yours.

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 05:01 PM CST
+ 3

i would have fired you a year ago.

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 06:20 PM CST
- 3
Originally Posted by: NANCY HARDER
Quote: "i would have fired you a year ago."

Did you get it all out of your system now? I'm not adding fuel to this fire any longer. You all just prove my point that most of you can't have a discussion about this without attacking me. I was hoping (silly me!) that I could get feedback from carriers and brokers alike in a respectful manner, not tearing each other down. The people in this industry are a joke

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 06:21 PM CST
+ 2
Originally Posted by: NANCY HARDER
Quote: "who are you trying the threaten here? i am a freight forwarder and i cannot believe you posted this. Punishment fees to carriers is absurd as you are not incurring any extra cost to yourselves if anything it shows you are not doing your job correctly. Do you poll your trucks to ensure they are on time? Do you check on those trucks to ensure they are not having issues along the way and ARE indeed going to deliver on time? Don't even get me started on ELD, the only thing that system does is make drivers speed to their destination so they can get home with enough time to see their family. i noticed you never mention the shippers or receivers detaining trucks so they run out of hours and are not at all monitored and under no obligation to the ELD system. Also, if you know so little about this industry that you think everyone is a criminal, maybe choose a different industry. If you need your tickets get on the phone and get them! Why make everyone wait to get paid and then you try to discount the carrier because he didn't submit his tickets? you dont get your rate hacked so why should he? i have seen load sheets with numerous punitive charges and so i just say no thanks and take a better load. The only company that stands to be black listed is yours."

Well said, Nancy. So many factors adding extra hazards that were not an issue before. A driver can stay up all night geeking on meth or coke but as long as he's logged off duty he's good to go after his 10! Safety lies in the individual and their choices. No law can make a person better inside.

Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 08:28 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "Well said, Nancy. So many factors adding extra hazards that were not an issue before. A driver can stay up all night geeking on meth or coke but as long as he's logged off duty he's good to go after his 10! Safety lies in the individual and their choices. No law can make a person better inside."

Amen david.
Replied on Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 08:28 PM CST
Kim, not that my advice is intelligent enough to matter, but here's what I think. You touched on subjects that cause monstrous hardships for us on a daily basis. I think you need to pay attention to what these people are saying. You obviously have enough pride in your work to defend yourself, which is good, but these are essentially your customers. This eld crap is life and death, and more annoying than an infected tooth, these rate discussions are how we feed our families. I say grow some tough skin and you'll fit in with these people and learn from them. I flipped out on dave, on this forum once, like a rabid honey badger, made a really ass of myself. He called me, rationalized his side of the discussion, turns out we get along great.
Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 07:25 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Kim, not that my advice is intelligent enough to matter, but here's what I think. You touched on subjects that cause monstrous hardships for us on a daily basis. I think you need to pay attention to what these people are saying. You obviously have enough pride in your work to defend yourself, which is good, but these are essentially your customers. This eld crap is life and death, and more annoying than an infected tooth, these rate discussions are how we feed our families. I say grow some tough skin and you'll fit in with these people and learn from them. I flipped out on dave, on this forum once, like a rabid honey badger, made a really ass of myself. He called me, rationalized his side of the discussion, turns out we get along great. "

Dale, my experience has shown me that carriers have quite a mouth on them. I've had an office job for most of my adult life and have never had to deal with this amount of BS until I started brokering. No one listens, everyone blames everyone and no one works on improving themselves or the situation. I started this post in the hopes of having a civil discussion but that's not going to happen here. And please know I do not lump you in with the mouthy people on here. You've been the nicest and most respectful person here.

Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 08:03 AM CST
If one wants to be a broker, one needs to know what their doing first, and understand how carriers think, that comes from studying under someone who knows what their doing to start with, and learning the ropes, before jumping in, one also needs to have a broker bond to repost loads from other brokers, wich most of us look up on the DOT website, to verify if someone is a broker or just pretending.
Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 09:46 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "If one wants to be a broker, one needs to know what their doing first, and understand how carriers think, that comes from studying under someone who knows what their doing to start with, and learning the ropes, before jumping in, one also needs to have a broker bond to repost loads from other brokers, wich most of us look up on the DOT website, to verify if someone is a broker or just pretending. "

Dave, before I jump to any conclusions I'm going to ask you if you're trying to tell me I don't know what I'm doing? Or are you speaking in general? Because I agree that someone should know what they're doing. I don't think most carriers understand the inner workings of a brokerage, just pass judgement and accuse us of being scammers. It gets frustrating. My point before when I said I know the carrier side of things is because I understand what carriers have to deal with but I'm NOT the same as you, you see and experience way more than I do. I don't drive a truck and I'm not on the road everyday. I was just trying to say I have more perspective than probably most brokers do.

Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 09:53 AM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "Dave, before I jump to any conclusions I'm going to ask you if you're trying to tell me I don't know what I'm doing? Or are you speaking in general? Because I agree that someone should know what they're doing. I don't think most carriers understand the inner workings of a brokerage, just pass judgement and accuse us of being scammers. It gets frustrating. My point before when I said I know the carrier side of things is because I understand what carriers have to deal with but I'm NOT the same as you, you see and experience way more than I do. I don't drive a truck and I'm not on the road everyday. I was just trying to say I have more perspective than probably most brokers do. "

What's your MC number?

Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 10:05 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "What's your MC number? "

David, please call me and I'll give it to you. 845-728-5216

Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 10:35 AM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "Josh, Yes sir, late delivery fees usually apply after the 2nd day late at $50/day. I say usually because some customers will charge from day 1. I've actually had to eat a couple of the late fees myself because the customer will count the pick up date as day 1 and go 7-10 days from there, depending on their allowance for using the trailer. I honor what I told the carrier from the start by taking that late fee away from my commission because the carrier only did what they were told. As far as late paperwork fees, I put the amount on all my rate cons, which is $50/day after 7 days from scheduled delivery. My home office puts 36 hours but I don't honor that because I understand sometimes the drivers don't or aren't able to get their dispatcher the paperwork in a day or two. I don't hide anything as far as these fees but I'm seeing more and more carriers chewing me out because they didn't read their rate con. Detention pay isn't worded in the rate con unfortunately, I've asked my home office to have it added in (it's something that shows up automatic and I don't have authority to do it myself) but they haven't done that. Typically with my customers, after waiting for 2 hours, they will pay between $150-250 for the driver's time. However, we have to know as soon as the waiting begins or the customer won't honor anything until he/she knows about it. I've had carriers wait 5-6 hours to tell me they were waiting and I fixed the issue within the hour. Of course the driver does need to call for approval so we know what's going on. If we don't know and it can't be proven, it's very hard to get the customer to pay for the extra time. I do put the time frame the driver has with the trailer on the rate con. If anything changes, I encourage every driver to tell me. When the customer can't get an answer in a timely fashion, they usually aren't willing to NOT cut the rate. I'm not sure what the late fees typically are for freight as I'm only doing power only trailers right now but I've never charged a carrier for being an hour late or even a day late UNLESS the customer charges from day 1. I've definitely never charged a carrier $500 a day or two late. I try to be lenient when possible. When the carriers set up with us, it's in the contract they sign stating our standard pay is net 30. They've agreed to those terms when they set up with us. We do have other payment options that are quicker and I've seen a lot of carriers using factoring companies so they usually get paid pretty quickly. But from my broker's point of view, we can't start those 30 days or release payment until we've received the POD. We have to be able to prove the trailer was delivered, when and in what condition before any payments are made. The customers don't pay us without POD (most of them don't anyway). "

Another thing that gets old is when all these fees are put in the rate con and not in the original carrier broker agreement. I believe that's a bad way to go about it. I believe it all needs to be laid out in the agreement from the get go. If that means updating the agreement a couple times a year then so be it. Can you legally charge fees if not outlined in the original contract? I wonder if that has ever been tried in court? If you know of any cases regarding this please point me in the direction. I would be interested in reading it.

Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 11:16 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "What's your MC number? "

bingo

Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 11:16 AM CST
Originally Posted by: JOSH DRAYFAHL
Quote: "Another thing that gets old is when all these fees are put in the rate con and not in the original carrier broker agreement. I believe that's a bad way to go about it. I believe it all needs to be laid out in the agreement from the get go. If that means updating the agreement a couple times a year then so be it. Can you legally charge fees if not outlined in the original contract? I wonder if that has ever been tried in court? If you know of any cases regarding this please point me in the direction. I would be interested in reading it. "

That's a good question, Josh. Unfortunately I don't have access to our carrier packet, which is done electronically through my home office, to confirm if there is anything about late fees in the carrier agreement. From what I've been told, once the rate con is signed, it becomes a legal document and has weight in court. I repeat, from what I've been told. Now I think part of the problem is carriers not reading through their rate cons before they sign it. There have been a lot of times drivers will deliver late or turn in paperwork late and yell at me about late fees that were clearly written on their paperwork :(

Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 11:16 AM CST
Originally Posted by: JOSH DRAYFAHL
Quote: "Another thing that gets old is when all these fees are put in the rate con and not in the original carrier broker agreement. I believe that's a bad way to go about it. I believe it all needs to be laid out in the agreement from the get go. If that means updating the agreement a couple times a year then so be it. Can you legally charge fees if not outlined in the original contract? I wonder if that has ever been tried in court? If you know of any cases regarding this please point me in the direction. I would be interested in reading it. "

i totally agree, you have to ensure that both you and the carrier are on the same page when it comes to accessorial charges, demurrage, etc. Not a good idea to wait until something goes sideways to find out. a load sheet is not the place to do that.

Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 11:46 AM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "Dave, before I jump to any conclusions I'm going to ask you if you're trying to tell me I don't know what I'm doing? Or are you speaking in general? Because I agree that someone should know what they're doing. I don't think most carriers understand the inner workings of a brokerage, just pass judgement and accuse us of being scammers. It gets frustrating. My point before when I said I know the carrier side of things is because I understand what carriers have to deal with but I'm NOT the same as you, you see and experience way more than I do. I don't drive a truck and I'm not on the road everyday. I was just trying to say I have more perspective than probably most brokers do. "

You clearly don’t understand your audience, you address the carriers in a condescending tone, lecturing the carriers about what a bunch of law breakers they are, basically sounding like your from the propaganda department over at the alliance, then you tell us that your customers set the rates not you, and we Carriers have a obligation to bail out the shippers by working cheap, because you lack the negotiating skills necessary to make this profitable for your clients, the carriers? Yes that tends to send up some red flags, in my opinion.
Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 12:50 PM CST
Originally Posted by: JOSH DRAYFAHL
Quote: "Another thing that gets old is when all these fees are put in the rate con and not in the original carrier broker agreement. I believe that's a bad way to go about it. I believe it all needs to be laid out in the agreement from the get go. If that means updating the agreement a couple times a year then so be it. Can you legally charge fees if not outlined in the original contract? I wonder if that has ever been tried in court? If you know of any cases regarding this please point me in the direction. I would be interested in reading it. "

"Can you legally charge fees if not outlined in the original contract?"

I've never seen a BCA/Agreement that didn't have some sort of clause in it that specifies that rate cons are exensions of the larger BCA/Agreement because of the flexible and continuously changing dynamics of the loads, customer needs and industry in general. So essentially rate cons override the larger BCA unless there's a clause in there stating otherwise.

"2. Broker shall pay Carrier for services rendered in an amount equal to the rates and ancillary charges agreed to on Broker's load confirmation
sheet or other signed writing. Broker will not pay any charge not included on the load confirmation sheet."

Bascially make sure it's in writing...ALWAYS. Even in an email if that's all you have. For the record, never agree to be backcharged for anything from any brokerage..EVER! Carriers are already giving away all their rights (Rules Circular to tarrifs etc) given to them via ICC already; why on earth would they give away even more? Don't even get me started on that whole ball of melted wax!

Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 12:50 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "You clearly don’t understand your audience, you address the carriers in a condescending tone, lecturing the carriers about what a bunch of law breakers they are, basically sounding like your from the propaganda department over at the alliance, then you tell us that your customers set the rates not you, and we Carriers have a obligation to bail out the shippers by working cheap, because you lack the negotiating skills necessary to make this profitable for your clients, the carriers? Yes that tends to send up some red flags, in my opinion."

I think it goes both ways. Carriers don't understand how brokerages are run and make assumptions. I wasn't trying to offend you but I see you took it that way. I was genuinely asking you if you were implying that I didn't know how to do my job, no motive for a fight behind it.

The total rate is usually set by my customers, yes. To operate a brokerage you have to take a certain percentage off to satisfy the brokerage and for it to be profitful, just like any other business. Trucking companies do it too, they pay their drivers $.50/mile or less when the load might pay them $2/mile total. They make their profit minus expenses like all of us.

Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 12:50 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "You clearly don’t understand your audience, you address the carriers in a condescending tone, lecturing the carriers about what a bunch of law breakers they are, basically sounding like your from the propaganda department over at the alliance, then you tell us that your customers set the rates not you, and we Carriers have a obligation to bail out the shippers by working cheap, because you lack the negotiating skills necessary to make this profitable for your clients, the carriers? Yes that tends to send up some red flags, in my opinion."

I never implied the carriers should "bail out the shippers for cheap pay". If you're unhappy with the rates out there, be part of the change you want to see - don't book cheap loads. If the cheap freight doesn't move, the rates will start to rise. But the freight keeps moving for cheap and everyone complains and does nothing about it.

Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 01:41 PM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "I never implied the carriers should "bail out the shippers for cheap pay". If you're unhappy with the rates out there, be part of the change you want to see - don't book cheap loads. If the cheap freight doesn't move, the rates will start to rise. But the freight keeps moving for cheap and everyone complains and does nothing about it. "

Many carriers do understand how brokerages work, since at one time or another they have brokered their own freight out to other companies, in fact many trucking companies run full time brokerages out of the back office, generally they are the good ones, who know what they are doing. Then there are the other one’s, that engage in market manipulation, operating multiple entities out of the same office, they take a [email protected] load, move it across 4 desks, and it becomes a [email protected] load, and the trucker only gets to see the rate that the last desk got paid, UNTIL that terrible crash happens and the lawyers come knocking and the process of discovery happens, and it all comes out in court, what the shipper actually paid.
Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 01:44 PM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "I think it goes both ways. Carriers don't understand how brokerages are run and make assumptions. I wasn't trying to offend you but I see you took it that way. I was genuinely asking you if you were implying that I didn't know how to do my job, no motive for a fight behind it. The total rate is usually set by my customers, yes. To operate a brokerage you have to take a certain percentage off to satisfy the brokerage and for it to be profitful, just like any other business. Trucking companies do it too, they pay their drivers $.50/mile or less when the load might pay them $2/mile total. They make their profit minus expenses like all of us. "

Kim, just for the sake of knowledge so you can see the truck owners side....if a load pays the truck 2 dollars per mile, there isn't enough money left over to pay a driver 50 cents after fuel,maintenance, insurance, loan, depreciation, permits ect
Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 01:53 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "Many carriers do understand how brokerages work, since at one time or another they have brokered their own freight out to other companies, in fact many trucking companies run full time brokerages out of the back office, generally they are the good ones, who know what they are doing. Then there are the other one’s, that engage in market manipulation, operating multiple entities out of the same office, they take a [email protected] load, move it across 4 desks, and it becomes a [email protected] load, and the trucker only gets to see the rate that the last desk got paid, UNTIL that terrible crash happens and the lawyers come knocking and the process of discovery happens, and it all comes out in court, what the shipper actually paid. "

I can honestly say I've never brokered a load for $7/mile. I only do power only, no freight. If carriers understand how brokerages work and broker out their own loads, then they are getting a piece of the pie too. How are they any different from the "big bad broker"? Brokers get slammed way too much and not every broker is a shady scam artist, just like not every carrier is bad. I know a couple of brokers that ripped us off as a carrier and they do and say things I would never and have never done. But I am lumped in with the bad brokers anyway. It wouldn't be right if I thought all carriers were bad.

Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 02:06 PM CST

If your rate is garbage you're not going to get calls that stuff is going to be late, anything under the going rate for a gallon of fuel per mile is a garbage rate.

Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 02:06 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Kim, just for the sake of knowledge so you can see the truck owners side....if a load pays the truck 2 dollars per mile, there isn't enough money left over to pay a driver 50 cents after fuel,maintenance, insurance, loan, depreciation, permits ect"

OK, I'll take your word for it. However most of my customers don't pay more than $2/mile and the trailers still move. Like I said, if the cheaper freight/trailer moves, the rates won't go up.

Replied on Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 02:32 PM CST
Originally Posted by: RYAN LAMFERS
Quote: "If your rate is garbage you're not going to get calls that stuff is going to be late, anything under the going rate for a gallon of fuel per mile is a garbage rate."

I don't understand why you wouldn't call with updates if the rate is low. That is the 2nd time someone has said that on here. You chose to take the load and then you're going to be careless and not give a crap? That mentality just blows my mind!

Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 06:59 AM CST
I have a question for you Kimberly With all my respect What type of load you have , are those loads posted in bulkloads.com? If yes under what broker name please respond here We the carriers want loads with good rates I hope you have some in my area, Florida Thank you
Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 06:59 AM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "I don't understand why you wouldn't call with updates if the rate is low. That is the 2nd time someone has said that on here. You chose to take the load and then you're going to be careless and not give a crap? That mentality just blows my mind!"

The biggest problem out here, is everyone these days wants to start at the top, that applies to brokers and carriers, jumping in with no experience and then blaming everyone else. Not trying to be ass, but if your so unhappy with the service your getting from the carrier’s, why don’t you buy your own trucks and put your own drivers in them Kim? Then you will understand where the problem is.
Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 07:01 AM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "I can honestly say I've never brokered a load for $7/mile. I only do power only, no freight. If carriers understand how brokerages work and broker out their own loads, then they are getting a piece of the pie too. How are they any different from the "big bad broker"? Brokers get slammed way too much and not every broker is a shady scam artist, just like not every carrier is bad. I know a couple of brokers that ripped us off as a carrier and they do and say things I would never and have never done. But I am lumped in with the bad brokers anyway. It wouldn't be right if I thought all carriers were bad. "

So you're saying basically all drop and hook power only? Or maybe putting a load on a new trailer to deliver on the way to deliver trailer? No wonder it's all cheap stuff and the owner/op or drivers you're using are lazy or unwilling to cooperate with you. That freight isn't quite bulk commodity's that have a shorter shelf life.

Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 08:12 AM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "I don't understand why you wouldn't call with updates if the rate is low. That is the 2nd time someone has said that on here. You chose to take the load and then you're going to be careless and not give a crap? That mentality just blows my mind!"

Your mentality of wanting services for free while simultaneously attempting to charge the carrier a fee for not giving you free services is the only thing mind blowing here! This is outrageous. I'm literally flabbergasted at your utter childlike refusal to acknowledge what carriers are telling you as honestly as possible. I'm beginning to think you're about 18-19 years old. Check calls, status/pick/drop updates and the like come in tandem with better rates. They are SERVICES just like the luxury of live tracking via GPS on an ELD or pushing the envelope on the HOS to get the delivery done/closer. They are SERVICES! If you want those types of services then PAY for them. We've already covered this. Why are you in such denial of these facts? You seriously need to start your own transportation company (your own authority not leased on anywhere) to get a full grasp of these concepts. Otherwise you're never going to understand even with so many people giving you great information here on this thread. Also, I'm still waiting for that MC, those drop/pick zips and rates.

Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:25 AM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: MEL B
Quote: "I have a question for you Kimberly With all my respect What type of load you have , are those loads posted in bulkloads.com? If yes under what broker name please respond here We the carriers want loads with good rates I hope you have some in my area, Florida Thank you"

Sorry no, I don't post my loads on here. Please call me at (845) 728-5216 to discuss available trailers and rates

Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:25 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "The biggest problem out here, is everyone these days wants to start at the top, that applies to brokers and carriers, jumping in with no experience and then blaming everyone else. Not trying to be ass, but if your so unhappy with the service your getting from the carrier’s, why don’t you buy your own trucks and put your own drivers in them Kim? Then you will understand where the problem is. "

We do own a trucking company. My husband is the only driver and he is one of my most reliable, communicative and respectful carriers. I know there are plenty of good carriers out there but they are hard to find. Ask any broker what their good vs bad experiences are with carriers.

Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:25 AM CST
Originally Posted by: CHARLIE SIMMONS
Quote: "So you're saying basically all drop and hook power only? Or maybe putting a load on a new trailer to deliver on the way to deliver trailer? No wonder it's all cheap stuff and the owner/op or drivers you're using are lazy or unwilling to cooperate with you. That freight isn't quite bulk commodity's that have a shorter shelf life."

Yes sir, I move empty trailers. No freight as of right now

Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:25 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "Your mentality of wanting services for free while simultaneously attempting to charge the carrier a fee for not giving you free services is the only thing mind blowing here! This is outrageous. I'm literally flabbergasted at your utter childlike refusal to acknowledge what carriers are telling you as honestly as possible. I'm beginning to think you're about 18-19 years old. Check calls, status/pick/drop updates and the like come in tandem with better rates. They are SERVICES just like the luxury of live tracking via GPS on an ELD or pushing the envelope on the HOS to get the delivery done/closer. They are SERVICES! If you want those types of services then PAY for them. We've already covered this. Why are you in such denial of these facts? You seriously need to start your own transportation company (your own authority not leased on anywhere) to get a full grasp of these concepts. Otherwise you're never going to understand even with so many people giving you great information here on this thread. Also, I'm still waiting for that MC, those drop/pick zips and rates."

Still waiting for that phone call you haven't made. I will gladly give you my MC when you call.

And why would you assume we don't have our own authority? You want that MC too? Call me David.

Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:25 AM CST

Here's a prime example of the horrible rates that continue. But the trailers keep moving in spite of this. This was in my email this morning:

Pick up

Woodhaven, Mi

Delivery

Chicago, IL

275 Miles / Paying $500.00

STRAPS WILL BE NEEDED …..

NO TRUCK ORDERED / NOT USED !!!!!!

And this is a DAMAGED TRAILER to boot! It's very hard to get him to go up after I find a carrier that's willing to haul it but is reasonably asking for more money. Almost always get shot down. What am I supposed to do with that? I can't in good conscience take any money off to broker this. I can't post this trailer.

Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 11:37 AM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "Still waiting for that phone call you haven't made. I will gladly give you my MC when you call. And why would you assume we don't have our own authority? You want that MC too? Call me David. "

Kim, david isnt going to call you because he wont believe your answer anyway, because according to safer, you don't have authority. Unless there's a mistake
Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 11:37 AM CST
+ 1
This is a bulkload board, for commodities like grain and fertilizer, folks are here to keep their own wagons moving, not someone else’s. Perhaps you should direct your needs to a more appropriate website, that will reach the power only community?
Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 11:51 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Kim, david isnt going to call you because he wont believe your answer anyway, because according to safer, you don't have authority. Unless there's a mistake "

What criteria does anyone have to go on to look me up on Safer without an MC? The company name isn't Kimberly Gray. That sounds silly.

Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 11:51 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "This is a bulkload board, for commodities like grain and fertilizer, folks are here to keep their own wagons moving, not someone else’s. Perhaps you should direct your needs to a more appropriate website, that will reach the power only community?"

Perhaps. The post started out on late fees and spiraled from there.

Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 12:58 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Kim, david isnt going to call you because he wont believe your answer anyway, because according to safer, you don't have authority. Unless there's a mistake "

The phone number she provided is linked to a company called FREIGHT TEC MANAGEMENT, Dot# 179548. So the question that comes to mind is why would someone try to conceal their identity, by refusing to put their MC out there, when asked openly? Is there something to hide?
Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 12:58 PM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "What criteria does anyone have to go on to look me up on Safer without an MC? The company name isn't Kimberly Gray. That sounds silly. "

Why are you trying to conceal your company name? And why don’t you just put your MC# out there on the forum when asked for, like your opinion? A legitimate company doesn’t operate that way.
Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 03:39 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Kim, david isnt going to call you because he wont believe your answer anyway, because according to safer, you don't have authority. Unless there's a mistake "

Bingo! I was going to call to get the MC and do a background accordingly but looks like Dave already did some for me!

Freight Tec MC#147619

Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 03:40 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "The phone number she provided is linked to a company called FREIGHT TEC MANAGEMENT, Dot# 179548. So the question that comes to mind is why would someone try to conceal their identity, by refusing to put their MC out there, when asked openly? Is there something to hide?"

Because she already knows her brokerage is of the bottom feeding variety with a poor reputation. One that's well known for short paying AND slow paying carrier invoices. With 42 DTP and tons of other carriers leaving reviews complaining of being ripped off this is par for the course IMO.

Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 04:08 PM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "What criteria does anyone have to go on to look me up on Safer without an MC? The company name isn't Kimberly Gray. That sounds silly. "

Correct. It's Kimberly Pacenza with Freight Tec. This is actually kind of ironic running into a Freight Tec office here because they were actually the reason I had to start a "Do Not Haul" list. To this day they are still number one. Right on top they sit! Right after the ELD mandate went into effect the rates on the spot market went though the roof. I call it the, "Gold Rush"! During the Gold Rush everybody was paying and paying well! No need for haggling. Name my rate and off I went diligently. The market was in the carrier's favor heavily. It was glorious!

However, Freight Tec still was trying to push rates from the previous year the entire time. They were rude. They would call me and I'd have to hang up on them. It all started when they had the audacity to belittle me on my rates. See, I have a daily minimum. It's $550 for anything under 50 miles. They didn't like that. I had to routinely put them in their place. It go so bad I had to block their numbers. I'm a firm believer that they saw my MC was young and wrongly assumed I was new to the industry. So they attempted to capitalize on this. Hoping to take advantage of a new carrier not yet on his game. Let him make his mistakes with while they would be profitting from them. Tell the shipper the truck was $4/mile while getting e to move it for $1.50 no doubt. They were incorrect. I was well aware of their antics and I was very much in tune with the current rates on my lanes.

Freight Tec is known for ripping off carriers through cleverly crafted BCAs and a slew of small fees designed to chip away at the rate incrementally. Exactly what I had previously mentioned to you. You (Freight Tec) ignorantly attempts to force the carrier into paying for his own services. It's a nice little racket to get paid for free services. Sort of like how the cable companies make millions getting paid monthly from their subcribers yet also getting paid from companies running ads/conmercials. OTA TV is free because the commericals pay for the broadcasting. Would you pay for OTA TV? Cable is no different. But millios do just to watch commericals anyway. Just like it's no different to expect a carwash to wash your car and then pay YOU because they didn't vacuum the interior long enough.

Freight Tec's reviews on DAT are bad. Like 2 out of 5 bad. All of them complain about not getting paid for services rendered, poor communication and slow pay. Freight Tec currently is running at 42 DTP. That's unacceptable. The carrier is giving you a free loan and Freight Tec doesn't even pay within the contracted NET30 terms. I don't care when or if your customer ever pays you. I'm contracted with you, the broker not them. It's Freight Tec's job to pay the carrier on or before the contract terms. Period. They obviously focus on the reverse of that. They work with the mindset of taking as much as they can instead of giving. Meanwhile, you have the audacity to come here and complain! Just when I think I've seen it all...someone like you pops up. While playing role reveral games and crying like you're somehow the victim. Wow. Just wow.

I've attached some screenshots for your perusal if you'd like to see more. I have a feeling you already know all this though.

Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 04:48 PM CST
There is no need for us to be rude to her, she never called us any names, therefore I don’t think we should call her any names either, lets keep this on a professional level and just focus on the facts. I know that’s hard to do sometimes, but let’s be dignified about this, and respectful, she is trying to put food on the table for her family, and trying to please her boss. She is performing for the master, same as us David.
Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 04:48 PM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "Here's a prime example of the horrible rates that continue. But the trailers keep moving in spite of this. This was in my email this morning: Pick up Woodhaven, Mi Delivery Chicago, IL 275 Miles / Paying $500.00 STRAPS WILL BE NEEDED ….. NO TRUCK ORDERED / NOT USED !!!!!! And this is a DAMAGED TRAILER to boot! It's very hard to get him to go up after I find a carrier that's willing to haul it but is reasonably asking for more money. Almost always get shot down. What am I supposed to do with that? I can't in good conscience take any money off to broker this. I can't post this trailer."

That's horrible indeed. Now that we've established this is via Freight Tec it's exactly what I would expect to see from them. I'd be charging double that at least. Not to mention there's $100 in tolls in each direction as well.

What are you supposed to do with that? Tell him there's nobody there to move it when he starts crying about his yard overflowing with trailers. He'll eventually raise the rate when he needs to move it. The longer it sits, the higher the rate will climb. Also the percentage you take makes a difference too. Cheap freight requires less of a percentage. There just isn't enough meat on the bone to take.

Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 04:56 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "There is no need for us to be rude to her, she never called us any names, therefore I don’t think we should call her any names either, lets keep this on a professional level and just focus on the facts. I know that’s hard to do sometimes, but let’s be dignified about this, and respectful, she is trying to put food on the table for her family, and trying to please her boss. She is performing for the master, same as us David."

She should move over to a decent brokerage then because Freight Tec is absolute scum. If she's truly guilty by associatiin then she should rethink her associations and part ways. Am I suppose to pardon someone who's trying to feed their family while taking from mine? No, sir. We're not living in a third world country (not yet at least) that requires stealing from each other to survive. She and anyone like her are quite capable of doing the right thing. Also, I know I'm frank and curt but I don't see where I called her any names.

Replied on Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:57 PM CST

I very much appreciate your last comment, Dave Winters. I feel like I've been verbally attacked on here enough. I asked David Krouse to call me not to continue a fight on the phone but in the hopes to speak to each other with some respect and I would have given you both the MCs I work with. Throwing it on here isn't the place as David Krouse's recent comments attest. Everyone has bad and good experiences with various brokers and same goes for me with carriers and other brokers. Freight Tec is honestly the best brokerage I've ever worked with, they treat me with respect and are very communicative, unlike other brokerages I've worked with.

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 05:43 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "Because she already knows her brokerage is of the bottom feeding variety with a poor reputation. One that's well known for short paying AND slow paying carrier invoices. With 42 DTP and tons of other carriers leaving reviews complaining of being ripped off this is par for the course IMO. "

I noticed you only put the negative reviews on here. Freight Tec has 4.3 out of 5 stars on Google and none of the negative comments I've seen are about my office. We all work in different offices so it seems unfair that you'd assume everyone at Freight Tec is bad.

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 07:46 AM CST
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd assume the DAT reviews are trucking companies. The Google reviews are the shippers. So those 4.3 stars dont give you much street cred with the drivers at the moment
Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 07:47 AM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "I noticed you only put the negative reviews on here. Freight Tec has 4.3 out of 5 stars on Google and none of the negative comments I've seen are about my office. We all work in different offices so it seems unfair that you'd assume everyone at Freight Tec is bad. "

Anyone, including anonymous people can post reviews on Google. Literally anyone can post anything there with absolutley no checks in place for padding the reviews in favor (or against) of the business. The fakes reviews are out of hand. They're actually rendering them useless. I stopped using them quite a while ago. Competitors attacking each other using them has been a big deal. Google is not used in the industry.

DAT however, is NOT. DAT is vetted 100 percent with MC numbers. DAT is the real deal that can be trusted and verified. Google cannot say the same. Anyone that uses DAT or ITS can see for themselves.

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 09:53 AM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "That's a good question, Josh. Unfortunately I don't have access to our carrier packet, which is done electronically through my home office, to confirm if there is anything about late fees in the carrier agreement. From what I've been told, once the rate con is signed, it becomes a legal document and has weight in court. I repeat, from what I've been told. Now I think part of the problem is carriers not reading through their rate cons before they sign it. There have been a lot of times drivers will deliver late or turn in paperwork late and yell at me about late fees that were clearly written on their paperwork :( "

How many pages is your contract. Is it in terms anyone can understand or some lawyer who says something in one sentence then on the third page redacted it.

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 09:53 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd assume the DAT reviews are trucking companies. The Google reviews are the shippers. So those 4.3 stars dont give you much street cred with the drivers at the moment "

Actually it's a lot of carriers that left both positive and negative reviews. You can check Google if you don't believe me.

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 10:06 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "That's horrible indeed. Now that we've established this is via Freight Tec it's exactly what I would expect to see from them. I'd be charging double that at least. Not to mention there's $100 in tolls in each direction as well. What are you supposed to do with that? Tell him there's nobody there to move it when he starts crying about his yard overflowing with trailers. He'll eventually raise the rate when he needs to move it. The longer it sits, the higher the rate will climb. Also the percentage you take makes a difference too. Cheap freight requires less of a percentage. There just isn't enough meat on the bone to take. "

Freight Tec didn't set the rate on this, the customer did. That email I received was from the customer.

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 10:06 AM CST
Originally Posted by: GREG BOMMELMAN
Quote: "How many pages is your contract. Is it in terms anyone can understand or some lawyer who says something in one sentence then on the third page redacted it. "

Honestly I don't have access to our carrier agreement, it's all done electronically and goes directly from the carrier to my home office. I'm not sure what exactly is written in our contract or how it's written.

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 10:18 AM CST

This is the review from my office on DAT. It's the only one on there right now but I just wanted to show you my office doesn't have any negative reviews. Not all of us brokers are bad news.

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 10:28 AM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "Freight Tec didn't set the rate on this, the customer did. That email I received was from the customer. "

Gotcha. Are you saying that was BEFORE the brokerage takes their percentage? Anyway, Freight Tec can tell the customer it's too low when they complain about the crappy service they get. I consider both parties to share the responsibility equally. The shipper and the broker are asking for entirely too much yet bring nothing to the table.

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 10:40 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "Gotcha. Are you saying that was BEFORE the brokerage takes their percentage? Anyway, Freight Tec can tell the customer it's too low when they complain about the crappy service they get. I consider both parties to share the responsibility equally. The shipper and the broker are asking for entirely too much yet bring nothing to the table. "

Yes, that's BEFORE any kind of broker fee is deducted. Sometimes this particular customer will raise the rate but usually no more than $200 which is still crap. These loads, at least for me, I take off a very minimal fee but it doesn't really profit my office so it's a tough situation. The carrier should ALWAYS get most of the rate because they do all the work.

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 11:10 AM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "Yes, that's BEFORE any kind of broker fee is deducted. Sometimes this particular customer will raise the rate but usually no more than $200 which is still crap. These loads, at least for me, I take off a very minimal fee but it doesn't really profit my office so it's a tough situation. The carrier should ALWAYS get most of the rate because they do all the work. "

Wow. I'm surprised you anything moved for that customer at all. Curious. How many repeat carriers do you have to handle these loads? Do you have any "go to" trucks for this customer to call when he needs his trash moved?

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 11:19 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "She should move over to a decent brokerage then because Freight Tec is absolute scum. If she's truly guilty by associatiin then she should rethink her associations and part ways. Am I suppose to pardon someone who's trying to feed their family while taking from mine? No, sir. We're not living in a third world country (not yet at least) that requires stealing from each other to survive. She and anyone like her are quite capable of doing the right thing. Also, I know I'm frank and curt but I don't see where I called her any names."

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 11:19 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "Wow. I'm surprised you anything moved for that customer at all. Curious. How many repeat carriers do you have to handle these loads? Do you have any "go to" trucks for this customer to call when he needs his trash moved?"

I don't book much with them and I've only had one repeat carrier but we had to really convince the customer to pay at least $2/mile (power only pays less than freight) and really it should pay more than $2 because the driver has to strap the trailer (almost every one of his trailers are salvage trailers coming from auctions)

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:04 PM CST
Originally Posted by: NANCY HARDER
Quote: "https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Freight-Tec/reviews "

Again, I only trust reviews done via DAT and ITS because they have been prescreened AND I can contact whomever left those reviews directly if I need more information because I have their MC numbers in front of me. I cuts done on the fraud substantially. All other non-vetted sources are not trustworthy at all.

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:04 PM CST
Originally Posted by: NANCY HARDER
Quote: "https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Freight-Tec/reviews "

I had to look anyway. Looks close to the DAT ones don't they? Thanks for sharing.

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:04 PM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "I don't book much with them and I've only had one repeat carrier but we had to really convince the customer to pay at least $2/mile (power only pays less than freight) and really it should pay more than $2 because the driver has to strap the trailer (almost every one of his trailers are salvage trailers coming from auctions)"

Understood. Thanks for sharing.

Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 01:30 PM CST
For me it’s all about the numbers, either they work or they don’t, I have no problem leaving a customer when the math don’t work anymore, I’ve been doing it my whole life, wich is why I am still in business today. Several people I know personally, have spent the last decade expanding their fleet, thinking they could make these rates work, and everyone of them have been dropped by their insurance company, and are now loosing money and running in the red, because their insurance is more than the payments on their equipment, most are medications to cope, and have suicidal thoughts daily. All of the drivers who are a natural fit for the job, have been chased off by government regulations, so to find a good driver is difficult at best, expect to pay 100k a year or more for a quality candidate. Personally I would need to see 3.50 a mile, for every mile on the truck, before I would consider adding trucks to my operation, as I am unwilling to hire steering wheel holders, and cut corners.
Replied on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 04:08 PM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVID KROUSE
Quote: "She should move over to a decent brokerage then because Freight Tec is absolute scum. If she's truly guilty by associatiin then she should rethink her associations and part ways. Am I suppose to pardon someone who's trying to feed their family while taking from mine? No, sir. We're not living in a third world country (not yet at least) that requires stealing from each other to survive. She and anyone like her are quite capable of doing the right thing. Also, I know I'm frank and curt but I don't see where I called her any names."

If we are not a third world country, why are we letting Iran get away with what they just did? That happened at Pearl Harbor once, and how did our grand parents didn’t give anyone a pass. Could it be because all our factories are in China now, and we really are a third world country?
Replied on Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 08:24 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DAVE WINTERS
Quote: "If we are not a third world country, why are we letting Iran get away with what they just did? That happened at Pearl Harbor once, and how did our grand parents didn’t give anyone a pass. Could it be because all our factories are in China now, and we really are a third world country?"

The writing is certainly on the wall. I agree. However, Iran is none of my business. My business is here in our land. We've been meddling in the Middle East for over 40 years. For over two decades there's ALWAYS a new excuse to bring strife, war, pain, death and misery to our cousins door steps. It's unnacceptable. It's far time we focus on our own country that's getting taken over by illegal invaders. DISCLAIMER: I have no problem with CONTROLLED LEGAL immigration but we already have enough criminals here we don't need more. Do it the right way or don't do it at all. What happened to, "America First"? Trump was supposed to be bringing all the troops home and fixing our very broken once great nation. Don't get me started. I don't think we should turn this thread into political one.

Replied on Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 10:56 AM CST
What does a third world country look like? People who can’t afford health care? Farmers who can’t make a living producing the food that feeds everyone? Ever increasing homeless camps poping up everywhere? Trucking companies closing the doors because they can’t make enough to cover costs? Money that’s worthless in a bank, and produces no interest? Communities laying police officers off, because they can’t afford to pay them? A government that can no longer defend its military bases, for fear of loosing the foreign markets it’s economy have become dependent on? The world is governed by the use of force, there is nothing political about it, the law of the jungle has existed since the dawn of time.
Replied on Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 06:55 AM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "I think it goes both ways. Carriers don't understand how brokerages are run and make assumptions. I wasn't trying to offend you but I see you took it that way. I was genuinely asking you if you were implying that I didn't know how to do my job, no motive for a fight behind it. The total rate is usually set by my customers, yes. To operate a brokerage you have to take a certain percentage off to satisfy the brokerage and for it to be profitful, just like any other business. Trucking companies do it too, they pay their drivers $.50/mile or less when the load might pay them $2/mile total. They make their profit minus expenses like all of us. "

I take it your not in the bulk business? By your numbers that's 25%. 25% of the truck gross is considered the normal driver's wage in the bulk business. Add in taxes and work comp, fuel, insurance, a maintenance budget, truck payment, and a few other cost and the huge profit margin that your so sure the carrier makes has vaporized into a very slim profit margin.
Replied on Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 07:35 PM CST
Originally Posted by: KIMBERLY GRAY
Quote: "Did you get it all out of your system now? I'm not adding fuel to this fire any longer. You all just prove my point that most of you can't have a discussion about this without attacking me. I was hoping (silly me!) that I could get feedback from carriers and brokers alike in a respectful manner, not tearing each other down. The people in this industry are a joke"

Opened your mouth and removed all dout